Does a LGBT person have to chose between being LGBT and being Christian?

[Moonglow]

That's what I want to know.

My own religion, Catholicism, teaches that all sexual relations, except between a man and a woman who are married, not using birth control, is sinful.

So MOST sexual stuff, including masturbation and oral sex, is sinful.

That obviously includes homosexuality as well.

I would assume most other Christian denominations have similar rules.

So a Christian church that ACCEPTS homosexuals and says YOU DON"T HAVE TO CHANGE, is not being truthful to Christian teachings.

However, the state of being homosexual is not sinful, it is only sinful to ACT ON IT.

The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuals are called to be abstinent.

Is that a teaching that any homosexual can accept?

You assholes in organized religions can't take away a person's right to have freedom of religion..No matter their sexual orientation....If Christ doesn't turn them away from his love you shany either...Get it ? You assholes were never given the power to persecute and turn people away from Jesus.

"Loving people means approving of everything they do!!!!"

Christ loves murderers and child molesters too, and doesn't turn them away. Does that mean Christians are required to shrug their shoulders at murder and child molestation and call it "an alternative lifestyle", so that halfwits like you don't scream about "hatred and bigotry"? Or should we maybe just not value your approval in the slightest because we know you're too damned dumb and amoral to matter?

YOU assholes were never given the power to redefine Christianity and rewrite the Bible. And I KNOW you were never given the respect to instruct anyone on serving God.

Maybe you need to ponder on your duality problems..

I think I'll go right ahead with discounting and mocking any "problems" perceived by the likes of you as hallucinations of a diseased mind and atrophied soul. Thanks for offering your utterly unsolicited and unvalued advice on how to be just like you, though. Should I ever wish to be a miserable excuse for a human being, I'll definitely look it up.

Don't bother I shall cast the out in an act of love...

 

[Cecilie1200]

hope not , i prefer that homosexuals are guilt ridden and consumed with dread and guilt BRook .

Everyone who is aware of sin and believes in God has some awareness of guilt and dread, homosexuals aren't the only one.

But there is no other group of sinners who is asking the church to accept not only them, but the sins they commit as well.

I don't think homosexuals have a right to demand that the church accept their sin.

They can form their own denomination that is why there are so many denominations-duh. No human can stop a gay person from wanting/having a relationship with God, his Son his concubine, unless you get put on hold...

Too bad we're not talking about humans doing anything. Yet another of your "I know nothing about Christianity, but I'm going to try to preach anyway" embarrassments.

The question of "Can you do this and be a Christian?" has not one single thing to do with anything other humans say and do, genius. It's a question of "Are you still living the way God wants you to if you do this?" There's no amount of propaganda and smoke blown up people's asses that you can engage in which is going to change the fact that living a Christian life and engaging in homosexual behavior are mutually exclusive. You don't like it, take it up with God.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That's what I want to know.

My own religion, Catholicism, teaches that all sexual relations, except between a man and a woman who are married, not using birth control, is sinful.

So MOST sexual stuff, including masturbation and oral sex, is sinful.

That obviously includes homosexuality as well.

I would assume most other Christian denominations have similar rules.

So a Christian church that ACCEPTS homosexuals and says YOU DON"T HAVE TO CHANGE, is not being truthful to Christian teachings.

However, the state of being homosexual is not sinful, it is only sinful to ACT ON IT.

The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuals are called to be abstinent.

Is that a teaching that any homosexual can accept?

You assholes in organized religions can't take away a person's right to have freedom of religion..No matter their sexual orientation....If Christ doesn't turn them away from his love you shany either...Get it ? You assholes were never given the power to persecute and turn people away from Jesus.

"Loving people means approving of everything they do!!!!"

Christ loves murderers and child molesters too, and doesn't turn them away. Does that mean Christians are required to shrug their shoulders at murder and child molestation and call it "an alternative lifestyle", so that halfwits like you don't scream about "hatred and bigotry"? Or should we maybe just not value your approval in the slightest because we know you're too damned dumb and amoral to matter?

YOU assholes were never given the power to redefine Christianity and rewrite the Bible. And I KNOW you were never given the respect to instruct anyone on serving God.

Maybe you need to ponder on your duality problems..

I think I'll go right ahead with discounting and mocking any "problems" perceived by the likes of you as hallucinations of a diseased mind and atrophied soul. Thanks for offering your utterly unsolicited and unvalued advice on how to be just like you, though. Should I ever wish to be a miserable excuse for a human being, I'll definitely look it up.

Don't bother I shall cast the out in an act of love...

I just heard, "I will refuse to ever hear any opinion but my own, and make excuses for why echo chambers are good."

 

[Blackrook]

What I find interesting who say that I "hate" or I am a "bigot" because I say that it is a sin to engage in homosexual behavior. How is that hate? How am I being a bigot? I don't understand this way of thinking.

 

[pismoe]

What I find interesting who say that I "hate" or I am a "bigot" because I say that it is a sin to engage in homosexual behavior. How is that hate? How am I being a bigot? I don't understand this way of thinking.

----------------------------------------------- i agree with you but i think its the rather New , maybe 50 year old 'kristianity' and MIGHT include new or current Catholic teaching . You'd have to ask the 'pope' BRook .

 

[SweetSue92]

That's what I want to know.

My own religion, Catholicism, teaches that all sexual relations, except between a man and a woman who are married, not using birth control, is sinful.

So MOST sexual stuff, including masturbation and oral sex, is sinful.

That obviously includes homosexuality as well.

I would assume most other Christian denominations have similar rules.

So a Christian church that ACCEPTS homosexuals and says YOU DON"T HAVE TO CHANGE, is not being truthful to Christian teachings.

However, the state of being homosexual is not sinful, it is only sinful to ACT ON IT.

The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuals are called to be abstinent.

Is that a teaching that any homosexual can accept?

Your faith made up all that stuff about birth control. But they make up a lot of stuff that's not really in the Bible, example Purgatory. But that's another topic for another thread.

Agreed about homosexuality. Having the urges/temptation is not what's sinful. We are all tempted. It's acting on them or worse, calling sin "good", that is sinful.

 

[SweetSue92]

Yes; everyone that chokes the chicken is going to Hell. I read that.

Not everyone who sins goes to hell. That was YOU who said that, and it was a stupid thing to say.

Perhaps you are not equipped mentally to have a serious discussion.

Everyone whose sin is not atoned for will go to Hell.

 

[SweetSue92]

That's what I want to know.

My own religion, Catholicism, teaches that all sexual relations, except between a man and a woman who are married, not using birth control, is sinful.

So MOST sexual stuff, including masturbation and oral sex, is sinful.

That obviously includes homosexuality as well.

I would assume most other Christian denominations have similar rules.

So a Christian church that ACCEPTS homosexuals and says YOU DON"T HAVE TO CHANGE, is not being truthful to Christian teachings.

However, the state of being homosexual is not sinful, it is only sinful to ACT ON IT.

The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuals are called to be abstinent.

Is that a teaching that any homosexual can accept?

The Bible directs men to not "spill" their seed so, according to The Bible masturbation is a sin.

Jus' sayin' ..........

If you jack off then according to Jesus you are going to Hell; oops ...........

That's right, masturbation is a sin. I already said it, did you bother to read the OP?

Also not in the Bible. Lust is a sin and that is covered comprehensively. So if you can manage to do the former without the latter...well...there it is.

 

[SweetSue92]

The ideal is a life totally without sin, which is unacheivable. The best we can hope for is to live in a state of grace, which means our sins are not so serious as to be mortal sins, and if we do have mortal sin, we repent them (through confession if you're Catholic) so that we are once again in a state of grace.

There is no way to live an open, declared homosexual lifestyle and be in state of grace, because a person doing that is declaring that he will not repent of his sins.

Mortal sins are also not in the Bible at all. I bet you didn't even know that, which is really sad. I mean that sincerely. It's sad.

 

[SweetSue92]

That's what I want to know.

My own religion, Catholicism, teaches that all sexual relations, except between a man and a woman who are married, not using birth control, is sinful.

So MOST sexual stuff, including masturbation and oral sex, is sinful.

That obviously includes homosexuality as well.

I would assume most other Christian denominations have similar rules.

So a Christian church that ACCEPTS homosexuals and says YOU DON"T HAVE TO CHANGE, is not being truthful to Christian teachings.

However, the state of being homosexual is not sinful, it is only sinful to ACT ON IT.

The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuals are called to be abstinent.

Is that a teaching that any homosexual can accept?

Since there is no earthly one stop shop for what is Christian and what is not, it all depends on the actual Church in question.

The only being that that can answer it definitely can't be reached for comment.

Jesus Christ is the one-stop shop. He gets the final say, actually. No pastors, ministers or popes do. On that you can depend.

 

[SweetSue92]

That's what I want to know.

My own religion, Catholicism, teaches that all sexual relations, except between a man and a woman who are married, not using birth control, is sinful.

So MOST sexual stuff, including masturbation and oral sex, is sinful.

That obviously includes homosexuality as well.

I would assume most other Christian denominations have similar rules.

So a Christian church that ACCEPTS homosexuals and says YOU DON"T HAVE TO CHANGE, is not being truthful to Christian teachings.

However, the state of being homosexual is not sinful, it is only sinful to ACT ON IT.

The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuals are called to be abstinent.

Is that a teaching that any homosexual can accept?

You assholes in organized religions can't take away a person's right to have freedom of religion..No matter their sexual orientation....If Christ doesn't turn them away from his love you shany either...Get it ? You assholes were never given the power to persecute and turn people away from Jesus.

What's really funny is that we believe some things and preach them and suddenly we want "power". Meanwhile the doxxing of these Catholic boys goes on, the stories are all lies, etc, everyone just shrugs. Christians preach = POWER HUNGRY JERKS!!! Boys are doxxed and publicly derided = oh well

But so many people are aware of your loser tactics now that it's too late to turn back. You're all exposed

 

[RodISHI]

That's what I want to know.

My own religion, Catholicism, teaches that all sexual relations, except between a man and a woman who are married, not using birth control, is sinful.

So MOST sexual stuff, including masturbation and oral sex, is sinful.

That obviously includes homosexuality as well.

I would assume most other Christian denominations have similar rules.

So a Christian church that ACCEPTS homosexuals and says YOU DON"T HAVE TO CHANGE, is not being truthful to Christian teachings.Edit

However, the state of being homosexual is not sinful, it is only sinful to ACT ON IT.

The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuals are called to be abstinent.

Is that a teaching that any homosexual can accept?

The Bible directs men to not "spill" their seed so, according to The Bible masturbation is a sin.

Jus' sayin' ..........

If you jack off then according to Jesus you are going to Hell; oops ...........

I respectfully disagree.

Most people who claim that masturbation is a Biblical sin rely on a few verses in the Book of Genesis. Here is what the Bible says:

“And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him. And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. And the thing which he did displeased the Lord: wherefore he slew him also” (Genesis 38:7-10, KJV).

While some Bible readers believe the quoted verses prove masturbation is a deadly sin, others do not. It has been my experience that most Christians believe that Onan was killed solely because he refused to impregnate his dead brothers wife, not because his sperm was “wasted.” Here is a fairly good description on how most Christians interpret the quoted verses:

“Why did God kill Onan for spilling his seed on the ground? The reason God did this is not because Onan wasted his seed on the ground, but because Onan refused to perform his familial duties of producing offspring for his brother's. This was a great offense at the time. Now, we must realize that the culture was very different than ours is today. In that culture, when a man died and left no children, the next of kin was sometimes obligated to "go in to" the wife and produce children. These children were then considered to be the descendants of the original late husband and would be raised as such. This way, the offspring would be able to take care of the mother, provide more people for the community, and thereby raise their own children, continuing the name of that family. Onan knew this and refused to take part in furthering the honor and name of the brother's wife and thereby also risking provision for her in the future. To this, God was very displeased and took Onan's life.”

Why did God kill a man for spilling his seed on the ground? | CARM.org

This interpretation is much more reasonable considering that it is physically impossible for a normal healthy man to waste his seed. Assuming that Onan was a typical male, his sperm is constantly replenished (1,500 per second) as seed is used and old unused seed dies in the body. A single ejaculation does not “drain the bank.” Many men have been know to have multiple ejaculations during a single sexual encounter and many more have been able to have sex (including ejaculations) more than once in a single day. I'm an old man now (79) and I can only say, ah yes, I remember it well.

CONCLUSION: There is nothing in the Bible that clearly states masturbation is a sin. Geneses 38:7-10 does not condemn masturbation. Onan was killed solely because he would not impregnate his deceased brother's childless wife as the law required.

Note: There are also verses in Leviticus 15 which is sometimes, though rarely, used to prove masturbation is a sin (although not a serious one). I have avoided discussing this Book because the it would take too much of my time and time is a commodity that is precious at my age. Almost all my commentary on the USMB about the Bible has been cut-and-paste from articles I have written over the years. I had not previously written about Leviticus 15 in detail and being a very poor typist I do not want to do it now. I might change my mind if others make this Book an issue.

Hey, wow, a tangent!

Pretty sure the thread is not about "is masturbation a sin or not?" Feel free to go start one like that, if you have a burning desire to drivel on about it.

Black can correct me if he wishes, but I believe the actual point of this thread is, "Being expected to resist and abstain from desires is common to Christianity, so why not homosexuality?"

To a person of at least average intelligence the thread went in that direction. My response was to a very specific post dealing with masturbation. Sadly, the subject matter of my response went way over your head. Your reading and cognitive abilities are sorely lacking.

You have the last word. I have no time to waste on fools like you.

I was going to say it will go right over their heads but you already got there. I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts on the issue and I am sure there are others that do also.

 

[Picaro]

That's what I want to know.

My own religion, Catholicism, teaches that all sexual relations, except between a man and a woman who are married, not using birth control, is sinful.

So MOST sexual stuff, including masturbation and oral sex, is sinful.

That obviously includes homosexuality as well.

I would assume most other Christian denominations have similar rules.

So a Christian church that ACCEPTS homosexuals and says YOU DON"T HAVE TO CHANGE, is not being truthful to Christian teachings.

However, the state of being homosexual is not sinful, it is only sinful to ACT ON IT.

The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuals are called to be abstinent.

Is that a teaching that any homosexual can accept?

As a nasty neurotic fetish practiced by mentally ill deviants, they're unable to can't make such choices. They're a public health menace and a menace to children, particularly boys, to boot. One can't expect sick people to make moral and/or rational choices.

 

[JoeB131]

Good to see you again, Joe. I could address that portion of the story as well...but the original point of the author wouldn't interest you; I've learned you are quite satisfied with points created out of modern American culture. I'll leave you to it.

Yes, I've learned values from a modern, compassionate liberal society, not the backward ass barbarism of the Bronze Age.

The thing is, the story of Tamar is kind of fucked up. God kills both of her husbands for...well, reasons.. and she has to dress up like a harlot to get knocked up by her father in law. the only thing missing was Jerry Springer.

Why don't we ever see a Bible Movie about this story? I mean, if it had a "deeper meaning", we should see it.

frankly, I would love to produce a movie with this story, Jephthah, Elisha and the Bears... a few others, with graphic detail.

you know, instead of the Disney version of the bible you guys like.

 

[JoeB131]

What I find interesting who say that I "hate" or I am a "bigot" because I say that it is a sin to engage in homosexual behavior. How is that hate? How am I being a bigot? I don't understand this way of thinking.

That's kind of on you buddy.

Let me make it simple for you. What arguments do you have against OTHER PEOPLE having homosexual relationships that do not involve "I think it's icky' and "God says it's bad!"

Because those are lame arguments. Straight people do all sorts of icky stuff in bed, too. And there's a whole bunch of shit in the bible that God says not to do that you probably do all the time. - eating pork and shrimp, working on Sunday, wearing clothing with mixed blends.

So when you scream about "sin', yeah, most of us just see it for what it is.. hate.

 

[JoeB131]

Jesus Christ is the one-stop shop. He gets the final say, actually. No pastors, ministers or popes do. On that you can depend.

Jesus never existed, and most "Christians" ignore the things that were attributed to him.

 

[Lysistrata]

There is no reason for anyone to make this phony "choice". As someone who was baptized into this organization, I am so happy to be free of it. Evangicalicals, etc., get lost.

 

[SweetSue92]

Good to see you again, Joe. I could address that portion of the story as well...but the original point of the author wouldn't interest you; I've learned you are quite satisfied with points created out of modern American culture. I'll leave you to it.

Yes, I've learned values from a modern, compassionate liberal society, not the backward ass barbarism of the Bronze Age.

The thing is, the story of Tamar is kind of fucked up. God kills both of her husbands for...well, reasons.. and she has to dress up like a harlot to get knocked up by her father in law. the only thing missing was Jerry Springer.

Why don't we ever see a Bible Movie about this story? I mean, if it had a "deeper meaning", we should see it.

frankly, I would love to produce a movie with this story, Jephthah, Elisha and the Bears... a few others, with graphic detail.

you know, instead of the Disney version of the bible you guys like.

You're such a fussy old Puritan, Joe

 

[SweetSue92]

There is no reason for anyone to make this phony "choice". As someone who was baptized into this organization, I am so happy to be free of it. Evangicalicals, etc., get lost.

Sorry, no. And the way things are going, Trump might just win in 2020. You're welcome.

 

[BookShaka]

That's what I want to know.

My own religion, Catholicism, teaches that all sexual relations, except between a man and a woman who are married, not using birth control, is sinful.

So MOST sexual stuff, including masturbation and oral sex, is sinful.

That obviously includes homosexuality as well.

I would assume most other Christian denominations have similar rules.

So a Christian church that ACCEPTS homosexuals and says YOU DON"T HAVE TO CHANGE, is not being truthful to Christian teachings.

However, the state of being homosexual is not sinful, it is only sinful to ACT ON IT.

The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuals are called to be abstinent.

Is that a teaching that any homosexual can accept?

I’m bisexual and no one is forcing me to choose... perhaps that’s bc I keep it to myself and I’m not Catholic so I’m not made to confess my sins.

I truly can’t help it that I’m attracted to both sexes. I’m married and don’t act on it and that is all that should matter. I guess I’ll learn when I die whether or not God forgives me.

People "can't help" a lot of things. What's your point?

My point is God made me as I am. What’s your point?

That pedophiles make the same point. So do people with sex addictions and a variety of mental problems. In fact, every human being on the planet who has an inclination to do things they should not do - in other words, every human being on the planet - can rightly say that God made them that way. That does not absolve us from the responsibility to follow God's law when it contradicts our urges. In fact, if God's law us did NOT contradict our urges, there would be no reason for Him to give us His law in the first place.

In a world where every human who lives and ever has lived has been flawed and in need of improvement, I remain unimpressed by "I was born this way, so it must be okay."

I never said “it must be okay.” I said once I’m dead I’ll know how “okay” it is.