Death Panels Alive and Well

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
101,087
Reaction score
35,467
Points
2,260
Location
Brooklyn, NY
There is a certain jaundiced view, here on this board, characterized by those individuals who will defend any and every pronouncement, and directive because the origin of said device is their chosen political party or political hero.


So, earlier this year these fools pointed and cackled about those of us characterizing aspects of the so-called healthcare plan as a “Death Panel.”

Yes…you know who you are, fool.

1. First the “Death Panel cut costs as follows: “Two years ago the task force recommended that women in their 40s should no longer get routine mammograms, triggering controversy. The recommendation to avoid the PSA test is even more forceful and applies to healthy men of all ages.” Health | Healthy men shouldn't get protest test, panel says | Seattle Times Newspaper

2. Now, “Healthy men should no longer receive a PSA blood test to screen for prostate cancer because the test does not save lives overall and often leads to more tests and treatments that needlessly cause pain, impotence and incontinence in many, a key government health panel has decided.

The draft recommendation by the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force, due for official release next week, is based on the results of five well-controlled clinical trials and could substantially change the care given to men 50 and older.”Ibid.

3. Interviewed about this development, was Dr. David Samadi, a board certified urologic oncologist trained in open traditional and laparoscopic surgery and is an expert in robotic prostatectomy surgery. He is the Vice Chairman, Department of Urology, and Chief of Robotics and Minimally Invasive Surgery at the Mount Sinai Medical Center in New York City. He has dedicated his distinguished career to the early detection, diagnosis and treatment of prostate cancer and is considered one of the most prominent surgeons in his field.

a. In the interview, he expressed disappointment, if not surprise, explaining that these tests save lives. 40’s and 50’s are far from ‘old,’ and these tests are the reason why America’s medical care, in the area of cancer detection and treatment is far superior to nations with socialized medicine.

b. Dr. Samadi predicted that colonoscopies would be next on the panel’s list.

4. This development cannot be fully understood without realizing that leftist political philosophies do not honor human life. This leftist President actually appointed an advocate of widespread sterilization, and depopulation, Dr. John Holdren, as his 'science advisor.'
He enrolled Communitarians on his healthcare advisory panel, such as Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, a health policy advisor in the Office of Management and Budget and brother of Rahm Emanuel, the president's chief of staff…”is one of those responsible for inserting into the “healthcare bill” the ideas that we no longer should have rights, such as determining what care we can buy, or how long we should live, and doctors should no longer look to the Hippocratic Oath, and the particular patient, but neglect the patient in the interests of ‘social justice,’ and the society as a whole.
CPN - Tools

a. The study further explains how several provisions of Obamacare give insurers, doctors, and hospitals incentives to deny and ration health care to patients. The American Spectator : The Obamacare Disaster

b. "...a study based on data from 1993 through 1997 found lower cancer survival rates among Canadians than among Americans." Chen VW, Howe HL, Wu XC, Hotes JL, Correa CN (eds). Cancer in North America, 1993-1997. Volume Two: Mortality. Springfield, IL: North American Association of Central Cancer Registries, April 2000

Death Panels are alive and well.
 
Last edited:

Ropey

String tension is not infinite.
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2010
Messages
77,909
Reaction score
13,034
Points
2,220
I'm gonna' put that on my FaceBook for "Breast Cancer Awareness" month. You know, to increase awareness. :lol:
Excellent Idea.
The medical industry is now looking at the same response for prostate cancer.

Most men should not routinely get a widely used blood test to check for prostate cancer because it does not save lives and leads to unnecessary anxiety, surgery, and complications, a federal task force has concluded.

The US Preventive Services Task Force, which triggered a firestorm of controversy in 2009 when it raised questions about routine mammography to detect breast cancer, will propose downgrading its recommendations for prostate-specific antigen (PSA) for prostate cancer on Tuesday, wading into what is perhaps the most controversial issue in the health of men.

The task force based its draft recommendations on an exhaustive review of the latest scientific evidence, which concluded that even for younger men, the risks appeared to outweigh the benefits for those who show no signs of the disease.
Healthy men don’t need PSA test for prostate cancer, panel says

Usually no early warning signs of prostate cancer

The Center for Public Integrity: Forty percent of Medicare spending on common cancer screenings unnecessary, probe suggests
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
101,087
Reaction score
35,467
Points
2,260
Location
Brooklyn, NY
So...does this document the warnings that folks gave about ObamaCare....

....not care at all, just control of the economy based on withholding costly

medical treatment.

Those who will not get the benefits of medical care are the modern rendition of the Russian Kulaks,

who also suffered when they stood in the way of Leftist janissaries.

When will people learn what the Left is about...?
 

techieny

Conservative
Joined
Jun 19, 2011
Messages
2,553
Reaction score
621
Points
48
Oh shit I've got to work on disguising my limp!
 

Ropey

String tension is not infinite.
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2010
Messages
77,909
Reaction score
13,034
Points
2,220
So...does this document the warnings that folks gave about ObamaCare....

....not care at all, just control of the economy based on withholding costly

medical treatment.

Those who will not get the benefits of medical care are the modern rendition of the Russian Kulaks,

who also suffered when they stood in the way of Leftist janissaries.

When will people learn what the Left is about...?
When it's almost too late. American history... :)
 

Meister

Diamond Member
Staff member
Moderator
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
42,561
Reaction score
15,848
Points
2,250
Location
Conservative part of the Northwest

Sallow

The Big Bad Wolf.
Joined
Oct 4, 2010
Messages
56,532
Reaction score
6,241
Points
1,840
Location
New York City
Republican Heroine and Governor of Arizona "DeathLok" Jan Brewer back in business?

2 killed and counting!

Good job boys!

:clap:
 

Ravi

Diamond Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
90,899
Reaction score
13,994
Points
2,205
Location
Hating Hatters
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
101,087
Reaction score
35,467
Points
2,260
Location
Brooklyn, NY
:lol: It's because they were found to be ineffective.

How amusing to see you upset at the government not recommending something is done....when they do recommend something we hear cries of nanny state!

1. Did I mention that there are some doctrinaire folks who will spout the party line without resorting to actual thinking?
They claim to be amused, when they mean proselytized.
Did I leave your name out? Oops!

2. I fondly wish that, had you heard the interview with Dr. Samadi, in which he discussed fairly young men for whom it is too late, the cancer having progressed, because they failed to get an early diagnosis...my wish would be that you could incorporate said data into your philosophy.
Of course, we both know that you post would be the same....unless the Obama folks told you it was OK to disagree with the Panel.

3. This from 'Cancer survivor'..
"The free PSA test, often written PSA-f or FPSA, sometimes called PSA II, helps your urologist decide whether you need a biopsy.

Low free PSA may indicate prostate cancer. High free PSA along with other factors may indicate that you have BPH and no need of biopsy.

Combined with prostate volume, percent free PSA calculation helps reduce the number of biopsies based on "false positive" PSA test results. This may spare you an unnecessary biopsy.

If free PSA is below 7%, prostate cancer is most likely. According to American Cancer Society and National Cancer Institute, men with free PSA at 7% or lower should undergo biopsy. If biopsy is negative but free PSA remains low, repeat biopsy is in order.

If total PSA is low, rate of PSA rise over a series of tests may send a warning. PSA velocity is an independent measure of likely prostate cancer.

Remember, a single PSA test is seldom enough to call for a biopsy. A study published in JAMA (May 28, 2003) says: "An isolated elevation in PSA level should be confirmed several weeks later before proceeding with further testing, including prostate biopsy."

In 2002 a study in Finland found that "Prostate cancer probability depended most strongly on the percentage of free PSA. Total PSA, prostate volume, and DRE also contributed to prostate cancer probability, whereas age and family history of prostate cancer did not." Estimation of prostate cancer risk on the basis of total and free prostate-specific antigen, prostate volume and digital rectal examination. Eur Urol. 2002 Jun;41(6):619-26 "
Finding prostate cancer: percent free PSA test may spare you a biopsy

4. While I see a danger in one party controlling both branches of government, i.e., Obama administration, the defeat of ObamaCare is and excellent reason to look forward to total Republican control of this government in 2012.

5. This panel's recommendations are based on other than the best intents for citizens.
I hope that no one that you know or love ever takes the advice of this panel, and skips an opportunity at early diagnosis.
 

Greenbeard

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
6,871
Reaction score
1,217
Points
200
Location
New England
The draft recommendation by the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force, due for official release next week, is based on the results of five well-controlled clinical trials and could substantially change the care given to men 50 and older.”Ibid.
Good. Their job is to evaluate the clinical evidence available for preventive procedures, has been for decades.

The USPSTF was convened to rigorously evaluate clinical research in order to assess the merits of preventive measures, including screening tests, counseling, immunizations, and preventive medications.
The USPSTF comprises primary care clinicians (e.g., internists, pediatricians, family physicians, gynecologists/obstetricians, and nurses). Individual members' interests include: decision modeling and evaluation; effectiveness in clinical preventive medicine; clinical epidemiology; the prevention of high-risk behaviors in adolescents; geriatrics; and the prevention of disability in the elderly.

Current members of the Task Force are listed below. They have recognized expertise in prevention, evidence-based medicine, and primary care.

Virginia A. Moyer, M.D., M.P.H. (Chair)
Professor, Pediatrics
Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, TX
Chief, Academic Medicine Service, Texas Children's Hospital

Michael L. LeFevre, M.D., M.S.P.H. (Co-Vice Chair)
Professor, Department of Family and Community Medicine
University of Missouri School of Medicine, Columbia, MO

Albert L. Siu, M.D., M.S.P.H. (Co-Vice Chair)
Professor, Geriatrics and Palliative Medicine
Mount Sinai School of Medicine, New York, NY

Kirsten Bibbins-Domingo, Ph.D., M.D.
Associate Professor, Medicine, Epidemiology, and Biostatistics
University of California, San Francisco, CA
Co-director, UCSF Center for Vulnerable Populations
San Francisco General Hospital

Adelita Gonzales Cantu, Ph.D., R.N.
Assistant Professor, Family and Community Health Systems
University of Texas Health Science Center, San Antonio, TX

Susan J. Curry, Ph.D.
Dean, College of Public Health
Distinguished Professor, Health Management and Policy
University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA

Glenn Flores, M.D.
Professor, Pediatrics and Public Health
University of Texas Southwestern, Dallas, TX
Director, Division of General Pediatrics
UT Southwestern Medical Center and Children's Medical Center of Dallas

David C. Grossman, M.D., M.P.H.
Medical Director, Preventive Care and Senior Investigator, Center for Health Studies, Group Health Cooperative
Professor of Health Services and Adjunct Professor of Pediatrics
University of Washington, Seattle, WA

George J. Isham, M.D., M.S.
Medical Director and Chief Health Officer
HealthPartners, Minneapolis, MN

Rosanne M. Leipzig, M.D., Ph.D
Professor, Geriatrics and Adult Development, Medicine, Health Policy
Mount Sinai School of Medicine, New York, NY

Joy Melnikow, M.D., M.P.H.
Professor, Department of Family and Community Medicine
Director, Center for Healthcare Policy and Research
University of California Davis, Sacramento, CA

Bernadette Melnyk, Ph.D., R.N., C.P.N.P./P.M.H.N.P.
Associate Vice President for Health Promotion, Chief Wellness Officer, and Dean
College of Nursing
Ohio State University, Columbus, OH

Wanda K. Nicholson, M.D., M.P.H., M.B.A.
Associate Professor, Obstetrics and Gynecology
Director, Diabetes and Obesity Core Center for Women's Health Research
University of North Carolina School of Medicine, Chapel Hill, NC

Carolina Reyes, M.D., M.P.H.
Medical Director, Maternal and Fetal Medicine
Virginia Hospital Center, Arlington, VA

J. Sanford (Sandy) Schwartz, M.D., M.B.A.
Leon Hess Professor of Medicine, Health Management, and Economics
University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine and Wharton School, Philadelphia, PA

Timothy J. Wilt, M.D., M.P.H.
Professor, Department of Medicine, Minneapolis VA Medical Center
University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN
 

Jroc

יעקב כהן
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
19,799
Reaction score
6,441
Points
390
Location
Michigan
The draft recommendation by the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force, due for official release next week, is based on the results of five well-controlled clinical trials and could substantially change the care given to men 50 and older.”Ibid.
Good. Their job is to evaluate the clinical evidence available for preventive procedures, has been for decades.
Umm..so it will not up to you're own doctor anymore? that is what you want? Some government panel telling you and your doctor what procedure you can and cannot have? You're one sick puppy:cuckoo:
 

Greenbeard

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
6,871
Reaction score
1,217
Points
200
Location
New England
Umm..so it will not up to you're own doctor anymore? that is what you want? Some government panel telling you and your doctor what procedure you can and cannot have? You're one sick puppy:cuckoo:
Do you ever take off the tin foil hat? Who's telling patients or doctors what procedures they can or can't have?
 

Jroc

יעקב כהן
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
19,799
Reaction score
6,441
Points
390
Location
Michigan
Umm..so it will not up to you're own doctor anymore? that is what you want? Some government panel telling you and your doctor what procedure you can and cannot have? You're one sick puppy:cuckoo:
Do you ever take off the tin foil hat? Who's telling patients or doctors what procedures they can or can't have?
What to you think these panels are genus? anybody that will be on government health care Obamacare will have to abide by these new rules.
 

Greenbeard

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
6,871
Reaction score
1,217
Points
200
Location
New England
What to you think these panels are genus? anybody that will be on government health care Obamacare will have to abide by these new rules.
1. The task force is the same thing it's been for decades: a group of clinicians that evaluates the existing evidence on various preventive services.

2. There is no such thing as "government health care Obamacare." That's actually just a bunch of words you've strung together.

3. There are no "rules" being discussed here. Do you have any idea what this is all about?
 

Jroc

יעקב כהן
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
19,799
Reaction score
6,441
Points
390
Location
Michigan
What to you think these panels are genus? anybody that will be on government health care Obamacare will have to abide by these new rules.
1. The task force is the same thing it's been for decades: a group of clinicians that evaluates the existing evidence on various preventive services.

2. There is no such thing as "government health care Obamacare." That's actually just a bunch of words you've strung together.

3. There are no "rules" being discussed here. Do you have any idea what this is all about?
These panels will decide what the government will and will not pay for. there is no Obama care? not yet, not till after the election in 2014 when it will be fully implimented if Obama wins.
 

Greenbeard

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Messages
6,871
Reaction score
1,217
Points
200
Location
New England
These panels will decide what the government will and will not pay for.
No, the task force doesn't do that. Its recommendations don't actually map well to services covered by the public payers.

Note, however, that that's a bad thing. All payers, public or private, should be be incorporating evidence-based decision-making into coverage decisions and benefit design. However, even if they did that more it wouldn't come close to constituting "Some government panel telling you and your doctor what procedure you can and cannot have," since your insurance company choosing not to cover a procedure (or requiring greater cost-sharing for services with a limited evidence base) doesn't prevent your doctor from offering it or you from purchasing it.

there is no Obama care?
There is no "government health care Obamacare." Unless you're elderly or poor, you don't have public coverage and you're not going to. Nothing has changed.
 

New Topics

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top