Concern For Iran August 22 Grows

[ScreamingEagle]

August 09, 2006 06:10 AM EST

By Sher Zieve - Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton Bernard Lewis warns that Iran’s Islamic end of times prophecy could be fulfilled as early as 22 August. This date relates to the sacred Islamic date of Rajab 28, which is the date that Saladin entered and conquered Jerusalem.

Lewis advised that unlike the cold war, which had mutually assured destruction as a strong deterrent, Iran holds an apocalyptic worldview and is determined to bring on a forced Islamic imposition on the world or the world’s destruction. Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has repeatedly stated that he wants to bring back the 12th Imam Mahdi, who Muslims believe has been kept alive since 874 A.D. Ahmadinejad believes the first step in ensuring Imam Mahdi’s return is the total destruction of Israel. Lewis said that Ahmadinejad and his Shiite followers “clearly believe that this time is now.”

The author of “Atomic Iran: How the Terrorist Regime Bought the Bomb and American Politicians”, Jerome Corsi, said Wednesday on Coast to Coast that Iran is determined to destroy the nation of Israel and added: “I fully expect there will be a nuclear war by this time next year”.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/8/8/161444.shtml

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/16862.html

 

[Annie]

I'm hoping the 'publicity' has stopped it.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I'm hoping the 'publicity' has stopped it.

The liberal media doesn't want to talk about anything that is religious-oriented. The fact is, duh, both sides of this conflagration are religiously-oriented.

Hmm...let's see here....who's Gog and who's Magog? :scratch:

August 10, 2006, 3:14 a.m.

Apocalypse Now?
Is Iran planning a cataclysmic strike for August 22?

By Joel C. Rosenberg

Is Iran planning an apocalyptic strike against Israel and/or the United States for August 22? If so, what should the U.S. do to protect Americans and our ally? Such questions are worrying a growing number of officials in the White House, at the CIA, and at the Pentagon, and for good reason.

As a devout Shiite Muslim, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is telling colleagues in Tehran that he believes the end of the world is rapidly approaching. He also believes that the way to hasten the coming of the Islamic Messiah known as the “Hidden Imam” or the “Mahdi” is to launch a catastrophic global jihad, first against Israel (the “little Satan&#8221 and then against the U.S. (the “Great Satan&#8221. What’s more, Ahmadinejad is widely believed to be pursuing nuclear weapons that would give him the ability to carry out his apocalyptic religious views. Some experts even speculate that Iran may already have several atomic bombs and the means to deliver them.

In recent days, Ahmadinejad and his advisers have said that Iran will answer the world regarding the future of its nuclear program on August 22. That happens to be a very significant date for Muslims: It is the anniversary of the supposed “night flight” by Mohammed from Saudi Arabia to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem to heaven and back again. There is a worry that Ahmadinejad is planning some sort of apocalyptic attack as his ‘“response” on August 22. If so, time is short and the clock is ticking.

It is hard for many Americans to imagine an Iranian leader (or any other world leader) actually trying to bring about the end of the world by launching a nuclear attack to destroy millions of Jews and Christians. But it is precisely this type of attack that I wrote about in my recent political thrillers, The Ezekiel Option and The Copper Scroll. One of my goals was to help people understand this brand of radical Islamic thinking and its implications for Western civilization. On page 358 of The Ezekiel Option, a fictional Islamic character insists that Israel is going to be “wiped off the face of the map forever.” Five months after Option was published last June, Ahmadinejad gave a speech vowing to wipe Israel “off the map” forever. In the novel, Iran forms a military alliance with Russia and starts buying state-of-the-art weaponry from Moscow to accomplish its apocalyptic objectives. Last December, fiction again became reality, when Iran signed a $1 billion deal with Russia to buy missiles and others weapons.

Muslims are not the only ones who have apocalyptic end-times views, of course. As an evangelical Christian from an Orthodox Jewish heritage, my novels are based on a number of “end times” prophecies that the Bible says will be fulfilled in “the last days.” For example, the Hebrew Prophet Ezekiel — writing 2,500 years ago — described a future Middle Eastern war to annihilate Israel that is known today by Bible scholars as the “War of Gog and Magog.” Jews and Christians who take Ezekiel’s prophecies seriously believe that at the last minute the God of Israel will supernaturally intervene to defeat Israel’s enemies in this war. By contrast, the Muslim version of the “War of “Gog and Magog“ found in the Koran concludes with Muslims winning. The Ezekiel Option and The Copper Scroll imagine how such prophecies could play themselves out in modern times. But suddenly this is no longer the stuff of fiction. Ahmadinejad actually seems intent on launching the “War of Gog and Magog.”

Bernard Lewis of Princeton University, arguably the world’s foremost expert on Middle Eastern history, wrote an essay for the Wall Street Journal last Tuesday warning that Ahmadinejad’s apocalyptic objectives could lead to a “cataclysmic” attack on August 22. Lewis observed that there it is not possible to say with any certainty that such an attack is planned, but he felt compelled to explain to Americans just how dangerous Ahmadinejad’s thinking is, especially in light of Islamic, Jewish, and Christian “end times” theology, such as the “War of Gog and Magog” and “Armageddon.” How, Lewis asked, can you negotiate with a man who believes it is his religious duty and mission to bring about the end of the world? How can you deter a man who wants to die and go to paradise, but believes he won’t actually die in such a war because Allah is on his side to kill millions of “infidels”?

Lewis’s warning was prudent and needed, as was his careful explanation of the apocalyptic thinking driving the Iranian leadership at present. But Lewis’s conclusion was puzzling. He writes:

“How then can one confront such an enemy, with such a view of life and death?” he wrote. “Some immediate precautions are obviously possible and necessary. In the long term, it would seem that the best, perhaps the only hope is to appeal to those Muslims, Iranians, Arabs and others who do not share these apocalyptic perceptions and aspirations, and feel as much threatened, indeed even more threatened, than we are. There must be many such, probably even a majority in the lands of Islam. Now is the time for them to save their countries, their societies and their religion from the madness of MAD [the Cold War policy of Mutual Assured Destruction].”

’This is indeed a wise “long-term” strategy, trying to win over Islamic moderates, but Lewis writes as if the danger posed by Iran is not an immediate one, as if we have the luxury of relying on far-sighted strategies. But ’Lewis himself is suggesting that Iran may be planning “cataclysmic” attacks to begin as early as August 22. That doesn’t leave a lot of time for long-term planning. We all hope and pray that August 22 is not the day Ahmadinejad has chosen to launch the apocalypse, but there is little doubt in the White House and at the CIA that the Iranian leader is feverishly trying to build, buy, or steal nuclear weapons, and that he will quite likely use them once he has them.

All of this raises very serious questions for the president and the nation. How much time do we have to pursue a diplomatic track with Iran? At what point do we have to conclude that negotiations are going nowhere? Are we prepared to live with a nuclear-armed Iran? If so, how? If not, what is the president prepared to do to protect Americans and our allies from an Iranian nuclear-strike, or nuclear blackmail?

In his famous “axis of evil” speech on January 29, 2002, President Bush made the following case:

“We will work closely with our coalition to deny terrorists and their state sponsors the materials, technology, and expertise to make and deliver weapons of mass destruction. We will develop and deploy effective missile defenses to protect America and our allies from sudden attack. And all nations should know: America will do what is necessary to ensure our nation’s security. We’ll be deliberate, yet time is not on our side. I will not wait on events, while dangers gather. I will not stand by, as peril draws closer and closer. The United States of America will not permit the world’s most dangerous regimes to threaten us with the world’s most destructive weapons.”

Today, the country is deeply divided over whether using military force in Iraq was the right thing to do. But the Iranian nuclear threat is now far worse than the Iraqi threat of having or obtaining weapons of mass destruction was then. President Bush has a decision to make and precious little time to make it. For let’s be clear: should Iran go nuclear on this president’s watch, all the gains made to date in the War on Terror will be wiped out overnight. That is not a legacy this president wants, nor one this nation can afford.

— Joel C. Rosenberg, a one-time aide to former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Deputy Prime Minister Natan Sharansky, is a New York Times best-selling author of Middle East-based political thrillers. His new novel is The Copper Scroll. His forthcoming non-fiction book is entitled Epicenter: Why The Current Rumblings In The Middle East Will Change Your World.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NWNmMWM5MjhhMzVjZTM0ZmI1ZmJlYzAxNzU3NDEyMWI=

 

[Mr. P]

In recent days, Ahmadinejad and his advisers have said that Iran will answer the world regarding the future of its nuclear program on August 22. …. There is a worry that Ahmadinejad is planning some sort of apocalyptic attack as his ‘“response” on August 22. If so, time is short and the clock is ticking.

If there is an attack on Israel or the US on the 22nd , nuclear or otherwise by Iran, I don’t think we have any choice but to turn their Country into a sea of glass. It’ll save millions of lives IMO.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Some theories on Gog and Magog:

Also note that the Gog/Magog war is not the same as Armaggendon.

The Coming War of Gog and Magog, an Islamic Invasion?

Ezekiel 38 through 39 tells of a future invasion of Israel by a vast coalition of nations that surround it. As we read the headlines in the newspapers of today, and witness the conflict in the Middle East, it's not hard to imagine that this invasion prophesied over 2600 years ago, could be fulfilled in our lifetime. Ezekiel 36-37 predicts a gathering of the Jews to the nation of Israel, which will be followed by this massive invasion. For 19 centuries the Jewish people were scattered throughout the world, and until May 14, 1948 there was no nation of Israel to invade. With the nation of Israel now a reality, the stage seems set for the war that will usher in the tribulation and the rise of the Antichrist; a war that will end with the destruction of Israel's enemies by God Himself, and lead to the signing of a peace treaty with the Antichrist.

As you read Ezekiel 38 and 39, it isn't just the creation of the nation of Israel that makes this prophecy seem likely to be fulfilled in the near future. The nations that God tells us will form this coalition against Israel seem more likely now than perhaps ever before to form just such an alliance. To understand the prophecies of Ezekiel about this future invasion, it's important to understand who the players will be.

There are many theories as to who will join in this future invasion of Israel. Before going through a list of the individual nations, I'll list some of the more common theories you'll hear when studying the prophecies from Ezekiel 38.

Ezekiel 38:1-6 The word of the Lord came to me; Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal; prophesy against him and say: 'This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with your whole army - your horsemen fully armed, and a great horde with large and small shields, all of them brandishing their swords. Persia, Cush and Put will be with them, all with shields and helmets, also Gomer with all its troops, and Beth Togarmah from the far north with all its troops - the many nations with you.'

1. Hashemite Kingdom Theory: The Islamic Nations will come against Israel either by an Iraqi-led, Jordanian led, or Turkish led coalition. The enemy from the north refers to the areas of Syria, Turkey, and Iraq. These Islamic nations make up the lands occupied by Magog, Gomer, Togarmah, Meshech and Tubal.

2. Caucus Theory: Gog and Magog are the Arab nations in an alliance with the Muslim republics of the former Soviet Union. This theory leaves out most of Russia, and includes only the southern part.

3. All Europe theory: Gog and Magog are the sons of Japeth thus the originators of the European races. Gog and Magog therefore indicates all of Europe. This is not a widely held theory and I could find little support for it.

4. Russian Theory: The Hebrew word 'rosh' in verse 3 is identified with Russia, 'Tubal' with Tiblisi or Tobolsk and 'Meshech' with Moscow, therefore Gog and Magog refers to Russia. This is one of the most commonly held views and is based on a different interpretation of the Hebrew word Rosh (used as a noun rather than adjective), similarities in the pronunciation of words, and the Greek translation of Rosh referring to a tribe of people found in what is now Russia.

5. Indo-European Theory: Gog and Magog include the nations descending from Japheth: Russia, the Caucasus(Turkey), Iraq, and the Islamic republics of Central Asia. The coalition is an alliance of Arab nations, Muslim republics, Georgia, southern Russia and the Black sea area.

These are some of the theories you will find if you do any research into the prophecies of Ezekiel 38. You may also find interpretations that are a combination of these, and in fact, I tend to find more evidence for a version of the Indo-European and Caucacus Theory.

Before looking at the participants of this invasion in more detail, it's important to understand that the war described in Ezekiel 38 is not the same as the war that will come at the end of the tribulation when Jesus returns to defeat the Antichrist and establish his millennial kingdom. How do we know this? The war at the end of the tribulation, known as Armageddon, is a world war. Revelation tells us that this battle will involve all nations. The war described in Ezekiel includes specific nations that invade Israel. Also, Armageddon is at the climax of the tribulation, while the war described in Ezekiel comes well before then.

cont.
http://www.contenderministries.org/prophecy/gogmagog.php

 

[Annie]

Crazy day! I got up early and checked in, but was in my son's dorm room and we all had to get going, so all I caught was the first post about British flight problems because of a threat and on yahoo, the news that 21 had been arrested, not enough time to read that article.

Started from son's school, to daughter's school to drop her back off. Couldn't get AM news because of being in the boonies, for nearly an hour. (Needless to say, me without news, not to mention was not a pretty picture!)

Then heard more, including that CIA was not brought in, for fear of leaks. Also started hearing that since the announcement came from Scotland Yard, the administration's policies on fighting a 'war' as opposed to police action, had been proven wrong.

Contrarily later reports were saying that some arrests this week in Pakistan had led to better information, then some of those involved started making ticket reservations-that is when the CIA was notified. That's pretty much where I was, just now reading more. There are a lot of links and decent analysis:

http://www.brendanloy.com/2006/08/did-we-foil-the-big-one.html

Did we foil the “Big One”?
Posted by Brendan Loy on Thursday, August 10, 2006 at 2:24 pm

If this is true, it’s both scary and reassuring.

Scary because they almost hit us again. Reassuring because we (apparently) stopped them.

This time.

Excerpt from the AP article:

The plot had been in the works for months, and its goal was horrific. One after another, planes would have exploded in the sky, sending hundreds of men, women and children to their deaths.

Counterterrorism officials said Thursday the plan thwarted in London appears to bear the fingerprints of al-Qaida, and may even have been “the Big One” they have been dreading since Sept. 11, 2001…

“In terms of scale, it was probably designed to be … a new Sept. 11,” said Jean-Charles Brisard, a French private investigator who works with lawyers of many Sept. 11 victims. …

There have been dozens of thwarted plots around the world since the Sept. 11 attacks, and several were murderously successful. Suicide bombers killed 52 people in London on July 7, 2005, 58 in two attacks in Istanbul, Turkey in 2003, and 202 in Bali in 2002. Islamic radicals killed 191 people in Madrid on March 11, 2004, then blew themselves up days later as police closed in.

While al-Qaida’s call for global jihad clearly acted as inspiration, there has been no direct evidence that bin Laden or his No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahri, had advance knowledge of those attacks, that they helped plan them, or that they provided financial or logistical help to those who carried them out.

The group’s failure to match the destruction it inflicted on Sept. 11 has led to speculation that a global dragnet that has forced bin Laden into hiding and ensnared many of his most trusted deputies may have degraded al-Qaida’s abilities.

Analysts said Thursday that is a theory to be believed only at the world’s peril.

The plan thwarted by the British had the potential to dwarf the attacks of recent years - killing hundreds, perhaps thousands.​

Thousands? Yes… thousands. Donald Sensing writes that if there were, as some reports state, as many as ten targeted planes, all Boeing 747s…

…the death toll might have exceeded that of al Qaeda’s attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. Ten Boeing 747 airliners easily carry far more than the 3,000 people who died in New York, Arlington and Pennsylvania.
​

Back to the AP article:

Magnus Ranstorp, a terrorism expert at Sweden’s Center for Asymmetric Threat Studies who has done extensive research on al-Qaida’s recruiting efforts in Europe, said the foiled plot in Britain “could very well have been an attempt at ‘the Big One.’”

He warned against doubting the gravity of the threat.

“This was really serious. Police have no reason to play politics. I think one should take what they say very seriously,” he said.

Andrea Nativi, a researcher at the Rome-based Military Center for Strategic Studies, said the plot resembled the Sept. 11 attacks in ambition and was entirely different in scope from other terror schemes of recent years.

“By comparison, the London subway attacks look like child’s play,” he said.
​

The BBC has more:

According to BBC security correspondent Gordon Corera, the authorities believe the target of the plot included US as well as UK airlines flying to all parts of the US and it seemed to have involved a number of waves of simultaneous attacks.

It is thought there could have been three waves of attacks on different days, targeting three planes each time.

Security experts believe there were plans to detonate liquid explosives on up to 10 planes.

Officials say the explosives could have been sophisticated and extremely effective. It is possible they could have been carried in fizzy drink bottles or cans.

The plot was expected to be carried out soon.​

“Soon,” eh? Does anyone else wonder if the planned date for the attack was August 22?

P.S. More on the timetable:

The terrorist attack foiled by British authorities on Thursday was aimed at blowing up as many as 10 airplanes on trans-Atlantic flights, and plotters hoped to stage a dry run within two days, according to U.S. intelligence officials.

The actual attack would have followed within days.​

August 22, the date Iran’s president has been dropping hints about, is arguably “within days” — it’s just 12 days away.

What did Ahmadinejad know, and when did he know it?

 

[manu1959]

so on august 22nd iran nukes.....whomever.....later that day iran ceases to exist....later that night....they run out of virgins

 

[Annie]

so on august 22nd iran nukes.....whomever.....later that day iran ceases to exist....later that night....they run out of virgins

I'm unsure what it means, if anything. I don't think they have nukes, yet.

 

[manu1959]

I'm unsure what it means, if anything. I don't think they have nukes, yet.

i firmly believe that they will nuke someone as soon as they can.....so they can martyr an entire country

 

[Annie]

i firmly believe that they will nuke someone as soon as they can.....so they can martyr an entire country

Oh on that we agree, when they have one, they'd use it. Perhaps they bought from NK?

 

[manu1959]

Oh on that we agree, when they have one, they'd use it. Perhaps they bought from NK?

they have it, of that i am sure....they will nuke israel, dc, and london on the same day.....as soon as they can get it in place they will do it.....9/11 was a probe.....madrid was a dry run london was a dry run today was a dry run....

it will get ugly soon....

the middle east will be toast after that though.....it will make the crusades look like a hug fest.....

wonder if the dems will try to negotiate?

 

[Mr. P]

they have it, of that i am sure....they will nuke israel, dc, and london on the same day.....as soon as they can get it in place they will do it.....9/11 was a probe.....madrid was a dry run london was a dry run today was a dry run....

it will get ugly soon....

the middle east will be toast after that though.....it will make the crusades look like a hug fest.....

wonder if the dems will try to negotiate?

Gives new meaning to Pre-emptive doesn’t it?

 

[Annie]

they have it, of that i am sure....they will nuke israel, dc, and london on the same day.....as soon as they can get it in place they will do it.....9/11 was a probe.....madrid was a dry run london was a dry run today was a dry run....

it will get ugly soon....

the middle east will be toast after that though.....it will make the crusades look like a hug fest.....

wonder if the dems will try to negotiate?

I've never heard you post something like this. I hope you are wrong, when you sound like ME I get scared! :fifty:

 

[manu1959]

I've never heard you post something like this. I hope you are wrong, when you sound like ME I get scared! :fifty:

one of those days.....

 

[Annie]

one of those days.....

I think that, I've thought that since 9/11. You are supposed to keep me from going over the edge!

 

[manu1959]

I think that, I've thought that since 9/11. You are supposed to keep me from going over the edge!

ok....everything will be just fine...nothing bad will ever happen

 

[Annie]

ok....everything will be just fine...nothing bad will ever happen

:teeth: Thanks for that, sincerely. Not! I know that bad things are coming, I just wish I had confidence that our country would respond correctly. Truth is, I do not think so. With that said, Europe will be worse, but with no one to respond, I'm not sure what those of us that care are left to do?

 

[manu1959]

:teeth: Thanks for that, sincerely. Not! I know that bad things are coming, I just wish I had confidence that our country would respond correctly. Truth is, I do not think so. With that said, Europe will be worse, but with no one to respond, I'm not sure what those of us that care are left to do?

i find it odd that

spainish trains got blown up and they did nothing....

russian school children got burned alive and they did nothing....

london was bombed and they did nothing.....

iran must feel prtty cocky

so they attack by proxy israel.....and only israel responds

iran must feel pretty bold right now....

they soon will press the attack....and if they are very bold...as i think they will be.....

and if we all again do nothing.....yet again

it will be as you fear....

 

[Annie]

i find it odd that

spainish trains got blown up and they did nothing....

russian school children got burned alive and they did nothing....

london was bombed and they did nothing.....

iran must feel prtty cocky

so they attack by proxy israel.....and only israel responds

iran must feel pretty bold right now....

they soon will press the attack....and if they are very bold...as i think they will be.....

and if we all again do nothing.....yet again

it will be as you fear....

I know. And part of me thinks, 'they' deserve what they wanted. Then there are those of us that keep screaming in the dark. I'm so sick of living with Turbin Durbin and Osama Obama...

 

[manu1959]

I know. And part of me thinks, 'they' deserve what they wanted. Then there are those of us that keep screaming in the dark. I'm so sick of living with Turbin Durbin and Osama Obama...

you may recall that when wtc ii hit everyone wanted to retaliate and we did.....iran will never know what hit them.....