CDZ Borderline Stable 4: Russia Ukraine- US overthrow?

Andylusion

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Jan 23, 2014
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Borderline Stable

PressTV-US orchestrated overthrow in Ukraine

The US has been orchestrating this overthrow in the Ukraine for quite some time. And you have an individual, you know, the founder of eBay; you’ve got Pierre Omidyar who has invested money alongside George Soros. So, this is a scenario that has been played out here for several years in creating what they call an uprising that has been fabricated by the West.​

All over the internet and in some media outlets, we've heard that the US overthrew the government of the Ukraine.

So let's review what has happened.

BBC News - Ukraine crisis Timeline

Short history..... 1991 Ukraine votes for independence, and has their first president.

2004, Viktor Yanukovych, a pro-Russian candidate, won the vote, but after wide spread claims of vote-rigging, the Orange revolution swept the country, and a new vote was cast, in which Yanukovych lost to Yushchenko.

Yanukovych challenges the results..... and when that fails, resigns.

Fast forward to 2010. Viktor Yanukovych wins the election, on a platform of more trade with the EU. Keep in mind prior to that, Ukraine had gradually been moving toward more free-trade.

2013 Nov 21.... After three years of working toward a trade agreement with the EU, Yanukovych's government completely abandons the EU trade treaty, and in a complete reversal, announces a move toward closer trade with Russia. With absolutely no warning, and no prior indications, the policy position that had been worked for over the prior 5 years, was completely reversed.

2013 Nov 22... protest start in Kiev.

2013 Nov 24th... 100,000 protestors in Kiev.

2013 Dec 1st.... 800,000 protestors in Kiev.

2013 Dec 13th... Putin and Yanukovych shake hands publicly announcing an agreement on gas.

2014 Late Janurary.... The prime minister resigns. Protesters take over city hall.

2014 Late February, Yanukovych disappears, later ends up in Russia.

Shortly thereafter, "unknown" troops show up at the Crimea airport, and Pro-Russian militants take over the Crimean capital, and Russia passes a law to absorb Crimea.

Today Pro-Russian forces are still fighting in lower Ukraine.

Motivations

There's a couple of motivations. Russia and the Ukraine have a love / hate relationship that spans a thousand years. However the primary movers were the Natural Gas fight. Russia has sold gas to the Ukraine at a subsidized price. The cost was roughly 1/4th of what it has been in the US.

However, as much as the public of the Ukraine benefited from cheap gas, it also led the public to think Russia was pulling strings on the Ukraine government. Which from the December 13th deal with Yanukovych shaking hands with Putin, validated the Ukrainian public belief that Russia controlled the government.

Which as a side note, people should grasp that when you have someone else pay for your stuff, you unintentionally give them the right to speak into your life. You want free government health care, ok, but now the government going to ban headphones when walking in public, and ban large soda drinks, and pointy kitchen knives. You want government to pay for your stuff, then government going to control your life. That's how this works, just like Russia controlling the Ukraine, in exchange for cheap gas.

So as I said, there have been a number of outlets proclaiming that the US overthrew the Ukraine government. This has been stated in a number of places, and in a recent program, the host said very clearly that "The US has overthrown a Democratically elected government of a sovereign country!".

Now I happen to be a fan of this particular fellow, and up till then he had never made such a drastic claim without clear evidence. So I waited patiently for the 'evidence bomb' and the 'smoking gun' of proof to follow.... but it never came.

So, this individual has a web site with a forum on it, and I promptly logged in to his forum, and posted a question, requesting the evidence of this claim. The answers I got back were utterly bizarre.

We fed cookies to anti-Russian protesters. Sure enough...

nuland-cookies.jpg


Indeed, there is Victoria Nuland handing out cookies...... cookies? Cookies. That's how we overthrew a democratically elected government? With cookies? Why haven't we shipped cookies to Cuba by now? If only Reagan had this brilliant insight, the Soviet Union would have ended a decade sooner.

Because I know for a fact, nothing gets me in the mood for revolution, more than Chocolate Chip cookies. Who knew Toll House was a Russian front company to overthrow America?

The next claim was that Nuland met with opposition leaders just before they came to power. Sure enough....

Nuland and Ukraine leaders.jpg


Nuland met with three of the top guys before they came to power.

The three men who met with Nuland, the guy on the right, is Arseniy Yatsenyuk. Yats, is the leader of the second largest party in Ukraine, People's Front party. He ended up being named the intern Prime Minister of the country.

The guy behind, is Vitali Klitschko, the leader of the UDAR, which which is a faction within the Petro Poroshenko Bloc. (I kind of think of it as the Tea Party is a faction within the Republican bloc) UDAR makes up 30% of the Petro Poroshenko Bloc.

The guy on the left, is Oleh Tyahnybok. He's leader of the ultra-nationalist party Svoboda. Most of the claims that Nuland met with neo-nazi crazy people, revolve around this dude here. Why did we meet with him? Because he was a top opposition leader. Svodoba had a significant representation in the opposition government. When you send an ambassador to meet political leaders, you don't really get to pick and choose who the political leaders are before you get there.

Regardless, the Oleh point is largely mute. Due to the actions of the more militant factions in the Svodoba party, the public vote in the 2014 election, was so low, the party was de-listed from the national vote. If I understand it right, if you have less than 5% of the Parliament seats, your party is de-listed.

But my main point is, we didn't pick these people out. They were already political leaders in the Ukraine government, long before Nuland met with them.

However, if Nuland did in fact meet with them long before they came to power, then that could be a good point. Perhaps we set this whole thing up.

Ukraine says not investigating bugging of U.S. diplomats phone talk Reuters

The problem is, Nuland didn't meet with them back in Sept 2013. She met with them Feb 6th of 2014. Prime Minister Mykola Azarov had already resigned. The Parliament had already annulled the anti-protest laws, and passed amnesty on all the protestors. The writing was on the wall already. Yanukovych's days as president were already numbered, and even Yanukovych himself knew it. That's why he tried to make a deal with opposition leaders.

Now just two full weeks from this meeting, Yanukovych disappears. Just vanishes. He later pops up in Russia.

So that argument really doesn't seem to hold much water in my view.

Yet there is the claim that we installed the current government of the Ukraine, and point to the Nuland Pyatt leaked phone call, in which they claim we hand picked Vats.


So let's look at the tape real quick.

BBC News - Ukraine crisis Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call

So you can read it, or listen to it. Basically the key parts are:

Pyatt: I think we're in play. The Klitschko [Vitaly Klitschko, one of three main opposition leaders] piece is obviously the complicated electron here. Especially the announcement of him as deputy prime minister and you've seen some of my notes on the troubles in the marriage right now so we're trying to get a read really fast on where he is on this stuff. But I think your argument to him, which you'll need to make, I think that's the next phone call you want to set up, is exactly the one you made to Yats [Arseniy Yatseniuk, another opposition leader]. And I'm glad you sort of put him on the spot on where he fits in this scenario. And I'm very glad that he said what he said in response.

Nuland: [Breaks in] I think Yats is the guy who's got the economic experience, the governing experience. He's the... what he needs is Klitsch and Tyahnybok on the outside. He needs to be talking to them four times a week, you know. I just think Klitsch going in... he's going to be at that level working for Yatseniuk, it's just not going to work.

What can we glean from that? One way to read "And I'm glad you sort of put him on the spot on where he fits in this scenario", is that Nuland was "telling him" where he fits in. Another way to read it, is Nuland was asking where he fits in.

I have to tell you, the entire point of these anti-Russian parties, is that they wanted an independent Ukraine, not controlled by Russia. I highly doubt these men who thumbed their nose at Putin, are going to be ordered around by Nuland.

Most of what I see here, comes across to me as our ambassadors giving advise and direction, rather than hand picking who is going to be in power. Not to mention the fact that NONE of the three men referenced in the call ended up President of Ukraine. Instead it was Oleksandr Turchynov, which Nuland nor Pyatt, ever met with.

Apparently we had so much control, that we successfully failed to install any of the three guys talked about in this tape as president.

Finally, the idea that this is a puppet government, fails to grasp that all the politicians in this entire episode, were all well established, democratically elected, parliament and party leaders, years. Several since 2004.

So this claim doesn't work for me either.

Lastly, a claim that we gave funding support, which promoted the protests.

Yes.... sort of....

Does anyone remember during the Soviet Years, we had Radio Free Europe?
Radio Free Europe Radio Liberty

It still exists to this day. Radio broadcasted in the days of the Iron curtain, to the peoples of the Soviet Union.

The US government still has programs similar to Radio Free Europe. To that end. Pyatt pushed a government grant for a small online free-Ukraine TV site, called Hromadske.TV. (roughly translates Public TV)
Hromadske.tv

Why do this? All the major media outlets in the Ukraine are closely controlled by the government.

So the theory goes, we funded Hromadske.TV, which without it the protests would have been crushed or never happened.

Is this true? Well, we did supply roughly $50,000 in funding for Hromadske.TV.
ISSUU - Interim Report of HromadskeTV. December 2013 by Andrii Bashtovyi

However, there was more money given in private donations, than in US support. Even then, the original idea for the station was the product of Roman Skrypin, is a Ukraine national, and a journalist who was forced out of his job by government censorship. Moreover, the other founding members of Hromadske.TV, are also Ukrainian Journalists.

Warning... You'll need to translate to English unless you know Ukrainian.

Even so, the idea that the lack of this one online TV channel, would have prevented, or ended the protest is ridiculous.

100 Watcher
Warning..... Again, you have to use google translate, unless you know Ukrainian.

On December 1st, 2013, the channel sported a total viewership of 100,000 people. On December 1, there was already 800,000 protesting in Kiev. 100,000 viewers of a small internet TV channel, does not overthrow a government. Especially when there are already 800 thousand people marching in the streets.

So none of these arguments make any logical sense to me.

Now I want to stress, none of this means we didn't overthrow the government of the Ukraine. I am not saying "The US did not overthrow the Ukrainian government". I am not saying that.

What I am saying is that the evidence that I have been presented with thus far, simply doesn't make the case, in my opinion. When someone says "we overthrew the government of x", I'm thinking of guns, and major funding, not cookies and few thousand dollars. I'm thinking of Cuba and the bay of pigs. Or the Shah of Iran.

And yet this was the ultimate answer I got from those claiming we overthrew Ukraine... "We did it before".

And that's true. We did. In the past, we have done that, and that reputation remains.

Read the book Guests of the Ayatollah.
Guests of the Ayatollah The Iran Hostage Crisis The First Battle in America s War with Militant Islam Mark Bowden Amazon.com Books

Read the account of the students who stormed the US embassy and held the people hostage. They believed that the US intended to bring back the Shah. When talking to the hostages, and being told the US had accepted the Ayatollah government, and had no intention of overthrowing them, the students responded "But you did it before".

Which goes back to what I said in the Net Insanity post: reputation reputation reputation. This is exactly why we should carefully consider any action, in the light of long term consequences. Your reputation as an individual will come back decades later. You people that are young, get a clue... you do something "in the moment", and that "moment" will follow you around, some of you until you die. You are going to get blamed for something you had nothing to do with, and when you ask why your being fingered, people will say "you did it before".

But are we not backing the new government in the Ukraine?

Yes absolutely. And a number of these online media sites have stated as much "The US-backed Coup" or "The US-backed overthrow of the Ukraine government", or "US Supported Ouster of the Ukraine President".

The problem is with a specific definition of "Backed" and "Supported".

Disclaimer: I am not a sports fan. I do not watch sports, listen to sports, or have a single article of sports memorabilia.
I live here in Ohio, and the OSU Football team just won the championship. Did the people of Ohio "back" the OSU football team? Yes. Did the people of Ohio "support the overthrow of the Oregon Ducks"? Yes.

Haven't seen a fan yet, storm the field and sack the quarterback. The fans supported. That doesn't mean they caused the victory. The players did that.

From all the evidence I've seen thus far, there is no evidence we overthrew the government of the Ukraine. $50,000 and some cookies, plus a photo op, doesn't overthrow a government. Some tiny public TV channel with a 100,000 viewers, doesn't overthrow a government.

And honestly, I think some of you greatly over estimate the magical powers of the Federal Government. This is the same Federal Government that can't get a web site to work, 4 full years after funding was passed.

When you look at the Shah of Iran, or the Bay of Pigs, or any of the other covert operations the government has conducted in the past, the lead up to those operations was YEARS.

The protest of the government completely reversing 5 years of work on the EU trade, started in 24 hours.

EuroMaidan rallies in Ukraine - Nov. 21-23 coverage

Some claim that several hundred people were already protesting by the night of Nov 21st 2013, the very day the EU treaty was canned.

Do you really think that CIA, with all the media in the world, could convince 100,000 people to protest in 48-hours? Or 800,000 to protest in a week?

I think some people put far too much faith in the CIA, or any part of the government for that matter.

Now again... it still is possible that we had something to do with it, but certainly from the evidence I've seen thus far.... Not convinced.
 
It is quite clear the Obama administration had something do with the overthrow of the elected government of Ukraine and the installation of a Nazi anti-Russian regime currently in Kiev.

They blamed pro Russian forces for the shoot down of a jetliner, without ever offering any proof. Some reports indicate it was shot down by Obama's friends in Kiev...in a false flag effort. They have also claimed Russian troops and tanks have invaded Ukraine, without offering any proof.

They have imposed sanctions on Russia, which some consider an act of war. Now BO has indicated he will send armaments to Ukraine, if Russia does not do what he wants. Certainly an act of war.

Seems to point to an effort to involve America in another war...but the American people are asleep as usual.
 
It is quite clear the Obama administration had something do with the overthrow of the elected government of Ukraine and the installation of a Nazi anti-Russian regime currently in Kiev.

They blamed pro Russian forces for the shoot down of a jetliner, without ever offering any proof. Some reports indicate it was shot down by Obama's friends in Kiev...in a false flag effort. They have also claimed Russian troops and tanks have invaded Ukraine, without offering any proof.

They have imposed sanctions on Russia, which some consider an act of war. Now BO has indicated he will send armaments to Ukraine, if Russia does not do what he wants. Certainly an act of war.

Seems to point to an effort to involve America in another war...but the American people are asleep as usual.

the installation of a Nazi anti-Russian regime currently in Kiev.

Yeah, Nazis are the worst!
What are the 5 biggest differences between Nazis and Commies?
 
It is quite clear the Obama administration had something do with the overthrow of the elected government of Ukraine and the installation of a Nazi anti-Russian regime currently in Kiev.

They blamed pro Russian forces for the shoot down of a jetliner, without ever offering any proof. Some reports indicate it was shot down by Obama's friends in Kiev...in a false flag effort. They have also claimed Russian troops and tanks have invaded Ukraine, without offering any proof.

They have imposed sanctions on Russia, which some consider an act of war. Now BO has indicated he will send armaments to Ukraine, if Russia does not do what he wants. Certainly an act of war.

Seems to point to an effort to involve America in another war...but the American people are asleep as usual.
Your comments come straight out of the Moscow propaganda mill.

Almost everything in your post is a lie. The regime that came to power was not the nationalist, or as you call them Nazi's and they are not in control in Kiev. They make up a very small percentage of the population and an even smaller percentage of persons in the government. They are tolerated because they make up a large percentage of volunteer militia members who fight on the front lines. The volunteers are far more nationalist than Nazi.

Plenty of proof has been provided that the commercial jet was shot down by Russian or Russian supported troops with a Russian supplied anti aircraft missile. The Best evidence includes recordings of rebels discussing the incident with Russian intelligence officials in Moscow, comments admitting involvement on social media, tracking photographs of the BUK being transported from Russia to Ukraine and back to Russia, an admitting of a BUK under rebel control of a BUK by a rebel commander, and more.

Obama has steadfastly been opposed to supplying Ukraine with weapons. He has opposed the suggestions of Republican leaders like Graham and McCain and stated on numerous occasions that the war in Ukraine can not be solved with weapons and must have a political solution. It is those Republican leaders and their supporters who are trying to drag us into a war in Ukraine.
 
It is quite clear the Obama administration had something do with the overthrow of the elected government of Ukraine and the installation of a Nazi anti-Russian regime currently in Kiev.

They blamed pro Russian forces for the shoot down of a jetliner, without ever offering any proof. Some reports indicate it was shot down by Obama's friends in Kiev...in a false flag effort. They have also claimed Russian troops and tanks have invaded Ukraine, without offering any proof.

They have imposed sanctions on Russia, which some consider an act of war. Now BO has indicated he will send armaments to Ukraine, if Russia does not do what he wants. Certainly an act of war.

Seems to point to an effort to involve America in another war...but the American people are asleep as usual.
Your comments come straight out of the Moscow propaganda mill.

Almost everything in your post is a lie. The regime that came to power was not the nationalist, or as you call them Nazi's and they are not in control in Kiev. They make up a very small percentage of the population and an even smaller percentage of persons in the government. They are tolerated because they make up a large percentage of volunteer militia members who fight on the front lines. The volunteers are far more nationalist than Nazi.

Plenty of proof has been provided that the commercial jet was shot down by Russian or Russian supported troops with a Russian supplied anti aircraft missile. The Best evidence includes recordings of rebels discussing the incident with Russian intelligence officials in Moscow, comments admitting involvement on social media, tracking photographs of the BUK being transported from Russia to Ukraine and back to Russia, an admitting of a BUK under rebel control of a BUK by a rebel commander, and more.

Obama has steadfastly been opposed to supplying Ukraine with weapons. He has opposed the suggestions of Republican leaders like Graham and McCain and stated on numerous occasions that the war in Ukraine can not be solved with weapons and must have a political solution. It is those Republican leaders and their supporters who are trying to drag us into a war in Ukraine.
Your post indicates you are not informed and is common to an American statist, propagandized by the state run media.

Get informed. These links might help, but I have my doubts.
  1. How Neocon Strategy in Ukraine Has Backfired for Americans Other ...
    Jan 27, 2015 ... Here is the broad story as I now see it. Prior to the coup d'etat in Ukraine, aided and abetted by the neocon expansionist strategies being ...

  2. Foreign Fighters in Ukraine? You Bet! – LewRockwell.com
    Jan 23, 2015 ... US-backed president of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko, was among the elitesgathering in Davos, Switzerland this week to attend the 2015 World ...

  3. Ukraine Heating Up – LewRockwell.com
    Jan 25, 2015 ... Poroshenko has been mobilizing Ukraine. “Under a decision by the NationalSecurity and Defense Council of December 20, 2014, a fourth ...

  4. The MSM Narrative on the Ukraine – LewRockwell.com
    2 days ago ... The narrative regarding Ukraine is repeated, counter to all facts – or in the face of lack of facts. I know I am not breaking news here; however I ...
  1. U.S. Escalation in Ukraine Is Illegitimate and Will Make Matters ...
    Jan 30, 2015 ... Steven Pifer, a senior fellow at Brookings, writes “The West, including the United States, needs to get serious about assisting Ukraine if it does ...
 
It is quite clear the Obama administration had something do with the overthrow of the elected government of Ukraine and the installation of a Nazi anti-Russian regime currently in Kiev.

They blamed pro Russian forces for the shoot down of a jetliner, without ever offering any proof. Some reports indicate it was shot down by Obama's friends in Kiev...in a false flag effort. They have also claimed Russian troops and tanks have invaded Ukraine, without offering any proof.

They have imposed sanctions on Russia, which some consider an act of war. Now BO has indicated he will send armaments to Ukraine, if Russia does not do what he wants. Certainly an act of war.

Seems to point to an effort to involve America in another war...but the American people are asleep as usual.
Your comments come straight out of the Moscow propaganda mill.

Almost everything in your post is a lie. The regime that came to power was not the nationalist, or as you call them Nazi's and they are not in control in Kiev. They make up a very small percentage of the population and an even smaller percentage of persons in the government. They are tolerated because they make up a large percentage of volunteer militia members who fight on the front lines. The volunteers are far more nationalist than Nazi.

Plenty of proof has been provided that the commercial jet was shot down by Russian or Russian supported troops with a Russian supplied anti aircraft missile. The Best evidence includes recordings of rebels discussing the incident with Russian intelligence officials in Moscow, comments admitting involvement on social media, tracking photographs of the BUK being transported from Russia to Ukraine and back to Russia, an admitting of a BUK under rebel control of a BUK by a rebel commander, and more.

Obama has steadfastly been opposed to supplying Ukraine with weapons. He has opposed the suggestions of Republican leaders like Graham and McCain and stated on numerous occasions that the war in Ukraine can not be solved with weapons and must have a political solution. It is those Republican leaders and their supporters who are trying to drag us into a war in Ukraine.
Your post indicates you are not informed and is common to an American statist, propagandized by the state run media.

Get informed. These links might help, but I have my doubts.
  1. How Neocon Strategy in Ukraine Has Backfired for Americans Other ...
    Jan 27, 2015 ... Here is the broad story as I now see it. Prior to the coup d'etat in Ukraine, aided and abetted by the neocon expansionist strategies being ...

  2. Foreign Fighters in Ukraine? You Bet! – LewRockwell.com
    Jan 23, 2015 ... US-backed president of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko, was among the elitesgathering in Davos, Switzerland this week to attend the 2015 World ...

  3. Ukraine Heating Up – LewRockwell.com
    Jan 25, 2015 ... Poroshenko has been mobilizing Ukraine. “Under a decision by the NationalSecurity and Defense Council of December 20, 2014, a fourth ...

  4. The MSM Narrative on the Ukraine – LewRockwell.com
    2 days ago ... The narrative regarding Ukraine is repeated, counter to all facts – or in the face of lack of facts. I know I am not breaking news here; however I ...
  1. U.S. Escalation in Ukraine Is Illegitimate and Will Make Matters ...
    Jan 30, 2015 ... Steven Pifer, a senior fellow at Brookings, writes “The West, including the United States, needs to get serious about assisting Ukraine if it does ...

You never explained why Nazis are worse than Commies. Or even if they're different.
What are the 5 biggest differences between Nazis and Commies?
 
It is quite clear the Obama administration had something do with the overthrow of the elected government of Ukraine and the installation of a Nazi anti-Russian regime currently in Kiev.

They blamed pro Russian forces for the shoot down of a jetliner, without ever offering any proof. Some reports indicate it was shot down by Obama's friends in Kiev...in a false flag effort. They have also claimed Russian troops and tanks have invaded Ukraine, without offering any proof.

They have imposed sanctions on Russia, which some consider an act of war. Now BO has indicated he will send armaments to Ukraine, if Russia does not do what he wants. Certainly an act of war.

Seems to point to an effort to involve America in another war...but the American people are asleep as usual.
Your comments come straight out of the Moscow propaganda mill.

Almost everything in your post is a lie. The regime that came to power was not the nationalist, or as you call them Nazi's and they are not in control in Kiev. They make up a very small percentage of the population and an even smaller percentage of persons in the government. They are tolerated because they make up a large percentage of volunteer militia members who fight on the front lines. The volunteers are far more nationalist than Nazi.

Plenty of proof has been provided that the commercial jet was shot down by Russian or Russian supported troops with a Russian supplied anti aircraft missile. The Best evidence includes recordings of rebels discussing the incident with Russian intelligence officials in Moscow, comments admitting involvement on social media, tracking photographs of the BUK being transported from Russia to Ukraine and back to Russia, an admitting of a BUK under rebel control of a BUK by a rebel commander, and more.

Obama has steadfastly been opposed to supplying Ukraine with weapons. He has opposed the suggestions of Republican leaders like Graham and McCain and stated on numerous occasions that the war in Ukraine can not be solved with weapons and must have a political solution. It is those Republican leaders and their supporters who are trying to drag us into a war in Ukraine.
Your post indicates you are not informed and is common to an American statist, propagandized by the state run media.

Get informed. These links might help, but I have my doubts.
  1. How Neocon Strategy in Ukraine Has Backfired for Americans Other...
    Jan 27, 2015... Here is the broad story as I now see it. Prior to the coup d'etat in Ukraine, aided and abetted by the neocon expansionist strategies being ...

  2. Foreign Fighters in Ukraine? You Bet! – LewRockwell.com
    Jan 23, 2015... US-backed president of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko, was among the elitesgathering in Davos, Switzerland this week to attend the 2015 World ...

  3. Ukraine Heating Up – LewRockwell.com
    Jan 25, 2015... Poroshenko has been mobilizing Ukraine. “Under a decision by the NationalSecurity and Defense Council of December 20, 2014, a fourth ...

  4. The MSM Narrative on the Ukraine – LewRockwell.com
    2 days ago... The narrative regarding Ukraine is repeated, counter to all facts – or in the face of lack of facts. I know I am not breaking news here; however I ...
  1. U.S. Escalation in Ukraine Is Illegitimate and Will Make Matters...
    Jan 30, 2015... Steven Pifer, a senior fellow at Brookings, writes “The West, including the United States, needs to get serious about assisting Ukraine if it does ...

I find it rather amusing that someone would even attempt to claim Russia is not involved in the ongoing attempt to overthrow of Ukraine.

But nevertheless, I did read through all the links you have posted, and realized that while claiming there was no evidence to support Russian involvement, the poster himself provided no evidence at all for any of the claims he himself made.

That leads me to a couple of questions....

How do you explain the photos coming out of South East Ukraine of tanks, since you claim there is no evidence of such?
Russian tanks and troops crossing Ukraine border says NATO commander Daily Mail Online

Dozens of photos of tanks rolling right down the main roads of Donetsk?

How about this:
Ukrainian Evidence of Russian Involvement in East - NBC News

Photos of Russian special forces, which are cross identified with pictures of Russian troops attacking Georgia in 2008, and photos of troops in Donetsk and south east Ukraine.

Same people, identified in three separate situations, two of which are well established Russian forces. The third and most recent, being Ukraine.... but Russia is not involved?

Based on what logic do you make this claim?
 
It is quite clear the Obama administration had something do with the overthrow of the elected government of Ukraine and the installation of a Nazi anti-Russian regime currently in Kiev.

They blamed pro Russian forces for the shoot down of a jetliner, without ever offering any proof. Some reports indicate it was shot down by Obama's friends in Kiev...in a false flag effort. They have also claimed Russian troops and tanks have invaded Ukraine, without offering any proof.

They have imposed sanctions on Russia, which some consider an act of war. Now BO has indicated he will send armaments to Ukraine, if Russia does not do what he wants. Certainly an act of war.

Seems to point to an effort to involve America in another war...but the American people are asleep as usual.
Your comments come straight out of the Moscow propaganda mill.

Almost everything in your post is a lie. The regime that came to power was not the nationalist, or as you call them Nazi's and they are not in control in Kiev. They make up a very small percentage of the population and an even smaller percentage of persons in the government. They are tolerated because they make up a large percentage of volunteer militia members who fight on the front lines. The volunteers are far more nationalist than Nazi.

Plenty of proof has been provided that the commercial jet was shot down by Russian or Russian supported troops with a Russian supplied anti aircraft missile. The Best evidence includes recordings of rebels discussing the incident with Russian intelligence officials in Moscow, comments admitting involvement on social media, tracking photographs of the BUK being transported from Russia to Ukraine and back to Russia, an admitting of a BUK under rebel control of a BUK by a rebel commander, and more.

Obama has steadfastly been opposed to supplying Ukraine with weapons. He has opposed the suggestions of Republican leaders like Graham and McCain and stated on numerous occasions that the war in Ukraine can not be solved with weapons and must have a political solution. It is those Republican leaders and their supporters who are trying to drag us into a war in Ukraine.
Your post indicates you are not informed and is common to an American statist, propagandized by the state run media.

Get informed. These links might help, but I have my doubts.
  1. How Neocon Strategy in Ukraine Has Backfired for Americans Other...
    Jan 27, 2015... Here is the broad story as I now see it. Prior to the coup d'etat in Ukraine, aided and abetted by the neocon expansionist strategies being ...

  2. Foreign Fighters in Ukraine? You Bet! – LewRockwell.com
    Jan 23, 2015... US-backed president of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko, was among the elitesgathering in Davos, Switzerland this week to attend the 2015 World ...

  3. Ukraine Heating Up – LewRockwell.com
    Jan 25, 2015... Poroshenko has been mobilizing Ukraine. “Under a decision by the NationalSecurity and Defense Council of December 20, 2014, a fourth ...

  4. The MSM Narrative on the Ukraine – LewRockwell.com
    2 days ago... The narrative regarding Ukraine is repeated, counter to all facts – or in the face of lack of facts. I know I am not breaking news here; however I ...
  1. U.S. Escalation in Ukraine Is Illegitimate and Will Make Matters...
    Jan 30, 2015... Steven Pifer, a senior fellow at Brookings, writes “The West, including the United States, needs to get serious about assisting Ukraine if it does ...

I find it rather amusing that someone would even attempt to claim Russia is not involved in the ongoing attempt to overthrow of Ukraine.

But nevertheless, I did read through all the links you have posted, and realized that while claiming there was no evidence to support Russian involvement, the poster himself provided no evidence at all for any of the claims he himself made.

That leads me to a couple of questions....

How do you explain the photos coming out of South East Ukraine of tanks, since you claim there is no evidence of such?
Russian tanks and troops crossing Ukraine border says NATO commander Daily Mail Online

Dozens of photos of tanks rolling right down the main roads of Donetsk?

How about this:
Ukrainian Evidence of Russian Involvement in East - NBC News

Photos of Russian special forces, which are cross identified with pictures of Russian troops attacking Georgia in 2008, and photos of troops in Donetsk and south east Ukraine.

Same people, identified in three separate situations, two of which are well established Russian forces. The third and most recent, being Ukraine.... but Russia is not involved?

Based on what logic do you make this claim?

Russian Marines fighting at Donetsk Airport with Marine insignia left on uniform.

ibtimes.com/east-ukraine-war-russian-state-tv-purportedly-shows-russian-troops-inside-donetsk-1788520
 

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