Defensive use of guns.

[M14 Shooter]

Agree 100%.

I still doubt that self-defense by guns is common. It happens, but not frequently.

Far more frequently than murder, or suicide, with a firearm.

 

[Batcat]

Agree 100%.

I still doubt that self-defense by guns is common. It happens, but not frequently.

I have never had to use a gun for self defense. My mother did once during her life as has my daughter. If you find yourself frequently using a weapon for self defense you are probably doing something wrong Or bad.

 

[Blues Man]

I guess you CAN’T name a right you don’t have to be qualified and/or pay for. It’s no different then access to clean water, freedom of speech, represented in a court of law….you need to be qualified and / PAY FOR IT.

Those of us who served in the military, don’t need to take all those’s courses…you know, they paid us to get shot at.
Best training we ever had.

Go ahead, name a right you don’t have to be qualified or regulated to practice.

Really?

You have to pay to vote? How much? What qualifications are required?
You have to pay to exercise the 5th Amendment? How much? What qualifications are required?
You have to pay to exercise free speech? How much? What qualifications are required?
You have to pay for protections against illegal search and seizures? How much? What qualifications are required?

 

[Vagabond63]

So you can't refute the numbers so you ignore the source.

When it's John Lott, the source has no credibility.

You disagreed with my statement that they are one of the most law abiding groups

..and demonstrated that they are not necessarily more law abiding than the rest of American society.

 

[Blues Man]

When it's John Lott, the source has no credibility.

..and demonstrated that they are not necessarily more law abiding than the rest of American society.

So then it should be easy for you to actually refute the numbers.
And as a GROUP they are.

You can't cherry pick one data point and apply it to literally millions of people

 

[Vagabond63]

You can't cherry pick one data point and apply it to literally millions of people

That's what Lott and Kleck do, but you believe them.

 

[M14 Shooter]

So then it should be easy for you to actually refute the numbers.

Like every other troll, he's not interested in proving his claims to be true.

 

[Blues Man]

That's what Lott and Kleck do, but you believe them.

And yet you haven't proven that on this metric have you?

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

Maybe you should actually read the constitution.

You mean the part that states the right to bear arms shall not be infringed ?

 

[2aguy]

When it's John Lott, the source has no credibility.

..and demonstrated that they are not necessarily more law abiding than the rest of American society.

That's bullshit......Lott is one of the best experts on guns in the world......He began his look at guns as an anti-gunner...then, having published his landmark research, Mayor Daley, the democrat asshat, got him fired from the University of Chicago......he has sacrificed a lot for his research...you doofus.

 

[2aguy]

When it's John Lott, the source has no credibility.

..and demonstrated that they are not necessarily more law abiding than the rest of American society.

Yes...they are, you idiot....you don't know what you are talking about.

You moron......

Compared to society at large, police officers are very safe on average, and represent a significant deterrent to crime. According to a study in Police Quarterly, police committed an average of 703 crimes (including 113 firearms violations) annually from 2005-2007.[v] With 683,396 full-time law enforcement employees nationwide in 2006, there were about 102 crimes by police per 100,000. That’s a low rate of crime comparedto the U.S. population as a whole, at 3,813 crimes per hundred thousand people, which is 37 times higher than the police crime rate.[vi] But, concealed carry permit holders are even more law-abiding than government police, on average. According to economist John R. Lott, Ph.D., formerly the chief economist at the United States Sentencing Commission, it is extremely rare for concealed carry permit holders to break the law–it is difficult to think of other groups of adults anywhere in the U.S. nearly as law-abiding.[vii] For example, in Florida between June 30, 2018, and July 31, 2019, Florida revoked 1,080 concealed handgun permits, including for permit-holder misdemeanors or felonies, with 100 of these revocations eventually being overturned.[viii] This represented an annual revocation rate of 10.4 permits per 100,000.[ix] In 2018 within Texas (the last year for which data is available), 163 permit holders were

convicted of a misdemeanor or felony, representing a conviction rate of 11.5 per 100,000.[x] Combining the Florida and Texas data, concealed carry permit holders are convicted of misdemeanors and felonies at less than one-sixth the rate for police officers.[xi] Focusing only on firearms violations, among police, firearms violations occur at a rate of 16.5 per 100,000 officers. Among concealed carry permit holders in Florida and Texas, the firearms violation rate is only 2.4 per 100,000 or one-seventh of the rate for police officers. The data are similar in other states.[xii]

https://olis.oregonlegislature.gov/liz/2021R1/Downloads/PublicTestimonyDocument/6128

 

[2aguy]

That's what Lott and Kleck do, but you believe them.

No....moron, Lott didn't cherry pick, neither did Kleck. Lott started out as an anti-gunner. He was an economics professor at the University of Chicago and was tired of the actual cherry picking in the gun debate on whether implementing concealed carry reduced crime. So, you doofus, he put together a study looking at every single county in the United States to analyze, as an economist, whether crime rates changed after implementation of concealed carry.........

You idiot.

Kleck was also an anti-gunner. he wanted to see how often people used guns for self defense. He took a sample of 5,000 AMericans....a huge sample size for research of this kind.......

So effective was he in his research that bill clinton, the rapist, decided he needed to debunk his work, so he told the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice to disprove Kleck......they both independently put together their own studies ....the CDC found 1.1 defensive gun uses every year, and the Department of Justice found 1.5 million.....

Those guys were punished for their screw ups.............

You don't know what you are talking about and you are lying on top of it....

 

[Dagosa]

You mean the part that states the right to bear arms shall not be infringed ?

That’s made up shit. It doesn’t say that at all.
A phrase of an entire statement is bogus. If you can’ t state the entire 2@, you’re just making up shit.

 

[Dagosa]

You mean the part that states the right to bear arms shall not be infringed ?

You obviously don’t have a fking clue what the 2@ says.
I personally have always believed in the 2@. Entire families did. That’s why all the male members should enlist in the military then later after active duty stints, signed up for reserve and guard units. That’s what the 2@ is about. What about you. Many 2@ advocates are losers who avoid military service but live the life of chicken hawks……

 

[Dagosa]

Really?

You have to pay to vote? How much? What qualifications are required?
You have to pay to exercise the 5th Amendment? How much? What qualifications are required?
You have to pay to exercise free speech? How much? What qualifications are required?
You have to pay for protections against illegal search and seizures? How much? What qualifications are required?

you’re trolling aren’t you.
. When you register, you need to show proof of qualification.
You do know what and/or means dumbo. Maybe not. All states require proof and most legal IDs. Are they free ? Absolutely not.

You aren’t that bright are you ? Free speech is restricted and larger assembly needs a permit. Illegal search and seizure ? Get real dumbo. Any law enforcement agency can only be held accountable for such actions by legal regress….you need a lawyer and legal action in the form of civil suits to hold public officials accountable. You are a novice.



foolish, your one phone call is a lawyer, otherwise you’ll have little chance without it.


Geesus, you really didn’t expect to win this debate. You’re just trolling.

 

[Dagosa]

Really?

You have to pay to vote? How much? What qualifications are required?
You have to pay to exercise the 5th Amendment? How much? What qualifications are required?
You have to pay to exercise free speech? How much? What qualifications are required?
You have to pay for protections against illegal search and seizures? How much? What qualifications are required?

What a dumb post…

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

You obviously don’t have a fking clue what the 2@ says.
I personally have always believed in the 2@. Entire families did. That’s why all the male members should enlist in the military then later after active duty stints, signed up for reserve and guard units. That’s what the 2@ is about. What about you. Many 2@ advocates are losers who avoid military service but live the life of chicken hawks……

I've got 2 kids that are serving know. I served, my Father served, his Father and so on . I come from a military family you fucking moron. The 2nd Amendment is a check against foreign invaders and a tyrannical government. You keep saying I don't understand the 2nd Amendment but never explain. Your just babbling bullshit.

 

[Dagosa]

I've got 2 kids that are serving know. I served, my Father served, his Father and so on . I come from a military family you fucking moron. The 2nd Amendment is a check against foreign invaders and a tyrannical government. You keep saying I don't understand the 2nd Amendment but never explain. Your just babbling bullshit.

Any you still can‘t read ? You came out knowing nothing.
The 2@ is a check vs foreign powers…..why don’t you just post it instead of pretending it’s just one phrase ? You can’t get away with that shift in the military. Why now ?

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

That’s made up shit. It doesn’t say that at all.
A phrase of an entire statement is bogus. If you can’ t state the entire 2@, you’re just making up shit.

A few of the founding Fathers confirming the right of the people. I'll taking there opinion over whoever the fuck you are any day.

The said Constitution should be never construed . . . to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. Samuel Adams, Signer of the Declaration

The right . . . of bearing arms . . . is declared to be inherent in the people. Fisher Ames, A Framer of the Second Amendment in the First Congress

The advantage of being armed is an advantage which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation. . . . In the several kingdoms of Europe . . . the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. James Madison, U.S. President, Signer of the Constitution, a Framer of the Second Amendment in the first congress

To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them. Richard Henry Lee, Signer of the Declaration, A Framer of the Second Amendment in the First Congress

 

[Dagosa]

A few of the founding Fathers confirming the right of the people. I'll taking there opinion over whoever the fuck you are any day.

The said Constitution should be never construed . . . to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms. Samuel Adams, Signer of the Declaration

The right . . . of bearing arms . . . is declared to be inherent in the people. Fisher Ames, A Framer of the Second Amendment in the First Congress

The advantage of being armed is an advantage which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation. . . . In the several kingdoms of Europe . . . the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. James Madison, U.S. President, Signer of the Constitution, a Framer of the Second Amendment in the first congress

To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them. Richard Henry Lee, Signer of the Declaration, A Framer of the Second Amendment in the First Congress

A lot of babble. Now just post the 2@.