Evidence for Design #1 - Complexity, irreducible and otherwise

[JoeBlow]

Hyuck, Hyuck, LOL!

Give me an example of fossil evidence that excludes design and/or proves evolution by natural selection.

I already have but I'll do it again. Humans are getting taller and more intelligent through time, that's evolution through natural selection because taller, smarter humans have an advantage when it comes to breeding...

 

[Seymour Flops]

I already have but I'll do it again. Humans are getting taller and more intelligent through time, that's evolution through natural selection because taller, smarter humans have an advantage when it comes to breeding...

But those humans, short and tall, were alive at the same time. Are you saying that the short ones are the tall one's ancestors?

How do you know that the tall one is more intelligent than the short ones? That pith helmet doesn't make him seem too bright. Are you making the assumption that lighter skin = more intelligence?

Plus, none of those people are fossils. Are you backtracking on fossil evidence for Darwinism?

 

[JoeBlow]

But those humans, short and tall, were alive at the same time. Are you saying that the short ones are the tall one's ancestors?

How do you know that the tall one is more intelligent than the short ones? That pith helmet doesn't make him seem too bright. Are you making the assumption that lighter skin = more intelligence?

Plus, none of those people are fossils. Are you backtracking on fossil evidence for Darwinism?

Wow, you are certainly confused. Humans are getting taller, even today's short people are taller then the short people in the crowd of the day 500 years ago. Get it? You can tell that from, yes, their bones that are dug up, but also from their clothes, houses,... which were all smaller than they are today. Lots of proof for evolution, which is what humans changing through time is.

And ask women, they prefer smarter guys, taller and better looking ones as well, they get the best females for breeding.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Wow, you are certainly confused. Humans are getting taller, even today's short people are taller then the short people in the crowd of the day 500 years ago. Get it? You can tell that from, yes, their bones that are dug up, but also from their clothes, houses,... which were all smaller than they are today. Lots of proof for evolution, which is what humans changing through time is.

And ask women, they prefer smarter guys, taller and better looking ones as well, they get the best females for breeding.

Evolution = speciation.

Or admit you can't make an argument for Darwinian evolution, so you babble about white people being more intelligent than black people and chicks digging tall guys.

Why are you afraid to answer my questions?

 

[Clyde 154]

The basic idea of complexity as an argument in favor of design, and against the random mutations required by Darwinism is that random processes do not create complex systems that work together.

Suppose you wrote a thousand basic English words on individual cards. Then you write the conjugations of all the verbs, all the pronoun forms, and say the top two hundred first names, on separate cards. So you would get maybe three thousand cards (a guess).

Randomly pull any two cards and line them up in the order you pulled them and a non-zero percent of the time, you will get a complete sentence that makes sense. "John works." "She smiles." "Cats fight." etc. Mainly you will get unusable sentence fragments "Purple tire," "Happy stripe," "brick bumper," etc.

Make it three cards and the percent of three card sequences that create a sentence will sharply drop. Four, five, six, and so on, the percent approaches zero very rapidly. You'll wear out your arm drawing cards waiting for a sentence to appear.

Darwin's theory consists of confidence that such random process improbabilities have occurred over and over, literally billions of times. It could have happened, sure. It's nearly impossible for one person to win the lotto twice, but some guy in Maryland did it recently.

But "could happen," is a far cry from "did happen," and an even further cry from "Of course it happened, and only a religious fanatic would even dare doubt that it happened FOR SURE!"

It is far more likely that the evolutionary process was guided by design.

Michael Behe wrote about "irreducible complexity," at the molecular level in living organisms. I feel that I can understand his argument, but I'm not sure if I could explain it, particularly to the members of this forum. So I'll quote him and you can judge for yourself.

I defined an irreducibly complex system as: a single system which is necessarily composed of several well-matched, interacting parts that contribute to the basic function, and where the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively cease functioning. (Behe 2001)

As an example of an irreducibly complex system from everyday life, I pointed to a mechanical mousetrap such as one finds in a hardware store. Typically such traps have a number of parts: a spring, wooden platform, hammer, and other pieces. If one removes a piece from the trap, it can’t catch mice.

Irreducibly complex systems seem very difficult to fit into a Darwinian framework, for a reason insisted upon by Darwin himself. In the Origin Darwin wrote that “If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.

The question then becomes, are there any irreducibly complex systems in the cell? Are there any irreducibly complex molecular machines? Yes, there are many. In Darwin’s Black Box I discussed several biochemical systems as examples of irreducible complexity: the eukaryotic cilium; the intracellular transport system; and more. Here I will just briefly describe the bacterial flagellum (DeRosier 1998; Shapiro 1995), since its structure makes the difficulty for Darwinian evolution easy to see. (Figure 19.1) The flagellum can be thought of as an outboard motor that bacteria use to swim. It was the first truly rotary structure discovered in nature. It consists of a long filamentous tail that acts as a propeller; when it is spun it pushes against the liquid medium and can propel the bacterium forward. The propeller is attached to the drive shaft indirectly through something called the hook region, which acts as a universal joint. The drive shaft is attached to the motor, which uses a flow of acid or sodium ions from the outside of the cell to the inside to power rotation. Just as an outboard motor has to be kept stationary on a motorboat while the propeller turns, there are proteins which act as a stator structure to keep the flagellum in place. Other proteins act as bushings to permit the drive shaft to pass through the bacterial membrane. Studies have shown that 30-40 proteins are required to produce a functioning flagellum in the cell. About half of the proteins are components of the finished structure, while the others are necessary for the construction of the flagellum.

View attachment 597891

https://www.lehigh.edu/~inbios/Faculty/Behe/PDF/Behe_chapter.pdf

The evidence of intelligent design/creation is naturally all around us, man is without excuse when they choose to ignore the God of Creation.

"For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men; Who hold the truth in unrighteousness.

Because that which can be known of God is manifest in them; For God has shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; So they are without excuse:

Because that when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish hearts were darkend.

Professing themselves wise, they became fools."

 

[JoeBlow]

Evolution = speciation.

Or admit you can't make an argument for Darwinian evolution, so you babble about white people being more intelligent than black people and chicks digging tall guys.

Why are you afraid to answer my questions?

What's specific to Darwinian evolution that's different from what I'm saying?

I never mentioned race, but yes, White people as a whole are smarter than Blacks whose lack of education is holding their brains back from getting smarter at the same rate as other races.

What questions?

 

[Seymour Flops]

What's specific to Darwinian evolution that's different from what I'm saying?

Speciation.

I never mentioned race, but yes, White people as a whole are smarter than Blacks whose lack of education is holding their brains back from getting smarter at the same rate as other races.

IQ has nothing to do with education. There are differences in IQ among racial groups, but I believe differences in maternal nutrition are the cause, not genetics. Among races, not between individuals.

What questions?

I need an eye roll emoticon here.

 

[Clyde 154]

Speaking of "Race" there is only one race of peoples on the earth, The Human Race (Acts 17:26).

All things being equal, given the fact that you are born with no anomalies ...........one person holds the potential to be just as intelligent as the next. Its one's environment, surroundings, culture, traditions etc., they are exposed to in their development years that set the standard for advanced learning, its simply a matter of personal motivation and drive.

One's work ethics are engrained by his/her familiar background, some are doomed into perpetual poverty through generational welfare programs etc. That which was intended to help the impoverished in reality became nothing but a tool of static poverty. It removed a great deal of motivation for personal achievement. But this has nothing to do with intellectual potential.........its all about drive and motivation regardless of what ladder of society one comes from. Some simply do not have to work as hard to overcome their societal position due to the way some attempt to segregate and pigeon hole entire groups of people based upon skin color. Its what some might call "white privilege".............but in reality white privilege is nothing but a product of segregation based upon a supposed "progressive" agenda to help the under privileged people of color. It has accomplished nothing but the perpetual use of RACE BAITING.

Progressive government has built and constructed modern day plantations called Urban Development "projects" which turn into nothing but a prison for the generational welfare recipients in never allowing those who live in such projects any type of motivation to seek anything greater than a simple existence from one welfare check to the next which simply furnishes nothing but the bare essentials to maintain life. Its almost like this is by design in order to maintain a static voting base for those who push welfare in order to maintain political power and authority.

The world owes a great deal to peoples of all colors and genders. Example of great contributions to the world invented by those other than "white".

Mathematics, religion even Christianity, great novels in literature, paper, ink, black powder, music, great dance routines, guns, black powder bombs, the seismograph, the compass, marital arts, peanut butter, heart transplants, silk, tea, shampoo,................the list goes on and on, I am sure I have left out a great many products that have helped the HUMAN RACE, all created by people of all different colors and backgrounds.

 

[JoeBlow]

Speciation.

IQ has nothing to do with education. There are differences in IQ among racial groups, but I believe differences in maternal nutrition are the cause, not genetics. Among races, not between individuals.

I need an eye roll emoticon here.

I looked up speciation, and this was the first line "Speciation is the evolutionary process ...". So I'm not sure what you mean, speciation is evolution.

 

[Seymour Flops]

I looked up speciation, and this was the first line "Speciation is the evolutionary process ...". So I'm not sure what you mean, speciation is evolution.

Glad they you are looking things up.

So If a poster claims that evolution takes place without speciation, they are wrong?

 

[JoeBlow]

Glad they you are looking things up.

So If a poster claims that evolution takes place without speciation, they are wrong?

Evolution changes all species but it takes millions of years, it's not going to happen in a youtube video.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Evolution changes all species but it takes millions of years, it's not going to happen in a youtube video.

So If a poster claims that evolution takes place without speciation, they Are wrong?

 

[JoeBlow]

So If a poster claims that evolution takes place without speciation, they Are wrong?

No, evolution is the process of changing, not just the change.

 

[ding]

No, evolution is the process of changing, not just the change.

Evolution is when anything changes from a less advanced state to a more advanced state. It is possible for you to evolve.