Economist: The looming crisis in human genetics

Neotrotsky

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Economist: The looming crisis in human genetics

The Economist:

Human geneticists have reached a private crisis of conscience, and it will become public knowledge in 2010. The crisis has depressing health implications and alarming political ones. In a nutshell: the new genetics will reveal much less than hoped about how to cure disease, and much more than feared about human evolution and inequality, including genetic differences between classes, ethnicities and races.

n 2010, GWAS fever will reach its peak. Dozens of papers will report specific genes associated with almost every imaginable trait—intelligence, personality, religiosity, sexuality, longevity, economic risk-taking, consumer preferences, leisure interests and political attitudes. The data are already collected, with DNA samples from large populations already measured for these traits. It’s just a matter of doing the statistics and writing up the papers for Nature Genetics. The gold rush is on throughout the leading behaviour-genetics centres in London, Amsterdam, Boston, Boulder and Brisbane.

We will also identify the many genes that create physical and mental differences across populations, and we will be able to estimate when those genes arose. Some of those differences probably occurred very recently, within recorded history. Gregory Cochran and Henry Harpending argued in “The 10,000 Year Explosion” that some human groups experienced a vastly accelerated rate of evolutionary change within the past few thousand years, benefiting from the new genetic diversity created within far larger populations, and in response to the new survival, social and reproductive challenges of agriculture, cities, divisions of labour and social classes. Others did not experience these changes until the past few hundred years when they were subject to contact, colonisation and, all too often, extermination.

If the shift from GWAS to sequencing studies finds evidence of such politically awkward and morally perplexing facts, we can expect the usual range of ideological reactions, including nationalistic retro-racism from conservatives and outraged denial from blank-slate liberals. The few who really understand the genetics will gain a more enlightened, live-and-let-live recognition of the biodiversity within our extraordinary species—including a clearer view of likely comparative advantages between the world’s different economies.
 
Odd, I fail to see how a differance in genetics translates into a economics.

Historically, there have been times that each race was at the forefront of civilization. So how does that fit the theory of genetic superiority?

It will be very useful to see what genetics are associated with various human traits, however, the interaction of the human genome is complex enough that I seriously doubt that we will have predictive powers for an individual concerning mental and physical abilities within the life time of anyone on this board. Except for obvious genetic defects.
 
Odd, I fail to see how a differance in genetics translates into a economics.

Historically, there have been times that each race was at the forefront of civilization. So how does that fit the theory of genetic superiority?

It will be very useful to see what genetics are associated with various human traits, however, the interaction of the human genome is complex enough that I seriously doubt that we will have predictive powers for an individual concerning mental and physical abilities within the life time of anyone on this board. Except for obvious genetic defects.


I suppose one could argue that certain traits may help in different economic situations.
competitiveness; risk taking, innovation etc

Look at modern man vs Neanderthals
Neanderthals were around for a long time; but their tools never really changed over time
They are gone

Nor does genetic take into account the role nurture can play
 
You are quite wrong. The neanderthals tools did change over time. Their diet did not. Homo Sap learned to eat just about anything during the bottleneck from the eruption of Toba. So when the climate switched back and forth rapidly toward the end of the last ice age, the large mammals that the Neanderthals depended on died out, and they died out as their prey disappeared.
 
Meaty appetites may have caused Neanderthal extinction

Plants and animals have contrasting isotopic ratios, so when these are eaten they leave different signatures in a Neanderthal's bones. And because the bones grow slowly, the signature represents a 10 to 20-year average of the individual's diet, not just their last meal.

The researchers "calibrated" the analyses by comparing the Neanderthal bone ratios with those from contemporaneous animals at the top (bears) and bottom (bison) of the animal food chain.

The ratios showed that the Neanderthals were top-level predators, getting about 90% of their protein from meat. Previous research shows this sometimes included cannibalism. The rest of the protein would have come from nuts and grains.
 
Meaty appetites may have caused Neanderthal extinction

Plants and animals have contrasting isotopic ratios, so when these are eaten they leave different signatures in a Neanderthal's bones. And because the bones grow slowly, the signature represents a 10 to 20-year average of the individual's diet, not just their last meal.

The researchers "calibrated" the analyses by comparing the Neanderthal bone ratios with those from contemporaneous animals at the top (bears) and bottom (bison) of the animal food chain.

The ratios showed that the Neanderthals were top-level predators, getting about 90% of their protein from meat. Previous research shows this sometimes included cannibalism. The rest of the protein would have come from nuts and grains.



Well I said changed much- the issue is not degree. True in the beginning the tools of Neanderthals and modern man were similar. but, no doubt modern man had a technological advantage that "paid off" in the long run. Again, this is not saying one is dumb or better; it just had a comparative advantage.




Again, but not to digress from the original question


your original post said you did not see how genetics could play a role.

I was only suggesting a possibility of how they may- Mind you this in no way is a claim of proof; it is just a suggestion.
 
Does this mean that the government will start doing real-time societal engineering by limiting some traits from reproducing while encouraging others to create offspring?

The way it is now, the dumber ones do nothing but make babies that they can't afford, so they end up in prisons or as criminals. The more intelligent ones don't reproduce as much because they realize what the can afford.
 
Does this mean that the government will start doing real-time societal engineering by limiting some traits from reproducing while encouraging others to create offspring?

The way it is now, the dumber ones do nothing but make babies that they can't afford, so they end up in prisons or as criminals. The more intelligent ones don't reproduce as much because they realize what the can afford.



How do think the Democrats keep their base going?
:eusa_whistle:
 
Odd, I fail to see how a differance in genetics translates into a economics.

Historically, there have been times that each race was at the forefront of civilization. So how does that fit the theory of genetic superiority?

It will be very useful to see what genetics are associated with various human traits, however, the interaction of the human genome is complex enough that I seriously doubt that we will have predictive powers for an individual concerning mental and physical abilities within the life time of anyone on this board. Except for obvious genetic defects.


I suppose one could argue that certain traits may help in different economic situations.
competitiveness; risk taking, innovation etc

Look at modern man vs Neanderthals
Neanderthals were around for a long time; but their tools never really changed over time
They are gone

Nor does genetic take into account the role nurture can play

Neanderthals just work in insurance commercials now.
And of course football.
 
You're not looking at the bigger picture here. I'm talking about the government not letting illiterates, druggies, criminals, genetic problems, etc not reproduce. Lets say that the government offers them $10,000 to get their tubes tied in high school. In the long run, the govt should reap benefits of smaller prison population and more resources, such as for medical care.
 
You're not looking at the bigger picture here. I'm talking about the government not letting illiterates, druggies, criminals, genetic problems, etc not reproduce. Lets say that the government offers them $10,000 to get their tubes tied in high school. In the long run, the govt should reap benefits of smaller prison population and more resources, such as for medical care.

Play Gawd a while? And then realize we did not know all the implications and make things worse for all?
It is the story of humans.
 
You're not looking at the bigger picture here. I'm talking about the government not letting illiterates, druggies, criminals, genetic problems, etc not reproduce. Lets say that the government offers them $10,000 to get their tubes tied in high school. In the long run, the govt should reap benefits of smaller prison population and more resources, such as for medical care.


Of course, with need for gov't to rationalize its' need and importance, our future may look like this movie

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e2OEgafELw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e2OEgafELw[/ame]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e2OEgafELw=embedded player
 
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When an animal is hungry, I have seen them eat most anything. I would expect that Neanderthals ate anything they could put into their mouths to feed themselves. They did not die out because their normal food supply ran out. They were fairly intelligent and modified tools to fit the situation and survived for thousands of years in various climates in Europe and Asia. No, they did not die out from lack of food. They were murdered by modern man. Neanderthals were too different and had to be killed. That killing of difference is a trait of modern man, and we frequently lapse into that mode of operation when crowded.
 
Meaty appetites may have caused Neanderthal extinction

Plants and animals have contrasting isotopic ratios, so when these are eaten they leave different signatures in a Neanderthal's bones. And because the bones grow slowly, the signature represents a 10 to 20-year average of the individual's diet, not just their last meal.

The researchers "calibrated" the analyses by comparing the Neanderthal bone ratios with those from contemporaneous animals at the top (bears) and bottom (bison) of the animal food chain.

The ratios showed that the Neanderthals were top-level predators, getting about 90% of their protein from meat. Previous research shows this sometimes included cannibalism. The rest of the protein would have come from nuts and grains.

It wasn't just that their meat supply diminished. Being meat eaters limited the size of their clans to no more than about a dozen people. You can only feed so many people off of a kill. You also needed fresh kills every few days.
Those who could grow crops could feed many more people and developed more complex societies
 
Does this mean that the government will start doing real-time societal engineering by limiting some traits from reproducing while encouraging others to create offspring?

The way it is now, the dumber ones do nothing but make babies that they can't afford, so they end up in prisons or as criminals. The more intelligent ones don't reproduce as much because they realize what the can afford.
The mapping and understanding of the human genome has been the holy grail of eugenics.

Will be interesting to find out if certain things like race or sexual orientation is the result of an actual gene or birth defect or mutation that can be "cured".

That's the kinda crap I'm worried about. Particularly if the fetus has no rights. This is an ill wind for everyone to be honest.
 
I have long favored a program to sterilize all people with IQ's below 110 or there abouts.

Why let the retarded breed?
 
Interesting article, especially since I just studied a bit of genetics recently. Well, as far as trying to play God and perform artificial selection rather than letting nature do its thing (i.e. natural selection), here's an actual scientific principle that's basically out of the book: the gene pool of a species is what it is after 100s of thousands or even millions of years of 'fine tuning' (i.e. evolution). In other words, the gene pool that we have at hand is the most optimal one for the whole of the species.

So when we try to grasp and manipulate this gene pool, it would do us good to keep in mind that we are not tampering with a random system. Rather, we are tampering with a highly ordered, most optimal system; hence we are actually pushing things on the whole, out of optimal balance. I apply the same principle to weather manipulation that various governments have been trying recently (most recent being China...with predictably devastating results as I recall).

Well, I realize that this is an economics forum, but couldn't help but throw in my tupence :cool: Anyway, as far as blaming and punishing all the 'high-breeding, low-producing' individuals of society by way of sterilization (even if it is, as I dearly hope to God, a joke), I should suggest that it would do us all some good that we remind each other that we are all responsible to our own actions. Anyone who's had a stint in sociology would know the variety of historical, cultural, legal, etc. perspectives to understand the circumstances of such 'parasitic' individuals of society.

Peace
 
much ado about nothing I suspect

Agreed:

The last line in the article should have been more reflected in the title:

The few who really understand the genetics will gain a more enlightened, live-and-let-live recognition of the biodiversity within our extraordinary species—including a clearer view of likely comparative advantages between the world’s different economies.

Imbaciles will always misconstrue anything.
 

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