Arnold the "Terminator 'Bitch Slaps"

[theHawk]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051213/ap_on_re_eu/europe_williams_execution_1

VIENNA, Austria - California's execution of Stanley Tookie Williams on Tuesday outraged many in Europe who regard the practice as barbaric, and politicians in Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's native Austria called for his name to be removed from a sports stadium in his hometown.


At the Vatican, Pope Benedict XVI's top official for justice matters denounced the death penalty for going against redemption and human dignity.

"We know the death penalty doesn't resolve anything," Cardinal Renato Martino told AP Television News. "Even a criminal is worthy of respect because he is a human being. The death penalty is a negation of human dignity."

Capital punishment is illegal throughout the European Union, and many Europeans consider state-sponsored executions to be barbaric. Those feelings were amplified in the case of Williams, due to the apparent remorse they believe the Crips gang co-founder showed by writing children's books about the dangers of gangs and violence.

Leaders of Austria's pacifist Green Party went as far as to call for Schwarzenegger to be stripped of his Austrian citizenship — a demand that was quickly rejected by Chancellor Wolfgang Schuessel despite his government's opposition to the death penalty.

"Whoever, out of political calculation, allows the death of a person rehabilitated in such an exemplary manner has rejected the basic values of Austrian society," said Peter Pilz, a Greens leader.

In Schwarzenegger's hometown of Graz, local Greens said they would file a petition to remove his name from the southern city's sports stadium. A Christian political group went even further, suggesting it be renamed the "Stanley Tookie Williams Stadium."

"Mr. Williams had converted, and unlike Mr. Schwarzenegger, opposed every form of violence," said Richard Schadauer, the chairman of the Association of Christianity and Social Democracy.

Williams was executed early Tuesday at California's San Quentin State Prison after Schwarzenegger denied Williams' request for clemency. Schwarzenegger suggested that Williams' supposed change of heart was not genuine because he had not shown any real remorse for the killings committed by the Crips.

Criticism came quickly from many quarters, including the Socialist Party in France, where the death penalty was abolished in 1981.

"I am proud to be a Frenchman," party spokesman Julien Dray told RTL radio. "I am proud to live in France, in a country where we don't execute somebody 21 years later."

"Schwarzenegger has a lot of muscles, but apparently not much heart," Dray said.

In Italy, the country's chapter of Amnesty International called the execution "a cold-blooded murder."

"His execution is a slap in the face to the principle of rehabilitation of inmates, an inhumane and inclement act toward a person who, with his exemplary behavior and his activity in favor of street kids, had become an important figure and a symbol of hope for many youths," the group said.

In Germany, Volker Beck, a leading member of the opposition Greens party, expressed disappointment. "Schwarzenegger's decision is a cowardly decision," Beck told the Netzeitung online newspaper.

From London, Clive Stafford-Smith, a human rights attorney specializing in death penalty cases, called the execution "very sad."

"He was twice as old as when they sentenced him to die, and he certainly wasn't the same person that he was when he was sentenced," Stafford-Smith said.

Rome Mayor Walter Veltroni said the city would keep Williams in its memory the next time it celebrates a victory against the death penalty somewhere in the world.

Rome's Colosseum, once the arena for deadly gladiator combat and executions, has become a symbol of Italy's anti-death penalty stance. Since 1999, the monument has been bathed in golden light every time a death sentence is commuted somewhere in the world or a country abolishes capital punishment.

"I hope there will be such an occasion soon," Veltroni said in a statement. "When it happens, we will do it with a special thought for Tookie."

 

[Hagbard Celine]

They Ah Just Jealous Of His Mazzels! Aagghheee!

 

[Avatar4321]

You know its sad that so many of these people have no concept of justice.

 

[Abbey Normal]

They have a right to their opinion, but what makes them think we should give it any weight? Europe has so many of it's own problems, that they are in the proverbial glass house throwing stones across the pond.

 

[Hobbit]

During his stay in prison, Tookie assaulted several guards, continued his contact with the Crips, planned many failed prison breaks, continually stonewalled police when they asked for any information on the Crips gange, and wrote two children's books. Am I supposed to ignore everything but the last one? The guy was about as remorseful as I am after killing a spider. If you can get clemency for writing a book, despite continuing violent behavior in prison, we might as well just abolish the death penalty. Of course, we've seen what happens when a society opts for mercy and refuses to see criminals for who they really are. In many places where the death penalty is outlawed, all criminals can be paroled to limit the prison population, and parole restrictions are much lighter, for the same purpose. So, they face something that other places don't, recidivisim. The recidivism for those given the death penalty is 0%, and though you don't often hear this from merciful prison advocates, recidivism for others is pretty high.

 

[Hobbit]

Oh, and I forgot to mention that this "enlightened" continent has been invaded more times than my refridgerator. Arkansas has four stars in the middle of its flag, one above the word "Arkansas" for the United States, the other three below it to represent the three other regimes that have ruled it. If any country in Europe did the same, it would take nanites to fit that many stars on the same flag. Europe's arrogance and sense of superiority is legendary, and has been ever since Europeans first discovered that there were places beyond Europe. It's sickening.

 

[Avatar4321]

Oh, and I forgot to mention that this "enlightened" continent has been invaded more times than my refridgerator. Arkansas has four stars in the middle of its flag, one above the word "Arkansas" for the United States, the other three below it to represent the three other regimes that have ruled it. If any country in Europe did the same, it would take nanites to fit that many stars on the same flag. Europe's arrogance and sense of superiority is legendary, and has been ever since Europeans first discovered that there were places beyond Europe. It's sickening.

What are the other three regimes?

 

[MtnBiker]

It appears the Europeans are getting an unbaised perspective of Tookie from their media.

 

[musicman]

"Whoever, out of political calculation, allows the death of a person rehabilitated in such an exemplary manner has rejected the basic values of Austrian society," said Peter Pilz, a Greens leader.

This, from the country that gave us Adolf Hitler.

 

[Annie]

They have a right to their opinion, but what makes them think we should give it any weight? Europe has so many of it's own problems, that they are in the proverbial glass house throwing stones across the pond.

That they do and I've yet to notice any Americans bashing their system, though their crime rates continue to rise, while ours fall. Granted they haven't caught us yet, at least officially, but they are on their way.

 

[Hobbit]

What are the other three regimes?

Spain found AR first. That's the reason there's a bunch of stuff in Southern Arkansas named "De Soto." It became U.S. property through the Louisianna Purchase, meaning it was once owned by France...you know, back when they were almost cool...before all the good ones came to U.S. and became Cajuns. The third one was the Confederacy.

 

[Mariner]

think about the issue of innocent people on death row (an extraordinary number have now been found innocent due to DNA evidence) and about the issue of the greater statistical likelihood of ending up on death row if you're a black person who has killed a white than any other combination? (A white who kills a black is about 10 times less likely to end up on death row.) How is that justice?

And do we like being in the lovely company of a handful of backwards places like Libya who support capital punishment?

I think most people who like the death penalty are simply vicariously enjoying killing another person, just as the mobs who used to attend medieval executions did, and those who watch Saudi public beheadings still do. It's barbaric, and bad karma for us.

Mariner

 

[insein]

During his stay in prison, Tookie assaulted several guards, continued his contact with the Crips, planned many failed prison breaks, continually stonewalled police when they asked for any information on the Crips gange, and wrote two children's books. Am I supposed to ignore everything but the last one? The guy was about as remorseful as I am after killing a spider. If you can get clemency for writing a book, despite continuing violent behavior in prison, we might as well just abolish the death penalty. Of course, we've seen what happens when a society opts for mercy and refuses to see criminals for who they really are. In many places where the death penalty is outlawed, all criminals can be paroled to limit the prison population, and parole restrictions are much lighter, for the same purpose. So, they face something that other places don't, recidivisim. The recidivism for those given the death penalty is 0%, and though you don't often hear this from merciful prison advocates, recidivism for others is pretty high.

People that are such a menace to society that they cause disruption inside a prison deserve to be put to death. I can almost understand not having a death penalty for people as a means to "punish" someone. The way i look at the death penalty is that it should be used for people who are such a danger to society, that there is no alternative but death. Sociopathic Serial Killers/rapists and the like should be removed from ALL society permanantly since they pose a serious threat to the well being of others around them. If guards or other prisoners cant expect a reasonable expectation of life with the presence of these individuals, then they need to be put to death.

Death Penalty as a form of Punishment is IMO wrong. Who are we to play God and cast punishment? We do have a right to protect society though. IF we can not reasonably protect those around them in jail for the duration of their lives, then death is the only alternative. Tookie's case was not punishment. It was removing a danger to society.

 

[insein]

think about the issue of innocent people on death row (an extraordinary number have now been found innocent due to DNA evidence) and about the issue of the greater statistical likelihood of ending up on death row if you're a black person who has killed a white than any other combination? (A white who kills a black is about 10 times less likely to end up on death row.) How is that justice?

And do we like being in the lovely company of a handful of backwards places like Libya who support capital punishment?

I think most people who like the death penalty are simply vicariously enjoying killing another person, just as the mobs who used to attend medieval executions did, and those who watch Saudi public beheadings still do. It's barbaric, and bad karma for us.

Mariner

The system works. It takes 25 years of appeals to approve a death sentence. The fact that innocents are being exhonorated is proof that it works. Comparing us to Libya and the like is disingenuous. We dont arrest, try, convict and execute a prisoner all in the same day. We have a process and as much as i hate lawyers, there is something that they are useful for.

 

[Hobbit]

think about the issue of innocent people on death row (an extraordinary number have now been found innocent due to DNA evidence) and about the issue of the greater statistical likelihood of ending up on death row if you're a black person who has killed a white than any other combination? (A white who kills a black is about 10 times less likely to end up on death row.) How is that justice?

And do we like being in the lovely company of a handful of backwards places like Libya who support capital punishment?

I think most people who like the death penalty are simply vicariously enjoying killing another person, just as the mobs who used to attend medieval executions did, and those who watch Saudi public beheadings still do. It's barbaric, and bad karma for us.

Mariner

Your statistics are off. In the U.S. as a whole, blacks make up 12% of the population and 38% of the executed criminals...and 51% of the murderers.

At a glance, a black man seems 3 times more likely to get the death penalty, a travesty but far short of the 10x you quoted. However, if you look more closely, a black murderer is less likely than a white murderer to get the death penalty. In California, it's even more unlikely, with the ratio being, like 7:1.

 

[Mariner]

the fact that people on death row are being found innocent is proof the system works?

I wish. Unfortunately, it's not their defending lawyers or the courts who convicted them who are now finding them innocent. It is volunteer organization at law schools (particularly Chicago) which are re-examining the evidence in old cases, performiong DNA tests on old evidence, and discovering crazy things like defense lawyers who slept through most of the trial while their clients were being sentenced to death.

So, the fact that people are being found innocent is proof the system doesn't work. Presumably, there are many more innocent people on death row, who just haven't been lucky enough to have a zealous law student reopen their case, or whose old evidence has been destroyed so it can't be reviewed with DNA testing.

Hobbit. No, my statistics aren't off. Your argument assumes that equal numbers of blacks kill whites and vice versa. If those numbers aren't equal, then it is possible for black killers of whites to be 10 times (actually, I believe it is 9 times, but close enough) more likely to be sentenced to death than white killers of blacks. Proof the system is discriminatory, with an automatic consequence of tending to make black people distrustful of our government's authority.

Here's another argument against the death penalty. All the small-government, "you can't trust government" types around here should be very skeptical of the government's ability to properly judge if someone deserves to die.

Mariner.

 

[insein]

the fact that people on death row are being found innocent is proof the system works?

I wish. Unfortunately, it's not their defending lawyers or the courts who convicted them who are now finding them innocent. It is volunteer organization at law schools (particularly Chicago) which are re-examining the evidence in old cases, performiong DNA tests on old evidence, and discovering crazy things like defense lawyers who slept through most of the trial while their clients were being sentenced to death.

So, the fact that people are being found innocent is proof the system doesn't work. Presumably, there are many more innocent people on death row, who just haven't been lucky enough to have a zealous law student reopen their case, or whose old evidence has been destroyed so it can't be reviewed with DNA testing.

Hobbit. No, my statistics aren't off. Your argument assumes that equal numbers of blacks kill whites and vice versa. If those numbers aren't equal, then it is possible for black killers of whites to be 10 times (actually, I believe it is 9 times, but close enough) more likely to be sentenced to death than white killers of blacks. Proof the system is discriminatory, with an automatic consequence of tending to make black people distrustful of our government's authority.

Here's another argument against the death penalty. All the small-government, "you can't trust government" types around here should be very skeptical of the government's ability to properly judge if someone deserves to die.

Mariner.

I beg to differ. The system works because those people are exhonnorated (sp?). They were found to be innocent or were found to have had misrepresentation and therefore got a second chance at a fair trial or freed altogether. It was a shame they got convicted in the first place, but the system thats in place saved them from being executed.

Certain people need to be executed to prevent any further danger to society, even prison society. A person that is so dangerous that they can not be trusted in a prison environment to not kill other prisoners or guards deserves to be executed. Someone who if released would committ the same heinous crime without even a split second of thought about the consequences need to be removed from society permenantly. That is the point of JAIL. Its not to rehabilitate. Its to remove dangers to society temporarily or permanantly. If a life sentence does not remove the danger to other people then a person needs to be executed.

Now the process of conviction for death penalty may need to be streamlined but the process of appeal works.

 

[Mariner]

is no "system" in place to make sure innocent people aren't executed. It's totally hit or miss. If you're lucky, and some law student reviews your case, you might get taken off death row. Over 100 people already have been.

To me, it undercuts the meaning of "justice" for 100+ people to have been on death row who were in fact innocent.

It's actually more expensive to execute someone than to jail him/her for life, so why don't we just do the latter? I believe it's because we secretly like the idea of killing someone. In my religion, that's called bad karma.

And you didn't address the unfairness in being sentenced depending on your skin color and that of your victim.

Mariner.

 

[MtnBiker]

think about the issue of innocent people on death row (an extraordinary number have now been found innocent due to DNA evidence)

What exactly is the number of people found innocent to make it extraordinary?

 

[Annie]

http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/news/13443586.htm

Schwarzenegger tells hometown to remove his name from stadium

JENNIFER COLEMAN
Associated Press

SACRAMENTO - Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger on Monday told officials in his hometown in Austria to remove his name from a sports stadium and stop using his name to promote the city.

The governor's request came after politicians in Graz began a petition drive to rename the stadium, reacting to Schwarzenegger's decision last week to deny clemency to condemned inmate Stanley Tookie Williams. Opposition to the death penalty is strong in Austria.

In a letter that began "Dear Mister Mayor," Schwarzenegger said he decided to spare the Graz city council "further concern" should he be forced to make other clemency decisions while serving as California's governor. He faces another such decision regarding a 75-year-old inmate scheduled to be executed Jan. 17.

"In all likelihood, during my term as governor, I will have to make similar and equally difficult decisions," Schwarzenegger said in the letter. "In order to spare the responsible politicians of the city of Graz further concern, I withdraw from them as of this day the right to use my name in association with the Liebenauer Stadium."

The stadium had been renamed for the former Hollywood star in 1997. He said he wanted the lettering removed by year's end.

Schwarzenegger initially declined to respond to the political backlash after he denied clemency for Williams, the co-founder of the Crips gang who was convicted of four 1979 murders. Williams was executed shortly after midnight Dec. 13.

The Graz city council was expected to take up the matter on Jan. 19. The proposal to rename the stadium had support from the Greens party and the Social Democrats, giving it majority backing.

Schwarzenegger spokeswoman Margita Thompson said the letter was faxed to Graz city hall on Monday.

In it, Schwarzenegger also said he would no longer permit the use of his name "to advertise or promote the city of Graz in any way" and would return the city's "ring of honor."

The ring was given to him in a ceremony in Graz in 1999. At the time, Schwarzenegger said he considered it "a token of sincere friendship between my hometown and me.

"Since, however, the official Graz appears to no longer accept me as one of their own, this ring has lost its meaning and value to me. It is already in the mail," the governor wrote.

The letter notes that city officials will receive a follow-up letter from Schwarzenegger's attorney.

Despite the dispute with Graz officials, Schwarzenegger said he "will remain with all my heart a Grazer, a Steierer and an Austrian."

Steier is the state that includes Graz.