Beyond Macaca

[Ramapo]

http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20060911&s=george_allen:afro:

 

[musicman]

http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20060911&s=george_allen:afro:

Couldn't get the link to work...

 

[jillian]

Couldn't get the link to work...

Me either. But this one should work for you.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060911/george_allen

 

[musicman]

Me either. But this one should work for you.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060911/george_allen

Thanks, jillian - much better!

I'm having difficulty accepting, out of hand, that:

A) The Confederate Flag is a racist symbol, and that,

B) Supporting states' rights is a "Neo-Confederate" view. If that's the case, we'll have to retroactively assign that designation to the founding fathers. I think we've got some scare tactics going on here.

 

[jillian]

Thanks, jillian - much better!

I'm having difficulty accepting, out of hand, that:

A) The Confederate Flag is a racist symbol, and that,

B) Supporting states' rights is a "Neo-Confederate" view. If that's the case, we'll have to retroactively assign that designation to the founding fathers. I think we've got some scare tactics going on here.

No prob.

I don't think the Confederate Flag was intended as a racist symbol. But I also think we have to acknowledge that symbols take on different meanings if they become associated with certain things and images. For example, a swastika was not originally a negative symbol at all. It was just one that was co-opted by people who did some really awful things. Don't think I'm assigning a similar meaning to a confederate flag, but we have to understand that that flag connotes racism and slavery to a lot of people -- rightfully or wrongfully -- and whether it was intended to have such meaning or not. The fact that the Confederate Flag has also been co-opted by white supramecist groups doesn't help.

As for the States' Rights thing... well, not really. Under the Articles of Confederation, the States had far more power than the Federal Government. But the Founding Fathers didn't think that was such a good idea and we ended up with a Federal Constitution with became the Supreme Law of the Land.

SUPREMACY CLAUSE - "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding." U.S. Const. art. VI, Paragraph 2

http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/s105.htm

So the States' Rights battle is pretty well over. And whatever remnants of it existed were kinda settled for well and good during the Civil War.

 

[musicman]

Ah - we've been over this ground before, haven't we - LOL!

The Civil War did not negate Amendment X.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

As for the States' Rights thing... well, not really. Under the Articles of Confederation, the States had far more power than the Federal Government. But the Founding Fathers didn't think that was such a good idea and we ended up with a Federal Constitution with became the Supreme Law of the Land..

So, what are you saying, that under the Articles of Confederation, that when there was a conflict between State and Federal Law, State law would or could prevail?

 

[jillian]

So, what are you saying, that under the Articles of Confederation, that when there was a conflict between State and Federal Law, State law would or could prevail?

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/artconf.htm

 

[Gunny]

So, what are you saying, that under the Articles of Confederation, that when there was a conflict between State and Federal Law, State law would or could prevail?

The simple fact is, in 1860, states had EVERY right to seceed from an "experiment" they voluntarily entered. The Constitution did not preclude it.

QUite simply, the US government invaded a declared, sovereign nation and annexed it by force.

 

[jillian]

Ah - we've been over this ground before, haven't we - LOL!

The Civil War did not negate Amendment X.

LOL! Yeah... I think we have

And you're right. It didn't negate the 10th, but... it kind of limited the way one would construe the powers that the states have delegated to them, no?

 

[musicman]

LOL! Yeah... I think we have

And you're right. It didn't negate the 10th, but... it kind of limited the way one would construe the powers that the states have delegated to them, no?

Not really, no. The wording of the Amendment is quite clear. What we call "states' rights" is the basis of representative government, as opposed to central government tyranny. The powers that the states have delegated to them encompass ANYTHING NOT SPECIFICALLY GRANTED TO THE FEDS. Couldn't be any clearer if it was a button-hook in the well water.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/artconf.htm

Your link doesnt support your posistion. The ARticles of Confederation, as well as the current Constitution, both gave the federal govt authority over the states if a conflict arose, and the federal govt was granted the power already in the US Constitution.

It would be futile to have a federal govt if any state, at any time could simply over ride any area the feds have authority.

ANd as for you comment Gunny, I used to agree with your point, until I came unto the understanding that if every time a state had a major disagreement with the feds, they would simply secede, then soon their would be no USA. Also, it was explained to me that by joining the union, they were making a commitment that they couldnt just back out on. I would actually like to see any legal documents regarding responsabilities states accepted upon joining the union.

 

[JeffWartman]

State law did not trump federal law in the Articles of Confederation.

Section 13:

"Every State shall abide by the determination of the United States in Congress assembled, on all questions which by this confederation are submitted to them. And the Articles of this Confederation shall be inviolably observed by every State, and the Union shall be perpetual; nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made in any of them; unless such alteration be agreed to in a Congress of the United States, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every State. "

 

[sitarro]

Wasn't it the power of the state of Louisiana and her idiot Governor that prevented the Federal Government from coming to the rescue after the collapse of the levees in New Orleans?

 

[William Joyce]

Folks, folks, folks.

It isn't about "states' rights", contrary to what some well-intentioned conservatives might say.

It's about white people.

White people, and their right to their culture, their heritage, and their destiny.

Do they have it?

Currently, those for it number few. But as our numbers drop, and as the nation moves harder against our people through open immigration, affirmative action and the rest, the few are becoming more. I could debate back and forth all day long about states' rights v. federal rights, and it might generate interesting discussion. But it would all be beside the point. Once you come around to seeing that that debate --- like so many others we have --- is really at the core about racial conflict, then you'll have graduated from Hannityland.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Folks, folks, folks.

It isn't about "states' rights", contrary to what some well-intentioned conservatives might say.

It's about white people.

White people, and their right to their culture, their heritage, and their destiny.

Do they have it?

Currently, those for it number few. But as our numbers drop, and as the nation moves harder against our people through open immigration, affirmative action and the rest, the few are becoming more. I could debate back and forth all day long about states' rights v. federal rights, and it might generate interesting discussion. But it would all be beside the point. Once you come around to seeing that that debate --- like so many others we have --- is really at the core about racial conflict, then you'll have graduated from Hannityland.

You want an all white culture. Move to Scandanavia. You have NO FUCKING right to claim this land as "white mans" and I, along with toooo many others will never allow your racist, vile and evil values to come into influence in any measurable means anymore in this LAND OF THE FREE (for ALL, not just whites).

Oh, by the way, my wife is dark skinned, and we adopted a black boy. Eat that shit for a while, hahahhahahhahah