Cool! We used Commie torture methods!

[Ravi]

The military trainers who came to Guantánamo Bay in December 2002 based an entire interrogation class on a chart showing the effects of “coercive management techniques” for possible use on prisoners, including “sleep deprivation,” “prolonged constraint,” and “exposure.”

What the trainers did not say, and may not have known, was that their chart had been copied verbatim from a 1957 Air Force study of Chinese Communist techniques used during the Korean War to obtain confessions, many of them false, from American prisoners.


The recycled chart is the latest and most vivid evidence of the way Communist interrogation methods that the United States long described as torture became the basis for interrogations both by the military at the base at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, and by the Central Intelligence Agency.

http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/us/02detain.html&OQ=_rQ3D1Q26partnerQ3DrssnytQ26emcQ3Drss&OP=2d4bb6a9Q2Fn@Q20xnJ4Q24B544Q3DQ23nQ23qqvnqVnqQ23nkBnqQ23JQ20Q3DQ5CFMD!Q3DyY

 

[CSM]

The military trainers who came to Guantánamo Bay in December 2002 based an entire interrogation class on a chart showing the effects of “coercive management techniques” for possible use on prisoners, including “sleep deprivation,” “prolonged constraint,” and “exposure.”

What the trainers did not say, and may not have known, was that their chart had been copied verbatim from a 1957 Air Force study of Chinese Communist techniques used during the Korean War to obtain confessions, many of them false, from American prisoners.


The recycled chart is the latest and most vivid evidence of the way Communist interrogation methods that the United States long described as torture became the basis for interrogations both by the military at the base at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, and by the Central Intelligence Agency.

http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/us/02detain.html&OQ=_rQ3D1Q26partnerQ3DrssnytQ26emcQ3Drss&OP=2d4bb6a9Q2Fn@Q20xnJ4Q24B544Q3DQ23nQ23qqvnqVnqQ23nkBnqQ23JQ20Q3DQ5CFMD!Q3DyY

Good..at least we didn't spend a whole bunch of money re-inventing the wheel.

 

[Care4all]

i heard.... this morning on the news. JUST UN___________ BELIEVABLE!!!!!

I despise Rumsfeld, cheney, bush......lowlife commi tactics, they are shameful, a disgrace to the usa imho.

care

 

[DiamondDave]

Yeah... because we never had sleep deprivation, exposure to extreme weather, confinement in a foxhole, exposure to CS gas, etc as soldiers in basic training

These things are not torture...

 

[AllieBaba]

Boo hoo.

 

[Care4all]

Yeah... because we never had sleep deprivation, exposure to extreme weather, confinement in a foxhole, exposure to CS gas, etc as soldiers in basic training

These things are not torture...

but dave? what makes YOU the authority on this verses the United States of America?

The recycled chart is the latest and most vivid evidence of the way Communist interrogation methods that the United States long described as torture became the basis for interrogations both by the military at the base at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, and by the Central Intelligence Agency.

care

 

[jillian]

Good..at least we didn't spend a whole bunch of money re-inventing the wheel.

Is that really ok with you? It even seemed to make Pat Buchanan cringe a little bit when I saw him on TV this a.m.

 

[AllieBaba]

Good luck finding a way to fight a war without anybody ever being hurt.

 

[DiamondDave]

but dave? what makes YOU the authority on this verses the United States of America?



care

Yet those things are used in the training of soldiers... hmmm.... I do not remember seeing anything about us only getting 2 hours of sleep a day being mentioned as torture... except by the little pansies who could not cut it and got kicked out

 

[busara]

this is just great news. what could be better than knowing our govt tortures prisoners? and we know its ok because it is mostly criminals that are sent there. they want to hurt america? lets do the same to them! hahaha, it takes a real man to torture another. in fact, we should torture more people. thatd prove them!

 

[Ravi]

but dave? what makes YOU the authority on this verses the United States of America?



care

Torture, social programs...their entire world melts unless they get to define the terms.

 

[editec]

None of those techniques are new.

The Communists didn't invent those techniques although I have absolutely no doubt that they used them.

I guess I might support the occassional use of torture in extreme circunstances if I thought it actually worked.= to give us information we could count on.

According to many experts, the information given under extreme duress isn't reliable.

 

[AllieBaba]

this is just great news. what could be better than knowing our govt tortures prisoners? and we know its ok because it is mostly criminals that are sent there. they want to hurt america? lets do the same to them! hahaha, it takes a real man to torture another. in fact, we should torture more people. thatd prove them!

You idiot. They aren't tortured to punish..they're tortured to DIVULGE INFORMATION THAT WILL SAVE LIVES.

 

[busara]

You idiot. They aren't tortured to punish..they're tortured to DIVULGE INFORMATION THAT WILL SAVE LIVES.

watch your temper.

do the ends really justify the means? as another post stated, often the information obtained isnt the most reliable. what if an innocent person is tortured? or i guess a few good eggs must be broken to get to the bad ones, right? torturing is a great way to gain the moral high ground. but wait, i forgot the most important fact: most of these people arent americans, so who cares what happens to them.

 

[CSM]

Is that really ok with you? It even seemed to make Pat Buchanan cringe a little bit when I saw him on TV this a.m.

Hmmm...let me see

I have been made to stand at attention for hours on end many times for parades (no not the kind you see on Main Street), been subjected to harsh conditions while doing that (rain, sleet, hail, snow) as well as standing guard for four or more hours in those conditions, had to eat food that was not only tasteless but some of it well beyond the marked expiration date (try C-rations more than 10 years old....mmmmmm...tasty!), had to sleep in extreme environments with nothing more than a rubber poncho for cover for weeks on end, been restricted to base for months because the local populace was less than friendly and that doesn't even count all the things I had to do to survive (never mind fight) in a theater of war.

Yeah, its really ok with me.

 

[CSM]

watch your temper.

do the ends really justify the means? as another post stated, often the information obtained isnt the most reliable. what if an innocent person is tortured? or i guess a few good eggs must be broken to get to the bad ones, right? torturing is a great way to gain the moral high ground. but wait, i forgot the most important fact: most of these people arent americans, so who cares what happens to them.

That's the spirit! Screw 'em!!!!

By the way, gaining the moral high ground will only ensure not only your demise but your friend's as well. I'll take the tactical high ground thanks anyway.

 

[DiamondDave]

Hmmm...let me see

I have been made to stand at attention for hours on end many times for parades (no not the kind you see on Main Street), been subjected to harsh conditions while doing that (rain, sleet, hail, snow) as well as standing guard for four or more hours in those conditions, had to eat food that was not only tasteless but some of it well beyond the marked expiration date (try C-rations more than 10 years old....mmmmmm...tasty!), had to sleep in extreme environments with nothing more than a rubber poncho for cover for weeks on end, been restricted to base for months because the local populace was less than friendly and that doesn't even count all the things I had to do to survive (never mind fight) in a theater of war.

Yeah, its really ok with me.

exactly, Sergeant Major... exactly

Not to mention barracks space that is less than what is required for a felon in prison... forced road marches... you can name so many things we went thru...

breaking someone's face, electrocution, the rack, body mutilation, etc... THAT is torture... this stuff is treatment a bit harsher than what average Joe or Jane American goes thru, but it is not torture

 

[CSM]

exactly, Sergeant Major... exactly

Not to mention barracks space that is less than what is required for a felon in prison... forced road marches... you can name so many things we went thru...

breaking someone's face, electrocution, the rack, body mutilation, etc... THAT is torture... this stuff is treatment a bit harsher than what average Joe or Jane American goes thru, but it is not torture

Kruschev wasn't kidding when he said Americans are soft.

 

[doeton]

what's really remarkable is that Carl levin suggests these techniques don't work...and yet here we a couple of posters who clearly show these techniques power to brain wash

 

[doeton]

the above remark was completely tongue and check.

seriously though, i wonder if the level sleep deprivation and element exposure etc...is on the same level as recruits in the military experience?