China imposes sanctions on 28 Trump-era officials including Pompeo

[Coyote]

This week Mike Pompeo came up with a new disruptive international version of Trump’s “Stop the STEAL!” It was “Stop the GENOCIDE in Xinjiang!”

Biden’s administration at present is endorsing this new dangerous and demagogic slogan, which will only exacerbate the new China-U.S. Cold War. The U.S. is continuing to extend political/economic sanctions to Chinese leaders and companies, as they have done to Russian banks and individuals earlier. Two can play at these games.

***

BEIJING (Reuters) - China said on Wednesday it wanted to cooperate with President Joe Biden’s new U.S. administration, while announcing sanctions against “lying and cheating” outgoing Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and 27 other top officials under Donald Trump.

The move was a sign of China’s anger, especially at an accusation Pompeo made on his final full day in office that China had committed genocide against its Uighur Muslims, an assessment that Biden’s choice to succeed Pompeo, Anthony Blinken, said he shared....

The other outgoing and former Trump officials sanctioned included trade chief Peter Navarro, National Security Advisers Robert O’Brien and John Bolton, Health Secretary Alex Azar, U.N. ambassador Kelly Craft and former top Trump aide Steve Bannon....

The 28 ex-officials and immediate family members would be banned from entering mainland China, Hong Kong or Macao, and companies and institutions associated with them restricted from doing business with China....

China imposes sanctions on 28 Trump-era officials including Pompeo

***

See my comment below outlining a more appropriate view of the situation in Xinjiang. If the Biden Administration wants a decent relationship with China, it can negotiate harder and more effectively, but it must respect China’s own national security “red llnes” — and stop using inflammatory language as with this charge of “genocide.”

https://www.usmessageboard.com/thre...-potus-in-3-hours.876418/page-2#post-26386036

Pompeo is absolutely right...but why did he wait until the last day to utter it? Self serving.

Is this a “red line” that should be “respected”? I don’t think human rights abuses like this should be respected.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

This week Mike Pompeo came up with a new disruptive international version of Trump’s “Stop the STEAL!” It was “Stop the GENOCIDE in Xinjiang!”

Biden’s administration at present is endorsing this new dangerous and demagogic slogan, which will only exacerbate the new China-U.S. Cold War. The U.S. is continuing to extend political/economic sanctions to Chinese leaders and companies, as they have done to Russian banks and individuals earlier. Two can play at these games.

***

BEIJING (Reuters) - China said on Wednesday it wanted to cooperate with President Joe Biden’s new U.S. administration, while announcing sanctions against “lying and cheating” outgoing Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and 27 other top officials under Donald Trump.

The move was a sign of China’s anger, especially at an accusation Pompeo made on his final full day in office that China had committed genocide against its Uighur Muslims, an assessment that Biden’s choice to succeed Pompeo, Anthony Blinken, said he shared....

The other outgoing and former Trump officials sanctioned included trade chief Peter Navarro, National Security Advisers Robert O’Brien and John Bolton, Health Secretary Alex Azar, U.N. ambassador Kelly Craft and former top Trump aide Steve Bannon....

The 28 ex-officials and immediate family members would be banned from entering mainland China, Hong Kong or Macao, and companies and institutions associated with them restricted from doing business with China....

China imposes sanctions on 28 Trump-era officials including Pompeo

***

See my comment below outlining a more appropriate view of the situation in Xinjiang. If the Biden Administration wants a decent relationship with China, it can negotiate harder and more effectively, but it must respect China’s own national security “red llnes” — and stop using inflammatory language as with this charge of “genocide.”

https://www.usmessageboard.com/thre...-potus-in-3-hours.876418/page-2#post-26386036

Pompeo is absolutely right...but why did he wait until the last day to utter it? Self serving.

Is this a “red line” that should be “respected”? I don’t think human rights abuses like this should be respected.

Here Coyote solidarizes with Trump’s neo-con ex-CIA and State Department Secretary Mike Pompeo, demonstrating once again the essential parochialism and moralistic hypocrisy of “Liberal” Democratic foreign policy — which is not in practice different than nasty “America First” nationalism.

The U.S. went half way around the world to arm and support BinLaden and the fundamentalist Mujahadeen in Afghanistan, and then invaded the country we helped destroy, because we were “morally superior” ... to somebody or other. We invaded and destroyed countries throughout the Middle East to control its oil. The “human rights” we violated were stupendous. Now we claim we have the right to falsely charge the Chinese with not just “human rights abuses,” but with GENOCIDE in their own country.

Wall Street globalists, American Empire builders, America Firsters, Liberal Democrats and Conservative Republicans — they all live in their own arrogant and unreal bubbles. They all defend demagogic “American exceptionalism” at the ideological level. Coyote shows the same demagogic attitude when “questioning” me personally.

 

[Coyote]

This week Mike Pompeo came up with a new disruptive international version of Trump’s “Stop the STEAL!” It was “Stop the GENOCIDE in Xinjiang!”

Biden’s administration at present is endorsing this new dangerous and demagogic slogan, which will only exacerbate the new China-U.S. Cold War. The U.S. is continuing to extend political/economic sanctions to Chinese leaders and companies, as they have done to Russian banks and individuals earlier. Two can play at these games.

***

BEIJING (Reuters) - China said on Wednesday it wanted to cooperate with President Joe Biden’s new U.S. administration, while announcing sanctions against “lying and cheating” outgoing Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and 27 other top officials under Donald Trump.

The move was a sign of China’s anger, especially at an accusation Pompeo made on his final full day in office that China had committed genocide against its Uighur Muslims, an assessment that Biden’s choice to succeed Pompeo, Anthony Blinken, said he shared....

The other outgoing and former Trump officials sanctioned included trade chief Peter Navarro, National Security Advisers Robert O’Brien and John Bolton, Health Secretary Alex Azar, U.N. ambassador Kelly Craft and former top Trump aide Steve Bannon....

The 28 ex-officials and immediate family members would be banned from entering mainland China, Hong Kong or Macao, and companies and institutions associated with them restricted from doing business with China....

China imposes sanctions on 28 Trump-era officials including Pompeo

***

See my comment below outlining a more appropriate view of the situation in Xinjiang. If the Biden Administration wants a decent relationship with China, it can negotiate harder and more effectively, but it must respect China’s own national security “red llnes” — and stop using inflammatory language as with this charge of “genocide.”

https://www.usmessageboard.com/thre...-potus-in-3-hours.876418/page-2#post-26386036

Pompeo is absolutely right...but why did he wait until the last day to utter it? Self serving.

Is this a “red line” that should be “respected”? I don’t think human rights abuses like this should be respected.

Here Coyote solidarizes with Trump’s neo-con ex-CIA and State Department Secretary Mike Pompeo, demonstrating once again the essential parochialism and moralistic hypocrisy of “Liberal” Democratic foreign policy — which is not in practice different than nasty “America First” nationalism.

I wouldn't go so far as that. Pompeo is an ass and his recent actions are self serving.

But I disagree with what you say. In practice - most ideals fall short, sacrificed to pragmatism and "national interest".

Does that mean you do nothing in regards to human rights abuses? China? Myanmar? etc etc?

The U.S. went half way around the world to arm and support BinLaden and the fundamentalist Mujahadeen in Afghanistan, and then invaded the country we helped destroy, because we were “morally superior” ... to somebody or other. We invaded and destroyed countries throughout the Middle East to control its oil. The “human rights” we violated were stupendous. Now we claim we have the right to falsely charge the Chinese with not just “human rights abuses,” but with GENOCIDE in their own country.

I don't see anyone defending the first items, so I'm not going to go there. But HOW is China's human rights abuses (in regards to the Uighurs and Kazhaks for instance) "false"? It's pretty well documented, much like Myanmar.

Wall Street globalists, American Empire builders, America Firsters, Liberal Democrats and Conservative Republicans — they all live in their own arrogant and unreal bubbles. They all defend demagogic “American exceptionalism” at the ideological level. Coyote shows the same demagogic attitude when “questioning” me personally.

You can't be questioned?

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

But HOW is China's human rights abuses (in regards to the Uighurs and Kazhaks for instance) "false"?

I did not mean and do not believe that “China’s human rights abuses ... are ‘false.’” Nor that they are minor. I meant only that it was false to categorize them as “genocide.” Perhaps I was not as clear as I could have been.

As for questioning me, of course that is fair. Perhaps I feel simply put upon. Some of your questions, like “Does that mean you do nothing in regards to human rights abuses?” may not even have been aimed at me.

To be honest, there is really no good or effective answer to this latter question. Neither I nor anybody in the outside world as a whole can really do a damn thing about Xinjiang or many other important developments in China.

This is especially so given that in the eyes of China’s leaders and even its populace our own system, 4 times as rich per capita as they are, has failed spectacularly over hundreds of years to resolve our own racial and domestic security problems. China does not suffer the same crime in their streets, doesn’t have the same ethnic ghettos in their cities, nor the drugs, that we have. They tear down ghettos and build whole new neighborhoods — whole new cities — to house waves of peasants (with all the social problems this creates) migrating from the countryside.

Then there is our “individualistic” society and our “democratic two-party” governing system — now utterly suspect and anarchic, even ridiculous in their eyes. That the invaders of the Middle East and Afghanistan should tell them how to handle a domestic Muslim minority strikes them as absurd. China thinks it can integrate the Uighurs like they have Mongols, Manchurians, most Tibetans and the Hui. They aren’t impressed with us any more, they are not listening to us on these matters of which we know nothing, and when they listen to our complaints of this sort right now they see us only as trying to hurt them, punish them for their hard-won economic successes.

Sadly, this Western campaign is not helping the Uighurs, is not convincing Han Chinese they are wrong in Xinjiang, and it serves only as a rallying cry for those who want a full scale Cold War, or worse.

 

[Unkotare]

.....China does not suffer the same crime in their streets......

There is far, far, far more street crime in China than the outside world generally understands. Do not equate what information the CCP lets out with what really happens.

 

[Unkotare]

..... doesn’t have the same ethnic ghettos in their cities......

Did you really just post that? In light of the topic at hand? Really?

 

[Unkotare]

.....They tear down ghettos and build whole new neighborhoods — whole new cities — .....

How about they destroy entire towns and displace millions when they want to build a damn or a new city to sit empty?

 

[cnm]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your comments here, but am I take this as you standing up for an oppressive regime that tortures and murders its own people?

As opposed to the oppressive torture and murder of other people, like the US does/did, for example?

 

[cnm]

How about they destroy entire towns and displace millions when they want to build a damn or a new city to sit empty?

How about destroying entire towns just for a bit of shock and awe. Did you support that?

 

[wamose]

You'd have to be crazy to want to go there and drink their filthy water, breath their chemical ladened air and be under 24 hr. surveillance. But don't worry, Joe has already promised to clean up their environment with US taxpayer money. But for now nobody cares about being banned from that shithole.

 

[cnm]

Amazing how forgetful some Americans become when they want to point a finger. For example, they forget three fingers are pointing back at them.

 

[Unkotare]

How about they destroy entire towns and displace millions when they want to build a damn or a new city to sit empty?

How about destroying entire towns just for a bit of shock and awe. Did you support that?

How does that red herring taste?

 

[Unkotare]

Amazing how forgetful some Americans become when they want to point a finger. For example, they forget three fingers are pointing back at them.

I’ll bet that kind of reasoning seemed to make sense on the playground in third grade.

 

[cnm]

How does that red herring taste?

That was tu quoque, not red herring.

 

[ESay]

If the Chinese put sanctions on some of Trump's officials, then these officials must have done something right.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

.....China does not suffer the same crime in their streets......

There is far, far, far more street crime in China than the outside world generally understands. Do not equate what information the CCP lets out with what really happens.

..... doesn’t have the same ethnic ghettos in their cities......

Did you really just post that? In light of the topic at hand? Really?

.....They tear down ghettos and build whole new neighborhoods — whole new cities — .....

How about they destroy entire towns and displace millions when they want to build a damn or a new city to sit empty?

I lived and traveled in China for many years. Let’s see ... I’ve had a bike stolen, as has my daughter and wife. My brother had his nice camera with all his tourist photos clipped by a pickpocket. I’ve had some almost physical confrontations with cabdrivers and bicyclists who nearly ran me over. But I rarely if ever felt as threatened as I often did walking the streets in NYC.

As for ethnic ghettos, of course I wasn’t talking about Xinjiang towns and cities. The rest of the country’s cities have a huge variety of rural migrant, poor & dilapidated and also rich neighborhoods, but these are not ethnically segregated. The hukou (resident permit) system remains important, a source and limiter of social friction, and much debated. While poverty is still great, and huge differences between rich and poor exists, physical mobility is great and upward economic mobility still seems to be within reach for most, who work and study hard to achieve it.

Your hostility toward building dams and new cities is noted. China still desperately needs clean water and electricity, new infrastructure and new housing.

Perhaps you think any of these three points you raise qualify China as being worthy of being called “genocidal” or just “highly oppressive”? Perhaps the 1.4 billion Chinese should go back to their miserable existence working in primitive agriculture?

Your angry reaction to the points I have made in this thread — which deal with much larger geo-political questions — has frankly surprised me. I recall you generally have opposed many hair-trigger racist generalizations when they have been made in other threads. Of course this Pompeo/Democratic Party/“genocide in China” issue is a rather more complicated question. There is room here for honest differences of opinion.

 

[Unkotare]

...
I lived and traveled in China for many years. ....

You're not the only one.

 

[Unkotare]

...

As for ethnic ghettos, of course I wasn’t talking about Xinjiang towns and cities. ...

You mean you didn't think about what you were saying when you posted that.

 

[Unkotare]

...

Your hostility toward building dams and new cities is noted. .....

I would have expected more of you than that.

 

[Unkotare]

..... China still desperately needs clean water and electricity, new infrastructure and new housing.
....

And to hell with any 'little' people who get in the way and have to be eliminated for the greater good, eh?