Europe and the muslim cultural problems

[Munin]

One of the biggest problems in Europe is the thing that a lot of muslim immigrants (even from the second or third generation who live in Europe) don't seem to accept the Western culture and its main values. A lot of immigrants with muslim background from Northern Africa or even Turkey seem to have their own laws within their community in Europe, laws that in some cases are contradictory with the real laws in that country. Unlike in the US muslims do not always feel at home in Europe and tend to stay within their own societies creating sometimes "a city within a city", wich is normally no problem if they abide by the same laws as other cities but this doesn't seem to be always the case.

What showed this division very good was the reaction towards the mohammed cartoons, clearly in the West it is no problem to make cartoons with Jesus or any other religious figure with a bomb pictured on their head because we only see it as an expression of free speech. Although not all muslims supported the protests, there were only a few muslims who actually dare to speak against it (because of fear of persecution by muslim extremists). Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The problem in Europe is becoming bigger because most politicians don't dare to tackle this issue because of fear of being marked as a racist and the ones who do try this seem to be branded a racist by other politicians for political gain. This causes that only very radical political parties are treating this subject, creating very big sometimes racist parties in some European Nations like Belgium, Austria, the Netherlands ...

The absence of intervention from the government seems to radicalize both the immigrants and the local population. Could there come an end to this or will this inevidably turn ugly in the future?


Other big examples are:

The netherlands:

Popular Dutch far-right leader of a political party shot dead

"Fortuyn has provoked public indignation by calling for the Netherlands' borders to be closed to immigrants and by describing Islam as a 'backward' religion."
BBC News | EUROPE | Dutch far-right leader shot dead

Death threats towards people who have outspoken criticism of conservative Islam like Ayaan Hirsi Ali:
BBC NEWS | Europe | Profile: Ayaan Hirsi Ali
(short interview of Ayaan Hirsi Ali)[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOzW-aHo-6E]YouTube - Ayaan Hirsi Ali - Is Europe too Tolerant of Radical Islam?[/ame]

Dutch film maker Theo van Gogh, who made a controversial film about Islamic culture, has been stabbed and shot dead
BBC NEWS | Europe | Gunman kills Dutch film director





Europe Needs More Immigrants, But Sees Spike in Racism - NAM

Muslims on front line as racism rises across EU - Europe, World - The Independent

 

[Bootneck]

Could there be signs that muslims are beginning to integrate in Europe?

 

[Munin]

Could there be signs that muslims are beginning to integrate in Europe?

Photoshop?

 

[mightypeon]

You know, as a German I would offer a simple solution:
Chosse your immigrants. In my own country, we have the totally crappy situation that Having a German grand grand grand Grandfather does more for your prospects of getting a German citizenship than having a paying Job, speaking German and beeing fully intergrated in the society does.
There are also some awesome success stories concerning immigration. Especially Eastern Germany has a significant Population of ethnicial Vietnamese, although the first generation of this Immigrant usually had a very low level of education, their children do better in school than "ethnic German" ones. As a matter of fact up to 80% have the "permission to go to University". I dont want to go into the details of the German education system, but it basically means that you successfully complete the highest of its three tiers.

 

[Mad Scientist]

...Especially Eastern Germany has a significant Population of ethnicial Vietnamese, although the first generation of this Immigrant usually had a very low level of education, their children do better in school than "ethnic German" ones.

I'm imagining an Asian woman with a German accent, that's gotta be hot! I love em with British accents too. I once met a Japanese woman in Tokyo who had a strong Australian accent after having lived there for a few years.

When they have the American "Valley Girl" accents it's just a big turn off.

 

[roomy]

You know, as a German I would offer a simple solution:
Chosse your immigrants. In my own country, we have the totally crappy situation that Having a German grand grand grand Grandfather does more for your prospects of getting a German citizenship than having a paying Job, speaking German and beeing fully intergrated in the society does.
There are also some awesome success stories concerning immigration. Especially Eastern Germany has a significant Population of ethnicial Vietnamese, although the first generation of this Immigrant usually had a very low level of education, their children do better in school than "ethnic German" ones. As a matter of fact up to 80% have the "permission to go to University". I dont want to go into the details of the German education system, but it basically means that you successfully complete the highest of its three tiers.

Vot iz yor nem?

 

[mightypeon]

Ju need to ged ze Dschörman Akzent betterr, orr Ju will not resiwe ze blessing of ze Bratwurst.

 

[Munin]

Here is an example of the real problem:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkMU4ip6CpY&feature=related]YouTube - Muslim Protests in Europe[/ame]

the tolerance of muslim radicalism

 

[Ravi]

Aren't most immigrants to Europe unallowed to become citizens? And neither are their kids, correct?

 

[Munin]

Aren't most immigrants to Europe unallowed to become citizens? And neither are their kids, correct?

Normally this is true, that only educated workers and people who have an authorization to work there get citizenship.
But recently this has changed somewhat and it more depends on the nation, in some countries you become automatically a citizen if your request for citizenship takes too long to process. It is so that some European Nations have very loose immigration laws like Spain for example (once you are on Spanish soil, they see you as a European citizen: they don't take much time to look for illegal immigrants on spanish soil). And others have even looser immigration laws towards kids, other family like Belgium: they call it "the family reunion law".

Also because some nations have a colonial past they have different immigration laws towards the nations they colonized in the past, so they sometimes have a favorable position as an immigrant.

Really it is very different between European Nations. There are no unified laws for the whole of Europe, even people who come from other European Nations have some sort of immigrant status.

 

[mightypeon]

In some countries like Germany there are even strong regional differences in how easy it is to "become German". It is way more difficult in Bavaria than in Berlin for example.

 

[Harry Dresden]

...Especially Eastern Germany has a significant Population of ethnicial Vietnamese, although the first generation of this Immigrant usually had a very low level of education, their children do better in school than "ethnic German" ones.

I'm imagining an Asian woman with a German accent, that's gotta be hot! I love em with British accents too. I once met a Japanese woman in Tokyo who had a strong Australian accent after having lived there for a few years.

When they have the American "Valley Girl" accents it's just a big turn off.

yea ,until that "VALLY GIRL" is sitting on your face.....then its ok....

 

[Munin]

Also this is a survey of the UK that also shows this multicultural problem in europe:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9Xb7sL2MtQ&feature=related]YouTube - UK Muslim Survey[/ame]

A specific issue of Saudi Arabian interference with muslims in the UK:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hBXHtQDxOo&feature=related[/ame]

CNN documentary about radicalizing muslims in the UK:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGvjxtnOo4U&feature=related[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGSWEdS1E54&feature=related[/ame]

 

[Baron]

Europa is nowaday too corrupt, too stupid and too politically correct.

 

[Zebra]

One of the biggest problems in Europe is the thing that a lot of muslim immigrants (even from the second or third generation who live in Europe) don't seem to accept the Western culture and its main values. A lot of immigrants with muslim background from Northern Africa or even Turkey seem to have their own laws within their community in Europe, laws that in some cases are contradictory with the real laws in that country. Unlike in the US muslims do not always feel at home in Europe and tend to stay within their own societies creating sometimes "a city within a city", wich is normally no problem if they abide by the same laws as other cities but this doesn't seem to be always the case.

What showed this division very good was the reaction towards the mohammed cartoons, clearly in the West it is no problem to make cartoons with Jesus or any other religious figure with a bomb pictured on their head because we only see it as an expression of free speech. Although not all muslims supported the protests, there were only a few muslims who actually dare to speak against it (because of fear of persecution by muslim extremists). Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The problem in Europe is becoming bigger because most politicians don't dare to tackle this issue because of fear of being marked as a racist and the ones who do try this seem to be branded a racist by other politicians for political gain. This causes that only very radical political parties are treating this subject, creating very big sometimes racist parties in some European Nations like Belgium, Austria, the Netherlands ...

The absence of intervention from the government seems to radicalize both the immigrants and the local population. Could there come an end to this or will this inevidably turn ugly in the future?


Other big examples are:

The netherlands:

Popular Dutch far-right leader of a political party shot dead

"Fortuyn has provoked public indignation by calling for the Netherlands' borders to be closed to immigrants and by describing Islam as a 'backward' religion."
BBC News | EUROPE | Dutch far-right leader shot dead

Death threats towards people who have outspoken criticism of conservative Islam like Ayaan Hirsi Ali:
BBC NEWS | Europe | Profile: Ayaan Hirsi Ali
(short interview of Ayaan Hirsi Ali)[ame=[MEDIA=youtube]EOzW-aHo-6E[/MEDIA] - Ayaan Hirsi Ali - Is Europe too Tolerant of Radical Islam?[/ame]

Dutch film maker Theo van Gogh, who made a controversial film about Islamic culture, has been stabbed and shot dead
BBC NEWS | Europe | Gunman kills Dutch film director





Europe Needs More Immigrants, But Sees Spike in Racism - NAM

Muslims on front line as racism rises across EU - Europe, World - The Independent

still topical

 

[ShahdagMountains]

There is also a sizeable Christian Arab population in Germany, which is sympathetic to Israel.

 

[Zebra]

There is also a sizeable Christian Arab population in Germany, which is sympathetic to Israel.

sounds good!