Ask the Buddhist!

[no1tovote4]

Next question: how do Buddhists view Christ, and specifically His claims to be the only way to God? (see John 14:6)

Buddhists see Christ as a different Path that may lead one to the same goal. As I said previously Buddhism celebrates the fact that you have found a path.

One of my favorite quotes of the Buddha (paraphrased) is "Just because somebody is on a different Path, does not necessarily mean that they are lost."

It is one of the twelve Principals of Buddhism never to attempt to move one from a Path once it has been taken. Only the person can choose to take a different Path.

 

[CivilLiberty]

So if one gets something they desire (nirvana) by not desiring it, then wouldn't all non-Buddhists reach nirvana, since they aren't actively seeking it?

I believe that anyone can "achieve nirvana" without actively seeking it.

But not seeking it does not mean one is 'reacching it".

So Zen teaches that there is only one path (that path being Zen)? Interesting. Sounds suspiciously like Christian claims to be the only way.

No, Zen does not teach that - this is one guy's perspective, and I disagree. Or he may have just *meant* something else... And I missed that part or I might have commented on it...

I was mainly linking for his description of tao and nirvana.

A

 

[Zhukov]

"The Dalai Lamas are believed to be manifestations of Avalokitesvara, the Bodhisattva (Buddha) of Compassion, who chose to reincarnate to serve the people."

And is unique to Tibetan buddhism.

So only Tibetan buddhists believe he is the reincarnation of Buddha?

Buddhism has no "goals". Thus, there is no "failure".

I thought the goal was to achieve material detachment from the world and achieve the oblivion of nirvana instead of being endlessly doomed to re-live life over and over again.

How is he "not" following his own teachings?

He was unable to detach himself from his feelings for people in this world, and because of his desire to help is reincarnated over and over again. Everyone else is supposed to try and get out of the cycle of re-incarnation, which he himself has refused to do.

 

[CivilLiberty]

So only Tibetan buddhists believe he is the reincarnation of Buddha?

Not of "Buddha", a reincarnation of the first Dalai Lhama

I thought the goal was to achieve material detachment from the world and achieve the oblivion of nirvana instead of being endlessly doomed to re-live life over and over again.

Some sects, maybe. But in general, there is no goal, because a goal acknowledges the physical world. The goal is to have no goals, so there for it is not a goal. the "doomed to relive life over and over" thing is more attributable to Hinduism. I don't relate to is, and it's not spoken of in any Zen teaching's I've read.

He was unable to detach himself from his feelings for people in this world, and because of his desire to help is reincarnated over and over again. Everyone else is supposed to try and get out of the cycle of re-incarnation, which he himself has refused to do.

Again, this is unique to Tibetan Buddhism, not buddhism in general.

Kind of how Catholics place emphasis on the Virgin Mary, and the Pope. Evangelicals place it more on the words of Christ.


A

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Buddhists see Christ as a different Path that may lead one to the same goal. As I said previously Buddhism celebrates the fact that you have found a path.

One of my favorite quotes of the Buddha (paraphrased) is "Just because somebody is on a different Path, does not necessarily mean that they are lost."

It is one of the twelve Principals of Buddhism never to attempt to move one from a Path once it has been taken. Only the person can choose to take a different Path.

Isn't the Buddhist ideal for one to be passively indifferent to everything? How can they even "celebrate"? Apparently the big ambition of Buddhism is to achieve the unconscious repose of Nirvana. To me this seems so negative and morbid, so blah and so nothing.

By contrast, Jesus promotes the positive pursuit of Life in all its abundance. He promotes Love and helping others in this world. Heaven is a reward of eternal happiness. I cannot see a Buddhist and a Christian following the same "path" to the same ultimate end - although their paths may cross at some point.

 

[CivilLiberty]

Isn't the Buddhist ideal for one to be passively indifferent to everything? How can they even "celebrate"? .

Not even. Buddhists are not 'passively indifferent'.

Buddhist joke:

"Gee, them christians have christmas, easter - jews have Hannukah, Rosh Hashona and all sorts of holidays - there aren't any buddhist holidays - guess we missed the boat!"

Point of the joke: For a buddhist, *every* day is a holiday.


A

 

[CivilLiberty]

I cannot see a Buddhist and a Christian following the same "path" to the same ultimate end - although their paths may cross at some point.

No one is suggesting they are the same path, we've pointed out in this threat that they are different paths.

Regardless, and like it or not, we *all* end up at the *same* ultimate end.


A

 

[no1tovote4]

Isn't the Buddhist ideal for one to be passively indifferent to everything? How can they even "celebrate"? Apparently the big ambition of Buddhism is to achieve the unconscious repose of Nirvana. To me this seems so negative and morbid, so blah and so nothing.

By contrast, Jesus promotes the positive pursuit of Life in all its abundance. He promotes Love and helping others in this world. Heaven is a reward of eternal happiness. I cannot see a Buddhist and a Christian following the same "path" to the same ultimate end - although their paths may cross at some point.

Buddhism does not teach one to be indifferent or uncaring. Buddhism teaches compassion and respect for all life, including your own. Buddhism teaches that right thought reaches into right action. One studies the Dharma and the Path to reach something which is likely unattainable in this lifetime.

We could say that Jesus teaches the denial of self-serving action as well as Buddha, but Buddhism isn't teaching you to be uncaring or indifferent. Nirvana is also eternal happiness, it is described exactly as that. Heaven is a place where one is with God, it may be the different description for the exact same thing.

At this link they attempt to better describe what Nirvana is:

nirvana[nErvA´nu] Pronunciation Key, in Buddhism, Jainism, and Hinduism, a state of supreme liberation and bliss, contrasted to samsara or bondage in the repeating cycle of death and rebirth. The word in Sanskrit refers to the going out of a flame once its fuel has been consumed; it thus suggests both the end of suffering and the cessation of desires that perpetuate bondage.


http://reference.allrefer.com/encyclopedia/N/nirvana.html


While you are on that Path, it is not for me to deny you your Path.

 

[no1tovote4]

So only Tibetan buddhists believe he is the reincarnation of Buddha?

They do not believe that he is the reincarnation of Buddha, they believe that he is the reincarnation of one of their teachers (Buddha means teacher) the Bodhisattva of Compassion. As we said before, it was not The Buddha who was reincarnated as the Dalai Lama

I thought the goal was to achieve material detachment from the world and achieve the oblivion of nirvana instead of being endlessly doomed to re-live life over and over again.

Nirvana is described as eternal bliss, not much of an oblivion. Buddhists believe that you will be reincarnated until you too reach Nirvana.

He was unable to detach himself from his feelings for people in this world, and because of his desire to help is reincarnated over and over again. Everyone else is supposed to try and get out of the cycle of re-incarnation, which he himself has refused to do.

Actually Tibetan Monks most often describe it as need. As long as the world needs their teachings the Lamas are reborn. When that part of teaching is no longer necessary they too will be unincorporated.

 

[MJDuncan1982]

What are the 'Truths' that Buddhism assumes as given?

 

[Zhukov]

Not of "Buddha", a reincarnation of the first Dalai Lhama

They do not believe that he is the reincarnation of Buddha, they believe that he is the reincarnation of one of their teachers (Buddha means teacher) the Bodhisattva of Compassion. As we said before, it was not The Buddha who was reincarnated as the Dalai Lama

Alright, who was that guy, and what did he do?

The goal is to have no goals, so there for it is not a goal.

Well, I'm sure we could get into an argument over semantics here, but that aside, it seems to me the Dalai Lama has a goal.

Or, is it that the needs of the world force him to be reincarnated against his will? And therefore he needs to convert everyone else before he can finally get to Nirvana himself?

 

[no1tovote4]

Alright, who was that guy, and what did he do?


Well, I'm sure we could get into an argument over semantics here, but that aside, it seems to me the Dalai Lama has a goal.

Or, is it that the needs of the world force him to be reincarnated against his will? And therefore he needs to convert everyone else before he can finally get to Nirvana himself?

Much like any other sect of a religion I cannot presume to answer for Tibetan Buddhists as I am not one. It is much like attempting to answer for a Catholic when you are a Protestant, while the basis of the religion is the same there are differences for which you need somebody that is part of such a sect in order to answer the questions that you have.

However I will do my best as I said that I would.

Here is a site that speaks of his choice to be reborn in order to continue to serve as spiritual leader of his people.

http://www.tibet.com/DL/biography.html

The Dalai Lamas are the manifestations of the Bodhisattva (Buddha) of Compassion, who chose to reincarnate to serve the people. Lhamo Dhondrub was, as Dalai Lama, renamed Jetsun Jamphel Ngawang Lobsang Yeshe Tenzin Gyatso - Holy Lord, Gentle Glory, Compassionate, Defender of the Faith, Ocean of Wisdom. Tibetans normally refer to His Holiness as Yeshe Norbu, the Wishfulfilling Gem or simply Kundun - The Presence.

Now Buddha is not a name of a person but the title of Teacher, therefore the original Dalai Lama Avalokitesvara, the Buddha of Compassion was a disciple of The Buddha. Here is a small part of his story, from "The Healing Forces of Music".

http://www.spiritsound.com/avalo.html

 

[Mr. P]

It's interesting to me that the only ones here that challenge other religions seem to be the Christians.
Why is that? Can't everyone have their own belief without condescension? Who says anyone is right?
No, not what "YOUR" belief is, who really says who's right?
No one can "prove" their side is "right", it's a belief. If a belief fits an individual and makes them happy in life, what's the problem? After all, "you" may be Wrong. Only time will tell.

Now my Recipe for life:
Be happy and leave other people alone so they can be happy too, unless they,
behind the vail of their happiness step on your happiness, then ya gotta fight.

I must admit (not directed at anyone in particular) some of you Christians here
have driven me further away from Christianity than some southern thumpers have.

 

[no1tovote4]

What are the 'Truths' that Buddhism assumes as given?

Here is a simplified form of the basic tenets of Buddhism....



Four Noble Truths:


1. Suffering exists
2. Suffering arises from attachment to desires
3. Suffering ceases when attachment to desire ceases
4. Freedom from suffering is possible by practicing the Eightfold Path


Noble Eightfold Path:


Three Qualities Eightfold Path
Wisdom (panna) Right View
----------------Right Thought
Morality (sila) Right Speech
--------------Right Action
--------------Right Livelihood
Meditation (samadhi) Right Effort
---------------------Right Mindfulness
---------------------Right Contemplation



Three Characteristics of Existence:


1. Transiency (anicca)
2. Sorrow (dukkha)
3. Selflessness (anatta)


Hindrances:


1. Sensuous lust
2. Aversion and ill will
3. Sloth and torpor
4. Restlessness and worry
5. Sceptical doubt




Factors of Enlightenment:


1. Mindfulness
2. Investigation
3. Energy
4. Rapture
5. Tranquillity
6. Concentration
7. Equanimity

 

[CivilLiberty]

Well, I'm sure we could get into an argument over semantics here, but that aside, it seems to me the Dalai Lama has a goal.

Or, is it that the needs of the world force him to be reincarnated against his will? And therefore he needs to convert everyone else before he can finally get to Nirvana himself?

First, I'm "zen" not "Tibetan", and I don't claim to be an expert on Tibetan Buddhism. (However, I do think the Dalai Lama is an amazing guy - saw the Herzog documentary on him last year). Don't apply what you see in Tibetan to other sects.

Having said that, here's the problem - and it's deeper than semantics. You're applying western terms and ideologies to a different philosophy, where these terms have no meaning, or are not a part of the greater meaning.

It's not an "if-then" philosophy, concerned so much with cause and effect, or some absolute black and white definition, or some sort of "capture the flag" game.

Andy

 

[Zhukov]

It's interesting to me that the only ones here that challenge other religions seem to be the Christians.

I'm not a christian.

You're applying western terms and ideologies to a different philosophy, where these terms have no meaning, or are not a part of the greater meaning.

It's not an "if-then" philosophy, concerned so much with cause and effect, or some absolute black and white definition, or some sort of "capture the flag" game.

Well, if he is repeatedly re-incarnating to try and help lead the world's people to Nirvana.....well, that seems like a goal to me.

You haven't explained how it's not.

Is it just something that 'is'?

And I'm not applying what I see in the Tibetan version of Buddhism to other sects, it's just the Tibetan sect that I'm curious about. This is the "ask the Buddhist" thread, not the "ask the zen Buddhist" thread.

 

[no1tovote4]

I'm not a christian.Well, if he is repeatedly re-incarnating to try and help lead the world's people to Nirvana.....well, that seems like a goal to me.

You haven't explained how it's not.

Is it just something that 'is'?

And I'm not applying what I see in the Tibetan version of Buddhism to other sects, it's just the Tibetan sect that I'm curious about. This is the "ask the Buddhist" thread, not the "ask the zen Buddhist" thread.

I guess I should have made it the "Ask the Theravada Buddhist!" thread. LOL. I will try to answer your questions, even about Tibetan Buddhism, it will just take me longer to get actual answers to your queries if they encompass a type of Buddhism that I do not study.

 

[no1tovote4]

I'm not a christian.Well, if he is repeatedly re-incarnating to try and help lead the world's people to Nirvana.....well, that seems like a goal to me.

You haven't explained how it's not.

Is it just something that 'is'?

And I'm not applying what I see in the Tibetan version of Buddhism to other sects, it's just the Tibetan sect that I'm curious about. This is the "ask the Buddhist" thread, not the "ask the zen Buddhist" thread.

The Goal of Buddhism

Goal of Buddhism

How beautiful and how succinct, I thought. "You are saying, then, the goal of Buddhism is nirvana?"

He nodded. "The goal of Buddhism is nirvana — deliverance of the mind. That is the final goal and cessation of all sufferings and conflicts — supreme happiness. But, also, the Buddha emphasizes the importance of the present life. In Buddhism we find the economic, social, ethical, intellectual, and mental or spiritual aspects. Buddhism emphasizes these aspects and the Buddha teaches all aspects of human life."


http://www.spiritualworld.org/buddhism/goal.htm

"We are visitors on this planet. We are here for ninety, a hundred years at the very most. During that period we must try to do something good, something useful with our lives. Try to be at peace with yourself and help others share that peace. If you contribute to other people's happiness, you will find the true goal, the true meaning of life." ~ The Dalai Lama of Tibet

As far as I understand it from everything that I have read about Tibetan Buddhism:
The Dalai Lama is here to teach Compassion. He (and other Lamas) will reincarnate as long as he feels he is needed.

 

[CivilLiberty]

Is it just something that 'is'?

Yea.

Think in terms of non-dependance. See:

http://www.kwanumzen.com/pzc/newsletter/v15n03-2003-mar.html

Tangentially, here's a famous Zen koan:


Q: What is the Buddha?

A: Dry shit on a stick.

---

Here are a few more koans, which I hope are illustrative:


---
One day as Manjusri stood outside the gate, the Buddha called to him, "Manjusri, Manjusri, why do you not enter?" Manjusri replied, "I do not see myself as outside. Why enter?"

---

Where to Meet after Death

Dogo paid a visit to his sick fellow monk, Ungan. "Where can I see you again if you die and leave only your corpse?" Dogo asked. "I will meet you where nothing dies," Ungan replied. Dogo criticized his response saying, "What you should have said is that there is no place where nothing is born and nothing dies and that we need not see each other at all.

---

When Bankei was preaching at Ryumon temple, a Shinshu priest, who believed in salvation through the repitition of the name of the Buddha of Love, was jealous of his large audience and wanted to debate with him.

Bankei was in the midst of a talk when the priest appeared, but the fellow made such a disturbance that bankei stopped his discourse and asked about the noise.

"The founder of our sect," boasted the priest, "had such miraculous powers that he held a brush in his hand on one bank of the river, his attendant held up a paper on the other bank, and the teacher wrote the holy name of Amida through the air. Can you do such a wonderful thing?"

Bankei replied lightly: "Perhaps your fox can perform that trick, but that is not the manner of Zen. My miracle is that when I feel hungry I eat, and when I feel thirsty I drink."

---


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[CivilLiberty]

I guess I should have made it the "Ask the Theravada Buddhist!" thread. LOL.

Yea and I'm probably not helping matters there...




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