Can the U.S. learn from demonstrably superior health care systems?

[schmidlap]

The Former Guy brayed that he would replace the Affordable Care Act with "something terrific!" that covers "everybody!" at "less cost!" As with many of his campaign promises (e,g., building big, beautiful walls and making other nations pay for them) he was blowing gas (Category 5)

The inherent, systemic flaws in the nation's health care system persist, and there are powerful vested interests determined that they be perpetuated - profiteering bureaucrats who feed off the system, grabbing a large portion of every healthcare dollar while treating and/or curing no one.

If the emotionally-driven, knee-jerk ideologues can rationally assess the plight of the nation by objectively examining the superior approaches of other nations, pragmatism may make progress possible.

Four features distinguish top performing countries from the United States:

1) they provide for universal coverage and remove cost barriers;​

​

2) they invest in primary care systems to ensure that high-value services are equitably available in all communities to all people;​

​

3) they reduce administrative burdens that divert time, efforts, and spending from health improvement efforts; and​

​

4) they invest in social services, especially for children and working-age adults.​

SEE

Mirror, Mirror 2021: Reflecting Poorly

The United States trails far behind other high-income countries on measures of health care affordability, administrative efficiency, equity, and outcomes.

www.commonwealthfund.org

 

[theHawk]

The Former Guy brayed that he would replace the Affordable Care Act with "something terrific!" that covers "everybody!" at "less cost!" As with many of his campaign promises (e,g., building big, beautiful walls and making other nations pay for them) he was blowing gas (Category 5)

The inherent, systemic flaws in the nation's health care system persist, and there are powerful vested interests determined that they be perpetuated - profiteering bureaucrats who feed off the system, grabbing a large portion of every healthcare dollar while treating and/or curing no one.

If the emotionally-driven, knee-jerk ideologues can rationally assess the plight of the nation by objectively examining the superior approaches of other nations, pragmatism may make progress possible.

Four features distinguish top performing countries from the United States:

1) they provide for universal coverage and remove cost barriers;​

​

2) they invest in primary care systems to ensure that high-value services are equitably available in all communities to all people;​

​

3) they reduce administrative burdens that divert time, efforts, and spending from health improvement efforts; and​

​

4) they invest in social services, especially for children and working-age adults.​

SEE

Mirror, Mirror 2021: Reflecting Poorly

The United States trails far behind other high-income countries on measures of health care affordability, administrative efficiency, equity, and outcomes.

www.commonwealthfund.org

Bullshit. The state run healthcare systems in other countries is horrendous. Look at the state run healthcare in Germany, it’s so bad that as soon as Germans can afford it, they buy private healthcare insurance.

People from all over the world come to America to get treatments for various diseases. Medical research in America is unparalleled.

 

[schmidlap]

Bullshit. The state run healthcare systems in other countries is horrendous. Look at the state run healthcare in Germany, it’s so bad that as soon as Germans can afford it, they buy private healthcare insurance.

People from all over the world come to America to get treatments for various diseases. Medical research in America is unparalleled.

Your ideological dogmatism and impotence in objectively assessing relative success is noted.

Others acknowledge that maintaining what is by far the most costly system on earth while failing to cover millions (whose medical expenses are routinely dumped un the taxpayer) does not merit such a fanatical adherence to the status quo.

 

[TNHarley]

What do countries with "good" healthcare all have in common?
They dont have 330M people. They also arent governed by a corrupt corporatocracy.
But hey, put our health in the hands of corrupt people that dont give a shit about you. The same people that ruined healthcare in this country in the first place.
Federal supremacists are so emotionally driven, its pathetic.

 

[AMart]

Can you imagine Federal Gov run healthcare/insurance only? To be eligible one would have to take mandatory CRT training, denounce your ancestry, and voting GOP would be a hate crime thus making one not eligible for health care, but illegals would get in the front of the line.

 

[expat_panama]

This thread seems to be descending into personal attacks as a substitute for reason. How about we look at what is. People from all over the world come to the U.S. when they want specialized care --on their own nickel. The only cases where Americans to elsewhere for med care is where folks fly to Latin America on "medical tourism" to get care at reduced cost.

Medical care is a scarce commodity, we can't have it unlimitied and free w/o some kind of allocation restriction. If a government mandate lowers the price below market levels there are shortages that present long waiting times.

Bottom line, I personally fail to see American health care as being inferior to the world norm, although others here may disagree.

 

[AMart]

Your ideological dogmatism and impotence in objectively assessing relative success is noted.

Others acknowledge that maintaining what is by far the most costly system on earth while failing to cover millions (whose medical expenses are routinely dumped un the taxpayer) does not merit such a fanatical adherence to the status quo.

And covering those millions of others will also cost the taxpayer even more blah blah blah.

 

[MisterBeale]

The Former Guy brayed that he would replace the Affordable Care Act with "something terrific!" that covers "everybody!" at "less cost!" As with many of his campaign promises (e,g., building big, beautiful walls and making other nations pay for them) he was blowing gas (Category 5)

The inherent, systemic flaws in the nation's health care system persist, and there are powerful vested interests determined that they be perpetuated - profiteering bureaucrats who feed off the system, grabbing a large portion of every healthcare dollar while treating and/or curing no one.

If the emotionally-driven, knee-jerk ideologues can rationally assess the plight of the nation by objectively examining the superior approaches of other nations, pragmatism may make progress possible.

Four features distinguish top performing countries from the United States:

1) they provide for universal coverage and remove cost barriers;​

​

2) they invest in primary care systems to ensure that high-value services are equitably available in all communities to all people;​

​

3) they reduce administrative burdens that divert time, efforts, and spending from health improvement efforts; and​

​

4) they invest in social services, especially for children and working-age adults.​

SEE

Mirror, Mirror 2021: Reflecting Poorly

The United States trails far behind other high-income countries on measures of health care affordability, administrative efficiency, equity, and outcomes.

www.commonwealthfund.org

All of the nations in the piece you quoted which compared their medical systems to ours;

AUS	CAN	FRA	GER	NETH	NZ	NOR	SWE	SWIZ	UK

Every one of these nations benefit from the global security afforded by the tax paying public of the United States of America. Let's look at the Defense budge allocations of these nations compared to the US, shall we?

Now. . . I am sure that those smaller nations don't have much to contribute. . . but, they also should do their share.

Once all these nation's put into that pot, and the U.S. could scale back, sure, we can talk about providing that same level of care.

But the US has way more people, and there are certain realities, obligations and freedoms that those other nations with, as you say, "demonstrably superior health care systems," enjoy, because of the security provided by the good taxpayers of the United States of America.

You're Welcome.

 

[mindfulzen]

No system is perfect. Must find the balance. If you get federal healthcare, you are kind of doomed to lose lawsuits to getreparations after botched surgery. I have been botched in such healthcare. Know several others to, or knew. They mess up a lot.

You have the opposite in the US with almost all private. Not good either. and 20+% covered by medicare/medicaid. So, how to make it universal, while keeping the insurance, so you can get them to do lwsuits for you? If private insurnce goes, you have a worthless insurancepolicy at the very institution you are suing. Do you like your odds then? Just do 15% paid by employer and 15% paid by employers. Hidden paychecktax before you get your salerycheck. Paid into a private insurance policy.

Then you get cross state competition on drugs and get price transperancy.

 

[schmidlap]

Ideologues cling to the demonstrably inferior U.S. approach, eschewing a pragmatic assessment of the empirical data afforded by alternate approaches.

I promote pragmatism, not dogma.

If there is, anywhere on earth, any nation that demonstrates the superiority of the ideologues' preferred approach, they need only cite it so that it can be objectively assessed and compared.

 

[Polishprince]

Actually, America has the most tremendous health care system in the world by far.

When British subject Mick Jagger needed complicated heart surgery, he came to America.

When Canadian national Alex Trebek had his health crisis, he as well trusted American health care system.

People who care about their health, even when they are in countries with "free" health care, come to America when they themselves are ill. Look at the huge business Buffalo and Detroit medical providers traditionally get from medical tourism from the north?

 

[PoliticalChic]

The Former Guy brayed that he would replace the Affordable Care Act with "something terrific!" that covers "everybody!" at "less cost!" As with many of his campaign promises (e,g., building big, beautiful walls and making other nations pay for them) he was blowing gas (Category 5)

The inherent, systemic flaws in the nation's health care system persist, and there are powerful vested interests determined that they be perpetuated - profiteering bureaucrats who feed off the system, grabbing a large portion of every healthcare dollar while treating and/or curing no one.

If the emotionally-driven, knee-jerk ideologues can rationally assess the plight of the nation by objectively examining the superior approaches of other nations, pragmatism may make progress possible.

Four features distinguish top performing countries from the United States:

1) they provide for universal coverage and remove cost barriers;​

​

2) they invest in primary care systems to ensure that high-value services are equitably available in all communities to all people;​

​

3) they reduce administrative burdens that divert time, efforts, and spending from health improvement efforts; and​

​

4) they invest in social services, especially for children and working-age adults.​

SEE

Mirror, Mirror 2021: Reflecting Poorly

The United States trails far behind other high-income countries on measures of health care affordability, administrative efficiency, equity, and outcomes.

www.commonwealthfund.org

Gads, you're a dunce.


There are no 'superior' healthcare systems.


How to judge healthcare:

a) life expectancy: many people die for reasons that can’t be controlled the medical profession, such as auto accidents, murder, etc., and once you factor out care crashes and homicides, the US ranks number one in worldwide life expectancy!

“One often-heard argument, voiced by the New York Times' Paul Krugman and others, is that America lags behind other countries in crude health outcomes. But such outcomes reflect a mosaic of factors, such as diet, lifestyle, drug use and cultural values. It pains me as a doctor to say this, but health care is just one factor in health.

In The Business of Health, Robert Ohsfeldt and John Schneider factor out intentional and unintentional injuries from life-expectancy statistics and find that Americans who don't die in car crashes or homicides outlive people in any other Western country.

And if we measure a health care system by how well it serves its sick citizens, American medicine excels.
Private Site

She cites a study by Professors Ohsfeldt and Schneider at the University of Iowa, which shows that, if you leave out people who are victims of homicide or who die in automobile accidents, Americans live longer than people in any other Western country.

http://www.creators.com/conservative/thomas-sowell/medical-care-facts-and-fables.html

" The standardized estimate of life expectancy at birth is the mean of the predicted value for each country over the period 1980–99. As shown in table 1-5, the raw (not standardized) mean life expectancy at birth for the United States over this period was 75.3 years, compared to 78.7 years for Japan, 78.0 years for Iceland, and 77.7 years for Sweden. However, after accounting for the unusually high fatal-injury rates in the United States, the estimate of standardized life expectancy at birth is 76.9 years, which is higher than the estimates for any other OECD country." http://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/-the-business-of-health_110115929760.pdf

 

[PoliticalChic]

Ideologues cling to the demonstrably inferior U.S. approach, eschewing a pragmatic assessment of the empirical data afforded by alternate approaches.

I promote pragmatism, not dogma.

If there is, anywhere on earth, any nation that demonstrates the superiority of the ideologues' preferred approach, they need only cite it so that it can be objectively assessed and compared.

Remember Democrat Michael Moore proclaiming Cuba's medical care????

Just like this dunce, the OP>>..


WATCH: Cuban girl reveals HARSH truth about life in Cuba under Communist rule

WATCH: Cuban girl reveals HARSH truth about life in Cuba under Communist rule





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Everything You've Ever Seen About Cuba Is A Lie

 

[fncceo]

Can the U.S. learn from demonstrably superior health care systems?​

In the unlikely event anyone ever comes up with one ... I'll let you know.

In the meantime, I'll keep watching people from all over the world fly to America for all the state of the art medical treatment they can pay for themselves.