Did the framers have expectations of the citizenry

Mr.Fitnah

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It is not a logical fallacy to look to the founders to understand the Constitution And what kind of people we are expected to be as citizens .

They are the authority .

It would be a logical fallacy to look to Barack Obama or George Bush as authorities on anything but progressivism.

"They are the authority." "what kind of people we are expected to be" :lol:

Are they the authority today? They gave us the amendments process. Their authority dictated slaves as one fifth(?) of a person.

what kind of people we are to be is our choice...we are not expected to fall in line, we are free people's

:evil::evil::evil:


People like FittieBoy, need a lesson in reality.
Anyone have any proof of the framers opinion on this?
I have plenty I just prefer not to deal with Maws.
 

jillian

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Anyone have any proof of the framers opinion on this?
I have plenty I just prefer not to deal with Maws.
Why do we care?

The framers' opinions were that women shouldn't vote and only landed gentry should... that slaves were legal and each was 3/5 of a person.

The people we are now are the people we are now.

Thankfully we've evolved.
 

Modbert

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Why do we care?

The framers' opinions were that women shouldn't vote and only landed gentry should... that slaves were legal and each was 3/5 of a person.

The people we are now are the people we are now.

Thankfully we've evolved.
And that's exactly how some people want this country today. Quite sad, isn't it? I wonder if the OP does. :eusa_think:
 

SFC Ollie

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Anyone have any proof of the framers opinion on this?
I have plenty I just prefer not to deal with Maws.
Why do we care?

The framers' opinions were that women shouldn't vote and only landed gentry should... that slaves were legal and each was 3/5 of a person.

The people we are now are the people we are now.

Thankfully we've evolved.
Thankfully they did leave us with the methods needed to make corrections. And yes we have evolved and continue to do so. Sometimes not always for the good. But Generally I think we've done better than anyone in 1776 could have dreamed of.
 
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Mr.Fitnah

Mr.Fitnah

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Anyone have any proof of the framers opinion on this?
I have plenty I just prefer not to deal with Maws.
Why do we care?

The framers' opinions were that women shouldn't vote and only landed gentry should... that slaves were legal and each was 3/5 of a person.

The people we are now are the people we are now.

Thankfully we've evolved.
Had they not had the 3/5 in there, the south would have been able to over whelm representation and codified slavery forever.
It was a purposeful move to allow slavery to be ended in time.
 

Modbert

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Had they not had the 3/5 in there, the south would have been able to over whelm representation and codified slavery forever.
It was a purposeful move to allow slavery to be ended in time.
Or, they could of gotten rid of slavery. However, more than one founder happened to own slaves. :eusa_whistle:
 

Terry

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Our Framers I believe trusted the citizenry to have a SELF RESPONSIBILITY not government responsibility.
 
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Mr.Fitnah

Mr.Fitnah

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Had they not had the 3/5 in there, the south would have been able to over whelm representation and codified slavery forever.
It was a purposeful move to allow slavery to be ended in time.
Or, they could of gotten rid of slavery. However, more than one founder happened to own slaves. :eusa_whistle:
Im fairly certain that is the extent of what is taught in school about the framers and the creation of the country.
 

Modbert

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Im fairly certain that is the extent of what is taught in school about the framers and the creation of the country.
Nope. I know plenty about the framers. I do know they would probably be horrified by your worship of them though. Goodness knows you ignore how much people like Adams used the Constitution as a kleenex.
 

Avatar4321

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Anyone have any proof of the framers opinion on this?
I have plenty I just prefer not to deal with Maws.
Why do we care?

The framers' opinions were that women shouldn't vote and only landed gentry should... that slaves were legal and each was 3/5 of a person.

The people we are now are the people we are now.

Thankfully we've evolved.
What evidence do you have that "we've evolved"?

And the put the 3/5ths provision in the Constitution to limit the power of slave states so the practice could die out.
 

Avatar4321

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Had they not had the 3/5 in there, the south would have been able to over whelm representation and codified slavery forever.
It was a purposeful move to allow slavery to be ended in time.
Or, they could of gotten rid of slavery. However, more than one founder happened to own slaves. :eusa_whistle:
The Founders, unlike some others, happen to realize they couldn't do everything they wanted immediately and some things had a higher priority. Survival as a nation for example.
 

Modbert

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The Founders, unlike some others, happen to realize they couldn't do everything they wanted immediately and some things had a higher priority. Survival as a nation for example.
Sure, but what stopped them from having women vote? Or non-white landowners?

The founders weren't perfect, they had their flaws, their vices, and some of them once they got into office abused the Constitution. We should stop treating them as if they are some sort of Gods, they were human beings.
 

jillian

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Anyone have any proof of the framers opinion on this?
I have plenty I just prefer not to deal with Maws.
Why do we care?

The framers' opinions were that women shouldn't vote and only landed gentry should... that slaves were legal and each was 3/5 of a person.

The people we are now are the people we are now.

Thankfully we've evolved.
What evidence do you have that "we've evolved"?

And the put the 3/5ths provision in the Constitution to limit the power of slave states so the practice could die out.
evidence of evolution..... women and blacks vote and blacks are 1 person 1 vote like everyone else.

and no, that isn't why they put in the 3/5. it was a compromise because the south wanted to be represented based on its numbers including slaves... and the northern states didn't want the south to be overrepresented. the 3/5 provision was a compromise.

had nothing to do with slavery dying out back in the 1700's.
 

Big Fitz

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The theory that there is a certain degree of responsibility given to the citizenry is the concept to hold in mind here. They based their voting system on much of what England did, for that is was they were most comfortable and familiar with. Women and non-landed men could not vote there either till later in history.

That being said, should we seriously consider looking at what SHOULD be the responsibilities of citizenship in America above and beyond the census and paying taxes and obeying laws? For voting, should we have greater requirements other than you're 18? Should all newly minted adults be forced to serve in either the military or some other government service if they are not qualified to be in the military?

The theory is not without merit to consider.
 

Flopper

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It is not a logical fallacy to look to the founders to understand the Constitution And what kind of people we are expected to be as citizens .

They are the authority .

It would be a logical fallacy to look to Barack Obama or George Bush as authorities on anything but progressivism.

"They are the authority." "what kind of people we are expected to be" :lol:

Are they the authority today? They gave us the amendments process. Their authority dictated slaves as one fifth(?) of a person.

what kind of people we are to be is our choice...we are not expected to fall in line, we are free people's

:evil::evil::evil:


People like FittieBoy, need a lesson in reality.
Anyone have any proof of the framers opinion on this?
I have plenty I just prefer not to deal with Maws.
Yea, and maybe they could help us deal with dependence on foreign oil, terrorism, and climate change. It's ridiculous to think that the founding fathers had some insight into who should be an American citizen today. I would think their thoughts would be along lines of No British - No way, Indians, you got to be kidding.

The Constitution was a revolutionary document expanding on the Magna Carta to provide us a foundation for our legal system. But neither the Constitution nor the opinions of the writers are entirely applicable today. There has been many amendments to the constitution and a lot more interpretation, much of which the founding father would certainly not agree.
 

Flopper

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Anyone have any proof of the framers opinion on this?
I have plenty I just prefer not to deal with Maws.
Why do we care?

The framers' opinions were that women shouldn't vote and only landed gentry should... that slaves were legal and each was 3/5 of a person.

The people we are now are the people we are now.

Thankfully we've evolved.
Had they not had the 3/5 in there, the south would have been able to over whelm representation and codified slavery forever.
It was a purposeful move to allow slavery to be ended in time.
'Had they not had the 3/5 in there, the south would have been able to over whelm representation and codified slavery forever."

I think your statement illustrates quite well the fact that much of the opinions expressed by the founders were dealing with the politics of the day and are not applicable today. I look upon the Constitution as a living document that changes as our society changes.
 

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