Coyote I am calling on you to discuss the Canadian Border issue:

[Devils_Advocate]

Coyote I am calling you to the Bull Ring because I believe the board need to have a truly open debate without the trolling, and I know dear I am truly guilty but here is what we are debating here;

Trucker Convoy that blocked a bridge and possible future protests and why the left seem to be against it and the right is for it.

Rules:

Coyote can invite on person to help and so can I but no one else can be invited.

We must state who the other poster is and I am requesting WillHaftawaite and if he refuses then I would request Meister .

Also no one besides the four posters are allowed to comment ( If Coyote accepts this challenge) and we must keep it civil and not throw taunts or troll.

Anyone breaking the rules will be asked to leave.

Now the Subject is clear:

The Trucker Convoy that has upset many on the left and why the left is against it and why the right is for it…

Now my opening comment is simple as this and that is in a Republic which we are we have the right to peacefully protest what we may consider tyrannical treatment by our leaders.

I feel the press and treatment of the Convoy has been very negative by MSM ( Well unless FOX News ) and if it were a social rights issue that helped the left then the left leaning media would embrace it in a better light.

I believe these Truckers have the same right as BLM and ANTIFA and if any destruction is done by a protester then they should be dealt with harshly but just blocking the Bridge in my opinion is no reason to treat them as domestic terrorist or insurrectionist.

Now let me ask you do you understand why these Truckers are sick of what has happened and why they did what they did?

Next question will be do you understand that upsetting the people that deliver the products across this Nation and Canada is never wise?

A Trucker Strike would crippled this Nation, Canada, Mexico and the ramifications will be felt around the World, so let me ask if blocking a bridge is better than a National Strike and a true insurrection that could be coming?

Your turn and if my two choices refuse then I will pick someone else that is more moderate right…

 

[Coyote]

Coyote I am calling you to the Bull Ring because I believe the board need to have a truly open debate without the trolling, and I know dear I am truly guilty but here is what we are debating here;

Trucker Convoy that blocked a bridge and possible future protests and why the left seem to be against it and the right is for it.

Rules:

Coyote can invite on person to help and so can I but no one else can be invited.

We must state who the other poster is and I am requesting WillHaftawaite and if he refuses then I would request Meister .

Also no one besides the four posters are allowed to comment ( If Coyote accepts this challenge) and we must keep it civil and not throw taunts or troll.

Anyone breaking the rules will be asked to leave.

Ok, I accept. I have no idea who to ask as a second, if some one wants to, they can PM me.

Now the Subject is clear:

The Trucker Convoy that has upset many on the left and why the left is against it and why the right is for it…

Before I go further, am I speaking for myself or the “left”? I can only speak for myself.

Now my opening comment is simple as this and that is in a Republic which we are we have the right to peacefully protest what we may consider tyrannical treatment by our leaders.

I feel the press and treatment of the Convoy has been very negative by MSM ( Well unless FOX News ) and if it were a social rights issue that helped the left then the left leaning media would embrace it in a better light.

I believe these Truckers have the same right as BLM and ANTIFA and if any destruction is done by a protester then they should be dealt with harshly but just blocking the Bridge in my opinion is no reason to treat them as domestic terrorist or insurrectionist.

Now let me ask you do you understand why these Truckers are sick of what has happened and why they did what they did?

Next question will be do you understand that upsetting the people that deliver the products across this Nation and Canada is never wise?

A Trucker Strike would crippled this Nation, Canada, Mexico and the ramifications will be felt around the World, so let me ask if blocking a bridge is better than a National Strike and a true insurrection that could be coming?

Your turn and if my two choices refuse then I will pick someone else that is more moderate right…

Ok, I will respond in the next post.

Also, someone else will have to moderate this.

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Ok, I accept. I have no idea who to ask as a second, if some one wants to, they can PM me.



Before I go further, am I speaking for myself or the “left”? I can only speak for myself.





Ok, I will respond in the next post.

Also, someone else will have to moderate this.

If Taz is willing I am game… and Speak for yourself love and no one else… Pardon for the way I write at times but let play…

 

[Coyote]

Now the Subject is clear:

First, I want to make my own position clear. I don’t object to the trucker’s protest or right to protest. I support everyone’s right to peacefully protest as well as worker’s rights to unionize and strike (and the protest is in essence also a strike).

What I object to is the glaring double standard on protests coming from the right that resulted in some draconian anti-protest laws aimed at curtailing the right to peacefully protest, specifically blocking streets and roads.

The Trucker Convoy that has upset many on the left and why the left is against it and why the right is for it…

Now my opening comment is simple as this and that is in a Republic which we are we have the right to peacefully protest what we may consider tyrannical treatment by our leaders.

Has it really upset those on the left? I haven’t seen that much about it upsetting people on an ideological basis so much as on an economic basis.

I feel the press and treatment of the Convoy has been very negative by MSM ( Well unless FOX News ) and if it were a social rights issue that helped the left then the left leaning media would embrace it in a better light.

I believe these Truckers have the same right as BLM and ANTIFA and if any destruction is done by a protester then they should be dealt with harshly but just blocking the Bridge in my opinion is no reason to treat them as domestic terrorist or insurrectionist.

I agree, they have the same rights as any other peaceful demonstration.

BUT. If they are blocking a border crossing, as opposed to streets within their own country, is that still a peaceful protest? At that point they are violating the rights of another nation.

Other questions come up…and these are the same questions raised during the Floyd protests as well: at what point do the rights of other people in the area matter and it is time to move on? A prior example would be the occupy movement in Portland.

Now let me ask you do you understand why these Truckers are sick of what has happened and why they did what they did?

I do, but part of the problem (and this is similar to BLM) is their protest has also attracted the attention and participation of fringe groups like those with Neo Nazi and Confederate symbols. That tends to pollute their cause and morph it into a generic and often conspiracy ridden anti government protest.

So at this point what are they protesting…and in terms of a cause, how is it any different than Black Lives Matter (the movement, not tbe group)?

Next question will be do you understand that upsetting the people that deliver the products across this Nation and Canada is never wise?

Of course.

A Trucker Strike would crippled this Nation, Canada, Mexico and the ramifications will be felt around the World, so let me ask if blocking a bridge is better than a National Strike and a true insurrection that could be coming?

It is effectively a strike. And yet, how often do we hear criticisms of “appeasement” when it comes to giving in protesters? I heard that leveled at the Floyd protesters. Maybe a consistent standard should be applied.

Your turn and if my two choices refuse then I will pick someone else that is more moderate right…

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Coyote

I truly agree there is a double standard from all sides and not just the right and left either and we shouldn’t allow this type of behavior but in today twenty-four hour news cycles with opinions as news, well we get a lot of double standards.

Anarchists always ruin a beautiful protest no matter left right or so on and it is sad when they do.

I do understand the point of Floyd protest, Portland and so on and I do know that the Anachists will wreak havoc to ruin a protest that is needed to open a dialogue of discussion but I have seen on this board alone where the left ( and yes the right are being hypocrites ) have called for arresting the Trucker Convoy and also ruining their livelihood which in my personal opinion is wrong.

The Trucker Convoy is protesting a system that is punishing someone that is not vaccinated when the vaccine is clearly losing it ability to stop the spread or contracting of the virus, so as someone being jabbed multiple times and have dealt with the virus not once but twice I can understand their anger at the Canadian and American Government.

This protest is better than what can happen which is a National Strike where it completely cripples the U.S., Canadian and Mexican economy while also throwing the Stock Market into a crash and destroying other Nations Economies ( including China ) so for me to you we must understand this little temper tantrum could lead to something that crashes everything, and many on the left here are not understanding the true threat that is coming down the road.

I hate to tell you this I am for a one month National Strike by the Truckers In Canada, Mexico and U.S. so that it will send the proper message that a tyrannical government is not accepted ever!

I believe the best solution is to park the Trucks and those like me fund this strike so that the World get the message that enough is enough…

Now do you believe the left comments on this board are as much hypocritical as the right words on this board?

Let me state anyone caught looting, burning and so on should be treated as the criminal they are no matter BLM, ANTIFA or the Truckers Convoy…

As for the closing of the Bridge, well it could be consider it legal but I feel if BLM can block roads and bridges then Truckers should be allowed to do the same thing but I will say this if a American Trucker is on Canadian soil blocking then they are wrong and should have done the blockade on the American Side while getting support from their Canadian brethren to do the same thing.

Now I give you the floor…

 

[Donald H]

Coyote I am calling you to the Bull Ring because I believe the board need to have a truly open debate without the trolling, and I know dear I am truly guilty but here is what we are debating here;

Trucker Convoy that blocked a bridge and possible future protests and why the left seem to be against it and the right is for it.

First, you need to be brought up to date with the situation. The Ontario provincial Conservatives under Premier Ford had brought the power of the law down on the protesters. And other Conservatives are doing the same in Alberta.

The Liberals under Trudeau have been patient and allowed them to protest, and so now Truceau has a free ride. He can follow up with federal force to back up the conservatives if it's necessary.

In other words, all government is together with resolve to get rid of the trouble makers! Any blood spilt can be on the hands of the conservatives.

 

[Donald H]

I believe the best solution is to park the Trucks and those like me fund this strike so that the World get the message that enough is enough…

You don't even understand the issue Bruce and that's because there 'is' no issue. 90% of truckers are vaccinated, 100% who cross the border are vaccinated, and the US demands it be so.

So what's the issue Bruce? Some freedom being denied the protesters?

Be quick about naming it because the conservatives have just brought the big axe down on their necks!

 

[Coyote]

Coyote

I truly agree there is a double standard from all sides and not just the right and left either and we shouldn’t allow this type of behavior but in today twenty-four hour news cycles with opinions as news, well we get a lot of double standards.

Unfortunately you hit the nail on the head with that one, and add to it the sheer amount of disinformation propagated by social media.

We all have double standards at times, including myself, I get that. It seems to me though there ought to be some common ground we all can agree on yet even that seems to be rapidly diminishing due to a rising partisan sea level.

Anarchists always ruin a beautiful protest no matter left right or so on and it is sad when they do.

Do you mean Anarchists as a specific group or as agitators in general?

In terms of turning groups violent you have a lot of elements…Anarchists, Antifa, as well as rightwing anti-government groups like the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, and Bugaloo. And then opportunists who’s intent is less to support a cause than to to burn stuff up and loot. And then there is the mob effect on the individual.

I do understand the point of Floyd protest, Portland and so on and I do know that the Anachists will wreak havoc to ruin a protest that is needed to open a dialogue of discussion but I have seen on this board alone where the left ( and yes the right are being hypocrites ) have called for arresting the Trucker Convoy and also ruining their livelihood which in my personal opinion is wrong.

Calling for their arrest is a bit much, I agree and ruining their livelihood is absolutely out of bounds (but in this age if instant media it is happening more and more).

What I do think is at some point enough is enough as in with any protest and protest needs to be turned into political solutions.

The Trucker Convoy is protesting a system that is punishing someone that is not vaccinated when the vaccine is clearly losing it ability to stop the spread or contracting of the virus, so as someone being jabbed multiple times and have dealt with the virus not once but twice I can understand their anger at the Canadian and American Government.

Agree. We are now at the point where we need to reconsider our approach to Covid. The vaccine at least has been effective in reducing the severity of it in most people, which in my mind is successful. If they don’t want to be vaccinated I don’t care anymore (with certain exceptions).

This protest is better than what can happen which is a National Strike where it completely cripples the U.S., Canadian and Mexican economy while also throwing the Stock Market into a crash and destroying other Nations Economies ( including China ) so for me to you we must understand this little temper tantrum could lead to something that crashes everything, and many on the left here are not understanding the true threat that is coming down the road.

ok…I can understand that…

I hate to tell you this I am for a one month National Strike by the Truckers In Canada, Mexico and U.S. so that it will send the proper message that a tyrannical government is not accepted ever!

It is their right to strike…like I said, I am pro-union, anfd pro-workers rights…but I hope they don’t. We are in shambles economically and can’t take much more.

Also what exactly are they demanding of their government?

I believe the best solution is to park the Trucks and those like me fund this strike so that the World get the message that enough is enough…

Now do you believe the left comments on this board are as much hypocritical as the right words on this board?

Yes, they are.

Let me state anyone caught looting, burning and so on should be treated as the criminal they are no matter BLM, ANTIFA or the Truckers Convoy…

We agree here.

As for the closing of the Bridge, well it could be consider it legal but I feel if BLM can block roads and bridges then Truckers should be allowed to do the same thing but I will say this if a American Trucker is on Canadian soil blocking then they are wrong and should have done the blockade on the American Side while getting support from their Canadian brethren to do the same thing.

The question I have is when is enough enough? When does it start to effect the rights of other people? And asking this with no clear answer on this. Our government, despite all the criticisms is very reluctant to intrude on free speech rights. We don’t clamp down hard on protests, we use non lethal means of crowd control, we aren’t China or like many other countries. It is a very important right. But at what point does it intrude on the rights of others?

Now I give you the floor…

 

[Donald H]

It is their right to strike…like I said, I am pro-union, anfd pro-workers rights…but I hope they don’t. We are in shambles economically and can’t take much more.

Also what exactly are they demanding of their government?

The right to 'strike' must be based on a legitimate grievance that is not contrary to a collective agreement in force. If the strikers are not acting within the law, an injunction will be issued that will terminate the strikers' actions

I have been wondering for quite a while when the protests could be equated to a union worker's right to withdraw his/her services. There's some parallels to be drawn!

And so, the injunctions have been issued! The political right has appealed to the courts to do so.

Coincidentally or otherwise, the political left hardly ever has appealed to the courts for an injunction! Perhaps never?

We're seeing a situation in which the political right has succeeded in obtaining an injunction to stop the illegal behaviour of their own political right!!

Canada's political parties are firmly united against the protests and those protesting.

 

[MisterBeale]

Also what exactly are they demanding of their government?

TUCKER CARLSON- CONVOY SPOKESMAN IS TOLD HE DOES NOT NEED HIS PASSPORT AT THE BORDER?​

Naomi Wolf - Why Vaccine Passports Equal Slavery Forever​

 

[Lastamender]

First, you need to be brought up to date with the situation. The Ontario provincial Conservatives under Premier Ford had brought the power of the law down on the protesters. And other Conservatives are doing the same in Alberta.

The Liberals under Trudeau have been patient and allowed them to protest, and so now Truceau has a free ride. He can follow up with federal force to back up the conservatives if it's necessary.

In other words, all government is together with resolve to get rid of the trouble makers! Any blood spilt can be on the hands of the conservatives.

People that want to make their own decisions are troublemakers? Since when?

 

[Donald H]

TUCKER CARLSON- CONVOY SPOKESMAN IS TOLD HE DOES NOT NEED HIS PASSPORT AT THE BORDER?​

Naomi Wolf - Why Vaccine Passports Equal Slavery Forever​

Customs on both sides have known for years who is driving up to the check point at the border.

 

[MisterBeale]

Customs on both sides have known for years who is driving up to the check point at the border.

Agreed.

Though it is not required.

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Please read the rules of the thread and not unless invited you are not allowed to comment.

Coyote and I are discussing this and we will notify you if you are allowed, so please honor my request…

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Coyote it become an issue when it hit the National Security level, but some can argue where that level is at.

The Truckers Convoy mistake on the U.S. Truckers part is they should have done it on this side while the Canadian and even the Mexican Truckers did it on their countries side.

Freedom of Speech actually has it limits and courts have stated where those limits are at, but one thing I will say and that is the Truckers Convoy more or less had been peaceful even with the blockade of the Bridge, so let give them a little credit.

As for my Anarchists comment I mean true Anarchists you go out to these protests to wreak Havoc and Mayhem and they are the ones usually behind the looting and biting from Portland and on, so as you point out the Neo-Nazi’s and so on you should know most of them are also Anarchists and are there to start war with anyone.

I say this if America and Canada does not wisen up and start electing better leadership then more protests like the Truckers Convoy are coming but my hope they do it differently and do it with shutdown of their Trucks.

What would happen?

The two Nations or maybe the three of Mexico joins would come to a screaming halt and Medical, Food and Energy supplies would become scarce and nothing can stop the Truckers from doing it.

Covid response from Trump to Biden in my personal opinion has been a miserable failure and people are just tired of being told they can not live their daily lives.

I am unsure if you realize this but most vaccinated people are asymptomatic carriers and spread the virus without knowing and I have been watching this closely because being hit twice, so I am asking myself why are we forcing a vaccine onto people when it does not completely protect nor does it stop the transmission of the virus?

I wear a mask, gloves, shield and been vaccinated multiple times and almost died New Years Eve, so I ask myself are these Truckers truly wrong or are we so set in our way we refuse to accept different points of views?


So let me finish this off by saying it was a honor to have this conversation and we agree mostly and what we do not I can say that we can agree to disagree which is the right course of action.

Now my closing thought:

America is in dark and dangerous times and the leadership we have here in America and Canada cause me to say it is time to send a true message and request the Truckers to strike and let the two Governments and it citizens realize the dangers of upsetting those that carry your products.

I believe parking your truck at your home and not moving for thirty days is the true answer to shock the entire World and tell the leaders of the World to stop with the Tyranny.

BLM and ANTIFA need to also learn better methods of protest and learn how to not use violence in their protests while also rejecting the Anarchists that are out to ruin the message.

We as people should speak loudly when needed but silence is at times louder than any word spoken and a National strike will send a louder message for the BLM, ANTIFA and Truckers Convoy in my opinion.

So thank you for the conversation dear and I leave the floor to you and please have a wonderful day.

Bruce

 

[Coyote]

Coyote it become an issue when it hit the National Security level, but some can argue where that level is at.

The Truckers Convoy mistake on the U.S. Truckers part is they should have done it on this side while the Canadian and even the Mexican Truckers did it on their countries side.

Freedom of Speech actually has it limits and courts have stated where those limits are at, but one thing I will say and that is the Truckers Convoy more or less had been peaceful even with the blockade of the Bridge, so let give them a little credit.

As for my Anarchists comment I mean true Anarchists you go out to these protests to wreak Havoc and Mayhem and they are the ones usually behind the looting and biting from Portland and on, so as you point out the Neo-Nazi’s and so on you should know most of them are also Anarchists and are there to start war with anyone.

I say this if America and Canada does not wisen up and start electing better leadership then more protests like the Truckers Convoy are coming but my hope they do it differently and do it with shutdown of their Trucks.

What would happen?

The two Nations or maybe the three of Mexico joins would come to a screaming halt and Medical, Food and Energy supplies would become scarce and nothing can stop the Truckers from doing it.

Covid response from Trump to Biden in my personal opinion has been a miserable failure and people are just tired of being told they can not live their daily lives.

I am unsure if you realize this but most vaccinated people are asymptomatic carriers and spread the virus without knowing and I have been watching this closely because being hit twice, so I am asking myself why are we forcing a vaccine onto people when it does not completely protect nor does it stop the transmission of the virus?

I wear a mask, gloves, shield and been vaccinated multiple times and almost died New Years Eve, so I ask myself are these Truckers truly wrong or are we so set in our way we refuse to accept different points of views?


So let me finish this off by saying it was a honor to have this conversation and we agree mostly and what we do not I can say that we can agree to disagree which is the right course of action.

Now my closing thought:

America is in dark and dangerous times and the leadership we have here in America and Canada cause me to say it is time to send a true message and request the Truckers to strike and let the two Governments and it citizens realize the dangers of upsetting those that carry your products.

I believe parking your truck at your home and not moving for thirty days is the true answer to shock the entire World and tell the leaders of the World to stop with the Tyranny.

BLM and ANTIFA need to also learn better methods of protest and learn how to not use violence in their protests while also rejecting the Anarchists that are out to ruin the message.

We as people should speak loudly when needed but silence is at times louder than any word spoken and a National strike will send a louder message for the BLM, ANTIFA and Truckers Convoy in my opinion.

So thank you for the conversation dear and I leave the floor to you and please have a wonderful day.

Bruce

You raise a lot of good points and thank you for the civility

 

[miketx]

, I accept. I have no idea who to ask as a second, if some one wants to, they can PM me

I'll help you.

 

[Donald H]

I say this if America and Canada does not wisen up and start electing better leadership then more protests like the Truckers Convoy are coming but my hope they do it differently and do it with shutdown of their Trucks.

A calm and rational discussion on the truckers' protest would be interesting.

Nobody has ever actually pinpointed just what they were protesting. My best explanation is that they, the truckers and others, were objecting against Covid and the necessary precautions, and not really anything more specific.

Everybody wanted the inconveniences to just go away but they had no idea on who or what would make it go away. Hence, protesting to show nothing much more than displeasure over the reality of Covid.

Anybody have some idea on what else it could be? It was never actually stated in plain words!

 

[miketx]

A calm and rational discussion on the truckers' protest would be interesting.

Nobody has ever actually pinpointed just what they were protesting. My best explanation is that they, the truckers and others, were objecting against Covid and the necessary precautions, and not really anything more specific.

Everybody wanted the inconveniences to just go away but they had no idea on who or what would make it go away. Hence, protesting to show nothing much more than displeasure over the reality of Covid.

Anybody have some idea on what else it could be? It was never actually stated in plain words!

Same as common sense gun laws!

 

[Donald H]

Same as common sense gun laws!

As I expected, there's no attempt to pinpoint any specific grievance of the truckers. The fact is, no trucker refused the vaccines if they were required to cross a border.

And apparently the extreme rightists who tried to hitch a ride on the truckers' coattails, had none either.

Can anybody quote some specific grievance or cause of any trucker?

Freedom to blow their horns all night is pretty weak, considering the costs incurred for a holiday sitting in a truck in cold weather!