CIA sold rigged encryption machines to allies.

[Manonthestreet]

Hopefully..enough to keep us safe. These are not nice people...and it's not a nice job. Our freedoms often depend upon their moral and ethical flexibility--I for one...accept the cost.

It's things like the Patriot Act and its follow-up incarnations..that concern me---domestic spying is a different story..and I believe on keeping our dogs on a short lease..inside our borders.

A regime-change war in Syria is an acceptable cost ???

Look..you can cherry-pick disasters, missed opportunities and outright incompetence--they all exist--but when the successes are usually not known..and the failures trumpeted--it can be a bit hard to judge effectiveness.

BTW...Trump has ignored what his intelligence people have been telling him about Syria....and many other places. What is happening now is a result of that. As we found out with Iraq..when you produce a power vacuum..someone moves in...Russia and Turkey are squabbling..is that in our interest/ It might be..it might not be. One thing is sure..the world is not a safer place now because of it. I do think bringing our troops home now is the best idea...absent any clear win in sight.

I would have done something utterly different..I'd have backed the Kurdish State..used the opportunity to depose Assad..trim the Turks...and create a client stake beholden to us...Kurdistan.

If our troops are to be at risk..at least let the reward be there as well.

Our intelligence is not failing us..for the most part it's the politics that are ridiculous!

Spoken like a true master of the universe. Isn't that the policy that failed in Iraq

Nope..it was not..regime change is not the same thing as creating a new nation...that is dependent on us..and we, on them. The Kurds would have been an entire new dynamic--composed of Kurds from three nations..Syria, Turkey and Iraq. As for Iraq...no one really wanted Iraq to succeed anyway..they just wanted to milk it for money.

FYI..we HAD that with Saddam--corrupt, sure..but a bonafide counterweight to Iran..Bush JR and Cheney fucked that up!

I think you confirmed my analysis. Yeah they would just all say thank you Massah......

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Hopefully..enough to keep us safe. These are not nice people...and it's not a nice job. Our freedoms often depend upon their moral and ethical flexibility--I for one...accept the cost.

It's things like the Patriot Act and its follow-up incarnations..that concern me---domestic spying is a different story..and I believe on keeping our dogs on a short lease..inside our borders.

A regime-change war in Syria is an acceptable cost ???

Look..you can cherry-pick disasters, missed opportunities and outright incompetence--they all exist--but when the successes are usually not known..and the failures trumpeted--it can be a bit hard to judge effectiveness.

BTW...Trump has ignored what his intelligence people have been telling him about Syria....and many other places. What is happening now is a result of that. As we found out with Iraq..when you produce a power vacuum..someone moves in...Russia and Turkey are squabbling..is that in our interest/ It might be..it might not be. One thing is sure..the world is not a safer place now because of it. I do think bringing our troops home now is the best idea...absent any clear win in sight.

I would have done something utterly different..I'd have backed the Kurdish State..used the opportunity to depose Assad..trim the Turks...and create a client stake beholden to us...Kurdistan.

If our troops are to be at risk..at least let the reward be there as well.

Our intelligence is not failing us..for the most part it's the politics that are ridiculous!

Spoken like a true master of the universe. Isn't that the policy that failed in Iraq

Nope..it was not..regime change is not the same thing as creating a new nation...that is dependent on us..and we, on them. The Kurds would have been an entire new dynamic--composed of Kurds from three nations..Syria, Turkey and Iraq. As for Iraq...no one really wanted Iraq to succeed anyway..they just wanted to milk it for money.

FYI..we HAD that with Saddam--corrupt, sure..but a bonafide counterweight to Iran..Bush JR and Cheney fucked that up!

I think you confirmed my analysis. Yeah they would just all say thank you Massah......

LOL! maybe....if we treated them as good as we treat the Israelis and Saudis!

 

[Manonthestreet]

A regime-change war in Syria is an acceptable cost ???

Look..you can cherry-pick disasters, missed opportunities and outright incompetence--they all exist--but when the successes are usually not known..and the failures trumpeted--it can be a bit hard to judge effectiveness.

BTW...Trump has ignored what his intelligence people have been telling him about Syria....and many other places. What is happening now is a result of that. As we found out with Iraq..when you produce a power vacuum..someone moves in...Russia and Turkey are squabbling..is that in our interest/ It might be..it might not be. One thing is sure..the world is not a safer place now because of it. I do think bringing our troops home now is the best idea...absent any clear win in sight.

I would have done something utterly different..I'd have backed the Kurdish State..used the opportunity to depose Assad..trim the Turks...and create a client stake beholden to us...Kurdistan.

If our troops are to be at risk..at least let the reward be there as well.

Our intelligence is not failing us..for the most part it's the politics that are ridiculous!

Spoken like a true master of the universe. Isn't that the policy that failed in Iraq

Nope..it was not..regime change is not the same thing as creating a new nation...that is dependent on us..and we, on them. The Kurds would have been an entire new dynamic--composed of Kurds from three nations..Syria, Turkey and Iraq. As for Iraq...no one really wanted Iraq to succeed anyway..they just wanted to milk it for money.

FYI..we HAD that with Saddam--corrupt, sure..but a bonafide counterweight to Iran..Bush JR and Cheney fucked that up!

I think you confirmed my analysis. Yeah they would just all say thank you Massah......

LOL! maybe....if we treated them as good as we treat the Israelis and Saudis!

Try never.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Look..you can cherry-pick disasters, missed opportunities and outright incompetence--they all exist--but when the successes are usually not known..and the failures trumpeted--it can be a bit hard to judge effectiveness.

BTW...Trump has ignored what his intelligence people have been telling him about Syria....and many other places. What is happening now is a result of that. As we found out with Iraq..when you produce a power vacuum..someone moves in...Russia and Turkey are squabbling..is that in our interest/ It might be..it might not be. One thing is sure..the world is not a safer place now because of it. I do think bringing our troops home now is the best idea...absent any clear win in sight.

I would have done something utterly different..I'd have backed the Kurdish State..used the opportunity to depose Assad..trim the Turks...and create a client stake beholden to us...Kurdistan.

If our troops are to be at risk..at least let the reward be there as well.

Our intelligence is not failing us..for the most part it's the politics that are ridiculous!

Spoken like a true master of the universe. Isn't that the policy that failed in Iraq

Nope..it was not..regime change is not the same thing as creating a new nation...that is dependent on us..and we, on them. The Kurds would have been an entire new dynamic--composed of Kurds from three nations..Syria, Turkey and Iraq. As for Iraq...no one really wanted Iraq to succeed anyway..they just wanted to milk it for money.

FYI..we HAD that with Saddam--corrupt, sure..but a bonafide counterweight to Iran..Bush JR and Cheney fucked that up!

I think you confirmed my analysis. Yeah they would just all say thank you Massah......

LOL! maybe....if we treated them as good as we treat the Israelis and Saudis!

Try never.

We'll never know..as we used them again and tossed them to the wolves..again.

 

[the other mike]

They all probably share information.

The NSA is basically 'spliced' into everything
and they can share with whoever they want.

And it's still unconstitutional, because it was never approved by Congress.