Do you approve or disapprove of Joe Biden's performance on Afghanistan?

[U2Edge]

I didn't care much about what you wrote. We're pulling out; there is nothing to win over there. If you think differently... Sorry....
Here is the bottom line. The US, for it's history, does the following:

We beat the crap out of those who challenge us. Then we invite them to the negotiating table and offer generous terms and negotiate a peace agreement. That is what we do; that is what we have done. That is what we will always do. The problem is that when it comes to a fundamentalist theocratic opponent; there simply is no compromise of their beliefs so there is no negotiation. The only solution left to the US is that we come back with absolute disaster, conquest, brutal occupation. Essentially martial law for decades. Simply put (and Thank God) we don't have the stomach for it. I'm not saying we're weak or soft or anything of the sort...what I am saying is that we simply don't see the point of doing it for absolutely no tangible gain. In some ways our optimism is our biggest problem. We're hopeful that there won't be any terrorist training camps springing up next Spring. So we're okay leaving this Summer.

Well, if you considered yourself and informed person, you would pay attention to the fact that the TALIBAN were isolated to the rural areas of the country for the past 20 years. In November of 2017, they only controlled 73 districts out of 421 in Afghanistan. On April 13, 2021, the Taliban only controlled 77 districts out of 421. The Afghan government was in full control of all 34 provincial capitals, and over 80% of the districts. The status quo was stable and had been stable for over the past 6 years. The Afghan military was doing 99% of the fighting and a small NATO force was in a support role. It was working until:

BIDEN PULLED THE PLUG ON APRIL 14, 2021

The United States and NATO pulled out their troops, and a government and military force that was not YET ready to stand on its own collapsed handing Afghanistan back to the TALIBAN and creating conditions for new Terrorist attack on the United States in the future.

It is the worst decision any American President has ever made in history and it is wreaking U.S. foreign and Defense Policy around the world, because the enemies of the United States no longer believe the United States is committed to standing up to them, which will naturally invite aggression from them in the near future. The United States Allies no longer believe the United States is willing to abide by it treaty obligations. Dangerous dark times ahead while Joe Biden administration negotiates with the TALIBAN to get 5,000+ Americans out of the country. Makes the Iran Hostage Crises back in 1980 seem like a picnic.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Not that we will ever have that discussion about how the Zionists run our foreign policy, sometimes to the detriment of our interests.

I agree. Will rule the world and run the US foreign policy. That’s why we allowed the Squad to take power and consistently and constantly spread their antisemitism….

 

[candycorn]

Well, if you considered yourself and informed person, you would pay attention to the fact that the TALIBAN were isolated to the rural areas of the country for the past 20 years. In November of 2017, they only controlled 73 districts out of 421 in Afghanistan. On April 13, 2021, the Taliban only controlled 77 districts out of 421. The Afghan government was in full control of all 34 provincial capitals, and over 80% of the districts. The status quo was stable and had been stable for over the past 6 years. The Afghan military was doing 99% of the fighting and a small NATO force was in a support role. It was working until:

BIDEN PULLED THE PLUG ON APRIL 14, 2021

The United States and NATO pulled out their troops, and a government and military force that was not YET ready to stand on its own collapsed handing Afghanistan back to the TALIBAN and creating conditions for new Terrorist attack on the United States in the future.

It is the worst decision any American President has ever made in history and it is wreaking U.S. foreign and Defense Policy around the world, because the enemies of the United States no longer believe the United States is committed to standing up to them, which will naturally invite aggression from them in the near future. The United States Allies no longer believe the United States is willing to abide by it treaty obligations. Dangerous dark times ahead while Joe Biden administration negotiates with the TALIBAN to get 5,000+ Americans out of the country. Makes the Iran Hostage Crises back in 1980 seem like a picnic.

OK.

 

[JoeB131]

NOTHING is inevitable when it comes to conduct of foreign policy and defense policy.

The United States and NATO have spent years building up the Afghan government and military only to pull the rug out from under them suddenly this year. Its a disgrace, and abandonment of an ally, and will increase the probability that countries like China or Russia will challenge the United States in the years to come because they believe are WILL is WEAK!

Sweet evil Jesus on a Pogo Stick, we were over there for 20 years "building them up", and no one really thought that they could survive on their own long term.

You know what, buddy, we heard this same shit in the 1970's when Saigon fell, because those corrupt crooks couldn't stand on their own, either. And you know what happened... Um. Nothing. The dominos didn't fall, the Soviets didn't do on a whole lot of adventures...

Equally important, RICHARD CLARK, who was in charge of U.S. counter terrorism in the late 1990s says that were back to 1998 in terms of defending the country from terrorist in Afghanistan. The United States just surrendered Afghanistan to the same people that helped murder 3,000 Americans in the World Trade Towers on 9/11!

RIchard Clark was the guy Bush fired because he was kind of a self-serving asshole. These are not the same people who knocked down the towers 20 years ago, they are all dead.

Are we going to still see Terrorism? Yup. As long as we keep propping up the Zionists, sticking our nose in other people's business, and so on, we are going to still see terrorism. So what?

We see 13 times as many Americans die of gun violence every year than died on 9/11 one time.

We aren't going to make people suddenly love us by invading their countries. I think if we haven't taken than lesson away from Afghanistan and Iraq, we can expect another one of these.

In terms of fighting and dying, it was the Afghan military that was doing 99% of that the past six years. It was working to in the sense that the Taliban were held back to small number of districts in rural areas, while all 34 provincial capitals in Afghanistan were FREE of the Taliban. Then Joe Biden just decided to abandon the whole mission:

That would be fine, except most of Afghanistan's population is rural... and the fact that no one really fought all that hard for the cities tells you a lot.

FOR SALE
300,000 AFGHAN ARMY RIFLES
NEVER FIRED
ONLY DROPPED ONCE

 

[JoeB131]

I agree. Will rule the world and run the US foreign policy. That’s why we allowed the Squad to take power and consistently and constantly spread their antisemitism….

You are kind of making my point. You have a whopping four Congresskritters who are critical of the Zionist Entity, and you guys go apeshit, spend a shitload of money trying to defeat them in primaries.

 

[JoeB131]

Well, if you considered yourself and informed person, you would pay attention to the fact that the TALIBAN were isolated to the rural areas of the country for the past 20 years. In November of 2017, they only controlled 73 districts out of 421 in Afghanistan. On April 13, 2021, the Taliban only controlled 77 districts out of 421. The Afghan government was in full control of all 34 provincial capitals, and over 80% of the districts. The status quo was stable and had been stable for over the past 6 years. The Afghan military was doing 99% of the fighting and a small NATO force was in a support role. It was working until:

BIDEN PULLED THE PLUG ON APRIL 14, 2021

The United States and NATO pulled out their troops, and a government and military force that was not YET ready to stand on its own collapsed handing Afghanistan back to the TALIBAN and creating conditions for new Terrorist attack on the United States in the future.

THEY HAVE HAD 20 YEARS TO GET READY.

We are sending troops over there who weren't even BORN yet when this thing started.

No, it wasn't working. We were just inflicting massive misery on that country so that no one would have to say, "Who Lost Afghanistan", instead of admitting it was never ours to start with.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Well we know one thing.... there are 15 mindless rubes in this thread.
Holy Cow

 

[U2Edge]

THEY HAVE HAD 20 YEARS TO GET READY.

We are sending troops over there who weren't even BORN yet when this thing started.

No, it wasn't working. We were just inflicting massive misery on that country so that no one would have to say, "Who Lost Afghanistan", instead of admitting it was never ours to start with.

Sorry, but there is nothing magical about 20 years. It makes for a great bumper sticker slogan, but it does not take into account the history, and complexity of what is going in a country like Afghanistan. Many of today's Taliban were not born yet or were only little children 20 years ago. Does not mean the United States should not defend or citizens and security around the world form them.

In terms of a time clock, you can't really start to judge the Afghan military until 2015. Prior to that time, their numbers were too small, and they were not leading the fight or as well trained. The Afghan military is dependent on the United States for many things which is why it collapsed when Biden pulled the plug.

It was WORKING for the following reasons:

1. NATO was able to withdraw from a peak troop deployment of 130,000 down to 10,000 troops over the past several years without the Taliban being able to take ANY significant territory. THAT IS JUST INDISPUTABLE FACT!

2. The Afghan military was doing most of the fighting from 2015 onward, over 99% in fact.

3. Its not really accurate to say that the United States and its Allies were stuck in a grinding war with heavy casualties every week. The reality is that NATO was in and ADVISE and ASSIST role in Afghanistan, helping the Afghans do 99% of the fighting.

4. Afghan standard of living has risen substantially since the Taliban were kicked out of Power in 2001. In fact, according to the UN Human Development Index, not other country made more improvement in their standard of living over the past 20 years than Afghanistan.

5. The United States was spending a tiny fraction per year on Afghanistan compared to what it was spending on Afghanistan back in 2009-2012 period of time.

6. The first generation of Afghan Women born since 9/11 were starting to graduate High School and go to College. Soon after many would be starting families and raising the next generation of Afghans that would have no interest in Taliban beliefs and culture.

7. 60% of the Student Body at University in the City of Herat were female as of this spring. That is better female representation at College than many Universities in the United States.

8. The past 20 years in Afghanistan has been a victory for human rights especially WOMEN'S RIGHT'S!

9. The past 20 years in Afghanistan has prevented there from being any 9/11 scale terrorist attacks on the United States.

10. U.S. troops on the ground with a friendly Ally in the Afghan government and military meant great intelligence on possible Al Qaeda, ISIS or Taliban terrorist, and allowed the United States to better target those threats than the United States would be able to if there were no troops on the ground and the United States did not have friendly government in Afghanistan to work with.

 

[U2Edge]

Sweet evil Jesus on a Pogo Stick, we were over there for 20 years "building them up", and no one really thought that they could survive on their own long term.

You know what, buddy, we heard this same shit in the 1970's when Saigon fell, because those corrupt crooks couldn't stand on their own, either. And you know what happened... Um. Nothing. The dominos didn't fall, the Soviets didn't do on a whole lot of adventures...



RIchard Clark was the guy Bush fired because he was kind of a self-serving asshole. These are not the same people who knocked down the towers 20 years ago, they are all dead.

Are we going to still see Terrorism? Yup. As long as we keep propping up the Zionists, sticking our nose in other people's business, and so on, we are going to still see terrorism. So what?

We see 13 times as many Americans die of gun violence every year than died on 9/11 one time.

We aren't going to make people suddenly love us by invading their countries. I think if we haven't taken than lesson away from Afghanistan and Iraq, we can expect another one of these.



That would be fine, except most of Afghanistan's population is rural... and the fact that no one really fought all that hard for the cities tells you a lot.

FOR SALE
300,000 AFGHAN ARMY RIFLES
NEVER FIRED
ONLY DROPPED ONCE

Again, there is nothing magical about 20 years. Developing Afghanistan was process that take a long time. The important thing is that huge progress was being made. Recovery takes time, and if the patient is not ready yet, you can't just throw them overboard and expect them to sink or swim.

In the early 1970s, especially 1972, the South Vietnamese military proved it was a much stronger fighting force than it was in 1965. The South Vietnamese Military did most of the ground fighting in 1972 and defeated the North Vietnamese Easter offensive that year with the help of U.S. Advisors and U.S. Airpower. Had the United States kept a small commitment of troops on the ground to continue to advise, supply and assist the South Vietnamese military, South Vietnam would still be a country today, and would likely be as prosperous and democratic as South Korea. Sadly, in 1973, the U.S. congress took away the U.S. President's ability to conduct the war, by passing the CASE CHURCH Amendment which cut off any further funds for U.S. military involvement in South Vietnam. It was passed in June 1973 and came into effect on August 15, 1973. After that, the U.S. congress started cutting funds to the South Vietnamese Government and Military. By 1975, the South Vietnamese military had been weakened by the cut backs and did not have the fuel or ammo to face a new massive North Vietnamese Offensive, stockpiled with brand new weapons from the Soviet Union and China.

The U.S. abandonment of South Vietnam in 1973-1975 period was the worst disgrace in United States history until Biden's decision to Abandon Afghanistan this year.

As far as the dominos, they did fall, but not only in the sense of Communist advancement and take over's around the world, but also in the willingness of leaders like SADDAM and terrorist in the Middle East, to challenge the United States. When people perceive your WEAK and won't fight, they will challenge you. Laos and Cambodia fell to the Communist. Communist insurgencies in Africa and Central America grew. The Soviet Union achieved Nuclear Parity with the United States, and serious imbalance in NATO's ability to defend Europe from a Soviet/Warsaw Pact attack was starting to happen. Luckily, Reagan was elected President and reversed U.S. military and diplomatic decline around the world. The United States was also able to peal off China from the Soviets which also bought the United States and NATO more time. Finally, the Soviet Union and it allies collapsed in the early 1990s.

But lessons SADDAM learned from Vietnam was the United States was weak, unwilling to suffer significant casualties and fight. This is part of what led him to challenge United States National Security interest by invading and annexing Kuwait in August of 1990. SADDAM doubted the United States had the will to stop him, and even if the United States tried, as long as he inflicted enough casualties on the United States, they would turn tail and run. SADDAM would often boast that the United States left Vietnam after losing 50,000 dead, while he had lost 50,000 dead in one battle with Iran during the war. The United States abandonment of South Vietnam in 1973-1975 continues to cause a lot of the problems that the United States faces today, in terms of its credibility, commitment to Allies and Defense treaties, and the willingness to fight and take casualties for United States interest around the world. The United States has spent the past 50 years reversing the harm that the abandonment of South Vietnam did to U.S. credibility, and sadly, JOE BIDEN has reversed much of what had been accomplished in rebuilding U.S. credibility with his abandonment of Afghanistan to the Taliban.


As we approach the 20th anniversary of 9/11, the people that attacked us on 9/11 are back in power now in Afghanistan THANKS TO JOE BIDEN.


If JOE BIDEN had just kept the 10,000 NATO strong force that was there at the Start of April 2021, the situation in Afghanistan would be no different than it was in 2020. There would be NO CRISES with 5,000 Americans potentially becoming hostages of the TALIBAN or worse being executed. 2021 would have seen the Taliban continued to be isolated to rural areas of Afghanistan with no control or influence on most of daily Afghan life. All 34 provincial capitals in Afghanistan would still be controlled by the Afghan Government.

 

[JoeB131]

Let's dissect this bullshit sandwich.

Sorry, but there is nothing magical about 20 years. It makes for a great bumper sticker slogan, but it does not take into account the history, and complexity of what is going in a country like Afghanistan. Many of today's Taliban were not born yet or were only little children 20 years ago. Does not mean the United States should not defend or citizens and security around the world form them.

NO, it means that you take a long hard look at the value. Hey, if it were up to me, everyone in the world should live like Americans. But the world isn't populated by Americans. Not everyone wants to be an American. Not everyone shares American values.

The fact that the Taliban was still a vibrant military and political force in Afghanistan 20 years after our invasion should tell you a lot about how we misjudged that society.

If we were still worried about the Nazis coming back into power in Germany in the 1960's, I would have called that a failure as well. Of course, by 1965, Germans realized that the Nazis were in the wrong and there just wasn't a lot of sympathy for Onkel Hans who keeps his SS Uniform in the attic.

In terms of a time clock, you can't really start to judge the Afghan military until 2015. Prior to that time, their numbers were too small, and they were not leading the fight or as well trained. The Afghan military is dependent on the United States for many things which is why it collapsed when Biden pulled the plug.

Actually, I put the clock at 2009, when Karzai stole the election. That was when it should have been abundantly clear to everyone that they were never going to be able to form a legitimate government, and that he and his associate were nothing more than American Quislings.

1. NATO was able to withdraw from a peak troop deployment of 130,000 down to 10,000 troops over the past several years without the Taliban being able to take ANY significant territory. THAT IS JUST INDISPUTABLE FACT!

They didn't need to. The untold story was how the local tribal leaders had reached accommodations with the Taliban, allowing them to move freely and take very few casualties in the process. Not surprisingly, these were the same tribal leaders who flipped to the Taliban without even token resistance.

2. The Afghan military was doing most of the fighting from 2015 onward, over 99% in fact.
3. Its not really accurate to say that the United States and its Allies were stuck in a grinding war with heavy casualties every week. The reality is that NATO was in and ADVISE and ASSIST role in Afghanistan, helping the Afghans do 99% of the fighting.

But they weren't doing the fighting. Now, you guys make a big deal out of 70K Afghan Quislings dying in the 20 years or war... Um, so what? In Vietnam, 313,000 Vietnamese died fighting for the RVN, but at the end of the day, most of them weren't willing to keep fighting a losing war for a corrupt government.

Now, there have been plenty of successful examples of COIN operations where the locals took up the fight and won. But that actually involved the will to win, which the Afghans clearly didn't have.

4. Afghan standard of living has risen substantially since the Taliban were kicked out of Power in 2001. In fact, according to the UN Human Development Index, not other country made more improvement in their standard of living over the past 20 years than Afghanistan.

Well, holy shit, I would hope that after pumping 2 TRILLION dollars into the country over 20 years, their standard of living would have gone up. I wish we had spent 2 Trillion dollars in this country on infrastructure or education.

5. The United States was spending a tiny fraction per year on Afghanistan compared to what it was spending on Afghanistan back in 2009-2012 period of time.

Throwing good money after bad is still throwing away money.

6. The first generation of Afghan Women born since 9/11 were starting to graduate High School and go to College. Soon after many would be starting families and raising the next generation of Afghans that would have no interest in Taliban beliefs and culture.

Again, works on the assumption that Afghanistan wanted to be a mini-me America.

7. 60% of the Student Body at University in the City of Herat were female as of this spring. That is better female representation at College than many Universities in the United States.
8. The past 20 years in Afghanistan has been a victory for human rights especially WOMEN'S RIGHT'S!

Awesome... Who cares? Clearly, not what the people of Afghanistan wanted.

9. The past 20 years in Afghanistan has prevented there from being any 9/11 scale terrorist attacks on the United States.

10. U.S. troops on the ground with a friendly Ally in the Afghan government and military meant great intelligence on possible Al Qaeda, ISIS or Taliban terrorist, and allowed the United States to better target those threats than the United States would be able to if there were no troops on the ground and the United States did not have friendly government in Afghanistan to work with.

Oh, I'm totally calling shenanigan's on this one. The reason why we didn't have another 9/11 attack is we started taking internal security seriously. Not because the guys who were double dealing us with the Taliban every minute of the war were "helping" us all that much.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

You are kind of making my point. You have a whopping four Congresskritters who are critical of the Zionist Entity, and you guys go apeshit, spend a shitload of money trying to defeat them in primaries.

Those four have the loudest voices. Even Pelosi is reticent to cross them.

 

[Faun]

Those four have the loudest voices. Even Pelosi is reticent to cross them.

No, ShortBus, they don't have the loudest voices. You hear them the loudest.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

No, ShortBus, they don't have the loudest voices. You hear them the loudest.

Agree to disagree OCD ridden fat fuck. And you had to change your avatar.

 

[talksalot]

What war? Were we at war with Afghanistan?

 

[JoeB131]

Those four have the loudest voices. Even Pelosi is reticent to cross them.

So what major legislation have they passed? Oh, that's right. None.

The only thing that upsets you is that four members of Congress are daring to question our blind and mindless support of Israel...

Just four?

Holy shit, what's wrong with that picture?

 

[Faun]

Agree to disagree OCD ridden fat fuck. And you had to change your avatar.

LOL

Nah, I didn't have to change it. I just got bored with it. But thanks for noticing.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

So what major legislation have they passed? Oh, that's right. None.

The only thing that upsets you is that four members of Congress are daring to question our blind and mindless support of Israel...

Just four?

Holy shit, what's wrong with that picture?

How many combined social media followers do they have?

 

[Indeependent]

Not that we will ever have that discussion about how the Zionists run our foreign policy, sometimes to the detriment of our interests.

Yet you still have an Internet connection.
Why don't Christians allow Christians to run their corporations?

 

[Indeependent]

So what major legislation have they passed? Oh, that's right. None.

The only thing that upsets you is that four members of Congress are daring to question our blind and mindless support of Israel...

Just four?

Holy shit, what's wrong with that picture?

Yep, because the Muslim is so civilized...yep!

 

[XponentialChaos]

In the long run it’s good that we got out. I read a report on Forbes showing how much money we spent on that mess. Not to mention all the lives lost. What a waste.

But I have to believe that could have been done better.