Defunding or abolishing LE

[freyasman]

what are some of the likely outcomes of such a course of action?

Back to the future in policing? Civilian militias in American cities

Police being pulled back in urban areas has led to neighborhood patrols which lead to chaos, violence, gangs and prejudice.

www.usatoday.com

From the link;
"When the government doesn’t provide order, people either organize themselves or they pay organized crime for protection. And while people complain — rightly — that police often fail to observe due process, armed neighborhood groups and mobsters are unlikely to do better.

In a Wall Street Journal article on Minneapolis’s neighborhood patrols, you can see that:

"'It got to the point where crime had no consequences,' said Tania Rivera, 30, who runs a child-care center with her mother. 'It was being done deliberately out in the open. Drive-through drug dealing, drive-through prostitution, everything from gunshots to assaults to sex out in the public. Everything you didn’t want your neighborhood to look like.'

So after a number of community meetings, neighbors began constructing a barrier to close off two blocks of their street, first with trash cans, then debris. For a while, a boat on a trailer protected one intersection. Eventually, a nearby iron maker constructed a permanent gate. Police gave their approval as long as emergency responders could get through if requested by the neighborhood.

Neighborhood men also began an armed patrol, kicking out anyone who didn’t belong on the block after dark."

Kicking out people who “didn’t belong on the block” would be seen as racist and unconstitutional if police did it. The Journal quotes a resident as saying “We’re not proud of that, but it needed to be done.” And it needed to be done because the city of Minneapolis didn’t want to do its job.

Is this a boon to the criminal class? Only in the short term.



The thing to remember is, ultimately, police aren’t there to protect the public from criminals, but to protect criminals from the public. Before the invention of modern police by Robert Peel in London in the early 19th Century, the public dealt with criminals mostly on its own, and usually harshly. Arrest by the police and trial before a court was a big improvement over mob justice.

Now some want to go the other direction. I predict it will end badly."

There are already many organized groups out there, ready to use force to achieve their objectives, especially in urban areas; they're called gangs.
This is who will take charge in many areas in the event of a power vacuum, such as when the police are no longer around….. ya'll okay with that?
Because that's what we're looking at..... any of ya'll ever run into a quasi-official roadblock in a 3rd world country? Don't be surprised if it starts happening here.

Out in rural areas, you will see everything from local militias organized by a cadre from the VFW, to biker gangs running area patrols and riding shotgun on truck convoys, in exchange for safe haven in the community and/or cash.



Shit is going to get interesting.

 

[Gdjjr]

or they pay organized crime for protection.

We already pay organized crime- it's called gov't. Legal doesn't immoral actions moral.

 

[shockedcanadian]

what are some of the likely outcomes of such a course of action?

Back to the future in policing? Civilian militias in American cities

Police being pulled back in urban areas has led to neighborhood patrols which lead to chaos, violence, gangs and prejudice.

www.usatoday.com

From the link;
"When the government doesn’t provide order, people either organize themselves or they pay organized crime for protection. And while people complain — rightly — that police often fail to observe due process, armed neighborhood groups and mobsters are unlikely to do better.

In a Wall Street Journal article on Minneapolis’s neighborhood patrols, you can see that:

"'It got to the point where crime had no consequences,' said Tania Rivera, 30, who runs a child-care center with her mother. 'It was being done deliberately out in the open. Drive-through drug dealing, drive-through prostitution, everything from gunshots to assaults to sex out in the public. Everything you didn’t want your neighborhood to look like.'

So after a number of community meetings, neighbors began constructing a barrier to close off two blocks of their street, first with trash cans, then debris. For a while, a boat on a trailer protected one intersection. Eventually, a nearby iron maker constructed a permanent gate. Police gave their approval as long as emergency responders could get through if requested by the neighborhood.

Neighborhood men also began an armed patrol, kicking out anyone who didn’t belong on the block after dark."

Kicking out people who “didn’t belong on the block” would be seen as racist and unconstitutional if police did it. The Journal quotes a resident as saying “We’re not proud of that, but it needed to be done.” And it needed to be done because the city of Minneapolis didn’t want to do its job.

Is this a boon to the criminal class? Only in the short term.



The thing to remember is, ultimately, police aren’t there to protect the public from criminals, but to protect criminals from the public. Before the invention of modern police by Robert Peel in London in the early 19th Century, the public dealt with criminals mostly on its own, and usually harshly. Arrest by the police and trial before a court was a big improvement over mob justice.

Now some want to go the other direction. I predict it will end badly."

There are already many organized groups out there, ready to use force to achieve their objectives, especially in urban areas; they're called gangs.
This is who will take charge in many areas in the event of a power vacuum, such as when the police are no longer around….. ya'll okay with that?
Because that's what we're looking at..... any of ya'll ever run into a quasi-official roadblock in a 3rd world country? Don't be surprised if it starts happening here.

Out in rural areas, you will see everything from local militias organized by a cadre from the VFW, to biker gangs running area patrols and riding shotgun on truck convoys, in exchange for safe haven in the community and/or cash.



Shit is going to get interesting.

Abolishing? Well, that would be bad.

It's man for himself and former military, mercenaries are about to make a great deal of money protecting some of the wealthiest neighbourhoods.

Places where they can pool their money and hire security in gated communities already. With nobody in fear of policing, you'll invariably see some arm up and fearlessly attack these places. That would be worse for them then if they tried that now, but the first wave of criminals won't know that yet.

The poorest communities will be run by Warlords under such a circumstances, nobody will come to assist as there's no money to be made, but, there would be heavily armed turf wars and I imagine some old scores settled rather quickly and violently.

Defund? Depends how you do it. I support lower salaries on entry level police in Canada, it would save us billions a year. Money that could be used to prevent crime and provide opportunity channels, while having the same, or even MORE uniformed officers due to lower costs. I think cutting plain clothed officers in Canada would be one of the best ways to improve our civil liberties and competitiveness. This ancient way of protecting society should be an excessively high paid racket.

You guys face a different situation. $60k a year for much higher risk is not going to attract the best prospects. The lower the wage goes, if not a decreased risk associated; you might find you attract some really bad hombres on various forces.

 

[freyasman]

or they pay organized crime for protection.

We already pay organized crime- it's called gov't. Legal doesn't immoral actions moral.

Agreed.
But when there is a shift in power, it always gets crazy on the ground.

 

[Correll]

what are some of the likely outcomes of such a course of action?

Back to the future in policing? Civilian militias in American cities

Police being pulled back in urban areas has led to neighborhood patrols which lead to chaos, violence, gangs and prejudice.

www.usatoday.com

From the link;
"When the government doesn’t provide order, people either organize themselves or they pay organized crime for protection. And while people complain — rightly — that police often fail to observe due process, armed neighborhood groups and mobsters are unlikely to do better.

In a Wall Street Journal article on Minneapolis’s neighborhood patrols, you can see that:

"'It got to the point where crime had no consequences,' said Tania Rivera, 30, who runs a child-care center with her mother. 'It was being done deliberately out in the open. Drive-through drug dealing, drive-through prostitution, everything from gunshots to assaults to sex out in the public. Everything you didn’t want your neighborhood to look like.'

So after a number of community meetings, neighbors began constructing a barrier to close off two blocks of their street, first with trash cans, then debris. For a while, a boat on a trailer protected one intersection. Eventually, a nearby iron maker constructed a permanent gate. Police gave their approval as long as emergency responders could get through if requested by the neighborhood.

Neighborhood men also began an armed patrol, kicking out anyone who didn’t belong on the block after dark."

Kicking out people who “didn’t belong on the block” would be seen as racist and unconstitutional if police did it. The Journal quotes a resident as saying “We’re not proud of that, but it needed to be done.” And it needed to be done because the city of Minneapolis didn’t want to do its job.

Is this a boon to the criminal class? Only in the short term.



The thing to remember is, ultimately, police aren’t there to protect the public from criminals, but to protect criminals from the public. Before the invention of modern police by Robert Peel in London in the early 19th Century, the public dealt with criminals mostly on its own, and usually harshly. Arrest by the police and trial before a court was a big improvement over mob justice.

Now some want to go the other direction. I predict it will end badly."

There are already many organized groups out there, ready to use force to achieve their objectives, especially in urban areas; they're called gangs.
This is who will take charge in many areas in the event of a power vacuum, such as when the police are no longer around….. ya'll okay with that?
Because that's what we're looking at..... any of ya'll ever run into a quasi-official roadblock in a 3rd world country? Don't be surprised if it starts happening here.

Out in rural areas, you will see everything from local militias organized by a cadre from the VFW, to biker gangs running area patrols and riding shotgun on truck convoys, in exchange for safe haven in the community and/or cash.



Shit is going to get interesting.

Abolishing? Well, that would be bad.

It's man for himself and former military, mercenaries are about to make a great deal of money protecting some of the wealthiest neighbourhoods.

Places where they can pool their money and hire security in gated communities already. With nobody in fear of policing, you'll invariably see some arm up and fearlessly attack these places. That would be worse for them then if they tried that now, but the first wave of criminals won't know that yet.

The poorest communities will be run by Warlords under such a circumstances, nobody will come to assist as there's no money to be made, but, there would be heavily armed turf wars and I imagine some old scores settled rather quickly and violently.

Defund? Depends how you do it. I support lower salaries on entry level police in Canada, it would save us billions a year. Money that could be used to prevent crime and provide opportunity channels, while having the same, or even MORE uniformed officers due to lower costs. I think cutting plain clothed officers in Canada would be one of the best ways to improve our civil liberties and competitiveness. This ancient way of protecting society should be an excessively high paid racket.

You guys face a different situation. $60k a year for much higher risk is not going to attract the best prospects. The lower the wage goes, if not a decreased risk associated; you might find you attract some really bad hombres on various forces.

don't assume that money will be the driving force. or that poor people can't organize to protect themselsves.

 

[Gdjjr]

, it always gets crazy on the ground.

Better sooner than later- kinda like breaking up is hard to do, but the longer it's put off the more it hurts.

 

[freyasman]

It might be a good time to get organized and figure out what groups are likely to be big in your area, and maybe making nice with them.
Actually, you should have been doing that a long time ago, but better late than never.

 

[freyasman]

, it always gets crazy on the ground.

Better sooner than later- kinda like breaking up is hard to do, but the longer it's put off the more it hurts.

It's already started.

 

[shockedcanadian]

what are some of the likely outcomes of such a course of action?

Back to the future in policing? Civilian militias in American cities

Police being pulled back in urban areas has led to neighborhood patrols which lead to chaos, violence, gangs and prejudice.

www.usatoday.com

From the link;
"When the government doesn’t provide order, people either organize themselves or they pay organized crime for protection. And while people complain — rightly — that police often fail to observe due process, armed neighborhood groups and mobsters are unlikely to do better.

In a Wall Street Journal article on Minneapolis’s neighborhood patrols, you can see that:

"'It got to the point where crime had no consequences,' said Tania Rivera, 30, who runs a child-care center with her mother. 'It was being done deliberately out in the open. Drive-through drug dealing, drive-through prostitution, everything from gunshots to assaults to sex out in the public. Everything you didn’t want your neighborhood to look like.'

So after a number of community meetings, neighbors began constructing a barrier to close off two blocks of their street, first with trash cans, then debris. For a while, a boat on a trailer protected one intersection. Eventually, a nearby iron maker constructed a permanent gate. Police gave their approval as long as emergency responders could get through if requested by the neighborhood.

Neighborhood men also began an armed patrol, kicking out anyone who didn’t belong on the block after dark."

Kicking out people who “didn’t belong on the block” would be seen as racist and unconstitutional if police did it. The Journal quotes a resident as saying “We’re not proud of that, but it needed to be done.” And it needed to be done because the city of Minneapolis didn’t want to do its job.

Is this a boon to the criminal class? Only in the short term.



The thing to remember is, ultimately, police aren’t there to protect the public from criminals, but to protect criminals from the public. Before the invention of modern police by Robert Peel in London in the early 19th Century, the public dealt with criminals mostly on its own, and usually harshly. Arrest by the police and trial before a court was a big improvement over mob justice.

Now some want to go the other direction. I predict it will end badly."

There are already many organized groups out there, ready to use force to achieve their objectives, especially in urban areas; they're called gangs.
This is who will take charge in many areas in the event of a power vacuum, such as when the police are no longer around….. ya'll okay with that?
Because that's what we're looking at..... any of ya'll ever run into a quasi-official roadblock in a 3rd world country? Don't be surprised if it starts happening here.

Out in rural areas, you will see everything from local militias organized by a cadre from the VFW, to biker gangs running area patrols and riding shotgun on truck convoys, in exchange for safe haven in the community and/or cash.



Shit is going to get interesting.

Abolishing? Well, that would be bad.

It's man for himself and former military, mercenaries are about to make a great deal of money protecting some of the wealthiest neighbourhoods.

Places where they can pool their money and hire security in gated communities already. With nobody in fear of policing, you'll invariably see some arm up and fearlessly attack these places. That would be worse for them then if they tried that now, but the first wave of criminals won't know that yet.

The poorest communities will be run by Warlords under such a circumstances, nobody will come to assist as there's no money to be made, but, there would be heavily armed turf wars and I imagine some old scores settled rather quickly and violently.

Defund? Depends how you do it. I support lower salaries on entry level police in Canada, it would save us billions a year. Money that could be used to prevent crime and provide opportunity channels, while having the same, or even MORE uniformed officers due to lower costs. I think cutting plain clothed officers in Canada would be one of the best ways to improve our civil liberties and competitiveness. This ancient way of protecting society should be an excessively high paid racket.

You guys face a different situation. $60k a year for much higher risk is not going to attract the best prospects. The lower the wage goes, if not a decreased risk associated; you might find you attract some really bad hombres on various forces.

don't assume that money will be the driving force. or that poor people can't organize to protect themselsves.

Fair point. Will it be a 24/7 job though? You aren't going to be rolling in a gang at home base all day, you have to work. Permanent posses won't have that problem. They will get rich from your hard work.

It will be a crazy world though, maybe not as crazy as we think if everyone fears each other (in an odd outcome).

 

[Gdjjr]

I've discussed this before- last week, IMS, I posted an article about the amount of time cops do a particular job. Fighting crime was near the bottom of the list. It can come down to what is determined to be a criminal action. Not paying a traffic fine makes you a criminal. Ingesting a non-gov't approved substance is a criminal action. The wrong light bulbs could be considered a criminal action, the wrong commode, not wearing a mask- an improper turn is a criminal action. Even if no one is harmed in these instances. But, we have Law Enforcement officers who take it on themselves to be judge jury and executioner- I'd call that "pretty bad hombres"- there was a time when Cop was an acronym for Citizens on Patrol and also referred to (in my life time) as Peace Officers. There is no force in peace. There is no peace in force.
They have been granted "qualified immunity"- start with removing that. Secondly, stop hiring ex military from these constant wars we stay engaged in. It is drummed into them to kill- period. There have been so many stories of the over zealous cop (fearing for his life when he has an M14 weapon (SWAT) that it has become meme worthy- it has to stop. Killing family pets? Over what?

This is, allegedly, the land of the free- Liberty and Justice for all- not just the select few- Liberty is allegedly a given in this Country- Justice is allegedly blind- yet, BOTH are usurped and ignored and not by just law enFORCEment, but their bosses as well- that's why I said what I did above- organized crime. Under the color of law is not the rule of law- and that, folks, is due in no small way to the education "system" that, above all else, teaches conformity- that, in and of itself is a restriction of Liberty being taught from the get-go and the militaristic police FORCE that has the comply, or die mentality.

ALL lives matter or none do. It's time to realize that.

 

[Gdjjr]

, it always gets crazy on the ground.

Better sooner than later- kinda like breaking up is hard to do, but the longer it's put off the more it hurts.

It's already started.

That's all well and good but how many cops are in the LA area? Are they preventing crime? Apparently not. Nor in NY (where the cops have been proven to be criminals, or Chicago, which was mentioned, where the Chief got busted for DWI) the TOP cop busted for a criminal activity- what was his punishment? How about the cop that killed the guy selling onesy cigarettes in NY? Or the SWAT guy in AZ who shot an ex soldier because they surprised his family while he was sleeping and he grabbed a gun- and hadn't done a DAMN thing illegal.
Where is the Public Outcry about those "criminal activities?" Answer. NO where- sheeple know better, they could wind up dead.

 

[Gdjjr]

So, abolish? No. Redirect. Yes. If that takes defunding, so be it. They are wealth confiscators- we need wealth generators to make society work.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

We will end up with something approaching the federales of Mexico. A nominal peacekeeping force completely integrated into the local cartels.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I've discussed this before- last week, IMS, I posted an article about the amount of time cops do a particular job. Fighting crime was near the bottom of the list. It can come down to what is determined to be a criminal action. Not paying a traffic fine makes you a criminal. Ingesting a non-gov't approved substance is a criminal action. The wrong light bulbs could be considered a criminal action, the wrong commode, not wearing a mask- an improper turn is a criminal action. Even if no one is harmed in these instances. But, we have Law Enforcement officers who take it on themselves to be judge jury and executioner- I'd call that "pretty bad hombres"- there was a time when Cop was an acronym for Citizens on Patrol and also referred to (in my life time) as Peace Officers. There is no force in peace. There is no peace in force.
They have been granted "qualified immunity"- start with removing that. Secondly, stop hiring ex military from these constant wars we stay engaged in. It is drummed into them to kill- period. There have been so many stories of the over zealous cop (fearing for his life when he has an M14 weapon (SWAT) that it has become meme worthy- it has to stop. Killing family pets? Over what?

This is, allegedly, the land of the free- Liberty and Justice for all- not just the select few- Liberty is allegedly a given in this Country- Justice is allegedly blind- yet, BOTH are usurped and ignored and not by just law enFORCEment, but their bosses as well- that's why I said what I did above- organized crime. Under the color of law is not the rule of law- and that, folks, is due in no small way to the education "system" that, above all else, teaches conformity- that, in and of itself is a restriction of Liberty being taught from the get-go and the militaristic police FORCE that has the comply, or die mentality.

ALL lives matter or none do. It's time to realize that.

Cop was an acronym for CONSTABLE on Patrol. Citizen on patrol came from a bad but funny movie. Wasn't that the one with OJ Simpson?

If you think that the police are corrupt now, wait until they are paid off by communist democrats.

 

[Gdjjr]

If you think that the police are corrupt now, wait until they are paid off by communist democrats.

Pretty sure the political stripe doesn't make a lot of difference- totalitarian is totalitarian democrat or republican.

 

[Gdjjr]

Cop was an acronym for CONSTABLE on Patrol. Citizen on patrol came from a bad but funny movie. Wasn't that the one with OJ Simpson?

I have no idea what movie you're talking about- I am referring to an article in the Houston Chronicle many years ago talking about Cabs on Partol (which Houston was under taking at the time) having originally been Citizens on Patrol AND IN MY LIFETIME they were referenced as PEACE OFFICERS in the little town I call home, Pecos fucking Texas.
DO NOT presume to tell me what I know- jack ass.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Cop was an acronym for CONSTABLE on Patrol. Citizen on patrol came from a bad but funny movie. Wasn't that the one with OJ Simpson?

I have no idea what movie you're talking about- I am referring to an article in the Houston Chronicle many years ago talking about Cabs on Partol (which Houston was under taking at the time) having originally been Citizens on Patrol AND IN MY LIFETIME they were referenced as PEACE OFFICERS in the little town I call home, Pecos fucking Texas.
DO NOT presume to tell me what I know- jack ass.

What you know is just wrong.
Cop comes from Britian where they were Constables on Patrol. If you needed a police officer you would call the local constable. Or, the constable on Patrol. The term was used extensively in American cities that had police departments.

It's not surprising that peace officer would be used in Pecos Texas. The term peace officer grew out of the West. The Peacemaker is the Colt 45 six shot revolver. A Peace Officer carried a Peacemaker gun. It was the gun Wyatt Earp used as Peace Officer in Tombstone. Also called the gun that tamed the west.

Now you know the rest of the story.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Europe has all sorts of no go zones where they have ceded sovereignty to Muslims. Looks like the globalist Democrat party wants us to follow suit with blacks.

the more a country is destablized, the greater the opportunities for George Soros to indulge in currency manipulation.

 

[freyasman]

Contact Support

www.alt-market.com

From the link;
"For many years now I have been working with a group of people who have been preparing for the events that are happening today, including economic crisis, supply chain disruptions, civil unrest and government overreach. While many of these groups seek to remain private, I feel it is time for bigger discussions with the wider community on what people plan to do if the dangerous situation does not improve. In other words, are they going to work together? Or, are they going to remain isolated from each other?


This is a vital question, because it is becoming increasingly possible that a full spectrum collapse will strike the US in the near term. It is time for preppers and liberty minded people to start gauging the sentiment of the community around them and seeking out like-minded individuals. The more active the community is in its own survival, the less likely they will be to conform to draconian rules or fear.


Private groups should remain private, and so should the extent of your preps. But, it is foolish to think that you are going to survive a collapse on your own without working with others in the community. Think of it this way, if your circle of security is only the size of your property, when trouble arrives it will already be on your doorstep (in other words, you are dead if the attackers are organized and prepared). If your circle of security is your entire town or county, then when trouble arrives you might actually have time to respond.


Going “gray man” is an extremely short term solution. Eventually, you will be caught alone and unaware and then all the energy and time and money you put into your preps will have been wasted and someone else will be enjoying the fruits of your labor.


Another problem I see is that conservatives are far less adept at organization than the political left; we tend to be more spontaneous when we group together for a cause. I'm not saying we need our own Antifa or BLM, but we do need to put more effort into working together locally and minimizing our exposure to threats. Conservatives and liberty activists often feel alone, even though there are millions of us out there, and it's because we refuse to organize in any practical way for fear of ending up on a “list”.


It's the threat of being on “the list” that controls conservatives. The list doesn't even need to exist in real life and we are still dominated by it. I hear it all the time, the “nail that sticks up will get hammered down”. I say, the nail that keeps its head down is more easily stepped on.


These are some of the reasons I decided to engage with the larger community by starting a local club that discusses firearms, preparedness and current events. I put the word out in as many places as I could, including tacking up fliers around town. These days, it's hard for anyone to argue that prepping is a “silly idea” for “kooky conspiracy theorists”. We have been proven right, everyone else has been proven wrong, but that doesn't mean our work ends here; we have to continue to educate as many people as possible on how it's done while there's still time. The more we do this, the safer everyone is.


The initial response was overwhelmingly positive. A lot of people are ready for this kind of information, and setting up the discussions in a more public forum gives people a greater sense of involvement and shows them they are not alone in their concerns. To that end I decided to hold the discussion at a local public park.


Then, I started getting emails and friends of mine started getting angry Facebook responses when discussing the club..."



RTWT