Creationists' theory in detail

[james bond]

So let's get this straight...

Earth (and the universe) is 6000 years old
Men walked with dinosaurs
Santa Claus exists
Gravity was less in the past

wow.... I don't know what your religious cult is teaching you man... But it's fucked up!

It was better when you were ignoring. Eat shit and die. You are the worst. Get a room with ding. You're gone to me (ignore).

 

[Hollie]

have not lobbied for anything. I responded to a demand.

Hmm, no , you proselytized. That's a fact. Why so embarrassed of it?

You're illiterate and / or a liar. A response to a demand is NOT proselytizing.

"proselytize convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another..."

proselytize - Google Search

I did exactly the opposite. Quit being a dumb ass. At least two posters are converting you even as we speak. That's why you are trying to drag me back into this chaotic nonsense. Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear. But you make the accusation because you have two dedicated Christians that are spanking you and giving you and the other non-believers the beat down of a life-time. I guess if I were you, I'd go after the guy NOT caring whether or not you get whipped in this fight.

Adding insult to injury, most posters have either left or they are making up their minds if they weren't one way or another. I'm thinking since at least one of you non-believers has to resort to multiple accounts, you know you're not convincing anyone of your position.

“Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear.”

Such a delicate flower. You’re required to respond. You will remain until you’re excused.

The gawds command you..

And that was the first lie Satan ever told "ye shall be as gods..." Since you are a female (or have a female name) does that make you a goddette?

A life lesson for you: don’t use your fears and superstitions in attempts to intimidate others.

The two religious extremists in this thread are stereotypical of those who are too committed to childish superstitions and ”us vs. them" mentalities.

I can honestly advise that your appeals to magic and supernaturalism are tragically damaging.

My preference for discerning fact from partisan religious superstition is based on using the tools of evidence and reason that allow any objective analyst to discriminate between my position and yours. Your preference is based (as you admit here) purely on which best fits your a priori religious commitment.

“ye really need to condemn all humanity for fruit theft..."

Bulllshit Hollie. You've been throwing your weight around ever since I I came onto this thread. All I see is a scared little girl that thinks she can browbeat Christians because most of them don't fight back. You can only turn the cheek so often. Here is the bottom line:

If your position is so fragile; if it requires you to lie, intimidate, and bully people that disagree with you, it's obvious: you don't believe that claptrap any more than I do. NOBODY asked you to believe, join, or support anything. You're getting spanked by those other guys. But, don't kid yourself. I've forgotten more than you are capable of learning. For, if your belief system requires you to be disrespectful and bully people; if it means nobody can respectfully disagree with you; when it means you are lying and relying on delusional liars to back you up, then YOU have a serious problem. My specific degree is in Christian Education. As a counselor, I'm trained to recognize emotional disorders. And you figure it out.

You've lied about me; bullied me and tried to infer that anyone that don't buy into a B.S. ideology of nothingness is lower on the food chain than you. Well surprise. You don't have a monopoly on human virtue. Anybody that buys into that ineffective elixir you're selling is two french fries short of a happy meal and should sue their brains for non support. The bottom line of all bottom lines has not changed: Time, space, and matter have an origination point. You are too freaking stupid to admit your theories don't have an ultimate answer to that. You take your beliefs on faith. So you believe in myths, fallacies, logical fallacies, and a point of view that has been discredited so many times that all I feel for you is pity.

But, don't flatter yourself. If your muscles were as big as your mouth, you'd be the strongest person on earth. Now, if that's not enough to convince the posters here that I am not proselytizing, lobbying for or in any way encouraging you to believe in anything, then that individual is a total idiot. Period. Believe. Don't believe. If you die tonight, it's YOUR soul that you should consider, not which Christian you can attack... and BTW, to what end? All this bandwidth and all you've done is make people mad. Who in the HELL would want to be part of such a belief system that the only way it can exist is to piss people off? I'm going to get down to your level and respond in the language you understand. Answer me that. Who would want to belong to any belief system that requires people to be forced into believing? Who wants to belong to anything where you have to belittle others and you cannot use reason, but rather condescension? Are you really that stupid or are you looking for help? I can't read your mind.

Look, if I die tomorrow and there is a God and I followed his laws to the best of my ability, then I will be rewarded in Heaven far beyond what I could imagine. If God does not exist and I take my last breath and there is nothing, then I lost NOTHING. I lived a good life, tried to be a friend and a confidant to others and, rather exist to piss other people off, I'm more likely to spend my time helping other people. I've taken children into my home as a foster parent; kept a 94 year old woman in my home for free because her family wouldn't take care of her. It's not much, but it's an investment in my own mental well being and I feel good enough about myself that I don't have to waste every freaking day trying to shove a B.S. line down peoples throats that I, myself, couldn't believe. And it is so blatantly obvious: You don't believe what you spew. THAT is why you cannot let others respectfully disagree with you without the bullying, condescension, and absolute waste of bandwidth to soothe your narcissistic ego. You're wrong. I know you're wrong; the Christians witnessing to you know you're wrong; you know you're wrong and if you needed a friend, the half wits that would give your posts a thumbs up wouldn't even bother mentioning you if you died tonight. But, if you lived in my neighborhood, I'd be the FIRST person you'd call for help. So, waste some more bandwidth. Try to come up with some good zingers. BTW, you know the definition of an idiot? It's someone that does the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result. So, your best insult won't change my mind and it hasn't won you any new converts. It's only allowed you to wallow in your own misery. You're defeated. Remember: if you ignore me, I have no reason to come back. So, why would you want me to? You're begging for attention and for help. And if I'm wrong, this should be my last post here and you can forget me. Otherwise, I'm living in your head, rent free because you need my validation. Think about it before you start typing.

Absolutely classic case of Pascal's Wager.

"So, whether I'm right or wrong in my beliefs, I've got nothin' to lose. If I'm right, hooray for me and if I'm wrong, no loss."

Pascal's Wager-- the underlying threat of the theistic argument-- "Gamble that there is a god on the chance he will not send you to an eternity of torture."

Fallacies:

a. What if you have chosen the wrong gods? You will spend an eternity apart from your “real” gods for making such an egregious error

b. "Betting" on gods displays prideful ego and might anger the gods, and you might spend eternity apart from them for making such an egregious error

c. The god might prefer courage of one's convictions instead of cowardice and self-deceit, in which case you might spend eternity apart from them for making such an egregious error

d. What if the gods deplore such self-serving narcissism and instead embraces the atheist for not succumbing to threats of a human nature? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

e. What if the gods are revolted by the very suggestion that there is something like an "eternal punishment"? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

Otherwise, you might want to consider where your hate / self-hate comes from. You might find this odd, but I see a need for religion. If it helps to control folks like you, maybe there's a benefit.

So… let's look at this from another perspective. When people say they believe in an entity that cannot be seen, cannot be felt, exists outside of the natural realm in an asserted supernatural realm, that has attributes we need to worship but cannot understand or even describe, who lives in eternity in both directions, who can create existence from nothing and is uncreated himself and uses methods and means we can never know or hope to understand, that stands outside proof which is exactly why it's for certain he exists-- I would say that qualifies as being under a delusion.



You will post another long, tedious, self-serving diatribe wherein you anoint yourself the god of being beneficent and helpful. I have no reason to believe any of it is true but if you're hoping to curry favor with you gods, consider ritual sacrifice of lambs or other livestock or maybe sacrifice a virgin. (((((SHAKING)))))

The gawds command you.

You claim there are no gods. So, what is in it for you to try and convert me? You're afraid that I'm right. I just have no interest in convincing you. That is why I haven't argued specifics. As Jefferson would have said it does me no injury if my neighbor says there are twenty gods or no god (paraphrasing, most likely.) Nothing I've done is self serving. It is a response to you... and one you FEAR. For now, I've proven my point. I'm going to continue living in your head rent free while you create straw man arguments to argue against me with. I had but one point to make when I came here. Your claim is that existence comes from nothing and the onus has been on you to prove it. But, you can't.

Who are you really trying to convince? Me or you?

You poor, dear. I understand you’re incensed that the preaching / proselytizing is not going well. Are you on a commission basis?

Your issue is that you feel an entitlement to press your religious agenda and you recoil in panic when that agenda is challenged.

It's really a simple matter to come to conclusions. You choose to reject reason and rationality and use your religion as a bloody truncheon to try and force your views on others. That’s pretty stereotypical as is the “I’ll believe just in case”, mantra.

The gods prefer courage of conviction.

 

[RWS]

So let's get this straight...

Earth (and the universe) is 6000 years old
Men walked with dinosaurs
Santa Claus exists
Gravity was less in the past

wow.... I don't know what your religious cult is teaching you man... But it's fucked up!

It was better when you were ignoring. Eat shit and die. You are the worst. Get a room with ding. You're gone to me (ignore).

Sorry, but it was you that was ignoring. You said you wouldn't post anymore. You came back here with some some friends to back you up.

You're a coward, you need bullies to back you up. And ding is finally listening to reason, so he's a hero.

 

[Hollie]

Gravity was less in the past? That’s why people lived for hundreds of years?

We are creatures of blood. It is easier for the blood to circulate and less work on the heart with less gravity. Pteranodon's were able to fly with less gravity.

You know, you may be right. Pteranodons flying across the landscape 6,000 years could extend their flight time in low gravity.

Proof again that those evilutionist atheist scientists are wrong.

Thanks,

Thanks again.

 

[Hollie]

Page 43 and we have a partial transcript of that long awaited “General Theory of Supernatural Creation”

The theory (so far), includes lower gravity and Pteranodons 6,000 years ago.

There must be more coming?

 

[RWS]

Imagine they played baseball back then in the lower gravity?

Humans vs dinosaurs... 2000ft home runs!

 

[RWS]

Page 43 and we have a partial transcript of that long awaited “General Theory of Supernatural Creation”

The theory (so far), includes lower gravity and Pteranodons 6,000 years ago.

There must be more coming?

Flat earth... I kid, but probably, knowing him...

 

[RWS]

Imagine they played baseball back then in the lower gravity?

Humans vs dinosaurs... 2000ft home runs!

I think the best hitters would be the Stegosaurus's. They got the spikes on the tails to wrap around and hit it...

Someone outside of Nintendo should make a video game with dino's as baseball players... that's awesome.

But use reality gravity. Not his bullshit..

 

[Porter Rockwell]

have not lobbied for anything. I responded to a demand.

Hmm, no , you proselytized. That's a fact. Why so embarrassed of it?

You're illiterate and / or a liar. A response to a demand is NOT proselytizing.

"proselytize convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another..."

proselytize - Google Search

I did exactly the opposite. Quit being a dumb ass. At least two posters are converting you even as we speak. That's why you are trying to drag me back into this chaotic nonsense. Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear. But you make the accusation because you have two dedicated Christians that are spanking you and giving you and the other non-believers the beat down of a life-time. I guess if I were you, I'd go after the guy NOT caring whether or not you get whipped in this fight.

Adding insult to injury, most posters have either left or they are making up their minds if they weren't one way or another. I'm thinking since at least one of you non-believers has to resort to multiple accounts, you know you're not convincing anyone of your position.

“Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear.”

Such a delicate flower. You’re required to respond. You will remain until you’re excused.

The gawds command you..

And that was the first lie Satan ever told "ye shall be as gods..." Since you are a female (or have a female name) does that make you a goddette?

A life lesson for you: don’t use your fears and superstitions in attempts to intimidate others.

The two religious extremists in this thread are stereotypical of those who are too committed to childish superstitions and ”us vs. them" mentalities.

I can honestly advise that your appeals to magic and supernaturalism are tragically damaging.

My preference for discerning fact from partisan religious superstition is based on using the tools of evidence and reason that allow any objective analyst to discriminate between my position and yours. Your preference is based (as you admit here) purely on which best fits your a priori religious commitment.

“ye really need to condemn all humanity for fruit theft..."

Bulllshit Hollie. You've been throwing your weight around ever since I I came onto this thread. All I see is a scared little girl that thinks she can browbeat Christians because most of them don't fight back. You can only turn the cheek so often. Here is the bottom line:

If your position is so fragile; if it requires you to lie, intimidate, and bully people that disagree with you, it's obvious: you don't believe that claptrap any more than I do. NOBODY asked you to believe, join, or support anything. You're getting spanked by those other guys. But, don't kid yourself. I've forgotten more than you are capable of learning. For, if your belief system requires you to be disrespectful and bully people; if it means nobody can respectfully disagree with you; when it means you are lying and relying on delusional liars to back you up, then YOU have a serious problem. My specific degree is in Christian Education. As a counselor, I'm trained to recognize emotional disorders. And you figure it out.

You've lied about me; bullied me and tried to infer that anyone that don't buy into a B.S. ideology of nothingness is lower on the food chain than you. Well surprise. You don't have a monopoly on human virtue. Anybody that buys into that ineffective elixir you're selling is two french fries short of a happy meal and should sue their brains for non support. The bottom line of all bottom lines has not changed: Time, space, and matter have an origination point. You are too freaking stupid to admit your theories don't have an ultimate answer to that. You take your beliefs on faith. So you believe in myths, fallacies, logical fallacies, and a point of view that has been discredited so many times that all I feel for you is pity.

But, don't flatter yourself. If your muscles were as big as your mouth, you'd be the strongest person on earth. Now, if that's not enough to convince the posters here that I am not proselytizing, lobbying for or in any way encouraging you to believe in anything, then that individual is a total idiot. Period. Believe. Don't believe. If you die tonight, it's YOUR soul that you should consider, not which Christian you can attack... and BTW, to what end? All this bandwidth and all you've done is make people mad. Who in the HELL would want to be part of such a belief system that the only way it can exist is to piss people off? I'm going to get down to your level and respond in the language you understand. Answer me that. Who would want to belong to any belief system that requires people to be forced into believing? Who wants to belong to anything where you have to belittle others and you cannot use reason, but rather condescension? Are you really that stupid or are you looking for help? I can't read your mind.

Look, if I die tomorrow and there is a God and I followed his laws to the best of my ability, then I will be rewarded in Heaven far beyond what I could imagine. If God does not exist and I take my last breath and there is nothing, then I lost NOTHING. I lived a good life, tried to be a friend and a confidant to others and, rather exist to piss other people off, I'm more likely to spend my time helping other people. I've taken children into my home as a foster parent; kept a 94 year old woman in my home for free because her family wouldn't take care of her. It's not much, but it's an investment in my own mental well being and I feel good enough about myself that I don't have to waste every freaking day trying to shove a B.S. line down peoples throats that I, myself, couldn't believe. And it is so blatantly obvious: You don't believe what you spew. THAT is why you cannot let others respectfully disagree with you without the bullying, condescension, and absolute waste of bandwidth to soothe your narcissistic ego. You're wrong. I know you're wrong; the Christians witnessing to you know you're wrong; you know you're wrong and if you needed a friend, the half wits that would give your posts a thumbs up wouldn't even bother mentioning you if you died tonight. But, if you lived in my neighborhood, I'd be the FIRST person you'd call for help. So, waste some more bandwidth. Try to come up with some good zingers. BTW, you know the definition of an idiot? It's someone that does the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result. So, your best insult won't change my mind and it hasn't won you any new converts. It's only allowed you to wallow in your own misery. You're defeated. Remember: if you ignore me, I have no reason to come back. So, why would you want me to? You're begging for attention and for help. And if I'm wrong, this should be my last post here and you can forget me. Otherwise, I'm living in your head, rent free because you need my validation. Think about it before you start typing.

Absolutely classic case of Pascal's Wager.

"So, whether I'm right or wrong in my beliefs, I've got nothin' to lose. If I'm right, hooray for me and if I'm wrong, no loss."

Pascal's Wager-- the underlying threat of the theistic argument-- "Gamble that there is a god on the chance he will not send you to an eternity of torture."

Fallacies:

a. What if you have chosen the wrong gods? You will spend an eternity apart from your “real” gods for making such an egregious error

b. "Betting" on gods displays prideful ego and might anger the gods, and you might spend eternity apart from them for making such an egregious error

c. The god might prefer courage of one's convictions instead of cowardice and self-deceit, in which case you might spend eternity apart from them for making such an egregious error

d. What if the gods deplore such self-serving narcissism and instead embraces the atheist for not succumbing to threats of a human nature? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

e. What if the gods are revolted by the very suggestion that there is something like an "eternal punishment"? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

Otherwise, you might want to consider where your hate / self-hate comes from. You might find this odd, but I see a need for religion. If it helps to control folks like you, maybe there's a benefit.

So… let's look at this from another perspective. When people say they believe in an entity that cannot be seen, cannot be felt, exists outside of the natural realm in an asserted supernatural realm, that has attributes we need to worship but cannot understand or even describe, who lives in eternity in both directions, who can create existence from nothing and is uncreated himself and uses methods and means we can never know or hope to understand, that stands outside proof which is exactly why it's for certain he exists-- I would say that qualifies as being under a delusion.



You will post another long, tedious, self-serving diatribe wherein you anoint yourself the god of being beneficent and helpful. I have no reason to believe any of it is true but if you're hoping to curry favor with you gods, consider ritual sacrifice of lambs or other livestock or maybe sacrifice a virgin. (((((SHAKING)))))

The gawds command you.

You claim there are no gods. So, what is in it for you to try and convert me? You're afraid that I'm right. I just have no interest in convincing you. That is why I haven't argued specifics. As Jefferson would have said it does me no injury if my neighbor says there are twenty gods or no god (paraphrasing, most likely.) Nothing I've done is self serving. It is a response to you... and one you FEAR. For now, I've proven my point. I'm going to continue living in your head rent free while you create straw man arguments to argue against me with. I had but one point to make when I came here. Your claim is that existence comes from nothing and the onus has been on you to prove it. But, you can't.

Who are you really trying to convince? Me or you?

You poor, dear. I understand you’re incensed that the preaching / proselytizing is not going well. Are you on a commission basis?

Your issue is that you feel an entitlement to press your religious agenda and you recoil in panic when that agenda is challenged.

It's really a simple matter to come to conclusions. You choose to reject reason and rationality and use your religion as a bloody truncheon to try and force your views on others. That’s pretty stereotypical as is the “I’ll believe just in case”, mantra.

The gods prefer courage of conviction.

If you continue to look in the mirror and tell yourself that every day, you will make a lot of progress in your life. You wrote your own script better than anyone else could. Now repeat it every day and take your advice. God Bless

 

[james bond]

I don't think an austronaut will agree with you, after he had to live a longer time without gravity. I fear our bodies get damned serios problems under such living conditions. We need gravity.

You're changing what I said just to show what you want to believe. One needs to understand gravity and it's a force, if it is a "force," that many of us do not understand. Even the scientists do not understand it although we can measure it quite accurately in most places in the universe with Newton's equation. Lets' see how you do with these simple questions. I drop a hammer and a feather at the same time from 5 feet high. Which will hit the ground first and why?

Next, I drop a 3 lb ball from 5 feet high and it hits the ground. Afterward, I drop the same ball from 10 feet high. Are the balls traveling at the same speed when they hit the ground and why?

ETA: I won't be mocked by an atheist who doesn't understand science such as that low brow internet atheist RWS. They base their religious beliefs of no God on science and yet they're the ones on the internet with some of the worst understanding of science.

 

[james bond]

Page 43 and we have a partial transcript of that long awaited “General Theory of Supernatural Creation”

The theory (so far), includes lower gravity and Pteranodons 6,000 years ago.

There must be more coming?

Answer my questions in post #850 then. Let's see what you know about gravity.

 

[Hollie]

have not lobbied for anything. I responded to a demand.

Hmm, no , you proselytized. That's a fact. Why so embarrassed of it?

You're illiterate and / or a liar. A response to a demand is NOT proselytizing.

"proselytize convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another..."

proselytize - Google Search

I did exactly the opposite. Quit being a dumb ass. At least two posters are converting you even as we speak. That's why you are trying to drag me back into this chaotic nonsense. Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear. But you make the accusation because you have two dedicated Christians that are spanking you and giving you and the other non-believers the beat down of a life-time. I guess if I were you, I'd go after the guy NOT caring whether or not you get whipped in this fight.

Adding insult to injury, most posters have either left or they are making up their minds if they weren't one way or another. I'm thinking since at least one of you non-believers has to resort to multiple accounts, you know you're not convincing anyone of your position.

“Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear.”

Such a delicate flower. You’re required to respond. You will remain until you’re excused.

The gawds command you..

And that was the first lie Satan ever told "ye shall be as gods..." Since you are a female (or have a female name) does that make you a goddette?

A life lesson for you: don’t use your fears and superstitions in attempts to intimidate others.

The two religious extremists in this thread are stereotypical of those who are too committed to childish superstitions and ”us vs. them" mentalities.

I can honestly advise that your appeals to magic and supernaturalism are tragically damaging.

My preference for discerning fact from partisan religious superstition is based on using the tools of evidence and reason that allow any objective analyst to discriminate between my position and yours. Your preference is based (as you admit here) purely on which best fits your a priori religious commitment.

“ye really need to condemn all humanity for fruit theft..."

Bulllshit Hollie. You've been throwing your weight around ever since I I came onto this thread. All I see is a scared little girl that thinks she can browbeat Christians because most of them don't fight back. You can only turn the cheek so often. Here is the bottom line:

If your position is so fragile; if it requires you to lie, intimidate, and bully people that disagree with you, it's obvious: you don't believe that claptrap any more than I do. NOBODY asked you to believe, join, or support anything. You're getting spanked by those other guys. But, don't kid yourself. I've forgotten more than you are capable of learning. For, if your belief system requires you to be disrespectful and bully people; if it means nobody can respectfully disagree with you; when it means you are lying and relying on delusional liars to back you up, then YOU have a serious problem. My specific degree is in Christian Education. As a counselor, I'm trained to recognize emotional disorders. And you figure it out.

You've lied about me; bullied me and tried to infer that anyone that don't buy into a B.S. ideology of nothingness is lower on the food chain than you. Well surprise. You don't have a monopoly on human virtue. Anybody that buys into that ineffective elixir you're selling is two french fries short of a happy meal and should sue their brains for non support. The bottom line of all bottom lines has not changed: Time, space, and matter have an origination point. You are too freaking stupid to admit your theories don't have an ultimate answer to that. You take your beliefs on faith. So you believe in myths, fallacies, logical fallacies, and a point of view that has been discredited so many times that all I feel for you is pity.

But, don't flatter yourself. If your muscles were as big as your mouth, you'd be the strongest person on earth. Now, if that's not enough to convince the posters here that I am not proselytizing, lobbying for or in any way encouraging you to believe in anything, then that individual is a total idiot. Period. Believe. Don't believe. If you die tonight, it's YOUR soul that you should consider, not which Christian you can attack... and BTW, to what end? All this bandwidth and all you've done is make people mad. Who in the HELL would want to be part of such a belief system that the only way it can exist is to piss people off? I'm going to get down to your level and respond in the language you understand. Answer me that. Who would want to belong to any belief system that requires people to be forced into believing? Who wants to belong to anything where you have to belittle others and you cannot use reason, but rather condescension? Are you really that stupid or are you looking for help? I can't read your mind.

Look, if I die tomorrow and there is a God and I followed his laws to the best of my ability, then I will be rewarded in Heaven far beyond what I could imagine. If God does not exist and I take my last breath and there is nothing, then I lost NOTHING. I lived a good life, tried to be a friend and a confidant to others and, rather exist to piss other people off, I'm more likely to spend my time helping other people. I've taken children into my home as a foster parent; kept a 94 year old woman in my home for free because her family wouldn't take care of her. It's not much, but it's an investment in my own mental well being and I feel good enough about myself that I don't have to waste every freaking day trying to shove a B.S. line down peoples throats that I, myself, couldn't believe. And it is so blatantly obvious: You don't believe what you spew. THAT is why you cannot let others respectfully disagree with you without the bullying, condescension, and absolute waste of bandwidth to soothe your narcissistic ego. You're wrong. I know you're wrong; the Christians witnessing to you know you're wrong; you know you're wrong and if you needed a friend, the half wits that would give your posts a thumbs up wouldn't even bother mentioning you if you died tonight. But, if you lived in my neighborhood, I'd be the FIRST person you'd call for help. So, waste some more bandwidth. Try to come up with some good zingers. BTW, you know the definition of an idiot? It's someone that does the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result. So, your best insult won't change my mind and it hasn't won you any new converts. It's only allowed you to wallow in your own misery. You're defeated. Remember: if you ignore me, I have no reason to come back. So, why would you want me to? You're begging for attention and for help. And if I'm wrong, this should be my last post here and you can forget me. Otherwise, I'm living in your head, rent free because you need my validation. Think about it before you start typing.

Absolutely classic case of Pascal's Wager.

"So, whether I'm right or wrong in my beliefs, I've got nothin' to lose. If I'm right, hooray for me and if I'm wrong, no loss."

Pascal's Wager-- the underlying threat of the theistic argument-- "Gamble that there is a god on the chance he will not send you to an eternity of torture."

Fallacies:

a. What if you have chosen the wrong gods? You will spend an eternity apart from your “real” gods for making such an egregious error

b. "Betting" on gods displays prideful ego and might anger the gods, and you might spend eternity apart from them for making such an egregious error

c. The god might prefer courage of one's convictions instead of cowardice and self-deceit, in which case you might spend eternity apart from them for making such an egregious error

d. What if the gods deplore such self-serving narcissism and instead embraces the atheist for not succumbing to threats of a human nature? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

e. What if the gods are revolted by the very suggestion that there is something like an "eternal punishment"? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

Otherwise, you might want to consider where your hate / self-hate comes from. You might find this odd, but I see a need for religion. If it helps to control folks like you, maybe there's a benefit.

So… let's look at this from another perspective. When people say they believe in an entity that cannot be seen, cannot be felt, exists outside of the natural realm in an asserted supernatural realm, that has attributes we need to worship but cannot understand or even describe, who lives in eternity in both directions, who can create existence from nothing and is uncreated himself and uses methods and means we can never know or hope to understand, that stands outside proof which is exactly why it's for certain he exists-- I would say that qualifies as being under a delusion.



You will post another long, tedious, self-serving diatribe wherein you anoint yourself the god of being beneficent and helpful. I have no reason to believe any of it is true but if you're hoping to curry favor with you gods, consider ritual sacrifice of lambs or other livestock or maybe sacrifice a virgin. (((((SHAKING)))))

The gawds command you.

You claim there are no gods. So, what is in it for you to try and convert me? You're afraid that I'm right. I just have no interest in convincing you. That is why I haven't argued specifics. As Jefferson would have said it does me no injury if my neighbor says there are twenty gods or no god (paraphrasing, most likely.) Nothing I've done is self serving. It is a response to you... and one you FEAR. For now, I've proven my point. I'm going to continue living in your head rent free while you create straw man arguments to argue against me with. I had but one point to make when I came here. Your claim is that existence comes from nothing and the onus has been on you to prove it. But, you can't.

Who are you really trying to convince? Me or you?

You poor, dear. I understand you’re incensed that the preaching / proselytizing is not going well. Are you on a commission basis?

Your issue is that you feel an entitlement to press your religious agenda and you recoil in panic when that agenda is challenged.

It's really a simple matter to come to conclusions. You choose to reject reason and rationality and use your religion as a bloody truncheon to try and force your views on others. That’s pretty stereotypical as is the “I’ll believe just in case”, mantra.

The gods prefer courage of conviction.

If you continue to look in the mirror and tell yourself that every day, you will make a lot of progress in your life. You wrote your own script better than anyone else could. Now repeat it every day and take your advice. God Bless

What makes you think the gods have not already blessed me?

You seem to presume a position of speaking on behalf of the gods even though you admit you’re a believer “just in case”. That might suggest to the gods that you’re just being self-serving and manipulative.

The gods don’t like that.

 

[Hollie]

Page 43 and we have a partial transcript of that long awaited “General Theory of Supernatural Creation”

The theory (so far), includes lower gravity and Pteranodons 6,000 years ago.

There must be more coming?

Answer my questions in post #850 then. Let's see what you know about gravity.

I would need a specific set of circumstances to address your questions. Do your questions apply to our environment currently or to conditions 6,000 years ago during lower gravity.

That’s relevant because if the evilutionist atheist scientists are fooling us about gravity bending light that reaches us from stars millions of light years away, (gravitational lensing), then we need to correct those errors. What do the Bibles tell us about gravitational lensing?

 

[BreezeWood]

have not lobbied for anything. I responded to a demand.

Hmm, no , you proselytized. That's a fact. Why so embarrassed of it?

You're illiterate and / or a liar. A response to a demand is NOT proselytizing.

"proselytize convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another..."

proselytize - Google Search

I did exactly the opposite. Quit being a dumb ass. At least two posters are converting you even as we speak. That's why you are trying to drag me back into this chaotic nonsense. Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear. But you make the accusation because you have two dedicated Christians that are spanking you and giving you and the other non-believers the beat down of a life-time. I guess if I were you, I'd go after the guy NOT caring whether or not you get whipped in this fight.

Adding insult to injury, most posters have either left or they are making up their minds if they weren't one way or another. I'm thinking since at least one of you non-believers has to resort to multiple accounts, you know you're not convincing anyone of your position.

“Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear.”

Such a delicate flower. You’re required to respond. You will remain until you’re excused.

The gawds command you..

And that was the first lie Satan ever told "ye shall be as gods..." Since you are a female (or have a female name) does that make you a goddette?

A life lesson for you: don’t use your fears and superstitions in attempts to intimidate others.

The two religious extremists in this thread are stereotypical of those who are too committed to childish superstitions and ”us vs. them" mentalities.

I can honestly advise that your appeals to magic and supernaturalism are tragically damaging.

My preference for discerning fact from partisan religious superstition is based on using the tools of evidence and reason that allow any objective analyst to discriminate between my position and yours. Your preference is based (as you admit here) purely on which best fits your a priori religious commitment.

“ye really need to condemn all humanity for fruit theft..."

Bulllshit Hollie. You've been throwing your weight around ever since I I came onto this thread. All I see is a scared little girl that thinks she can browbeat Christians because most of them don't fight back. You can only turn the cheek so often. Here is the bottom line:

If your position is so fragile; if it requires you to lie, intimidate, and bully people that disagree with you, it's obvious: you don't believe that claptrap any more than I do. NOBODY asked you to believe, join, or support anything. You're getting spanked by those other guys. But, don't kid yourself. I've forgotten more than you are capable of learning. For, if your belief system requires you to be disrespectful and bully people; if it means nobody can respectfully disagree with you; when it means you are lying and relying on delusional liars to back you up, then YOU have a serious problem. My specific degree is in Christian Education. As a counselor, I'm trained to recognize emotional disorders. And you figure it out.

You've lied about me; bullied me and tried to infer that anyone that don't buy into a B.S. ideology of nothingness is lower on the food chain than you. Well surprise. You don't have a monopoly on human virtue. Anybody that buys into that ineffective elixir you're selling is two french fries short of a happy meal and should sue their brains for non support. The bottom line of all bottom lines has not changed: Time, space, and matter have an origination point. You are too freaking stupid to admit your theories don't have an ultimate answer to that. You take your beliefs on faith. So you believe in myths, fallacies, logical fallacies, and a point of view that has been discredited so many times that all I feel for you is pity.

But, don't flatter yourself. If your muscles were as big as your mouth, you'd be the strongest person on earth. Now, if that's not enough to convince the posters here that I am not proselytizing, lobbying for or in any way encouraging you to believe in anything, then that individual is a total idiot. Period. Believe. Don't believe. If you die tonight, it's YOUR soul that you should consider, not which Christian you can attack... and BTW, to what end? All this bandwidth and all you've done is make people mad. Who in the HELL would want to be part of such a belief system that the only way it can exist is to piss people off? I'm going to get down to your level and respond in the language you understand. Answer me that. Who would want to belong to any belief system that requires people to be forced into believing? Who wants to belong to anything where you have to belittle others and you cannot use reason, but rather condescension? Are you really that stupid or are you looking for help? I can't read your mind.

Look, if I die tomorrow and there is a God and I followed his laws to the best of my ability, then I will be rewarded in Heaven far beyond what I could imagine. If God does not exist and I take my last breath and there is nothing, then I lost NOTHING. I lived a good life, tried to be a friend and a confidant to others and, rather exist to piss other people off, I'm more likely to spend my time helping other people. I've taken children into my home as a foster parent; kept a 94 year old woman in my home for free because her family wouldn't take care of her. It's not much, but it's an investment in my own mental well being and I feel good enough about myself that I don't have to waste every freaking day trying to shove a B.S. line down peoples throats that I, myself, couldn't believe. And it is so blatantly obvious: You don't believe what you spew. THAT is why you cannot let others respectfully disagree with you without the bullying, condescension, and absolute waste of bandwidth to soothe your narcissistic ego. You're wrong. I know you're wrong; the Christians witnessing to you know you're wrong; you know you're wrong and if you needed a friend, the half wits that would give your posts a thumbs up wouldn't even bother mentioning you if you died tonight. But, if you lived in my neighborhood, I'd be the FIRST person you'd call for help. So, waste some more bandwidth. Try to come up with some good zingers. BTW, you know the definition of an idiot? It's someone that does the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result. So, your best insult won't change my mind and it hasn't won you any new converts. It's only allowed you to wallow in your own misery. You're defeated. Remember: if you ignore me, I have no reason to come back. So, why would you want me to? You're begging for attention and for help. And if I'm wrong, this should be my last post here and you can forget me. Otherwise, I'm living in your head, rent free because you need my validation. Think about it before you start typing.

.

Look, if I die tomorrow and there is a God and I followed his their laws to the best of my ability, then I will be rewarded in Heaven far beyond what I could imagine.

if that were true rockwell, following their law you would know better than read the christian bible and live its history of persecution and victimization of the innocent - what reward can there be in remaining a sinner anything including failure would be better than that.

Every time you tangle with me and start getting you hind quarters kicked, you bring in your multiple personalities under different accounts - and now more than one poster sees it for what it is. Your blathering needs validation, so you can create as many board personalities as you like. What you say is meaningless and not worthy of any response... except to remind you that you cannot sustain honest discourse. At least you have one proselyte.

.

and now more than one poster sees it for what it is.

no, you and your gang haven't seen the light of day for so long a candlestick would render you asunder your lack of rapport.

I don't have a gang; one account and no back up. I don't know anybody here. When I was much younger there was a guy on the radio in Knoxville, Tennessee. He did about three separate and distinct voices and held entire conversations for a couple of hours at a time. I remember that one of the characters was "Old Man Schultz." You remind me of him. Your "gang" is one guy - but, that one you did every day back on that other religion thread (that went 1200 or posts) took a lot of your time. You do the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result.

and now more than one poster sees it for what it is.

I don't have a gang; one account and no back up.

shocking -

what is remarkable is that your gang all have the same delusions and share them together as though you think you have hit a gold mine ...

Having peace through the storm is hitting a gold mine. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Where do you draw your strength from?

Having peace through the storm is hitting a gold mine. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Where do you draw your strength from?

by not being brain dead - through christ - meaning through yourself ... literally, start living a real life.

the goal is to triumph over evil for admission to the Everlasting, the religion of antiquity that's all one needs for a never ending quest till the end on planet Earth and the opportunities offered through the natural environment.

the best outcome for the textural desert religions as they are interpreted by the fallen is a bonfire.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

have not lobbied for anything. I responded to a demand.

Hmm, no , you proselytized. That's a fact. Why so embarrassed of it?

You're illiterate and / or a liar. A response to a demand is NOT proselytizing.

"proselytize convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another..."

proselytize - Google Search

I did exactly the opposite. Quit being a dumb ass. At least two posters are converting you even as we speak. That's why you are trying to drag me back into this chaotic nonsense. Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear. But you make the accusation because you have two dedicated Christians that are spanking you and giving you and the other non-believers the beat down of a life-time. I guess if I were you, I'd go after the guy NOT caring whether or not you get whipped in this fight.

Adding insult to injury, most posters have either left or they are making up their minds if they weren't one way or another. I'm thinking since at least one of you non-believers has to resort to multiple accounts, you know you're not convincing anyone of your position.

“Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear.”

Such a delicate flower. You’re required to respond. You will remain until you’re excused.

The gawds command you..

And that was the first lie Satan ever told "ye shall be as gods..." Since you are a female (or have a female name) does that make you a goddette?

A life lesson for you: don’t use your fears and superstitions in attempts to intimidate others.

The two religious extremists in this thread are stereotypical of those who are too committed to childish superstitions and ”us vs. them" mentalities.

I can honestly advise that your appeals to magic and supernaturalism are tragically damaging.

My preference for discerning fact from partisan religious superstition is based on using the tools of evidence and reason that allow any objective analyst to discriminate between my position and yours. Your preference is based (as you admit here) purely on which best fits your a priori religious commitment.

“ye really need to condemn all humanity for fruit theft..."

Bulllshit Hollie. You've been throwing your weight around ever since I I came onto this thread. All I see is a scared little girl that thinks she can browbeat Christians because most of them don't fight back. You can only turn the cheek so often. Here is the bottom line:

If your position is so fragile; if it requires you to lie, intimidate, and bully people that disagree with you, it's obvious: you don't believe that claptrap any more than I do. NOBODY asked you to believe, join, or support anything. You're getting spanked by those other guys. But, don't kid yourself. I've forgotten more than you are capable of learning. For, if your belief system requires you to be disrespectful and bully people; if it means nobody can respectfully disagree with you; when it means you are lying and relying on delusional liars to back you up, then YOU have a serious problem. My specific degree is in Christian Education. As a counselor, I'm trained to recognize emotional disorders. And you figure it out.

You've lied about me; bullied me and tried to infer that anyone that don't buy into a B.S. ideology of nothingness is lower on the food chain than you. Well surprise. You don't have a monopoly on human virtue. Anybody that buys into that ineffective elixir you're selling is two french fries short of a happy meal and should sue their brains for non support. The bottom line of all bottom lines has not changed: Time, space, and matter have an origination point. You are too freaking stupid to admit your theories don't have an ultimate answer to that. You take your beliefs on faith. So you believe in myths, fallacies, logical fallacies, and a point of view that has been discredited so many times that all I feel for you is pity.

But, don't flatter yourself. If your muscles were as big as your mouth, you'd be the strongest person on earth. Now, if that's not enough to convince the posters here that I am not proselytizing, lobbying for or in any way encouraging you to believe in anything, then that individual is a total idiot. Period. Believe. Don't believe. If you die tonight, it's YOUR soul that you should consider, not which Christian you can attack... and BTW, to what end? All this bandwidth and all you've done is make people mad. Who in the HELL would want to be part of such a belief system that the only way it can exist is to piss people off? I'm going to get down to your level and respond in the language you understand. Answer me that. Who would want to belong to any belief system that requires people to be forced into believing? Who wants to belong to anything where you have to belittle others and you cannot use reason, but rather condescension? Are you really that stupid or are you looking for help? I can't read your mind.

Look, if I die tomorrow and there is a God and I followed his laws to the best of my ability, then I will be rewarded in Heaven far beyond what I could imagine. If God does not exist and I take my last breath and there is nothing, then I lost NOTHING. I lived a good life, tried to be a friend and a confidant to others and, rather exist to piss other people off, I'm more likely to spend my time helping other people. I've taken children into my home as a foster parent; kept a 94 year old woman in my home for free because her family wouldn't take care of her. It's not much, but it's an investment in my own mental well being and I feel good enough about myself that I don't have to waste every freaking day trying to shove a B.S. line down peoples throats that I, myself, couldn't believe. And it is so blatantly obvious: You don't believe what you spew. THAT is why you cannot let others respectfully disagree with you without the bullying, condescension, and absolute waste of bandwidth to soothe your narcissistic ego. You're wrong. I know you're wrong; the Christians witnessing to you know you're wrong; you know you're wrong and if you needed a friend, the half wits that would give your posts a thumbs up wouldn't even bother mentioning you if you died tonight. But, if you lived in my neighborhood, I'd be the FIRST person you'd call for help. So, waste some more bandwidth. Try to come up with some good zingers. BTW, you know the definition of an idiot? It's someone that does the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result. So, your best insult won't change my mind and it hasn't won you any new converts. It's only allowed you to wallow in your own misery. You're defeated. Remember: if you ignore me, I have no reason to come back. So, why would you want me to? You're begging for attention and for help. And if I'm wrong, this should be my last post here and you can forget me. Otherwise, I'm living in your head, rent free because you need my validation. Think about it before you start typing.

Absolutely classic case of Pascal's Wager.

"So, whether I'm right or wrong in my beliefs, I've got nothin' to lose. If I'm right, hooray for me and if I'm wrong, no loss."

Pascal's Wager-- the underlying threat of the theistic argument-- "Gamble that there is a god on the chance he will not send you to an eternity of torture."

Fallacies:

a. What if you have chosen the wrong gods? You will spend an eternity apart from your “real” gods for making such an egregious error

b. "Betting" on gods displays prideful ego and might anger the gods, and you might spend eternity apart from them for making such an egregious error

c. The god might prefer courage of one's convictions instead of cowardice and self-deceit, in which case you might spend eternity apart from them for making such an egregious error

d. What if the gods deplore such self-serving narcissism and instead embraces the atheist for not succumbing to threats of a human nature? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

e. What if the gods are revolted by the very suggestion that there is something like an "eternal punishment"? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

Otherwise, you might want to consider where your hate / self-hate comes from. You might find this odd, but I see a need for religion. If it helps to control folks like you, maybe there's a benefit.

So… let's look at this from another perspective. When people say they believe in an entity that cannot be seen, cannot be felt, exists outside of the natural realm in an asserted supernatural realm, that has attributes we need to worship but cannot understand or even describe, who lives in eternity in both directions, who can create existence from nothing and is uncreated himself and uses methods and means we can never know or hope to understand, that stands outside proof which is exactly why it's for certain he exists-- I would say that qualifies as being under a delusion.



You will post another long, tedious, self-serving diatribe wherein you anoint yourself the god of being beneficent and helpful. I have no reason to believe any of it is true but if you're hoping to curry favor with you gods, consider ritual sacrifice of lambs or other livestock or maybe sacrifice a virgin. (((((SHAKING)))))

The gawds command you.

You claim there are no gods. So, what is in it for you to try and convert me? You're afraid that I'm right. I just have no interest in convincing you. That is why I haven't argued specifics. As Jefferson would have said it does me no injury if my neighbor says there are twenty gods or no god (paraphrasing, most likely.) Nothing I've done is self serving. It is a response to you... and one you FEAR. For now, I've proven my point. I'm going to continue living in your head rent free while you create straw man arguments to argue against me with. I had but one point to make when I came here. Your claim is that existence comes from nothing and the onus has been on you to prove it. But, you can't.

Who are you really trying to convince? Me or you?

You poor, dear. I understand you’re incensed that the preaching / proselytizing is not going well. Are you on a commission basis?

Your issue is that you feel an entitlement to press your religious agenda and you recoil in panic when that agenda is challenged.

It's really a simple matter to come to conclusions. You choose to reject reason and rationality and use your religion as a bloody truncheon to try and force your views on others. That’s pretty stereotypical as is the “I’ll believe just in case”, mantra.

The gods prefer courage of conviction.

If you continue to look in the mirror and tell yourself that every day, you will make a lot of progress in your life. You wrote your own script better than anyone else could. Now repeat it every day and take your advice. God Bless

What makes you think the gods have not already blessed me?

You seem to presume a position of speaking on behalf of the gods even though you admit you’re a believer “just in case”. That might suggest to the gods that you’re just being self-serving and manipulative.

The gods don’t like that.

Yawn. You need some new material. Had any god blessed you, then you wouldn't follow me around like a lost puppy... unless you thought you thought you had a thing for me. I'm living in your head rent free and you need some new material.

 

[BreezeWood]

I don't think an austronaut will agree with you, after he had to live a longer time without gravity. I fear our bodies get damned serios problems under such living conditions. We need gravity.

You're changing what I said just to show what you want to believe. One needs to understand gravity and it's a force, if it is a "force," that many of us do not understand. Even the scientists do not understand it although we can measure it quite accurately in most places in the universe with Newton's equation. Lets' see how you do with these simple questions. I drop a hammer and a feather at the same time from 5 feet high. Which will hit the ground first and why?

Next, I drop a 3 lb ball from 5 feet high and it hits the ground. Afterward, I drop the same ball from 10 feet high. Are the balls traveling at the same speed when they hit the ground and why?

ETA: I won't be mocked by an atheist who doesn't understand science such as that low brow internet atheist RWS. They base their religious beliefs of no God on science and yet they're the ones on the internet with some of the worst understanding of science.

.

- although we can measure it quite accurately in most places in the universe

I drop a hammer and a feather at the same time from 5 feet high. Which will hit the ground first and why?

bond, is it gravity in the universe affecting the feather ... or ... the spin of the planet it is falling into - - just a little curious on that one - and for the periodonicle they do weigh slightly less at the equator than at the poles is that where they learned to fly longer, were they christians,,,,

 

[Hollie]

have not lobbied for anything. I responded to a demand.

Hmm, no , you proselytized. That's a fact. Why so embarrassed of it?

You're illiterate and / or a liar. A response to a demand is NOT proselytizing.

"proselytize convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another..."

proselytize - Google Search

I did exactly the opposite. Quit being a dumb ass. At least two posters are converting you even as we speak. That's why you are trying to drag me back into this chaotic nonsense. Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear. But you make the accusation because you have two dedicated Christians that are spanking you and giving you and the other non-believers the beat down of a life-time. I guess if I were you, I'd go after the guy NOT caring whether or not you get whipped in this fight.

Adding insult to injury, most posters have either left or they are making up their minds if they weren't one way or another. I'm thinking since at least one of you non-believers has to resort to multiple accounts, you know you're not convincing anyone of your position.

“Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear.”

Such a delicate flower. You’re required to respond. You will remain until you’re excused.

The gawds command you..

And that was the first lie Satan ever told "ye shall be as gods..." Since you are a female (or have a female name) does that make you a goddette?

A life lesson for you: don’t use your fears and superstitions in attempts to intimidate others.

The two religious extremists in this thread are stereotypical of those who are too committed to childish superstitions and ”us vs. them" mentalities.

I can honestly advise that your appeals to magic and supernaturalism are tragically damaging.

My preference for discerning fact from partisan religious superstition is based on using the tools of evidence and reason that allow any objective analyst to discriminate between my position and yours. Your preference is based (as you admit here) purely on which best fits your a priori religious commitment.

“ye really need to condemn all humanity for fruit theft..."

Bulllshit Hollie. You've been throwing your weight around ever since I I came onto this thread. All I see is a scared little girl that thinks she can browbeat Christians because most of them don't fight back. You can only turn the cheek so often. Here is the bottom line:

If your position is so fragile; if it requires you to lie, intimidate, and bully people that disagree with you, it's obvious: you don't believe that claptrap any more than I do. NOBODY asked you to believe, join, or support anything. You're getting spanked by those other guys. But, don't kid yourself. I've forgotten more than you are capable of learning. For, if your belief system requires you to be disrespectful and bully people; if it means nobody can respectfully disagree with you; when it means you are lying and relying on delusional liars to back you up, then YOU have a serious problem. My specific degree is in Christian Education. As a counselor, I'm trained to recognize emotional disorders. And you figure it out.

You've lied about me; bullied me and tried to infer that anyone that don't buy into a B.S. ideology of nothingness is lower on the food chain than you. Well surprise. You don't have a monopoly on human virtue. Anybody that buys into that ineffective elixir you're selling is two french fries short of a happy meal and should sue their brains for non support. The bottom line of all bottom lines has not changed: Time, space, and matter have an origination point. You are too freaking stupid to admit your theories don't have an ultimate answer to that. You take your beliefs on faith. So you believe in myths, fallacies, logical fallacies, and a point of view that has been discredited so many times that all I feel for you is pity.

But, don't flatter yourself. If your muscles were as big as your mouth, you'd be the strongest person on earth. Now, if that's not enough to convince the posters here that I am not proselytizing, lobbying for or in any way encouraging you to believe in anything, then that individual is a total idiot. Period. Believe. Don't believe. If you die tonight, it's YOUR soul that you should consider, not which Christian you can attack... and BTW, to what end? All this bandwidth and all you've done is make people mad. Who in the HELL would want to be part of such a belief system that the only way it can exist is to piss people off? I'm going to get down to your level and respond in the language you understand. Answer me that. Who would want to belong to any belief system that requires people to be forced into believing? Who wants to belong to anything where you have to belittle others and you cannot use reason, but rather condescension? Are you really that stupid or are you looking for help? I can't read your mind.

Look, if I die tomorrow and there is a God and I followed his laws to the best of my ability, then I will be rewarded in Heaven far beyond what I could imagine. If God does not exist and I take my last breath and there is nothing, then I lost NOTHING. I lived a good life, tried to be a friend and a confidant to others and, rather exist to piss other people off, I'm more likely to spend my time helping other people. I've taken children into my home as a foster parent; kept a 94 year old woman in my home for free because her family wouldn't take care of her. It's not much, but it's an investment in my own mental well being and I feel good enough about myself that I don't have to waste every freaking day trying to shove a B.S. line down peoples throats that I, myself, couldn't believe. And it is so blatantly obvious: You don't believe what you spew. THAT is why you cannot let others respectfully disagree with you without the bullying, condescension, and absolute waste of bandwidth to soothe your narcissistic ego. You're wrong. I know you're wrong; the Christians witnessing to you know you're wrong; you know you're wrong and if you needed a friend, the half wits that would give your posts a thumbs up wouldn't even bother mentioning you if you died tonight. But, if you lived in my neighborhood, I'd be the FIRST person you'd call for help. So, waste some more bandwidth. Try to come up with some good zingers. BTW, you know the definition of an idiot? It's someone that does the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result. So, your best insult won't change my mind and it hasn't won you any new converts. It's only allowed you to wallow in your own misery. You're defeated. Remember: if you ignore me, I have no reason to come back. So, why would you want me to? You're begging for attention and for help. And if I'm wrong, this should be my last post here and you can forget me. Otherwise, I'm living in your head, rent free because you need my validation. Think about it before you start typing.

Absolutely classic case of Pascal's Wager.

"So, whether I'm right or wrong in my beliefs, I've got nothin' to lose. If I'm right, hooray for me and if I'm wrong, no loss."

Pascal's Wager-- the underlying threat of the theistic argument-- "Gamble that there is a god on the chance he will not send you to an eternity of torture."

Fallacies:

a. What if you have chosen the wrong gods? You will spend an eternity apart from your “real” gods for making such an egregious error

b. "Betting" on gods displays prideful ego and might anger the gods, and you might spend eternity apart from them for making such an egregious error

c. The god might prefer courage of one's convictions instead of cowardice and self-deceit, in which case you might spend eternity apart from them for making such an egregious error

d. What if the gods deplore such self-serving narcissism and instead embraces the atheist for not succumbing to threats of a human nature? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

e. What if the gods are revolted by the very suggestion that there is something like an "eternal punishment"? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

Otherwise, you might want to consider where your hate / self-hate comes from. You might find this odd, but I see a need for religion. If it helps to control folks like you, maybe there's a benefit.

So… let's look at this from another perspective. When people say they believe in an entity that cannot be seen, cannot be felt, exists outside of the natural realm in an asserted supernatural realm, that has attributes we need to worship but cannot understand or even describe, who lives in eternity in both directions, who can create existence from nothing and is uncreated himself and uses methods and means we can never know or hope to understand, that stands outside proof which is exactly why it's for certain he exists-- I would say that qualifies as being under a delusion.



You will post another long, tedious, self-serving diatribe wherein you anoint yourself the god of being beneficent and helpful. I have no reason to believe any of it is true but if you're hoping to curry favor with you gods, consider ritual sacrifice of lambs or other livestock or maybe sacrifice a virgin. (((((SHAKING)))))

The gawds command you.

You claim there are no gods. So, what is in it for you to try and convert me? You're afraid that I'm right. I just have no interest in convincing you. That is why I haven't argued specifics. As Jefferson would have said it does me no injury if my neighbor says there are twenty gods or no god (paraphrasing, most likely.) Nothing I've done is self serving. It is a response to you... and one you FEAR. For now, I've proven my point. I'm going to continue living in your head rent free while you create straw man arguments to argue against me with. I had but one point to make when I came here. Your claim is that existence comes from nothing and the onus has been on you to prove it. But, you can't.

Who are you really trying to convince? Me or you?

You poor, dear. I understand you’re incensed that the preaching / proselytizing is not going well. Are you on a commission basis?

Your issue is that you feel an entitlement to press your religious agenda and you recoil in panic when that agenda is challenged.

It's really a simple matter to come to conclusions. You choose to reject reason and rationality and use your religion as a bloody truncheon to try and force your views on others. That’s pretty stereotypical as is the “I’ll believe just in case”, mantra.

The gods prefer courage of conviction.

If you continue to look in the mirror and tell yourself that every day, you will make a lot of progress in your life. You wrote your own script better than anyone else could. Now repeat it every day and take your advice. God Bless

What makes you think the gods have not already blessed me?

You seem to presume a position of speaking on behalf of the gods even though you admit you’re a believer “just in case”. That might suggest to the gods that you’re just being self-serving and manipulative.

The gods don’t like that.

Yawn. You need some new material. Had any god blessed you, then you wouldn't follow me around like a lost puppy... unless you thought you thought you had a thing for me. I'm living in your head rent free and you need some new material.

Speaking of new material, your stuttering and mumbling old slogans.

I’ve noticed a pattern of behavior among the Bible thumpers and that revolves around their need to project their fears and superstitions on others.

Ultimately, If you are comforted by your religious beliefs, there is no reason why you need a compulsion to revile those who don’t share your partisan beliefs in partisan gods. There is nothing that separates your claims to gods from claims to gods who preceded your gods. I note that your belief being unsupported and lacking in demonstration may mean you’re living an illusion. You actually acknowledged that with your “I’ll believe just in case” comment.

You’re not winning converts in this thread. When you project your revulsion for those who don’t accept a 6,000 year old planet or the “low gravity” proposal, (and you don’t understand why), you need a different audience.

 

[Newtonian]

39 pages now and still no "General Theory of Supernatural Creation"

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Certainly true. However, that translation does not alert the reader to where the Hebrew imperfect verb state (=action in progress not yet complete) is being used in the creation account. For example, light did not suddenly penetrate the accretion envelopment around earth - it was a gradual process.

Also, in Genesis 1:1 heaven(s) is plural while earth is singular in the original Hebrew text.

Some translations do not note that the Hebrew 'created' (bara) in Gen. 1:1 is different than the Hebrew word for made/make in Gen.1:16. My favorite Bible translation does - for example, this footnote on Genesis 1:16

Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

"“And . . . proceeded to make.” Heb., wai·yaʹʽas (from ʽa·sahʹ). Different from “create” (ba·raʼʹ) found in vss 1, 21, 27; 2:3. Progressive action indicated by the imperfect state. See App 3C."

 

[Porter Rockwell]

have not lobbied for anything. I responded to a demand.

Hmm, no , you proselytized. That's a fact. Why so embarrassed of it?

You're illiterate and / or a liar. A response to a demand is NOT proselytizing.

"proselytize convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another..."

proselytize - Google Search

I did exactly the opposite. Quit being a dumb ass. At least two posters are converting you even as we speak. That's why you are trying to drag me back into this chaotic nonsense. Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear. But you make the accusation because you have two dedicated Christians that are spanking you and giving you and the other non-believers the beat down of a life-time. I guess if I were you, I'd go after the guy NOT caring whether or not you get whipped in this fight.

Adding insult to injury, most posters have either left or they are making up their minds if they weren't one way or another. I'm thinking since at least one of you non-believers has to resort to multiple accounts, you know you're not convincing anyone of your position.

“Like I said, if you non-believers left me alone, I'd disappear.”

Such a delicate flower. You’re required to respond. You will remain until you’re excused.

The gawds command you..

And that was the first lie Satan ever told "ye shall be as gods..." Since you are a female (or have a female name) does that make you a goddette?

A life lesson for you: don’t use your fears and superstitions in attempts to intimidate others.

The two religious extremists in this thread are stereotypical of those who are too committed to childish superstitions and ”us vs. them" mentalities.

I can honestly advise that your appeals to magic and supernaturalism are tragically damaging.

My preference for discerning fact from partisan religious superstition is based on using the tools of evidence and reason that allow any objective analyst to discriminate between my position and yours. Your preference is based (as you admit here) purely on which best fits your a priori religious commitment.

“ye really need to condemn all humanity for fruit theft..."

Bulllshit Hollie. You've been throwing your weight around ever since I I came onto this thread. All I see is a scared little girl that thinks she can browbeat Christians because most of them don't fight back. You can only turn the cheek so often. Here is the bottom line:

If your position is so fragile; if it requires you to lie, intimidate, and bully people that disagree with you, it's obvious: you don't believe that claptrap any more than I do. NOBODY asked you to believe, join, or support anything. You're getting spanked by those other guys. But, don't kid yourself. I've forgotten more than you are capable of learning. For, if your belief system requires you to be disrespectful and bully people; if it means nobody can respectfully disagree with you; when it means you are lying and relying on delusional liars to back you up, then YOU have a serious problem. My specific degree is in Christian Education. As a counselor, I'm trained to recognize emotional disorders. And you figure it out.

You've lied about me; bullied me and tried to infer that anyone that don't buy into a B.S. ideology of nothingness is lower on the food chain than you. Well surprise. You don't have a monopoly on human virtue. Anybody that buys into that ineffective elixir you're selling is two french fries short of a happy meal and should sue their brains for non support. The bottom line of all bottom lines has not changed: Time, space, and matter have an origination point. You are too freaking stupid to admit your theories don't have an ultimate answer to that. You take your beliefs on faith. So you believe in myths, fallacies, logical fallacies, and a point of view that has been discredited so many times that all I feel for you is pity.

But, don't flatter yourself. If your muscles were as big as your mouth, you'd be the strongest person on earth. Now, if that's not enough to convince the posters here that I am not proselytizing, lobbying for or in any way encouraging you to believe in anything, then that individual is a total idiot. Period. Believe. Don't believe. If you die tonight, it's YOUR soul that you should consider, not which Christian you can attack... and BTW, to what end? All this bandwidth and all you've done is make people mad. Who in the HELL would want to be part of such a belief system that the only way it can exist is to piss people off? I'm going to get down to your level and respond in the language you understand. Answer me that. Who would want to belong to any belief system that requires people to be forced into believing? Who wants to belong to anything where you have to belittle others and you cannot use reason, but rather condescension? Are you really that stupid or are you looking for help? I can't read your mind.

Look, if I die tomorrow and there is a God and I followed his laws to the best of my ability, then I will be rewarded in Heaven far beyond what I could imagine. If God does not exist and I take my last breath and there is nothing, then I lost NOTHING. I lived a good life, tried to be a friend and a confidant to others and, rather exist to piss other people off, I'm more likely to spend my time helping other people. I've taken children into my home as a foster parent; kept a 94 year old woman in my home for free because her family wouldn't take care of her. It's not much, but it's an investment in my own mental well being and I feel good enough about myself that I don't have to waste every freaking day trying to shove a B.S. line down peoples throats that I, myself, couldn't believe. And it is so blatantly obvious: You don't believe what you spew. THAT is why you cannot let others respectfully disagree with you without the bullying, condescension, and absolute waste of bandwidth to soothe your narcissistic ego. You're wrong. I know you're wrong; the Christians witnessing to you know you're wrong; you know you're wrong and if you needed a friend, the half wits that would give your posts a thumbs up wouldn't even bother mentioning you if you died tonight. But, if you lived in my neighborhood, I'd be the FIRST person you'd call for help. So, waste some more bandwidth. Try to come up with some good zingers. BTW, you know the definition of an idiot? It's someone that does the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result. So, your best insult won't change my mind and it hasn't won you any new converts. It's only allowed you to wallow in your own misery. You're defeated. Remember: if you ignore me, I have no reason to come back. So, why would you want me to? You're begging for attention and for help. And if I'm wrong, this should be my last post here and you can forget me. Otherwise, I'm living in your head, rent free because you need my validation. Think about it before you start typing.

Absolutely classic case of Pascal's Wager.

"So, whether I'm right or wrong in my beliefs, I've got nothin' to lose. If I'm right, hooray for me and if I'm wrong, no loss."

Pascal's Wager-- the underlying threat of the theistic argument-- "Gamble that there is a god on the chance he will not send you to an eternity of torture."

Fallacies:

a. What if you have chosen the wrong gods? You will spend an eternity apart from your “real” gods for making such an egregious error

b. "Betting" on gods displays prideful ego and might anger the gods, and you might spend eternity apart from them for making such an egregious error

c. The god might prefer courage of one's convictions instead of cowardice and self-deceit, in which case you might spend eternity apart from them for making such an egregious error

d. What if the gods deplore such self-serving narcissism and instead embraces the atheist for not succumbing to threats of a human nature? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

e. What if the gods are revolted by the very suggestion that there is something like an "eternal punishment"? In that case you might spend eternity apart from him for making such an egregious error.

Otherwise, you might want to consider where your hate / self-hate comes from. You might find this odd, but I see a need for religion. If it helps to control folks like you, maybe there's a benefit.

So… let's look at this from another perspective. When people say they believe in an entity that cannot be seen, cannot be felt, exists outside of the natural realm in an asserted supernatural realm, that has attributes we need to worship but cannot understand or even describe, who lives in eternity in both directions, who can create existence from nothing and is uncreated himself and uses methods and means we can never know or hope to understand, that stands outside proof which is exactly why it's for certain he exists-- I would say that qualifies as being under a delusion.



You will post another long, tedious, self-serving diatribe wherein you anoint yourself the god of being beneficent and helpful. I have no reason to believe any of it is true but if you're hoping to curry favor with you gods, consider ritual sacrifice of lambs or other livestock or maybe sacrifice a virgin. (((((SHAKING)))))

The gawds command you.

You claim there are no gods. So, what is in it for you to try and convert me? You're afraid that I'm right. I just have no interest in convincing you. That is why I haven't argued specifics. As Jefferson would have said it does me no injury if my neighbor says there are twenty gods or no god (paraphrasing, most likely.) Nothing I've done is self serving. It is a response to you... and one you FEAR. For now, I've proven my point. I'm going to continue living in your head rent free while you create straw man arguments to argue against me with. I had but one point to make when I came here. Your claim is that existence comes from nothing and the onus has been on you to prove it. But, you can't.

Who are you really trying to convince? Me or you?

You poor, dear. I understand you’re incensed that the preaching / proselytizing is not going well. Are you on a commission basis?

Your issue is that you feel an entitlement to press your religious agenda and you recoil in panic when that agenda is challenged.

It's really a simple matter to come to conclusions. You choose to reject reason and rationality and use your religion as a bloody truncheon to try and force your views on others. That’s pretty stereotypical as is the “I’ll believe just in case”, mantra.

The gods prefer courage of conviction.

If you continue to look in the mirror and tell yourself that every day, you will make a lot of progress in your life. You wrote your own script better than anyone else could. Now repeat it every day and take your advice. God Bless

What makes you think the gods have not already blessed me?

You seem to presume a position of speaking on behalf of the gods even though you admit you’re a believer “just in case”. That might suggest to the gods that you’re just being self-serving and manipulative.

The gods don’t like that.

Yawn. You need some new material. Had any god blessed you, then you wouldn't follow me around like a lost puppy... unless you thought you thought you had a thing for me. I'm living in your head rent free and you need some new material.

Speaking of new material, your stuttering and mumbling old slogans.

I’ve noticed a pattern of behavior among the Bible thumpers and that revolves around their need to project their fears and superstitions on others.

Ultimately, If you are comforted by your religious beliefs, there is no reason why you need a compulsion to revile those who don’t share your partisan beliefs in partisan gods. There is nothing that separates your claims to gods from claims to gods who preceded your gods. I note that your belief being unsupported and lacking in demonstration may mean you’re living an illusion. You actually acknowledged that with your “I’ll believe just in case” comment.

You’re not winning converts in this thread. When you project your revulsion for those who don’t accept a 6,000 year old planet or the “low gravity” proposal, (and you don’t understand why), you need a different audience.

I'm not looking for converts. That is where you are lying to people. If deflection, projection and wishful thinking work for you, then by all means... and pattern of Bible thumpers??? Organized religion has a problem with me, but nice try. You are the one who reviles me, so projecting again. BTW, you need me to even have an audience.

 

[Newtonian]

The origin/creation of our universe is an example of a verifiable supernatural event - depending on your definition of supernatural.

Our universe is precisely fine tuned in many ways to allow for stars and life as we know it to exist. Our planet is fine tuned so that life on the surface of the earth could exist.

For example, the precise fine tuning of the expansion rate of our universe (Isaiah 40:22,26) allowed stars to exist, which allowed supernovas to exist which allowed elements other than Lithium and Hydrogen to exist .....

The Big Bang theory has some elements of truth to it (pun intended) but it does not explain many things including the crucial one: the actual origin of our universe.

Many scientists reject the law of conservation of matter and energy and the principle of cause and effect - some even claim our universe came from nothing!

I might add that Genesis 1:1 is accurate in stating both heaven(s) and earth have a beginning.

Btw - Jehovah's Witnesses are not creationists - we reject some of their religious doctrines but we accept the Biblical account of creation.

Nothing in the formation of the universe comes anywhere close to proving supernaturalism. Supernaturalism is not a part of the rational world. You have yet to even define supernaturalism and how that would apply to the rational world.

Therefore, it is rational to reject your appeals to a realm you cannot define, cannot describe and cannot offer evidence for. Concluding that your asserted supernatural realms, agents, entities, etc., are non existent is perfectly rational

I was responding to someone else who used the term "supernatural." I asked what definition of supernatural was meant - if the answer was posted, I missed it. I don't use the term myself, since I think other energy-based (spirit) life forms are natural scientifically. Extraterrestrial life forms would be more accurate - and God would be the supreme First Cause in the chain of cause and effects going back to the creation of primordial time assuming primordial time had a beginning - which I don't think any human knows at this time.

I will define primordial time: the time during which cause and effect proceeded during the cause(s) of the origin of our universe. It is not our universe specific space-time which began at the origin of our
universe.

[Note: The name of God is Jehovah (Psalms 83:18 KJV) which in Hebrew is H3068/yehovah/YHWH=JHVH. This name is a verb - containing the Hebrew verb hawah (HWH) in the causative sense and a primary definition of this name is: He causes to be. Thus the Divine Name actually confirms the scientific principle of cause and effect but narrows down the choice of infinite past causes and effects during infinite past time or a First Cause. I.e. Jehovah is the First Cause.]

Actually that's all bs because the OT was based on original texts written by the Sumerians and Babylonians. The OT god, whatever you want to call him, is a conglomeration of EN.KI and EN.LIL stories written over 2000 years before the story of the OT.

Thank you for quoting me. However, you did not address any of the lines of evidence I posted about. Nor have you documented your claim that the Bible account of creation is based on earlier accounts.

Your accusation is answered in our Bible dictionary here:

Genesis, Book of — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

Excerpt:

"The Historical Character of Genesis. Genesis is the only source known to humans that provides a logical, coherent history of things back to the beginning. Without its factual history of the first man and woman, we would be left with the fanciful stories or allegorical explanations of man’s beginning that are found in the creation accounts of pagan nations. A comparison of the book of Genesis with the pagan creation accounts clearly demonstrates the superiority of the Bible account.


Thus, the principal Babylonian myth says that the god Marduk, the chief god of Babylon, killed the goddess Tiamat, then took her corpse and “split her like a shellfish into two parts: Half of her he set up and ceiled it as sky.” So the earth and its sky came into existence. As to the creation of human life, this myth states that the gods caught the god Kingu and they “imposed on him his guilt and severed his blood (vessels). Out of his blood they fashioned mankind.” (Ancient Near Eastern Texts, edited by James Pritchard, 1974, pp. 67, 68) Egyptian creation myths likewise involve the activities of several gods, but they disagree as to which city’s god (that of Memphis or that of Thebes) was the one who conceived the creation. One Egyptian myth relates that the sun-god Ra created mankind from his tears. Greek myths parallel those of the Babylonians. Ancient Chinese records are mostly calendars and chronological calculations or records of merely local or temporary interest.

Not one of such ancient sources furnishes us with the history, genealogy, and chronology that the book of Genesis provides."