Dems Are Getting Cocky and Overplaying Their Hand

[maineman]

We agree on guns

Abortion is murder - period

Libs are handing the terrorists a win on a silver platter

The people of Iraq in poll after poll say there is no civil war

YOU asked me where I differed from my party. I told you.

And I disagree with your assertions concerning the civil war in Iraq....

the people there may not see the civil war happening in their neighborhood, but that does not mean it is not happening.

How many US civil war battles were fought in wisconsin?

And I say again... the "terrorists" will not WIN in Iraq when we leave...Iraqis will win, eventually.... sunnis and shiites are fighting one another. Calling them "terrorists" is a meaningless term. Indiginous Iraqis are going to win in Iraq no matter what side wins. There is no way in HELL that Iraqis are going to give up control of THEIR oil to a handful of deadenders from outside their country.

 

[red states rule]

YOU asked me where I differed from my party. I told you.

And I disagree with your assertions concerning the civil war in Iraq....

the people there may not see the civil war happening in their neighborhood, but that does not mean it is not happening.

How many US civil war battles were fought in wisconsin?

And I say again... the "terrorists" will not WIN in Iraq when we leave...Iraqis will win, eventually.... sunnis and shiites are fighting one another. Calling them "terrorists" is a meaningless term. Indiginous Iraqis are going to win in Iraq no matter what side wins. There is no way in HELL that Iraqis are going to give up control of THEIR oil to a handful of deadenders from outside their country.

The poll is of people living in Baghdad - I think they have a better view of things then you do from your Ivory Tower

 

[maineman]

The poll is of people living in Baghdad - I think they have a better view of things then you do from your Ivory Tower

provide me the link to this poll of residents of Baghdad.

I'll wait.

 

[red states rule]

Resilient Iraqis ask what civil war?

DESPITE sectarian slaughter, ethnic cleansing and suicide bombs, an opinion poll conducted on the eve of the fourth anniversary of the US-led invasion of Iraq has found a striking resilience and optimism among the inhabitants.

The poll, the biggest since coalition troops entered Iraq on March 20, 2003, shows that by a majority of two to one, Iraqis prefer the current leadership to Saddam Hussein’s regime, regardless of the security crisis and a lack of public services.

The survey, published today, also reveals that contrary to the views of many western analysts, most Iraqis do not believe they are embroiled in a civil war.

Officials in Washington and London are likely to be buoyed by the poll conducted by Opinion Research Business (ORB), a respected British market research company that funded its own survey of 5,019 Iraqis over the age of 18.
The 400 interviewers who fanned out across Iraq last month found that the sense of security felt by Baghdad residents had significantly improved since polling carried out before the US announced in January that it was sending in a “surge” of more than 20,000 extra troops.

The poll highlights the impact the sectarian violence has had. Some 26% of Iraqis - 15% of Sunnis and 34% of Shi’ites - have suffered the murder of a family member. Kidnapping has also played a terrifying role: 14% have had a relative, friend or colleague abducted, rising to 33% in Baghdad.

Yet 49% of those questioned preferred life under Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister, to living under Saddam. Only 26% said things had been better in Saddam’s era, while 16% said the two leaders were as bad as each other and the rest did not know or refused to answer.

Not surprisingly, the divisions in Iraqi society were reflected in statistics — Sunnis were more likely to back the previous Ba’athist regime (51%) while the Shi’ites (66%) preferred the Maliki government.

Maliki, who derives a significant element of his support from Moqtada al-Sadr, the hardline Shi’ite militant, and his Mahdi army, has begun trying to overcome criticism that his government favours the Shi’ites, going out of his way to be seen with Sunni tribal leaders. He is also under pressure from the US to include more Sunnis in an expected government reshuffle.

The poll suggests a significant increase in support for Maliki. A survey conducted by ORB in September last year found that only 29% of Iraqis had a favourable opinion of the prime minister.

Another surprise was that only 27% believed they were caught up in a civil war. Again, that number divided along religious lines, with 41% of Sunnis believing Iraq was in a civil war, compared with only 15% of Shi’ites.

The survey is a rare snapshot of Iraqi opinion because of the difficulty of working in the country, with the exception of Kurdish areas which are run as an essentially autonomous province.

Most international organisations have pulled out of Iraq and diplomats are mostly holed-up in the Green Zone. The unexpected degree of optimism may signal a groundswell of hope at signs the American “surge” is starting to take effect.

This weekend comments from Baghdad residents reflected the poll’s findings. Many said they were starting to feel more secure on the streets, although horrific bombings have continued. “The Americans have checkpoints and the most important thing is they don’t ask for ID, whether you are Sunni or Shi’ite,” said one resident. “There are no more fake checkpoints so you don’t need to be scared.”

The inhabitants of a northern Baghdad district were heartened to see on the concrete blocks protecting an Iraqi army checkpoint the lettering: “Down, down with the militias, we are fighting for the sake of Iraq.”

It would have been unthinkable just a few weeks ago. Residents said they noted that armed militias were off the streets.

One question showed the sharp divide in attitudes towards the continued presence of foreign troops in Iraq. Some 53% of Iraqis nationwide agree that the security situation will improve in the weeks after a withdrawal by international forces, while only 26% think it will get worse.

“We’ve been polling in Iraq since 2005 and the finding that most surprised us was how many Iraqis expressed support for the present government,” said Johnny Heald, managing director of ORB. “Given the level of violence in Iraq, it shows an unexpected level of optimism.”

Despite the sectarian divide, 64% of Iraqis still want to see a united Iraq under a central national government.

One statistic that bodes ill for Iraq’s future is the number who have fled the country, many of them middle-class professionals. Baghdad has been hard hit by the brain drain — 35% said a family member had left the country.

Additional reporting: Ali Rifat

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article1530526.ece

 

[Shattered]

You're driving me insane, and i mostly agree with. Would you please for the love of god, either post your owen thoughts, or break down the article, tell us what key points we should read, and why you agree with them.

I cant stand to read such long articles brother.

He won't. He doesn't possess the ability. He can't. This is why people from both sides of the fence hate him. His only response to you will be "don't read them", or "you're just like them." He doesn't know anything more. I'm not even sure he knows what he's reading, but goes to hack sites which are strictly in favor of one way of thinking, types in a keyword or two, and pulls the articles he posts.

My guess is he doesn't even read them.

 

[red states rule]

He won't. He doesn't possess the ability. He can't. This is why people from both sides of the fence hate him. His only response to you will be "don't read them", or "you're just like them." He doesn't know anything more. I'm not even sure he knows what he's reading, but goes to hack sites which are strictly in favor of one way of thinking, types in a keyword or two, and pulls the articles he posts.

My guess is he doesn't even read them.

So now AP and Timesonline are "hack" sites?

 

[maineman]

I am still wating for this "poll of baghdad residents". WIll that be coming anytime soon?

 

[red states rule]

I am still wating for this "poll of baghdad residents". WIll that be coming anytime soon?

See post 84 - or are you back to your normal debat tactic of ignore and spin?

 

[maineman]

See post 84 - or are you back to your normal debat tactic of ignore and spin?

from that post:

"The 400 interviewers who fanned out across Iraq last month"

 

[red states rule]

from that post:

"The 400 interviewers who fanned out across Iraq last month"

Another surprise was that only 27% believed they were caught up in a civil war. Again, that number divided along religious lines, with 41% of Sunnis believing Iraq was in a civil war, compared with only 15% of Shi’ites.


Again, any good news for America is bad news for liberals

 

[maineman]

the point made is that the poll was not taken of solely baghdad residents as you claim.

we put 28K troops in baghdad....of course THAT area is marginally safer...the death toll throughout Iraq remains unchanged, both for Americans and Iraqis....which means that while deaths in baghdad are dropping, deaths elsewhere must be rising.

 

[red states rule]

the point made is that the poll was not taken of solely baghdad residents as you claim.

we put 28K troops in baghdad....of course THAT area is marginally safer...the death toll throughout Iraq remains unchanged, both for Americans and Iraqis....which means that while deaths in baghdad are dropping, deaths elsewhere must be rising.

The Poll You’ll Never Hear About: Only 27% of Iraqis Believe it’s a Civil War
Posted by Noel Sheppard on March 19, 2007 - 00:34.
There were two Iraq polls released on Sunday. One is guaranteed to be headline news. The other will likely be totally ignored.

In fact, one of the polls was already referenced by George Stephanopoulos on ABC’s “This Week,” as well as reported by USA Today and CNN.

Know what the difference is between these surveys, both of which rather compelling as they asked questions of Iraqi citizens? Well, one painted a rather dire picture of conditions in the embattled country, while the other found a very optimistic people who don’t believe their nation is in a civil war.

As the American media will likely focus all of its attention on the more pessimistic survey, here is the contrary view nobody other than Fox News is likely to cover as reported by the Sunday Times (emphasis added throughout):

DESPITE sectarian slaughter, ethnic cleansing and suicide bombs, an opinion poll conducted on the eve of the fourth anniversary of the US-led invasion of Iraq has found a striking resilience and optimism among the inhabitants.

The poll, the biggest since coalition troops entered Iraq on March 20, 2003, shows that by a majority of two to one, Iraqis prefer the current leadership to Saddam Hussein’s regime, regardless of the security crisis and a lack of public services.

The survey, published today, also reveals that contrary to the views of many western analysts, most Iraqis do not believe they are embroiled in a civil war.

Is it becoming clear why you are unlikely to hear anything about this poll? Yet, that was only the beginning of the startling findings:

The 400 interviewers who fanned out across Iraq last month found that the sense of security felt by Baghdad residents had significantly improved since polling carried out before the US announced in January that it was sending in a “surge” of more than 20,000 extra troops.

[…]

49% of those questioned preferred life under Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister, to living under Saddam. Only 26% said things had been better in Saddam’s era, while 16% said the two leaders were as bad as each other and the rest did not know or refused to answer.

And, there was even more good news:

The poll suggests a significant increase in support for Maliki. A survey conducted by ORB in September last year found that only 29% of Iraqis had a favourable opinion of the prime minister.

Another surprise was that only 27% believed they were caught up in a civil war. Again, that number divided along religious lines, with 41% of Sunnis believing Iraq was in a civil war, compared with only 15% of Shi’ites.

[…]

One question showed the sharp divide in attitudes towards the continued presence of foreign troops in Iraq. Some 53% of Iraqis nationwide agree that the security situation will improve in the weeks after a withdrawal by international forces, while only 26% think it will get worse.

“We’ve been polling in Iraq since 2005 and the finding that most surprised us was how many Iraqis expressed support for the present government,” said Johnny Heald, managing director of ORB. “Given the level of violence in Iraq, it shows an unexpected level of optimism.”

Despite the sectarian divide, 64% of Iraqis still want to see a united Iraq under a central national government.

Rather unfortunate that Americans will likely hear very little about this survey, wouldn’t you agree?

What a disgrace.

http://newsbusters.org/node/11497

 

[maineman]

why do you keep posting the same words of other people that do NOT answer the questions posed to you instead of using your OWN words to actually answer me?

 

[red states rule]

why do you keep posting the same words of other people that do NOT answer the questions posed to you instead of using your OWN words to actually answer me?

I keep posting facts that prove you wrong - that is your problem

 

[red states rule]

In Baghdad, there are a few signs of improvement, but they tend to be offset by worrisome indications elsewhere in Iraq. Sectarian killings are down about 50 percent since the new strategy began, according to U.S military spokesmen. Car bombings are up, but so are tips from Iraqis. It is impossible to know how much of the decrease in violence is attributable to the biggest Shiite militia -- radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi Army -- deciding to lie low. In addition, noted a U.S. Army officer preparing for his third Iraq tour, when one side in a war alters its tactics, the other side usually will take time to study the shift and assess vulnerabilities before renewing attacks. Also, in Anbar province, there are solid indications of tribal leaders turning against al-Qaeda extremists.

But, reported one Special Forces veteran who has worked in Iraq in the military and as a civilian, "the surge in Baghdad is pushing the sectarian violence to other parts of Iraq." That is one reason for the increased fighting in nearby Diyala province that led U.S. commanders to send in a Stryker battalion that was part of the troop buildup. Likewise, the Marine Corps' new success in Anbar appears to have forced some al-Qaeda fighters to shift to Mosul, Baqubah and Tall Afar, which in 2006 was hailed as a U.S. success story but in the past month has been the scene of a horrific truck bombing and revenge killings by Shiite police. Also, a military intelligence officer warned of other troubling signs outside Baghdad: Kirkuk edging closer to explosion, the Turks increasingly unhappy with Kurdish activity, and an impending British drawdown in the south that could make U.S. supply lines from Kuwait more vulnerable.

Another military intelligence veteran of Iraq said he thinks the Petraeus approach is getting some results, but he predicted that violence will spike this summer, in part as an attempt by Iraqi factions to influence the U.S. political debate. The bottom line, said Jeffrey White, a former Defense Intelligence Agency analyst, is that by this fall the picture may be mixed. "Things could look substantially brighter in Baghdad but much worse elsewhere," said White, who is now at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...topnews&sub=AR

 

[Louie]

I keep posting facts that prove you wrong - that is your problem

you are not posting facts, you are posting jibberish.

 

[red states rule]

you are not posting facts, you are posting jibberish.

When facts go against liberals - they dismiss them as jibberish