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Downgrading of credit rating not credible

Gadawg73

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Americans are not very smart these days but I believe they are starting to come around.
T Party leveraged the fact that the news was before the debt deal that the credit rating would be downgraded by Stand and Poors. No problem with that as that is politics.
But anyone, including members of the T Party, that believes that has any credibility whatsoever is ignorant.
Folks, Standard and Poors are the same clowns that gave AAA ratings to all of those bundled mortgages that were toxic loans from the start and they also gave an A rating to Lehman Brothers, the company that filed the largest bankruptcy in American history.
Yes, most Americans do no research whatsoever and will jump on any bandwagon with a seat be it socialist, liberal, far right, religous right or T Party ideologue gone whacky.
However, my bet is that this will be good for the T Party long term. I fully support their core beliefs. If anything, this will awaken their base and continue to weed out the kooks in their midst which EVERY political entity, namely Democrat and Republican, always have.
 

ScienceRocks

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Are you fucking serious? We're 14.5 trillion or nearing 100 percent of gdp in federal debt and with over 100 something trillion in overall liabilities that we can't possibly pay back. The entire freaking world couldn't bail our asses out if it tried, and we're spending 1.5 trillion over what our tax base can support each and every year.

Truth is S&P downgraded us to little as there is NO chance in hell that we're AA+ right now...In fact we're worst off then Greece that has a CC rating. The sad truth is they are scared to down grade us through the fact that if they do our whole world is at risk of sliding into the crapper. :( In for reasons of being raided by police and other organizations for reasons of such.

Also, we're not some small nation that can easily be bailed out of a mess like Greece, ect. Ask your self what is more risk at the end of the day? Greece that can be bailed out(And fully backed by the central Bank of the european union) or the United states that can't.

The european union can't even bail out a Spain size nation there selfs. It would break the back of the world to try bailing out the US.
 
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chikenwing

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If you went to the bank for a loan with the debt to income the feds have ,do ya think the would let your buy that new Buick?
 

Ravi

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Yeah, you have to wonder if the downgrade was done for political reasons.
 

8537

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Truth is S&P downgraded us to little as there is NO chance in hell that we're AA+ right now...In fact we're worst off then Greece that has a CC rating.

Try telling that to people buying 10-yr Treasuries at some of the highest prices on record. Are they all wrong?
 
OP
Gadawg73

Gadawg73

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If you went to the bank for a loan with the debt to income the feds have ,do ya think the would let your buy that new Buick?

You can believe all you want that those bundled mortgages and Lehman Brothers' books were worthy of a AAA rating and Standard and Poors were credible in believing their books were not cooked.
I don't.
I pay cash for everything.
 

ScienceRocks

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If you went to the bank for a loan with the debt to income the feds have ,do ya think the would let your buy that new Buick?

You can believe all you want that those bundled mortgages and Lehman Brothers' books were worthy of a AAA rating and Standard and Poors were credible in believing their books were not cooked.
I don't.
I pay cash for everything.

Your right about mortgages and lehman brothers- there is no question of it. They holded them up as they're holding up the United states credit rating.:(
 
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Toro

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I support S&P in their downgrade. However ...

In fact we're worst off then Greece that has a CC rating.

This is completely wrong. We are not worse off than Greece. Greek interest rates are trading as much as 17% higher than American interest rates. I read somewhere that of the 126 countries rated, Greece ranks 126th.

Plus, America can print money endlessly. Greece cannot. We can inflate away our debt. Greece cannot. That isn't a good thing, of course, but its far different than Greece, which is caught in a hopeless deflationary spiral of which it cannot get out without default and exit from the euro.
 

ShackledNation

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Americans are not very smart these days but I believe they are starting to come around.
T Party leveraged the fact that the news was before the debt deal that the credit rating would be downgraded by Stand and Poors. No problem with that as that is politics.
But anyone, including members of the T Party, that believes that has any credibility whatsoever is ignorant.
Folks, Standard and Poors are the same clowns that gave AAA ratings to all of those bundled mortgages that were toxic loans from the start and they also gave an A rating to Lehman Brothers, the company that filed the largest bankruptcy in American history.
Yes, most Americans do no research whatsoever and will jump on any bandwagon with a seat be it socialist, liberal, far right, religous right or T Party ideologue gone whacky.
However, my bet is that this will be good for the T Party long term. I fully support their core beliefs. If anything, this will awaken their base and continue to weed out the kooks in their midst which EVERY political entity, namely Democrat and Republican, always have.
You have correctly established that rating agencies overestimate credit ratings.

Therefore, the credit rating of the US government is still too high, and it should be downgraded further.
 
OP
Gadawg73

Gadawg73

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Americans are not very smart these days but I believe they are starting to come around.
T Party leveraged the fact that the news was before the debt deal that the credit rating would be downgraded by Stand and Poors. No problem with that as that is politics.
But anyone, including members of the T Party, that believes that has any credibility whatsoever is ignorant.
Folks, Standard and Poors are the same clowns that gave AAA ratings to all of those bundled mortgages that were toxic loans from the start and they also gave an A rating to Lehman Brothers, the company that filed the largest bankruptcy in American history.
Yes, most Americans do no research whatsoever and will jump on any bandwagon with a seat be it socialist, liberal, far right, religous right or T Party ideologue gone whacky.
However, my bet is that this will be good for the T Party long term. I fully support their core beliefs. If anything, this will awaken their base and continue to weed out the kooks in their midst which EVERY political entity, namely Democrat and Republican, always have.
You have correctly established that rating agencies overestimate credit ratings.

Therefore, the credit rating of the US government is still too high, and it should be downgraded further.

Correct conclusion.
But what entity has the credibility to rate any nation's credit worthiness in these times?
And don't the standards for rating change with each and every scenario of the times at hand?
 

ShackledNation

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If you went to the bank for a loan with the debt to income the feds have ,do ya think the would let your buy that new Buick?

You can believe all you want that those bundled mortgages and Lehman Brothers' books were worthy of a AAA rating and Standard and Poors were credible in believing their books were not cooked.
I don't.
I pay cash for everything.
They were not worthy of those ratings, correct. But the reason the ratings were given anyway is because of government.

First of all, the handful of approved ratings agencies are actually just an SEC-created cartel protected from competition.

Given that these agencies were protected from free competition by government, it can easily be objected that these agencies would not want to create political waves by rocking the mortgage boat, endangering a potential loss of their protected profits. Given the Federal Reserve's statement that the investments were sound, and government policy and rhetoric encouraging such policies, these agencies may have lost their status had they rocked that boat.

For the same reason, the US government is rated higher than it should be. It makes no sense to embarrass the hand that feeds you.
 

BlindBoo

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Americans are not very smart these days but I believe they are starting to come around.
T Party leveraged the fact that the news was before the debt deal that the credit rating would be downgraded by Stand and Poors. No problem with that as that is politics.
But anyone, including members of the T Party, that believes that has any credibility whatsoever is ignorant.
Folks, Standard and Poors are the same clowns that gave AAA ratings to all of those bundled mortgages that were toxic loans from the start and they also gave an A rating to Lehman Brothers, the company that filed the largest bankruptcy in American history.
Yes, most Americans do no research whatsoever and will jump on any bandwagon with a seat be it socialist, liberal, far right, religous right or T Party ideologue gone whacky.
However, my bet is that this will be good for the T Party long term. I fully support their core beliefs. If anything, this will awaken their base and continue to weed out the kooks in their midst which EVERY political entity, namely Democrat and Republican, always have.

Awwww Americans were never really that smart to begin with and I don't see a large majority coming around. The rapid rise of the Tea-mmmm-folks is a testement to that. They are mostly led arround by their TV's and sound bytes.

The raising of the debt ceiling should never have made part of the deficit reduction negotiations. That is the reason it became political theater marked with hysteria.

We definantly need to reduce our deficit to nothing and begin to pay down the debt.

I support recending the Bush Tax cuts even if it mean raising my taxes.

I also support withdrawing as the worlds police.

I think we should end the percecution of Americans who use non-approved recreational herbs.
 
OP
Gadawg73

Gadawg73

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If you went to the bank for a loan with the debt to income the feds have ,do ya think the would let your buy that new Buick?

You can believe all you want that those bundled mortgages and Lehman Brothers' books were worthy of a AAA rating and Standard and Poors were credible in believing their books were not cooked.
I don't.
I pay cash for everything.
They were not worthy of those ratings, correct. But the reason the ratings were given anyway is because of government.

First of all, the handful of approved ratings agencies are actually just an SEC-created cartel protected from competition.

Given that these agencies were protected from free competition by government, it can easily be objected that these agencies would not want to create political waves by rocking the mortgage boat, endangering a potential loss of their protected profits. Given the Federal Reserve's statement that the investments were sound, and government policy and rhetoric encouraging such policies, these agencies may have lost their status had they rocked that boat.

For the same reason, the US government is rated higher than it should be. It makes no sense to embarrass the hand that feeds you.

The private sector NEVER OBJECTED to those ratings.
Government was involved but $$$$$ driven by the private sector was the motivation.
No one twisted anyone's arm and forced them to take out a mortgage at the point of a gun.
It is our fault, not the government.
 

ScienceRocks

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I support S&P in their downgrade. However ...

In fact we're worst off then Greece that has a CC rating.

This is completely wrong. We are not worse off than Greece. Greek interest rates are trading as much as 17% higher than American interest rates. I read somewhere that of the 126 countries rated, Greece ranks 126th.

Plus, America can print money endlessly. Greece cannot. We can inflate away our debt. Greece cannot. That isn't a good thing, of course, but its far different than Greece, which is caught in a hopeless deflationary spiral of which it cannot get out without default and exit from the euro.



Can't printing money at this scale led to a Wiemar republic(Zimbabwe) hyperinflation?
 
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Soggy in NOLA

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Americans are not very smart these days but I believe they are starting to come around.
T Party leveraged the fact that the news was before the debt deal that the credit rating would be downgraded by Stand and Poors. No problem with that as that is politics.
But anyone, including members of the T Party, that believes that has any credibility whatsoever is ignorant.
Folks, Standard and Poors are the same clowns that gave AAA ratings to all of those bundled mortgages that were toxic loans from the start and they also gave an A rating to Lehman Brothers, the company that filed the largest bankruptcy in American history.
Yes, most Americans do no research whatsoever and will jump on any bandwagon with a seat be it socialist, liberal, far right, religous right or T Party ideologue gone whacky.
However, my bet is that this will be good for the T Party long term. I fully support their core beliefs. If anything, this will awaken their base and continue to weed out the kooks in their midst which EVERY political entity, namely Democrat and Republican, always have.

Awwww Americans were never really that smart to begin with and I don't see a large majority coming around. The rapid rise of the Tea-mmmm-folks is a testement to that. They are mostly led arround by their TV's and sound bytes.

The raising of the debt ceiling should never have made part of the deficit reduction negotiations. That is the reason it became political theater marked with hysteria.

We definantly need to reduce our deficit to nothing and begin to pay down the debt.

I support recending the Bush Tax cuts even if it mean raising my taxes.

I also support withdrawing as the worlds police.

I think we should end the percecution of Americans who use non-approved recreational herbs.

And this goofy screed is supposed to lead us to believe you are one of the smart ones?

Better stick to your non-approved recreational herbs.

BTW oh smarter than everybody else... the words you are searching for are definitely, rescinding and persecution.

Go do some more bong hits.

:lol:
 
Last edited:

BlindBoo

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Americans are not very smart these days but I believe they are starting to come around.
T Party leveraged the fact that the news was before the debt deal that the credit rating would be downgraded by Stand and Poors. No problem with that as that is politics.
But anyone, including members of the T Party, that believes that has any credibility whatsoever is ignorant.
Folks, Standard and Poors are the same clowns that gave AAA ratings to all of those bundled mortgages that were toxic loans from the start and they also gave an A rating to Lehman Brothers, the company that filed the largest bankruptcy in American history.
Yes, most Americans do no research whatsoever and will jump on any bandwagon with a seat be it socialist, liberal, far right, religous right or T Party ideologue gone whacky.
However, my bet is that this will be good for the T Party long term. I fully support their core beliefs. If anything, this will awaken their base and continue to weed out the kooks in their midst which EVERY political entity, namely Democrat and Republican, always have.

Awwww Americans were never really that smart to begin with and I don't see a large majority coming around. The rapid rise of the Tea-mmmm-folks is a testement to that. They are mostly led arround by their TV's and sound bytes.

The raising of the debt ceiling should never have made part of the deficit reduction negotiations. That is the reason it became political theater marked with hysteria.

We definantly need to reduce our deficit to nothing and begin to pay down the debt.

I support recending the Bush Tax cuts even if it mean raising my taxes.

I also support withdrawing as the worlds police.

I think we should end the percecution of Americans who use non-approved recreational herbs.

And this goofy screed is supposed to lead us to believe you are one of the smart ones?

Better stick to your non-approved recreational herbs.

BTW oh smarter than everybody else... the word you are searching for is rescinding and persecution.

Go do some more bong hits.

No it's just an opinion, oh spealling natzi!
 

Soggy in NOLA

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Awwww Americans were never really that smart to begin with and I don't see a large majority coming around. The rapid rise of the Tea-mmmm-folks is a testement to that. They are mostly led arround by their TV's and sound bytes.

The raising of the debt ceiling should never have made part of the deficit reduction negotiations. That is the reason it became political theater marked with hysteria.

We definantly need to reduce our deficit to nothing and begin to pay down the debt.

I support recending the Bush Tax cuts even if it mean raising my taxes.

I also support withdrawing as the worlds police.

I think we should end the percecution of Americans who use non-approved recreational herbs.

And this goofy screed is supposed to lead us to believe you are one of the smart ones?

Better stick to your non-approved recreational herbs.

BTW oh smarter than everybody else... the word you are searching for is rescinding and persecution.

Go do some more bong hits.

No it's just an opinion, oh spealling natzi!

What's a spealling natzi?
 
Last edited:

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