Zone1 Does anyone object to the use of abortion pills to terminate pregnancies before 10 weeks?

[DGS49]

To paraphrase others who have made this observation, the Left reached its "high point" on abortion with President Clinton, whose stated goal was to make abortion, "safe, legal, and rare." The rarity was because every person with a soul knows that abortion is something to be used as an absolute last resort.

But the Left went from, "safe, legal, and rare" to Casey v Planned Parenthood, which created a "constitutional" shield for all abortions up to and including the moment of live birth. (Not that that has ever been common, but that was the Left's position, and it remains so).

Most Americans would have been content with "safe, legal, and rare," had the Powers that Be gone on to make that a reality. But now it's too late, and "we" will shift in the other direction. The Leftist shit-holes will allow abortion until - and even occasionally after - the moment of live birth, while the rest of the country will work on making abortion somewhat legal and rare.

Thank you very much.

 

[Jets]

Wrong. When fathers learn that they take care of their children or they go to jail, then almost no fathers will be jailed for not caring for their children.

There will be in initial surge while the message goes out but it will stop.

Ridiculous. People who live on the streets who engage in irresponsible sex do not care about the threat of jail.

Unless people are neutered, this idea changes nothing.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Why use the term "child"?

The right only seems to care about the fetus

I sincerely wish I had a dollar for every time I have heard that pointless, leftist-indoctrinated lie.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

A fertilized egg has no limbs, no spine no head.

And yet it is fully human. science tells us so

 

[Blues Man]

I do not believe it is acceptable to take a human life "ripping it apart, limb from limb, snapping it's little head from its spine...". That's an abortion. I do not think abortion is MORAL or should be LEGAL.

There is a line we are each willing to draw: what is MORAL and what is LEGAL. What do WE think is right and what do we think the govt should regulate?

Some contraceptives will prevent a fertilized ovum from implanting, did you know that? Such as the IUD. I might be morally opposed to this but I don't think that should be legally regulated because a pregnancy hasn't been established. Pregnancy is not established at fertilized ovum. It's established when that ovum implants in the uterus.

I disagree strongly with "The only intelligent, reasonable, honest answer is no abortion except to save the life of the mother."

Here's another intelligent, reasonable, honest answer. You have a devastated and panicked 15 yo daughter in the ER who has just been raped. The ER staff is ready to give her a "morning after" pill. You're going to tell her, sorry honey, this medication will likely stop you from ovulating and prevent a pregnancy, but there's a small chance it will prevent a fertilized ovum from implanting. On that small chance, we're just going to let this rapist's fertilized ovum implant. Let's see if you're pregnant in two weeks!

YOU can make that choice, and tell your daughter that. *I* will not. Note: this is not RU 486 which expels (aborts) a known pregnancy. It's the morning-after pill I'm talking about.

Secondly, you can tell your daughter let's see if you conceive your rapist's child at 15 years old. But I think your attempts to make this LEGAL would be very, very unpopular.

Any abortion by pharmaceutical means in the first trimester is no different than a miscarriage.

 

[Coyote]

This is obviously a contentious and emotional topic for many of us. It’s rare that we allow these topics in CDZ because of the volitile nature of the subject.

But the OP is carefully constructed and narrowly defined, and MarathonMike has made a valiant effort to keep it on track and civil PLEASE RESPECT THAT. Go back to post #1 if you need to.

Short posts that violate CDZ standards have been removed, longer posts edited to comply with CDZ but still retain the argument.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Whatever our positions on Roe vs. Wade, the vast majority of Americans understand that THIS is sick, extremist, reactionary authoritarianism:

woodwork201 said:
“Why would we care if a woman dies in the process of murdering her unborn child? I'd be quite happy to help them die. Sell rusty coat hangers.. pull the lever on the gallows, pull the trigger in the firing squad, throw the switch on the electric chair, push the button on the gas chamber, inject the poison in the lethal injection... Of all the methods, hanging would be my favorite but I'd be happy to deliver the death penalty by any of the above.”

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Ridiculous. People who live on the streets who engage in irresponsible sex do not care about the threat of jail.

Unless people are neutered, this idea changes nothing.

So we should abolish jails?

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Any abortion by pharmaceutical means in the first trimester is no different than a miscarriage.

Miscarriage isn't intentional killing of an innocent human being

 

[Care4all]

Whatever our positions on Roe vs. Wade, the vast majority of Americans understand that THIS is sick, extremist, reactionary authoritarianism:

Yep. And it's certainly unbiblical, and not following the gospel of Jesus Christ... You can easily imagine him or her shape shifting in to a Serpent with fangs the size of Alaska, or a humanoid figure with a reptilian like beastly head, red eyes and long horns, with a three pronged pitch fork!

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

It was a good original OP, and I only wish it could have included a little poll for us to vote. Of course it is pretty clear where most of us stand!

Still, I especially appreciate those who reveal honest emotions and doubts, or just ask questions. Most of us don’t have a good idea of the “science” behind these pills and even IUDs, nor of the language and approach adopted by scientists and doctors who work in the field of embryology.

Women used to die frequently in childbirth. Scientists and medicine have expanded our lifespans and improved our lives, shown us how we can sometimes plan parenthood and even deal with “accidental pregnancies” that often occur in the real world.

But not everything can be decided by doctors and science. There are often difficult, emotional and intimate issues involved in bringing children into this world — or deciding not to.

“Be fruitful and multiply!” and “Father knows best” … are no longer sufficient or adequate rules for society, or for grown up women.

As a general rule we can say that — concerning unwanted pregnancies — it is “the woman” who knows best and must make the ultimate decision … of course hopefully with the support and understanding of her family and society.

 

[Jets]

So we should abolish jails?

Not at all.

If we are going to jail people for irresponsible breeding, they need to build more.

 

[Anathema]

To me that is the dividing line you should not cross in abortions

To me the dividing line is “Choice”.

If you made the Choice to have sex, then you made the Choice to potentially be a parent.

That’s why my one exception is for Rape. There was no Choice prior to conception in that situation.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Not at all.

If we are going to jail people for irresponsible breeding, they need to build more.

Jails do provide a deterrent but some people just never learn. "Men" who breed irresponsibly should be "fixed." Women too

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Jails do provide a deterrent but some people just never learn. "Men" who breed irresponsibly should be "fixed." Women too

After abortion #1, it can be assumed that a woman is not responsible enough to use the equipment in an adult manner. Disable it. Can't say it's as cut and dried with men, since you'd have to hunt the guy down.

 

[woodwork201]

Any abortion by pharmaceutical means in the first trimester is no different than a miscarriage.

Then poisoning your living child is no different than if they died of natural causes.

See the difference? One is without someone intentionally causing the death and one is with someone intentionally causing the death. One is murder: the one where a person intentionally, and not in self-defense, causes the death of another.

 

[woodwork201]

After abortion #1, it can be assumed that a woman is not responsible enough to use the equipment in an adult manner. Disable it. Can't say it's as cut and dried with men, since you'd have to hunt the guy down.

Hunt his ass down.

 

[woodwork201]

It was a good original OP, and I only wish it could have included a little poll for us to vote. Of course it is pretty clear where most of us stand!

Still, I especially appreciate those who reveal honest emotions and doubts, or just ask questions. Most of us don’t have a good idea of the “science” behind these pills and even IUDs, nor of the language and approach adopted by scientists and doctors who work in the field of embryology.

Women used to die frequently in childbirth. Scientists and medicine have expanded our lifespans and improved our lives, shown us how we can sometimes plan parenthood and even deal with “accidental pregnancies” that often occur in the real world.

But not everything can be decided by doctors and science. There are often difficult, emotional and intimate issues involved in bringing children into this world — or deciding not to.

“Be fruitful and multiply!” and “Father knows best” … are no longer sufficient or adequate rules for society, or for grown up women.

As a general rule we can say that — concerning unwanted pregnancies — it is “the woman” who knows best and must make the ultimate decision … of course hopefully with the support and understanding of her family and society.

There's no such thing as an accidental pregnancy.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

There's no such thing as an accidental pregnancy.

Not for an adult who is not seriously cognitively challenged.

 

[Jets]

So to sum up.

Those who are prolife do not support the position taken by the OP.