Did Lincoln start the War on Christmas?

[rightwinger]

Opinion: Did Lincoln start the 'war of Christmas'? - CNN.com

In 1834, Illinois voted whether to adopt Christmas as a legal holiday. Among those voting "nay" was the young Abraham Lincoln.

In 1834, Lincoln had not yet grown out of his atheist phase, but the young Lincoln's lack of faith in God -- and his lifelong disbelief in the divinity of Christ -- does not explain his vote. In 1834, a vote against Christmas was a safe, even a conventional vote.

Not a single state in the Union closed its offices for Christmas on December 25 in 1834. Lincoln marked his first Christmas as President, in December 1861, by holding a Cabinet meeting in the morning and a dinner party in the evening. The Lincoln family never had a White House tree and sent no Christmas cards.

Nobody was much shocked by these omissions.

The public Christmas as Americans know it today did not take form until late in the 19th century. George Washington issued a proclamation on Thanksgiving, but he never made any statement about Christmas (or Easter for that matter). The first state to recognize Christmas as a holiday was Alabama, in 1836, but the North and especially New England resisted. Not until 1856 did Massachusetts accept Christmas as a holiday. The federal government took until 1870 to follow.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Ok, so what's the point?

 

[JakeStarkey]

That many Americans, some of them very prominent, are not and have not been Christians.

 

[Warrior102]

Opinion: Did Lincoln start the 'war of Christmas'? - CNN.com

In 1834, Illinois voted whether to adopt Christmas as a legal holiday. Among those voting "nay" was the young Abraham Lincoln.

In 1834, Lincoln had not yet grown out of his atheist phase, but the young Lincoln's lack of faith in God -- and his lifelong disbelief in the divinity of Christ -- does not explain his vote. In 1834, a vote against Christmas was a safe, even a conventional vote.

Not a single state in the Union closed its offices for Christmas on December 25 in 1834. Lincoln marked his first Christmas as President, in December 1861, by holding a Cabinet meeting in the morning and a dinner party in the evening. The Lincoln family never had a White House tree and sent no Christmas cards.

Nobody was much shocked by these omissions.

The public Christmas as Americans know it today did not take form until late in the 19th century. George Washington issued a proclamation on Thanksgiving, but he never made any statement about Christmas (or Easter for that matter). The first state to recognize Christmas as a holiday was Alabama, in 1836, but the North and especially New England resisted. Not until 1856 did Massachusetts accept Christmas as a holiday. The federal government took until 1870 to follow.

Gee - no Christmas tree and celebrations during Lincoln's tenure. Why should there have been. There was a war going on, stupid. Perhaps Lincoln wasn't much in a celebratory mood - like dipshit Obama, who could give a fuck less what's going on in America. He just hops on Air Farce One and takes off to Honolulu for a 14-day, $4 Million vacation. Lincoln's got more Christianity in one of his farts than the whole Obama Administration combined.

 

[The T]

Lincoln had a disbelief in God? Who knew?

"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battlefield of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate, we can not consecrate, we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

__________________

When presented a Bible in 1864 from Former slaves:

"In regard to this great book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Saviour gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it we could not know right from wrong. All things most desirable for man’s welfare, here and hereafter, are to be found portrayed in it."

___________________

Lincoln came from a religious family, albeit he didn't belong to any Church, formally. The man knew there were entities larger than himself, and referenced them. True in his early life and with a father that abandoned him...as a matter of course he questioned it...as he grew older as President he knew...he followed a course most people do in wisdom, and acknowledged it.

RW? Your point and reference to an OPINION PIECE is noted. What ARE you trying to say anyway?

 

[Wyatt earp]

Ok, so what's the point?

Its all Lincolns fault

 

[JakeStarkey]

The T wrote "Lincoln had a disbelief in God? Who knew?" Silly comment. Lincoln did not believe in Christianity not that an impersonal deity did not exist.

 

[The T]

The T wrote "Lincoln had a disbelief in God? Who knew?" Silly comment. Lincoln did not believe in Christianity not that an impersonal deity did not exist.

He most certainly DID.



Following Lincoln's assassination, there were competing biographies, some claiming Lincoln had been a Christian and others that he had been a non-believer. In 1872, Colonel Ward Hill Lamon published his Life of Abraham Lincoln; From his Birth to his Inauguration as President using interviews and correspondences collected by William Herndon, Lincoln's law partner in Springfield. Lamon had also been a law partner with Lincoln in Illinois, from 1852 until 1857, and later was Lincoln's personal bodyguard in Washington. Lamon's biography stated that Lincoln did not himself believe in the divinity of Jesus, and that several who knew him as a young man described him as an infidel.[17]
Rev. James Armstrong Reed, in preparing his 1873 lectures on the religion of Lincoln, asked a number of people if there was any evidence of Lincoln being an infidel in his later life. The reply from Phineas Gurley, pastor of the same New York Avenue Presbyterian Church while Lincoln was an attender, to Reed's question was:

I do not believe a word of it. It could not have been true of him while here, for I have had frequent and intimate conversations with him on the subject of the Bible and the Christian religion, when he could have had no motive to deceive me, and I considered him sound not only on the truth of the Christian religion but on all its fundamental doctrines and teaching. And more than that: in the latter days of his chastened and weary life, after the death of his son Willie, and his visit to the battle-field of Gettysburg, he said, with tears in his eyes, that he had lost confidence in everything but God, and that he now believed his heart was changed, and that he loved the Saviour, and, if he was not deceived in himself, it was his intention soon to make a profession of religion.[46]
​

Noah Brooks, a newspaperman, and a friend and biographer of Lincoln's, in reply to Reed's inquiry if there was any truth to claims that Lincoln was an infidel, stated:

In addition to what has appeared from my pen, I will state that I have had many conversations with Mr. Lincoln, which were more or less of a religious character, and while I never tried to draw anything like a statement of his views from him, yet he freely expressed himself to me as having 'a hope of blessed immortality through Jesus Christ.' His views seemed to settle so naturally around that statement, that I considered no other necessary. His language seemed not that of an inquirer, but of one who had a prior settled belief in the fundamental doctrines of the Christian religion. Once or twice, speaking to me of the change which had come upon him, he said, while he could not fix any definite time, yet it was after he came here, and I am very positive that in his own mind he identified it with about the time of Willie's death. He said, too, that after he went to the White House he kept up the habit of daily prayer. Sometimes he said it was only ten words, but those ten words he had. There is no possible reason to suppose that Mr. Lincoln would ever deceive me as to his religious sentiments. In many conversations with him, I absorbed the firm conviction that Mr. Lincoln was at heart a Christian man, believed in the Savior, and was seriously considering the step which would formally connect him with the visible church on earth. Certainly, any suggestion as to Mr. Lincoln's skepticism or Infidelity, to me who knew him intimately from 1862 till the time of his death, is a monstrous fiction -- a shocking perversion.[47]​

Abraham Lincoln and religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

​

 

[The T]

Was Lincoln a liar?

 

[The T]

As I stated? Lincoln early in life was disillusioned...because of his father's actions...but later in life got wise and acknowledged God.

This thread is stupid on it's face, in the middle, and on the sides.

AND based on an opinion piece.

Started the 'War On Christmas'? REALLY?

History Revisionism by Liberal Statists.

 

[Sallow]

Was Lincoln a liar?

This may be tough for you guys to understand but there were probably several American President who weren't very religious or were atheists, that still presented a religious public face.

I think Washington was probably an atheist, Jefferson and Lincoln, agnostics, and most of the rest put on a good face for the public, were not all that religious, but probably believed in something.

 

[The T]

Was Lincoln a liar?

This may be tough for you guys to understand but there were probably several American President who weren't very religious or were atheists, that still presented a religious public face.

I think Washington was probably an atheist,

No Washing prayed outright...what atheist does that unless it was Big government...oh, wait....

Jefferson and Lincoln, agnostics, and most of the rest put on a good face for the public, were not all that religious, but probably believed in something.

...

Yeah they were liars too just like present day politicians, right Sallow? Admission from YOU regarding the present day?

NAH just a THEOCRACY Republicans and the TEA PARTY are imposing on you...

Thought I forgot about that, didn't you? OOPS!

 

[rightwinger]

Was Lincoln a liar?

This may be tough for you guys to understand but there were probably several American President who weren't very religious or were atheists, that still presented a religious public face.

I think Washington was probably an atheist, Jefferson and Lincoln, agnostics, and most of the rest put on a good face for the public, were not all that religious, but probably believed in something.

An avowed Atheist could never win the Presidency

There have been many presidents with less than stellar religious cred but who would trot out the appropriate blessings when required

In my lifetime I would go with LBJ, Nixon, Reagan, Clinton and Obama as not terribly religious

 

[Sallow]

Was Lincoln a liar?

This may be tough for you guys to understand but there were probably several American President who weren't very religious or were atheists, that still presented a religious public face.



No Washing prayed outright...what atheist does that unless it was Big government...oh, wait....

Jefferson and Lincoln, agnostics, and most of the rest put on a good face for the public, were not all that religious, but probably believed in something.

...

Yeah they were liars too just like present day politicians, right Sallow? Admission from YOU regarding the present day?

NAH just a THEOCRACY Republicans and the TEA PARTY are imposing on you...

Thought I forgot about that, didn't you? OOPS!

Forget what?

Conservatives, especially those in the Tea Party, want a Theocracy.

You guys don't hide that very well.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Was Lincoln a liar?

This may be tough for you guys to understand but there were probably several American President who weren't very religious or were atheists, that still presented a religious public face.

I think Washington was probably an atheist, Jefferson and Lincoln, agnostics, and most of the rest put on a good face for the public, were not all that religious, but probably believed in something.

They were spiritual.....not religious.

 

[Sallow]

Was Lincoln a liar?

This may be tough for you guys to understand but there were probably several American President who weren't very religious or were atheists, that still presented a religious public face.

I think Washington was probably an atheist, Jefferson and Lincoln, agnostics, and most of the rest put on a good face for the public, were not all that religious, but probably believed in something.

An avowed Atheist could never win the Presidency

There have been many presidents with less than stellar religious cred but who would trot out the appropriate blessings when required

In my lifetime I would go with LBJ, Nixon, Reagan, Clinton and Obama as not terribly religious

It's probably part and parcel with folks that hold leadership roles in general.

They might use religion as part of the political bag of tricks, but they, themselves really don't believe.

 

[BillyZane]

This may be tough for you guys to understand but there were probably several American President who weren't very religious or were atheists, that still presented a religious public face.



No Washing prayed outright...what atheist does that unless it was Big government...oh, wait....

...

Yeah they were liars too just like present day politicians, right Sallow? Admission from YOU regarding the present day?

NAH just a THEOCRACY Republicans and the TEA PARTY are imposing on you...

Thought I forgot about that, didn't you? OOPS!

Forget what?

Conservatives, especially those in the Tea Party, want a Theocracy.

You guys don't hide that very well.

You obviously have no idea what a theocracy is.

Here's a hint, celebrating Christmas doesn't qualify

 

[whitehall]

Opinion: Did Lincoln start the 'war of Christmas'? - CNN.com

In 1834, Illinois voted whether to adopt Christmas as a legal holiday. Among those voting "nay" was the young Abraham Lincoln.

In 1834, Lincoln had not yet grown out of his atheist phase, but the young Lincoln's lack of faith in God -- and his lifelong disbelief in the divinity of Christ -- does not explain his vote. In 1834, a vote against Christmas was a safe, even a conventional vote.

Not a single state in the Union closed its offices for Christmas on December 25 in 1834. Lincoln marked his first Christmas as President, in December 1861, by holding a Cabinet meeting in the morning and a dinner party in the evening. The Lincoln family never had a White House tree and sent no Christmas cards.

Nobody was much shocked by these omissions.

The public Christmas as Americans know it today did not take form until late in the 19th century. George Washington issued a proclamation on Thanksgiving, but he never made any statement about Christmas (or Easter for that matter). The first state to recognize Christmas as a holiday was Alabama, in 1836, but the North and especially New England resisted. Not until 1856 did Massachusetts accept Christmas as a holiday. The federal government took until 1870 to follow.

Interesting argument but a 1st year law student could rip holes in it big enough to drive a truck through. Apparently CNN is trying to make a case that "omission" is the same legal concept as "commission". Observance of Christmas was falling off in England until Dickens wrote "A Christmas Carol" around 1834. It took a while for the revived Christmas holiday to reach the US and gradually during the next hundred the tradition took hold. Lincoln may have had his own opinion about Christmas but only a pop-culture fool educated by CNN and Huffington would call it a war.

 

[Sallow]

...

Yeah they were liars too just like present day politicians, right Sallow? Admission from YOU regarding the present day?

NAH just a THEOCRACY Republicans and the TEA PARTY are imposing on you...

Thought I forgot about that, didn't you? OOPS!

Forget what?

Conservatives, especially those in the Tea Party, want a Theocracy.

You guys don't hide that very well.

You obviously have no idea what a theocracy is.

Here's a hint, celebrating Christmas doesn't qualify

If it's by government decree?

Well yeah..it does.

 

[JakeStarkey]

As I stated? Lincoln early in life was disillusioned...because of his father's actions...but later in life got wise and acknowledged God.

This thread is stupid on it's face, in the middle, and on the sides.

AND based on an opinion piece.

Started the 'War On Christmas'? REALLY?

History Revisionism by Liberal Statists.

Your revisionism has never been accepted by competent historians. William Herndon and Mary Todd Lincoln, who knew AL far better than Hill or you or anyone, disagree.

Herndon's excuse to use hard words about Mary Todd Lincoln would eventually come. Nearly seven years later, in 1873, the Reverend James Reed of Springfield delivered a lecture on Abraham Lincoln's religion, "The Later Life and Religious Sentiments of Abraham Lincoln." The lecture was in reaction to Ward Hill Lamon's 1872 biography, which gave much attention to Lincoln's "infidelity" as a young man on the basis of evidence collected by Herndon, and Reed sought to reclaim, at least for his later life, Lincoln's reputation as a Christian. Herndon was persuaded by his wife and others to reply to Reed, and on December 12, 1873, he delivered a public lecture titled "Lincoln's Religion." His most persuasive evidence that Lincoln was not a believer in Christian doctrines and that his religious views did not change while he lived in Springfield was a passage from his interview with Mary Todd Lincoln, in which he reported her as saying:

Mr. Lincoln had no hope and no faith in the usual acceptation of these words, and Lincoln's maxim and philosophy were: "What is to be will be, and no cares (prayers) of ours can ar- Page [End Page 17]rest the decree." Mr. Lincoln never joined any church. He was a religious man always, as I think. He first thought—to say think—about this subject was when Willie died—never before; he read the Bible a good deal about 1864. He felt religious, more than ever before, about the time he went to Gettysburg. Mr. Lincoln was not a technical Christian. [46]

William H. Herndon and Mary Todd Lincoln