Beyond Vietnam: A Time to Break Silence

[harmonica]

In every election the American people voted for what appeared to be the shortest path to peace, and they were deceived every time. That war was total folly (including on the part of the Vietnamese, for that matter). It provoked unforeseen and awful consequences. That is how it is similar to the Iraq debacle. But Vietnam tore the soul of America as Iraq tore only the power and prestige. We were already too desensitized to have much human feeling for the wrong we did.

nothing like Iraq
.....we had every reason to DEFEND Kuwait/etc like France and England went to war for Poland ---we had even MORE reason than France and England-

It should be obvious that "Iraq" in the post referred to the disastrous, illegal invasion under "W".
As for "defending" Kuwait, well, that's another whole thing.

..hahahahahhaqah it wasn't illegal
do you not understand what cease fires are??

 

[Correll]

The Gulf of Tonkin “false flag” excuse for escalation in Vietnam of course occurred under Lyndon Johnson, who also had earlier signed Civil Rights and War on Poverty legislation. He increased our troop presence in Vietnam to half a million. Over all many millions served, and of course the heaviest burden fell disproportionately on black and poor white draftees.

It was crowds shouting “Hey, Hey, LBJ ... How Many Kids Did You Kill Today!” that filled the streets in 1968 — and that perhaps led him not to run for a second term. The arguably hidden forces behind the assassination of JFK may also have played a role in Johnson’s decision to escalate, but of course that is only speculation. In those early days anti-war sentiment was not especially party partisan. Nor was the earlier Southern Civil Rights Movement, which was led by African-Americans themselves, but half-heartedly backed by some Republican and Democratic politicians (outside the South). There were a few prominent Republicans who also opposed the War early on. Humphrey Democrats of course were in favor of continuing the war, as were most Republicans — to the disgust of anti-war protesters.

Another interesting question is whether the Civil Rights Act would have passed at all were it not for Cold War competition with the Soviets. The Jim Crow system was very embarrassing internationally to U.S. rulers in those days. The U.S. looked pretty bad (at least to newly independent African nations) when we claimed to be fighting “for freedom” against the USSR.

The idea that we only did Civil Rights for PR reasons is a slap in the face to every American that consistently voted for politicians, in both parties, committed to equal rights.


And it is a weak real politic rationalization for a policy.


Question. So, MLK was anti-Vietnam War. What was his policy for the Soviet Union?


If not Containment, did he favor Rollback? Or just capitulation?

 

[Dick Foster]

LBJ created the crisis that brought US Troops to Vietnam and set the rules so that Americans could win every battle and still lose the freaking war. When the V.C. was finally defeated after Tet, Walter Cronkite rushed to Vietnam, donned helmet and flak vest for show and pronounced the Tet victory to be a "stalemate". Just when the V.C. was finally defeated, LBJ quit the fight and tearfully told America he would not run for re-election. V.C. general Giap admitted after the war that he was out of soldiers and out of supplies after Tet but that LBJ's chickenshit move gave him some breathing room. Idiot amateur historians today are desperate to blame Nixon for the whole thing. No surprises here.

Actually it started way before LBJ but he did escalate the hell out of it and got a lot of Americans killed including some friends of mine.
Uncle Ho, a nationalist really, approached America for help as far back as Woodrow Wilson. Then he and every francophillian fuck stick president since ignored Ho because they were all too damn busy sucking up to the fucking frog oppressors. Ho went to the commies simply because he had no other choice.
It took Nixon to get us to hell out of that friggin mess and like Trump he said he would and he made good.
Until that draft dodging lying coward of an asshole POS Clinton and then Obummer came along LBJ topped my list of most hated POS excuses for a president. Somehow the democrats always find a way to reach new lows.

It didn't start (in Vietnam) before LBJ's faked Tonkin Gulf Crisis.

Yes it did, Truman, Eisenhower and JFK all had troops in there in ever increasing numbers as advisers and such as the French were getting their asses kicked. Then LBJ inflated the hell out of it and really got the ball rolling.
It's a good damn thing Goldwater wasn't elected and LBJ was or we might have had a war in Vietnam or something.

 

[Dick Foster]

Oh that Nixon....Totally lied to the world about the fake Golf of Tonkin incident, to escalate Vietnam into a hot war.

Oh wait.....

We did, we waited. I was on active duty in 1967 when Nixon was running for the Presidency. He ran on "I have a plan" to end the Vietnam War; it proved to be total bullshit. I was on leave in June of '68 and I voted for the first time in the primary election, I cast my vote for RFK. That night I went to the Civic Auditorium in San Francisco with my college girl friend and we saw Bobby announce his win in the CA Primary, and then he went to LA and the rest is history.

Funny thing I was actually on active duty during the Nixon administration, was in Vietnam as it was winding down and distinctly remember it ending under Nixon.
Your memory seems to be just so much typical leftist hippy bullshit.
In short a typical fucking democratic asshole president got us into it up to our lower lips and a much maligned Republican president got us out of it. That in short is the sum total of it.