Bible patterns in history: OT vs NT

[emilynghiem]

In a response to a friend in a FB group, where Anarchist Christians argue all war is Antichrist and denounce the rightwing patriotist/nationalist belief in glorifying military, I said the same pattern of Mammon vs God, Antichrist vs Christ Jesus, repeats in our individual lives and relations, and collectively in human cultural and political history. Because we are made in the image of God in the Bible, and will experience the same process symbolized therein. The Bible records both historical patterns, and the universal spiritual stages all humanity goes through to reach maturity by establishing Truth Justice and Peace, as represented collectively by the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Below is the message I posted, copied off FB from the Anarcho Christian group.

I believe this is the general meaning and message in the Bible, universal for any person of any tribal or national lineage, at any stage of life and history. We are all part of a global process of reconciling injustice to establish justice and peace by agreeing on truth to set us free from past suffering and strife. The key to transformation, corrections and recovery is forgiveness. So the meaning of faith in "Christ Jesus" is believing in breaking the cycle of retribution by "Restorative Justice" or living by "Justice and Peace" or "Justice with Mercy" which the leftwing calls "Social Justice" with a focus on cultural inclusion and equity while the rightwing calls this "Equal Justice Under Law" with a focus on universal rule of law everyone must agree and answer to.

============

Sure, this follows the same process as in the Bible. The spirit of Antichrist corrupts the Letter of the Law by the influence of Mammon and material greed for power. After we forgive the past, then we break the cycle of Retributive Justice based on judgment and punishment, and agree to live by the Spirit of the Law where Christ Jesus authority is embodied in people/the church as Restorative Justice, establishing Truth Justice and Peace locally in each relationship where good faith is restored and collectively for all humanity, made one new and perfect/whole in Christ, in the Kingdom of God where God's will and laws are fulfilled.

This same pattern repeats in our local learning curve as individual souls, in historic cultural trends among whole groups or nations, and globally for all humanity. Because we are made in the inage of God, as body mind and spirit, and as male/female energies that seek to restore the original complementary balance in peace, we go through the same process of falling from grace due to corruption, going through a grief process of denial, anger/projection, bargaining, resolution and peace.

So of course, looking at history, or even patterns and stages in our own lives, we will see this same pattern of Antichrist corrupting, abusing and destroying relations, then forgiveness allowing recovery and overcoming problems to correct and heal relations. Christ Jesus means Restorative Justice. Eventual by trial and error, we learn by experience and example to live by that and not the way of death and destruction by Retributive Justice.

Even the Bible teaches the difference by recording the genocidal tribal wars of living by the Letter of the Law in the OT corrupted by man's justice based on greed for power, vs living by the Spirit of the Law in the NT with love of Truth Justice and Peace (collectively the Holy Trinity) which brings Life instead of death. This pattern is universal. The Bible shows this in history, and represents the universal process by which all people learn to embrace and live by Equal Justice Under Law or the Authority of Jesus as Lord of All. All tribes, nations and souls will follow this same pattern until we all reconcile in Christ Jesus to become one church body in the Kingdom of God, agreeing on God's truth in Christ Jesus that God's laws, perfect Justice and will are fulfilled and established on Earth and globally in Heaven.

 

[Moonglow]

Do we need to burn incense while doing this thread so God will hear it?

All people on the right do not glorify the military or your God, nor are they nationalist nor are they haters of minorities one of which was yer God...

 

[rightwinger]

I believe this is the general meaning and message in the Bible, universal for any person of any tribal or national lineage, at any stage of life and history. We are all part of a global process of reconciling injustice to establish justice and peace by agreeing on truth to set us free from past suffering and strife. The key to transformation, corrections and recovery is forgiveness. So the meaning of faith in "Christ Jesus" is believing in breaking the cycle of retribution by "Restorative Justice" or living by "Justice and Peace" or "Justice with Mercy" which the leftwing calls "Social Justice" with a focus on cultural inclusion and equity while the rightwing calls this "Equal Justice Under Law" with a focus on universal rule of law everyone must agree and answer to.

Word Salad

 

[emilynghiem]

I believe this is the general meaning and message in the Bible, universal for any person of any tribal or national lineage, at any stage of life and history. We are all part of a global process of reconciling injustice to establish justice and peace by agreeing on truth to set us free from past suffering and strife. The key to transformation, corrections and recovery is forgiveness. So the meaning of faith in "Christ Jesus" is believing in breaking the cycle of retribution by "Restorative Justice" or living by "Justice and Peace" or "Justice with Mercy" which the leftwing calls "Social Justice" with a focus on cultural inclusion and equity while the rightwing calls this "Equal Justice Under Law" with a focus on universal rule of law everyone must agree and answer to.

Word Salad

Okay rightwinger is this shorter:
The meaning and message in the Bible
is teaching the difference between
* Retributive Justice by abusing the Letter of the Law to cause self destruction, war and death
Vs
* Restorative justice by living by the Spirit of the Laws, by love of Truth Justice and Peace, to heal and restore our humanity, and correct and prevent ills to ensure healthy relationships and better quality of life.

The OT shows "before" Jesus incarnation, the NT represents "after" we receive, understand and adopt the Authority of Christ Jesus or "Restorative Justice" to govern our lives and relations, words and actions, and eventually whole nations and institutions.

 

[Infallible Arbiter]

On a site like this, and everywhere else on the Internet, what the Bible calls "the pattern" wont be elaborated upon correctly, even if the verses are broached on this thread.
So far, unsurprisingly, none have been referenced.
Imagine how unastonished I am by that.

 

[DudleySmith]

Self-defense and defending your family, the weak, and your lands is perfectly acceptable. The Disciples carried swords, and were willing to use them, especially Peter.

 

[emilynghiem]

On a site like this, and everywhere else on the Internet, what the Bible calls "the pattern" wont be elaborated upon correctly, even if the verses are broached on this thread.
So far, unsurprisingly, none have been referenced.
Imagine how unastonished I am by that.

Which pattern are you referencing in quotes?
The general "trinity/tabernacle" pattern?

Every person I've met applies this pattern differently in their life and how they see history.

Of course it will vary, every soul and path in life is unique.

The universal pattern is general.

 

[Infallible Arbiter]

On a site like this, and everywhere else on the Internet, what the Bible calls "the pattern" wont be elaborated upon correctly, even if the verses are broached on this thread.
So far, unsurprisingly, none have been referenced.
Imagine how unastonished I am by that.

Which pattern are you referencing in quotes?
The general "trinity/tabernacle" pattern?

Every person I've met applies this pattern differently in their life and how they see history.

Of course it will vary, every soul and path in life is unique.

The universal pattern is general.

They search for patterns in the Bible, but have no consideration of what the Bible calls "the Pattern".

 

[surada]

Self-defense and defending your family, the weak, and your lands is perfectly acceptable. The Disciples carried swords, and were willing to use them, especially Peter.

Where does it say the disciples carried swords?

The disciples say, “Here are two swords,” Jesus says, “It is enough.”

 

[surada]

Self-defense and defending your family, the weak, and your lands is perfectly acceptable. The Disciples carried swords, and were willing to use them, especially Peter.

Luke 22:38 So they said, "Look, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," He answered.

 

[irosie91]

Luke 22:36
“He said to them, ‘But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.’”

 

[surada]

Luke 22:36
“He said to them, ‘But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.’”

Look at the sequence of the verses.

 

[irosie91]

Look at the sequence of the verses.

unlike you----I read it-----the issue was the storming of the
temple courtyard against the roman shill money changers.
They entered armed in an act of gross sedition that lead to
the Crucifixion-----your sunday school marm did not know.
No jelly beans for you

 

[BreezeWood]

unlike you----I read it-----the issue was the storming of the
temple courtyard against the roman shill money changers.
They entered armed in an act of gross sedition that lead to
the Crucifixion-----your sunday school marm did not know.
No jelly beans for you

that makes no sense at all, who's "they" ... why would it have been gross sedition - and which crucifixion .... where pilate found them innocent, not that one. surly.

- someone is daydreaming ...

 

[irosie91]

that makes no sense at all, who's "they" ... why would it have been gross sedition - and which crucifixion .... where pilate found them innocent, not that one. surly.

- someone is daydreaming ...

"they" Jesus and any of his friends who accompanied him on the attack upon the money changers You could, AT LEAST----read the classic comic or
Cliff's notes

 

[BreezeWood]

"they" Jesus and any of his friends who accompanied him on the attack upon the money changers You could, AT LEAST----read the classic comic or
Cliff's notes

nothing in the atmosphere about it - absolutely absurd, someone needs their jelly beans ... in a hurry.

 

[norwegen]

unlike you----I read it-----the issue was the storming of the
temple courtyard against the roman shill money changers.
They entered armed in an act of gross sedition that lead to
the Crucifixion-----your sunday school marm did not know.
No jelly beans for you

On the contrary, the issue was for Christ's apostles to defend themselves against reprisal from their countrymen who did not want to hear that their messiah was some bucolic young Nazarene, who believed Jesus to be just another transgressor.

And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.” And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.” (Lk 22:35-38)​

Jesus is referring back to the time he commissioned the twelve, and later the seventy-two, to announce in the cities and villages of Galilee the kingdom's imminent arrival (Lk 10:1-20). When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?

In that mission, they encountered very few who were hospitable to them and their message of the kingdom, hence their moving from town to town. They completed that mission without arms or provisions. Jesus is simply advising them that that would no longer be the case this time, as they will begin to encounter Jews who were hostile to Jesus and his message.

This passage makes no reference whatever to Jesus driving out the money changers, he being the only one who was armed, by the way, and with merely a whip, no less.

 

[BreezeWood]

On the contrary, the issue was for Christ's apostles to defend themselves against reprisal from their countrymen who did not want to hear that their messiah was some bucolic young Nazarene, who believed Jesus to be just another transgressor.

And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.” And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.” (Lk 22:35-38)​

Jesus is referring back to the time he commissioned the twelve, and later the seventy-two, to announce in the cities and villages of Galilee the kingdom's imminent arrival (Lk 10:1-20). When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?

In that mission, they encountered very few who were hospitable to them and their message of the kingdom, hence their moving from town to town. They completed that mission without arms or provisions. Jesus is simply advising them that that would no longer be the case this time, as they will begin to encounter Jews who were hostile to Jesus and his message.

This passage makes no reference whatever to Jesus driving out the money changers, he being the only one who was armed, by the way, and with merely a whip, no less.

This passage makes no reference whatever to Jesus driving out the money changers, he being the only one who was armed, by the way, and with merely a whip, no less.

were that true, that would have been more than enough for them to retaliate in kind ... the jews victimized jesus for obviously other matters than the money changers -

All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!” Matthew 27:24-25

... whatever those books lead their readers to conclude.

 

[surada]

unlike you----I read it-----the issue was the storming of the
temple courtyard against the roman shill money changers.
They entered armed in an act of gross sedition that lead to
the Crucifixion-----your sunday school marm did not know.
No jelly beans for you

Who entered armed?

 

[irosie91]

Who entered armed?

ask Luke----in aramaic