Can Putin’s invasion of Ukraine be stopped … without encouraging an “Endless War” there?

Tom Paine 1949

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Mar 15, 2020
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This OP is not about “sanctions” — which will not end Russia’s invasion of Ukraine — but about diplomatic / military realities of the war itself.

The possibilities for a neutral Ukraine disappeared in 2014 and chances for a diplomatic settlement ended with Putin’s bloody February 2022 invasion. That invasion poisoned relations between Ukrainians and Russians … for generations,

The escalating U.S. shipment of arms to Ukraine to defend itself and “liberate all its sovereign territory” masks a number of hard questions. Increasing casualties and exhaustion of both sides — without significant result on the battlefield — may soon re-open new opportunities for diplomacy.

In my opinion, leading responsible political elements in the U.S. must now begin to recognize the exceptional status of Crimea and raise the possibility of an internationally supervised referendum there. In short, they should raise the issue of the “right to self-determination” for Crimea.

Such a “realistic” — don’t laugh just yet — and far-sighted diplomatic proposal, along with continuing military and economic support to Ukraine, could offer hope of an eventual exit from “endless war.”

Its real and immediate purpose and value, assuming exhaustion on all sides settles in, would be to undercut the Russian people’s support for Putin’s invasion and his fascistic campaign to exterminate Ukrainian national sovereignty altogether. Putin’s argument that the Russian state’s very existence is threatened by Ukrainian national self-defense (backed by the West) would be weakened tremendously if such a diplomatic theme were raised by the Biden Administration … at the same time as it continues (or even carefully escalates) arms shipments.

It would also help to unify our own public in the U.S., rightly suspicious of more “endless war” adventurism. It would weaken the appeal of MAGA Republican appeasers and pro-Putin apologists. It would also be in sync with past international law and practice in resolving such complex historic problems. Of course it would disrupt the hopes of certain Western money interests who eye developing pipelines and oil resources under the Black Sea. The neo-con / neo-liberal “maximalists” in the Western community — who really are determined to force the break up the Russian state — will oppose such a diplomatic proposal strongly.

The overthrow of the corrupt (but fairly elected) Ukrainian government by the “Maidan Revolution” in 2014 was followed by a rushed, flawed but genuinely popular Crimean referendum to separate from Ukraine and join Russia. Raising tentatively the possibility of an eventual new referendum under UN supervision would also prevent Crimea becoming a destroyed & depopulated battlefield like much of Donbas, and give time for saner emotions to emerge, while allowing an exhausted Ukraine to concentrate on rebuilding itself, as it must.
 
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Presently neither side want negotiations but for very different reasons .

The Dementia Kid's backers can never "sell" anything but a victory to their completely misinformed people .
Russia will never back down until they have de-Nazified Kyiv .

Betting is still 1-3 Moscow 10-1 the Nazis .
 
Full scale revolt of the Russian people or an assassination from Putin's inner circle is the only way I see this ending. The US war machine fed by both political parties leaped at the chance to enter the proxy war and they won't stop.
 
The encouraging of an endless war is the point......Lots of profits for Lockheed-Martin, Raytheon, and the rest of the warfare/welfare mothers.

That appears reasonable as it just continues US shadow Government policy for the last few decades .

Am not convinced the same applies for Moscow . Their paradigm is different and rests on short term limitless reserves of key natural resources .
 
An excellent post!

Another aspect of Ukraine is the presence of "interpenetrated peoples" -- a large minority of Ukrainian citizens identify -- or did -- with Russia. (I lived there [Kharkov, as it then was] for a few months in the mid-1980s and saw this with my own eyes).

Wherever you have two (or more) tribes mixed together, you have the ever-present possibility of bloody conflict. (The idiot Left slogan, "Diversity Is Strength!" could have come right out of 1984, along with "War Is Peace!")

I know what I'm going to say next will anger a lot of good people -- but if Trump had any substance to him, he would consult with the people who really see what's happening -- and there are people on both the Left and the Right who don't buy into the War Party's narrative -- and put forward a proposal to end the war.

However, this would involve the possibility of Ukraine losing some territory (Crimea, which was given to Ukraine by Krushchev in 1954; and which is also critical for the Russians, since their main Black Sea naval base is there). And it would be a good move to propose a UN-supervised referendum in eastern Ukraine (Donetsk and Luhansk).

Russia could be offered guarantees that Ukraine would not become part of NATO.

However, our leaders think Putin can be defeated, and humiliated, and will then overthrown by people less awful than him. In fact, military defeat is likely to bring to power someone far worse than Putin, just as Germany's military defeat in WWI eventually brought to power someone far worse than the Kaiser.

So there is a real possibility we will sleepwalk into WWIII.

A nuclear war may produce a lot of radioactive fallout.
[ Nuclear fallout - Wikipedia ] If that happens, you'll want to stay inside your house for a month or two.

But you'll probably still get some nasties into your system. After Chernobyl, cases of thyroid cancer increased in the areas where the ash from the burning plant came down, mainly among children.

So ... better buy a couple of bottles of potassium iodide, to crowd out the radioactive Iodine-131 isotope from your thyroid if things go that way. Iodine-131 has a half-life of about 8 days, so you won't have to be on the potassium iodide long. On the other hand, Strontium-90 and Cesium-137 will be around for a lot longer -- their half-lives are about 29 and 30 years, respectively.

Of course, all this seems crazy. Surely our leaders won't stumble into a real war?

I had an acquaintance, now deceased, who had been a young man working in the City, in London in 1939. When tensions started to rise with Germany, he and his friends joined their equivalent of the National Guard. But, he told, me no one believed that war would come because, surely, after the horrors of WWI ... the Germans wouldn't do it all ... over ... again.
 
This OP is not about “sanctions” — which will not end Russia’s invasion of Ukraine — but about diplomatic / military realities of the war itself.

The possibilities for a neutral Ukraine disappeared in 2014 and chances for a diplomatic settlement ended with Putin’s bloody February 2022 invasion. That invasion poisoned relations between Ukrainians and Russians … for generations,

The escalating U.S. shipment of arms to Ukraine to defend itself and “liberate all its sovereign territory” masks a number of hard questions. Increasing casualties and exhaustion of both sides — without significant result on the battlefield — may soon re-open new opportunities for diplomacy.

In my opinion, leading responsible political elements in the U.S. must now begin to recognize the exceptional status of Crimea and raise the possibility of an internationally supervised referendum there. In short, they should raise the issue of the “right to self-determination” for Crimea.

Such a “realistic” — don’t laugh just yet — and far-sighted diplomatic proposal, along with continuing military and economic support to Ukraine, could offer hope of an eventual exit from “endless war.”

Its real and immediate purpose and value, assuming exhaustion on all sides settles in, would be to undercut the Russian people’s support for Putin’s invasion and his fascistic campaign to exterminate Ukrainian national sovereignty altogether. Putin’s argument that the Russian state’s very existence is threatened by Ukrainian national self-defense (backed by the West) would be weakened tremendously if such a diplomatic theme were raised by the Biden Administration … at the same time as it continues (or even carefully escalates) arms shipments.

It would also help to unify our own public in the U.S., rightly suspicious of more “endless war” adventurism. It would weaken the appeal of MAGA Republican appeasers and pro-Putin apologists. It would also be in sync with past international law and practice in resolving such complex historic problems. Of course it would disrupt the hopes of certain Western money interests who eye developing pipelines and oil resources under the Black Sea. The neo-con / neo-liberal “maximalists” in the Western community — who really are determined to force the break up the Russian state — will oppose such a diplomatic proposal strongly.

The overthrow of the corrupt (but fairly elected) Ukrainian government by the “Maidan Revolution” in 2014 was followed by a rushed, flawed but genuinely popular Crimean referendum to separate from Ukraine and join Russia. Raising tentatively the possibility of an eventual new referendum under UN supervision would also prevent Crimea becoming a destroyed & depopulated battlefield like much of Donbas, and give time for saner emotions to emerge, while allowing an exhausted Ukraine to concentrate on rebuilding itself, as it must.

Can Putin’s invasion of Ukraine be stopped … without encouraging an “Endless War” there?​


Not if U.S. billionaires get their way. The United States' twenty-year war in Afghanistan was much too short to please U.S. billionaires and the Defense Industry.

The billionaires' lobbyists (bagmen) are working tirelessly distributing cash payoffs to their congressional stooges in both parties to encourage U.S. actions to prolong Russia's attacks on the Ukraine.

Another twenty years of war, even without the U.S. military's participation would be quite profitable, even if the only contribution from the U.S. government was providing war materials and equipment.

The billionaires and Defense Industry leaders feel strongly that the risk of triggering a nuclear war is well worth the potential profits.



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