F-35s jets and S-400 missiles

[Silver Cat]

Now unless you can jam the JDAMs internal guidance, it's going where it was aimed after release. One Fighter can drop multiple JDAMS to multiple targets in a matter of seconds.

Sure. But the fighter must know where are these targets, and the GPS-signal can be jammed. The 30m miss is unacceptable for some kinds of targets, you know.

Boeing JDAM

"Using full GPS-aided INS guidance, the accuracy of JDAM is officially quoted as 13 m (43 ft), but real figures are reportedly slightly better, around 10 m (33 ft). When GPS is unavailable (e.g. because of jamming), accuracy in INS-only mode drops to 30 m (100 ft) CEP, but that's still good enough for many purposes, and therefore GPS-jamming is far from disabling JDAM bombs."

And don't forget, that "Thor" and "Tunguska" can shoot bombs.

Now, let's allow you to have your lone S-400 and I get my Lone F-35A.

"The Last Bullet Fight" scenario? It usually looks much better on a movie screen than on a battlefield. But as you wish.
"After a week of the fierce battle all British jets were shoot down, and only one Norwegian F-35A with two JDAMs is still active at RAF Marham.
The little green men lost all their AAA, L-band radar, passive sensors, wasted almost all missiles. But: they still have their main radar, one missile, observers with IR-seekers (their own and in FSA), some fake missile launchers and 3 roughly masked fake radars (with emmiters). FSA have a few agents in your army, mostly friendly population in Scotland, support of the EU and enough of Mistral-M3 MANPADS.

No nukes allowed.

Nukes are allowed in the most of my scenarios, but right now, well, a nuclear submarine with ICBMs is just a super-important target (another one was successfully destroyed in the previous suicidal attack). If you fail to destroy it - Free Scotland Army (with French support) will win the war. And you don't know her exact position in the harbour, because it was moved after your previous attack.

You can have the highest quality crew manning your S-400 system but even they can't make it any better than it already is. Your Scenario is busted.

Really? You have one F-35A with two JDAMs, one super-important target, three fake SAM radars, one real (you will know who is who only after one of them lock you at the distance 35-50 clicks), the battlefield is covered by smoke and aerosol veil and you can't use low-attitude attack because of MANPADS.

It will be anything but a piece of cake.
How it was in that old DPRK comedy?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Now unless you can jam the JDAMs internal guidance, it's going where it was aimed after release. One Fighter can drop multiple JDAMS to multiple targets in a matter of seconds.

Sure. But the fighter must know where are these targets, and GPS-signals can be jammed. For some targets 30m miss is unacceptable.

Boeing JDAM

"Using full GPS-aided INS guidance, the accuracy of JDAM is officially quoted as 13 m (43 ft), but real figures are reportedly slightly better, around 10 m (33 ft). When GPS is unavailable (e.g. because of jamming), accuracy in INS-only mode drops to 30 m (100 ft) CEP, but that's still good enough for many purposes, and therefore GPS-jamming is far from disabling JDAM bombs."

And don't forget, that "Thor" and "Tunguska" can shoot bombs.

Now, let's allow you to have your lone S-400 and I get my Lone F-35A.

"The Last Bullet Fight" scenario? It usually looks much better on a movie screen than on a battlefield. But as you wish. After a week of the fierce battle all British jets were shoot down, and only one Norwegian F-35A with two JDAMs is still active at RAF Marham.
The little green men lost all their AAA, L-band radar, passive sensors, wasted almost all missiles. But: they still have their main radar, one missile, observers with IR-seekers (their own and in FSA), some fake missile launchers and 3 roughly masked fake radars (with emmiters). FSA have few agents in your army, mostly friendly population in Scotland, support of the EU and enough of Mistral-M3 MANPADS.

No nukes allowed.

Nukes are allowed in the most of my scenarios, but right now, well, a nuclear submarine with ICBMs is just a super-important target (another one was successfully destroyed in previose suicidal attacks). If you fail to destroy it - Free Scotland Army (with French support) will win the war. And you don't know her exact position in the harbour, because it was moved after your previous attack.

You can have the highest quality crew manning your S-400 system but even they can't make it any better than it already is. Your Scenario is busted.

Really? You have one F-35A with two JDAMs, one super-important target, three fake SAM radars, one real (you will know who is who only after one of them lock you at the distance 35-50 clicks), battlefield is covered by smoke and aerosol veil and you can't use low-attitude attack because of MANPADS.

It will be anything but a piece of cake.
How it was in that old DPRK comedy?

The F-35A won't use low altitude. He's going to be at somewhere between 20 and 40K in altitude flying as level as possible using his stealth. In a best case scenario, you might be able to scan him at 35K and lock on closer than that. Using a Bomb Toss, he can get 50 to 75K distance out of his JDAM Mk82. And while you are trying your damnedest to jam him, he is doing the same to you. And he's very, very good at that. Even if you jammed the GPS, it still won't change the fact that the JDAM used it to only get the initial location. Your site is not mobile. And he's after your Radar Domes and Antennaes. 30 meters is close enough. He doesn't have to destroy it but send enough shrapnel through it to take it off line. What you should be worried about right after that is the 4th gen fighters coming in to finish the job completely uncontested.

 

[DrainBamage]

Orly? If so - tell us about how exactly UAI see Mk83, and what is the difference with a damaged GBU-16 or 32?

Hah after that utter fail on the JDAM islands bombing where you assumed they were unguided bombs, you're still in here hammering away on UAI and pretending you know something about it.

I love it.

 

[DrainBamage]

"Using full GPS-aided INS guidance, the accuracy of JDAM is officially quoted as 13 m (43 ft), but real figures are reportedly slightly better, around 10 m (33 ft). When GPS is unavailable (e.g. because of jamming), accuracy in INS-only mode drops to 30 m (100 ft) CEP, but that's still good enough for many purposes, and therefore GPS-jamming is far from disabling JDAM bombs."

Good way to die when SEAD/DEAD is happening is to have something broadcasting a constant signal like an area-wide GPS jam.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

"Using full GPS-aided INS guidance, the accuracy of JDAM is officially quoted as 13 m (43 ft), but real figures are reportedly slightly better, around 10 m (33 ft). When GPS is unavailable (e.g. because of jamming), accuracy in INS-only mode drops to 30 m (100 ft) CEP, but that's still good enough for many purposes, and therefore GPS-jamming is far from disabling JDAM bombs."

Good way to die when SEAD/DEAD is happening is to have something broadcasting a constant signal like an area-wide GPS jam.

A Million and ONE ways to die in combat.

 

[Silver Cat]

Orly? If so - tell us about how exactly UAI see Mk83, and what is the difference with a damaged GBU-16 or 32?

Hah after that utter fail on the JDAM islands bombing where you assumed they were unguided bombs, you're still in here hammering away on UAI and pretending you know something about it.

I love it.

Well. May be you are right, and we should add some info in the discussion:

 

[Silver Cat]

Now unless you can jam the JDAMs internal guidance, it's going where it was aimed after release. One Fighter can drop multiple JDAMS to multiple targets in a matter of seconds.

Sure. But the fighter must know where are these targets, and GPS-signals can be jammed. For some targets 30m miss is unacceptable.

Boeing JDAM

"Using full GPS-aided INS guidance, the accuracy of JDAM is officially quoted as 13 m (43 ft), but real figures are reportedly slightly better, around 10 m (33 ft). When GPS is unavailable (e.g. because of jamming), accuracy in INS-only mode drops to 30 m (100 ft) CEP, but that's still good enough for many purposes, and therefore GPS-jamming is far from disabling JDAM bombs."

And don't forget, that "Thor" and "Tunguska" can shoot bombs.

Now, let's allow you to have your lone S-400 and I get my Lone F-35A.

"The Last Bullet Fight" scenario? It usually looks much better on a movie screen than on a battlefield. But as you wish. After a week of the fierce battle all British jets were shoot down, and only one Norwegian F-35A with two JDAMs is still active at RAF Marham.
The little green men lost all their AAA, L-band radar, passive sensors, wasted almost all missiles. But: they still have their main radar, one missile, observers with IR-seekers (their own and in FSA), some fake missile launchers and 3 roughly masked fake radars (with emmiters). FSA have few agents in your army, mostly friendly population in Scotland, support of the EU and enough of Mistral-M3 MANPADS.

No nukes allowed.

Nukes are allowed in the most of my scenarios, but right now, well, a nuclear submarine with ICBMs is just a super-important target (another one was successfully destroyed in previose suicidal attacks). If you fail to destroy it - Free Scotland Army (with French support) will win the war. And you don't know her exact position in the harbour, because it was moved after your previous attack.

You can have the highest quality crew manning your S-400 system but even they can't make it any better than it already is. Your Scenario is busted.

Really? You have one F-35A with two JDAMs, one super-important target, three fake SAM radars, one real (you will know who is who only after one of them lock you at the distance 35-50 clicks), battlefield is covered by smoke and aerosol veil and you can't use low-attitude attack because of MANPADS.

It will be anything but a piece of cake.
How it was in that old DPRK comedy?

The F-35A won't use low altitude. He's going to be at somewhere between 20 and 40K in altitude flying as level as possible using his stealth. In a best case scenario, you might be able to scan him at 35K and lock on closer than that. Using a Bomb Toss, he can get 50 to 75K distance out of his JDAM Mk82. And while you are trying your damnedest to jam him, he is doing the same to you. And he's very, very good at that. Even if you jammed the GPS, it still won't change the fact that the JDAM used it to only get the initial location. Your site is not mobile. And he's after your Radar Domes and Antennaes. 30 meters is close enough. He doesn't have to destroy it but send enough shrapnel through it to take it off line. What you should be worried about right after that is the 4th gen fighters coming in to finish the job completely uncontested.

Are you sure?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Now unless you can jam the JDAMs internal guidance, it's going where it was aimed after release. One Fighter can drop multiple JDAMS to multiple targets in a matter of seconds.

Sure. But the fighter must know where are these targets, and GPS-signals can be jammed. For some targets 30m miss is unacceptable.

Boeing JDAM

"Using full GPS-aided INS guidance, the accuracy of JDAM is officially quoted as 13 m (43 ft), but real figures are reportedly slightly better, around 10 m (33 ft). When GPS is unavailable (e.g. because of jamming), accuracy in INS-only mode drops to 30 m (100 ft) CEP, but that's still good enough for many purposes, and therefore GPS-jamming is far from disabling JDAM bombs."

And don't forget, that "Thor" and "Tunguska" can shoot bombs.

Now, let's allow you to have your lone S-400 and I get my Lone F-35A.

"The Last Bullet Fight" scenario? It usually looks much better on a movie screen than on a battlefield. But as you wish. After a week of the fierce battle all British jets were shoot down, and only one Norwegian F-35A with two JDAMs is still active at RAF Marham.
The little green men lost all their AAA, L-band radar, passive sensors, wasted almost all missiles. But: they still have their main radar, one missile, observers with IR-seekers (their own and in FSA), some fake missile launchers and 3 roughly masked fake radars (with emmiters). FSA have few agents in your army, mostly friendly population in Scotland, support of the EU and enough of Mistral-M3 MANPADS.

No nukes allowed.

Nukes are allowed in the most of my scenarios, but right now, well, a nuclear submarine with ICBMs is just a super-important target (another one was successfully destroyed in previose suicidal attacks). If you fail to destroy it - Free Scotland Army (with French support) will win the war. And you don't know her exact position in the harbour, because it was moved after your previous attack.

You can have the highest quality crew manning your S-400 system but even they can't make it any better than it already is. Your Scenario is busted.

Really? You have one F-35A with two JDAMs, one super-important target, three fake SAM radars, one real (you will know who is who only after one of them lock you at the distance 35-50 clicks), battlefield is covered by smoke and aerosol veil and you can't use low-attitude attack because of MANPADS.

It will be anything but a piece of cake.
How it was in that old DPRK comedy?

The F-35A won't use low altitude. He's going to be at somewhere between 20 and 40K in altitude flying as level as possible using his stealth. In a best case scenario, you might be able to scan him at 35K and lock on closer than that. Using a Bomb Toss, he can get 50 to 75K distance out of his JDAM Mk82. And while you are trying your damnedest to jam him, he is doing the same to you. And he's very, very good at that. Even if you jammed the GPS, it still won't change the fact that the JDAM used it to only get the initial location. Your site is not mobile. And he's after your Radar Domes and Antennaes. 30 meters is close enough. He doesn't have to destroy it but send enough shrapnel through it to take it off line. What you should be worried about right after that is the 4th gen fighters coming in to finish the job completely uncontested.

Are you sure?
View attachment 307602
View attachment 307604

View attachment 307606

View attachment 307605

Only an idiot will sit there and broadcast your GPS jammer. That makes you a sitting duck for a AGM-88C. Do you know the range of one of those puppies? 150K or 92 miles. And it's coming in at over 1400 mph. And guess what the F-35A can carry? You changed to rules to suit yourself. So I get one Harm and you just lost your radar site.

 

[Silver Cat]

You see, the main problem for using INS-only "guidance" is time. All those JDAMs, SDBs, Paveway IV and other garbage use relatively cheap fibre-optic gyroscopes, same as were used in the early versions of F-15E. Its mistake is a bit more than 1 mile/hour.
If you toss your bomb or ersats-CM at 60 km, with initial speed 1000 km/h, its average horizontal speed will be not more than 600 km/h, and TOF - 0,1 h (six minutes), and the CEP - 0,1 mi.
It means, that such things are almost useless in GPS-denied environments (including situation of the global war).

 

[Daryl Hunt]

You see, main problem for using INS-only "guidance" is time. All those JDAMs, SDBs, Paveway IV and other garbage use relatively cheap fibre-optic gyroscopes, same as were used in the early versions of F-15E. Its mistake is a bit more than 1 mile/hour.
If you toss your bomb or ersats-CM at 60 km, with initial speed 1000 km/h, its average horizontal speed will be not more than 600 km/h, and TOF - 0,1 h (six minutes), and the CEP - 0,1 mi.
It means, that such things are almost useless in GPS-denied environments (including situation of the global war).

If you are talking about a F-35A, he has so many tricks up his sleave that your Radar Site isn't going to make it. That's exactly what he's designed to take out. Just because he can do other things doesn't take away his primary mission is to take out radar sites. He can sneak up on it, jam it, blind it, burn it out and a lot more. And remember, there are a whole series of factors that any radar site or even an IR site has to comply with to get a missile kill and all the F-35 has to do is to break just one of that cycle and the Missile cannot hit it's target. Meanwhile, he just has to get close enough to drop his SBD which is going to temporarily put your radar or IR site out of action long enough to give the 4th Gen fighters the corridor they need to take out everything else. The real damage isn't going to be done by the F-35. He's just going to enable all the 3rd and 4th gen fighters and bombers the ability to rain heaven and earth on you by opening up an open corridor.

 

[Silver Cat]

Now unless you can jam the JDAMs internal guidance, it's going where it was aimed after release. One Fighter can drop multiple JDAMS to multiple targets in a matter of seconds.

Sure. But the fighter must know where are these targets, and GPS-signals can be jammed. For some targets 30m miss is unacceptable.

Boeing JDAM

"Using full GPS-aided INS guidance, the accuracy of JDAM is officially quoted as 13 m (43 ft), but real figures are reportedly slightly better, around 10 m (33 ft). When GPS is unavailable (e.g. because of jamming), accuracy in INS-only mode drops to 30 m (100 ft) CEP, but that's still good enough for many purposes, and therefore GPS-jamming is far from disabling JDAM bombs."

And don't forget, that "Thor" and "Tunguska" can shoot bombs.

Now, let's allow you to have your lone S-400 and I get my Lone F-35A.

"The Last Bullet Fight" scenario? It usually looks much better on a movie screen than on a battlefield. But as you wish. After a week of the fierce battle all British jets were shoot down, and only one Norwegian F-35A with two JDAMs is still active at RAF Marham.
The little green men lost all their AAA, L-band radar, passive sensors, wasted almost all missiles. But: they still have their main radar, one missile, observers with IR-seekers (their own and in FSA), some fake missile launchers and 3 roughly masked fake radars (with emmiters). FSA have few agents in your army, mostly friendly population in Scotland, support of the EU and enough of Mistral-M3 MANPADS.

No nukes allowed.

Nukes are allowed in the most of my scenarios, but right now, well, a nuclear submarine with ICBMs is just a super-important target (another one was successfully destroyed in previose suicidal attacks). If you fail to destroy it - Free Scotland Army (with French support) will win the war. And you don't know her exact position in the harbour, because it was moved after your previous attack.

You can have the highest quality crew manning your S-400 system but even they can't make it any better than it already is. Your Scenario is busted.

Really? You have one F-35A with two JDAMs, one super-important target, three fake SAM radars, one real (you will know who is who only after one of them lock you at the distance 35-50 clicks), battlefield is covered by smoke and aerosol veil and you can't use low-attitude attack because of MANPADS.

It will be anything but a piece of cake.
How it was in that old DPRK comedy?

The F-35A won't use low altitude. He's going to be at somewhere between 20 and 40K in altitude flying as level as possible using his stealth. In a best case scenario, you might be able to scan him at 35K and lock on closer than that. Using a Bomb Toss, he can get 50 to 75K distance out of his JDAM Mk82. And while you are trying your damnedest to jam him, he is doing the same to you. And he's very, very good at that. Even if you jammed the GPS, it still won't change the fact that the JDAM used it to only get the initial location. Your site is not mobile. And he's after your Radar Domes and Antennaes. 30 meters is close enough. He doesn't have to destroy it but send enough shrapnel through it to take it off line. What you should be worried about right after that is the 4th gen fighters coming in to finish the job completely uncontested.

Are you sure?
View attachment 307602
View attachment 307604

View attachment 307606

View attachment 307605

Only an idiot will sit there and broadcast your GPS jammer. That makes you a sitting duck for a AGM-88C. Do you know the range of one of those puppies? 150K or 92 miles. And it's coming in at over 1400 mph. And guess what the F-35A can carry? You changed to rules to suit yourself. So I get one Harm and you just lost your radar site.

First (and most important) neither the UK, nor Norway have AARGM.
Second (if we restart the game "F-35 squadron vs S-400 battalion" from the very beginning) - Tunguskas will shoot down your AARGM easily.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Now unless you can jam the JDAMs internal guidance, it's going where it was aimed after release. One Fighter can drop multiple JDAMS to multiple targets in a matter of seconds.

Sure. But the fighter must know where are these targets, and GPS-signals can be jammed. For some targets 30m miss is unacceptable.

Boeing JDAM

"Using full GPS-aided INS guidance, the accuracy of JDAM is officially quoted as 13 m (43 ft), but real figures are reportedly slightly better, around 10 m (33 ft). When GPS is unavailable (e.g. because of jamming), accuracy in INS-only mode drops to 30 m (100 ft) CEP, but that's still good enough for many purposes, and therefore GPS-jamming is far from disabling JDAM bombs."

And don't forget, that "Thor" and "Tunguska" can shoot bombs.

Now, let's allow you to have your lone S-400 and I get my Lone F-35A.

"The Last Bullet Fight" scenario? It usually looks much better on a movie screen than on a battlefield. But as you wish. After a week of the fierce battle all British jets were shoot down, and only one Norwegian F-35A with two JDAMs is still active at RAF Marham.
The little green men lost all their AAA, L-band radar, passive sensors, wasted almost all missiles. But: they still have their main radar, one missile, observers with IR-seekers (their own and in FSA), some fake missile launchers and 3 roughly masked fake radars (with emmiters). FSA have few agents in your army, mostly friendly population in Scotland, support of the EU and enough of Mistral-M3 MANPADS.

No nukes allowed.

Nukes are allowed in the most of my scenarios, but right now, well, a nuclear submarine with ICBMs is just a super-important target (another one was successfully destroyed in previose suicidal attacks). If you fail to destroy it - Free Scotland Army (with French support) will win the war. And you don't know her exact position in the harbour, because it was moved after your previous attack.

You can have the highest quality crew manning your S-400 system but even they can't make it any better than it already is. Your Scenario is busted.

Really? You have one F-35A with two JDAMs, one super-important target, three fake SAM radars, one real (you will know who is who only after one of them lock you at the distance 35-50 clicks), battlefield is covered by smoke and aerosol veil and you can't use low-attitude attack because of MANPADS.

It will be anything but a piece of cake.
How it was in that old DPRK comedy?

The F-35A won't use low altitude. He's going to be at somewhere between 20 and 40K in altitude flying as level as possible using his stealth. In a best case scenario, you might be able to scan him at 35K and lock on closer than that. Using a Bomb Toss, he can get 50 to 75K distance out of his JDAM Mk82. And while you are trying your damnedest to jam him, he is doing the same to you. And he's very, very good at that. Even if you jammed the GPS, it still won't change the fact that the JDAM used it to only get the initial location. Your site is not mobile. And he's after your Radar Domes and Antennaes. 30 meters is close enough. He doesn't have to destroy it but send enough shrapnel through it to take it off line. What you should be worried about right after that is the 4th gen fighters coming in to finish the job completely uncontested.

Are you sure?
View attachment 307602
View attachment 307604

View attachment 307606

View attachment 307605

Only an idiot will sit there and broadcast your GPS jammer. That makes you a sitting duck for a AGM-88C. Do you know the range of one of those puppies? 150K or 92 miles. And it's coming in at over 1400 mph. And guess what the F-35A can carry? You changed to rules to suit yourself. So I get one Harm and you just lost your radar site.

First (and most important) neither the UK, nor Norway have AARGM.
Second (if we restart the game "F-35 squadron vs S-400 battalion" from the very beginning) - Tunguskas will shoot down your AARGM easily.

Oh, so now you want 2 missiles. Does that mean I get more toys as well? Are we expanding the war? Now I get two F-35s or more. And one of them is going to blind your Radar Sites with ease where it can't see a damned thing.

 

[DrainBamage]

It means, that such things are almost useless in GPS-denied environments (including situation of the global war).

Fail, again.

Anti-radiation missiles target GPS jammers, so they cannot remain constant.
Laser guided weapons don't need GPS.
MMW guided weapons don't need GPS.
IIR guided weapons don't need GPS.

Well. May be you are right, and we should add some info in the discussion:

Of course I'm right, you're the guy who was playing expert saying they were clearing forests with F-35s and dumb bombs because he was making assumptions without knowing they were actually JDAMs.

Now you're posting manuals for something that isn't UAI, apparently in a feeble effort to protect your misguided notion that F-35 delivers unguided weapons. The "forest clearing" evidence was yanked out from under you yet you lack the self-awareness to understand how silly you sound carrying on about F-35s delivering unguided weapons that they clearly don't deliver.

 

[DrainBamage]

First (and most important) neither the UK, nor Norway have AARGM

In a thread about F-35 versus S-400, that isn't important at all.

Second (if we restart the game "F-35 squadron vs S-400 battalion" from the very beginning) - Tunguskas will shoot down your AARGM easily.

Nope. Tunguskas aren't designed to track or engage mach 2+ missiles. They were originally designed for helicopters and low flying attack aircraft, were upgraded to target cruise missiles.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

First (and most important) neither the UK, nor Norway have AARGM

In a thread about F-35 versus S-400, that isn't important at all.

Second (if we restart the game "F-35 squadron vs S-400 battalion" from the very beginning) - Tunguskas will shoot down your AARGM easily.

Nope. Tunguskas aren't designed to track or engage mach 2+ missiles. They were originally designed for helicopters and low flying attack aircraft, were upgraded to target cruise missiles.

And Cruise Missiles are subsonic and very large. The Harm is supersonic (Mach 2) and small in comparison. And the Harm comes in High, not low. The way to defeat a Harm is to shut your radar site down and move it. Just shutting it down won't work since it's locked on to the last known position. And the F-35A can carry two externally.

 

[DrainBamage]

and as of AGM-88E you've got to move it pretty far since they added a millimeter wave radar that will search for objects that looks like IADS components

GPS jammers are even more vulnerable than search radars or targeting radars, they'd be picked off as part of the attrition of the system. Silver Cat is attempting to fall back on some notion that installing a few 70s era short range anti-aircraft trucks somehow makes this system impervious to attack from supersonic missiles yet I'm not sure there is even a single real world example of them stopping a cruise missile much less something coming in at mach 2.

He ignores the fact that Israel has been operating around and attacking Russian made IADs for decades with near impunity using 4th gen air assets, it's a shame those operators didn't get Silver Cat's memo that all you need is some GPS jammers and antiaircraft guns sprinkled about to become untouchable. They would have smacked themselves on the forehead and said "why didn't we think of that?" pure genius.

 

[Silver Cat]

First (and most important) neither the UK, nor Norway have AARGM

In a thread about F-35 versus S-400, that isn't important at all.

Second (if we restart the game "F-35 squadron vs S-400 battalion" from the very beginning) - Tunguskas will shoot down your AARGM easily.

Nope. Tunguskas aren't designed to track or engage mach 2+ missiles. They were originally designed for helicopters and low flying attack aircraft, were upgraded to target cruise missiles.

And Cruise Missiles are subsonic and very large. The Harm is supersonic (Mach 2) and small in comparison. And the Harm comes in High, not low. The way to defeat a Harm is to shut your radar site down and move it. Just shutting it down won't work since it's locked on to the last known position. And the F-35A can carry two externally.

If PHA can buy Harms, FSA can buy Panzir-S1 and Tor-M2, which can intercept 700-1000 m/s missiles.
There is no and can not be any "unbreakable" defence. Any defence can be crushed. It's just a question of the sufficient resources.
One S-400 (or even S-300V4) battalion with old Tunguskas is enough to protect one important target from all British F-35 in their current status.
IADS of Kaliningrad region is sufficient to stop the whole European (without American support) aviation.

 

[Silver Cat]

and as of AGM-88E you've got to move it pretty far since they added a millimeter wave radar that will search for objects that looks like IADS components

GPS jammers are even more vulnerable than search radars or targeting radars, they'd be picked off as part of the attrition of the system. Silver Cat is attempting to fall back on some notion that installing a few 70s era short range anti-aircraft trucks somehow makes this system impervious to attack from supersonic missiles yet I'm not sure there is even a single real world example of them stopping a cruise missile much less something coming in at mach 2.

He ignores the fact that Israel has been operating around and attacking Russian made IADs for decades with near impunity using 4th gen air assets, it's a shame those operators didn't get Silver Cat's memo that all you need is some GPS jammers and antiaircraft guns sprinkled about to become untouchable. They would have smacked themselves on the forehead and said "why didn't we think of that?" pure genius.

As I said earlier - "The smart pilots with the dumb bombs are much more effective than the dumb pilots with the smart bombs"

 

[Daryl Hunt]

First (and most important) neither the UK, nor Norway have AARGM

In a thread about F-35 versus S-400, that isn't important at all.

Second (if we restart the game "F-35 squadron vs S-400 battalion" from the very beginning) - Tunguskas will shoot down your AARGM easily.

Nope. Tunguskas aren't designed to track or engage mach 2+ missiles. They were originally designed for helicopters and low flying attack aircraft, were upgraded to target cruise missiles.

And Cruise Missiles are subsonic and very large. The Harm is supersonic (Mach 2) and small in comparison. And the Harm comes in High, not low. The way to defeat a Harm is to shut your radar site down and move it. Just shutting it down won't work since it's locked on to the last known position. And the F-35A can carry two externally.

If PHA can buy Harms, FSA can buy Panzir-S1 and Tor-M2, which can intercept 700-1000 m/s missiles.
There is no and can not be any "unbreakable" defence. Any defence can be crushed. It's just a question of the sufficient resources.
One S-400 (or even S-300V4) battalion with old Tunguskas is enough to protect one important target from all British F-35 in their current status.
IADS of Kaliningrad region is sufficient to stop the whole European (without American support) aviation.

Burning hulks can't protect anyone from anything, cupiedoll.

 

[Silver Cat]

First (and most important) neither the UK, nor Norway have AARGM

In a thread about F-35 versus S-400, that isn't important at all.

Second (if we restart the game "F-35 squadron vs S-400 battalion" from the very beginning) - Tunguskas will shoot down your AARGM easily.

Nope. Tunguskas aren't designed to track or engage mach 2+ missiles. They were originally designed for helicopters and low flying attack aircraft, were upgraded to target cruise missiles.

And Cruise Missiles are subsonic and very large. The Harm is supersonic (Mach 2) and small in comparison. And the Harm comes in High, not low. The way to defeat a Harm is to shut your radar site down and move it. Just shutting it down won't work since it's locked on to the last known position. And the F-35A can carry two externally.

If PHA can buy Harms, FSA can buy Panzir-S1 and Tor-M2, which can intercept 700-1000 m/s missiles.
There is no and can not be any "unbreakable" defence. Any defence can be crushed. It's just a question of the sufficient resources.
One S-400 (or even S-300V4) battalion with old Tunguskas is enough to protect one important target from all British F-35 in their current status.
IADS of Kaliningrad region is sufficient to stop the whole European (without American support) aviation.

Burning hulks can't protect anyone from anything, cupiedoll.

Yes. The only question is how exactly our European friends pretend to do it without American help.

Combien faut-il de Français pour défendre Paris? Personne ne le sait: ils n’ont jamais essayé.