Aren't these Ukrainian laws the Nazi ones?

[Dissident]

The United States used to have a lot of laws that treated different ethnicities in different ways, until the passage of the Civil Rights Act in 1964.

Once again you have written here that before 1964 the US had had a lot of laws/rules that had treated different ethnicities in different ways.
But you haven’t told the titles of these US laws and haven’t told how they had treated different ethnicities in different ways.
Please tell that!

Lol, how fucking stupid do you have to be to try to accuse a state lead by a Jew who's family was murdered by the Nazis of being a Nazi?

You say that a state, whose President is a half-Jew, cannot be a Nazi state. And it doesn’t matter what is going on in this state.

My opinion is that it does matter what is going on in the respective state. And if the citizens of this state according to their ethnic origin are divided into categories, which have different rights, it is a Nazi state - regardless of the ethnicity of its President.

 

[evenflow1969]

Once again you have written here that before 1964 the US had had a lot of laws/rules that had treated different ethnicities in different ways.
But you haven’t told the titles of these US laws and haven’t told how they had treated different ethnicities in different ways.
Please tell that!


You say that a state, whose President is a half-Jew, cannot be a Nazi state. And it doesn’t matter what is going on in this state.

My opinion is that it does matter what is going on in the respective state. And if the citizens of this state according to their ethnic origin are divided into categories, which have different rights, it is a Nazi state - regardless of the ethnicity of its President.

Lol, OK shortbus. Take your Russian lies and propaganda and put them where the sun don't shine.

 

[justoffal]

One of the main declared tasks of the Russian military operation in Ukraine is denazification of Ukraine.
Therefore, it is important to answer the question – Is the present Ukraine a Nazi state?
The main feature of Nazism is division of citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories which have different rights.

A classic example of a Nazi state was the Hitler's Germany where Germans had all rights, Slavic minorities – Lusatians etc. – had less rights than Germans, and Jews had less rights than Slavs.
Therefore, at that time the German society had the form of a pyramid where some ethnic groups were placed higher and some other lower.

View attachment 631638​

Many aspects of life were regulated according to this pyramid, inter alia, Jews had no right to marry Germans; many professions could be practices only by Germans, etc.

The present Ukraine

According to the Constitution of Ukraine, all Ukrainian citizens irrespective of their ethnic origin have equal rights.

But is it really so?

Spoiler

Let’s analyze, for example, the Ukrainian Law on Indigenous Peoples and Law on Secondary Education.
These laws provide that only Ukrainians, Crimean Tatars and two other small Crimean Turkic peoples have the right to be taught in Ukraine with use of their native languages in all grades of secondary school.

Ethnic Hungarians, Romanians and Bulgarians have the right to be taught in Ukraine with use of their native languages in elementary school, but after the fourth grade they must be taught with use of the Ukrainian language during at least 20% of annual school hours in middle school. The percentage of use of the Ukrainian language gradually increases for such children in the following grades and reaches 60% of annual school hours in high school.

As for ethnic Russians, the education for their children in Ukraine can be provided in elementary school with use of the Russian language together with learning of the Ukrainian language, but after the fourth grade they must be taught with use of the Ukrainian language during at least 80% of annual school hours.

Therefore, we see in the domain of education in Ukraine the same pyramid when citizens are divided into categories which we saw in the Nazi Germany.

View attachment 631639​

And such curtailment of rights of ethnic Russians in Ukraine has taken place gradually - with apologies, regrets etc. – but systematically.
For example, after the “Victory of Euromaidan” in 2014 – although Euromaidan had originally been declared as people's insurrection against the “corrupt regime of Yanukovych” – the Ukrainian Parliament at the same day repealed the Law on Regional Languages.

Three months later, the first “post-revolutionary” Ukrainian President Poroshenko in his interview for Le Figaro called this decision of the Parliament a mistake (see here), but later this law was finally repealed.

Over the last 8 years the Ukrainian rulers failed to prove that the “corrupt regime of Yanukovych” had stolen one single dollar (see here) but they did very much for curtailment of rights of ethnic Russians in Ukraine.
Therefore, I am sure that they planned to do much more for such curtailment.

And please answer the question – Aren't the above-mentioned Ukrainian laws the Nazi ones?

Source

Wow....right out of Mein Kampf!

 

[Bleipriester]

Wow....right out of Mein Kampf!

Real pic as avatar?

 

[justoffal]

Real pic as avatar?

Clever!...close enough now that you ask.

 

[justoffal]

Lol, how fucking stupid do you have to be to try to accuse a state lead by a Jew who's family was murdered by the Nazis of being a Nazi? Hilarious flat out blatant lie and a very poor one. If you are going to be a fucking liar at least try and be a good one. You should be fucking ashamed.

George Soros is Both...and Zalensky's mentor soooooo.

 

[Pellinore]

Once again you have written here that before 1964 the US had had a lot of laws/rules that had treated different ethnicities in different ways.
But you haven’t told the titles of these US laws and haven’t told how they had treated different ethnicities in different ways.
Please tell that!

There were many. To begin with, in the US, the methods of voting are determined by the individual States, and until the 15th Amendment, many restricted voting only to whites. In the period of Reconstruction following the Civil War, the most prominent racial laws were called the Black Codes or Jim Crow Laws. One example was the Louisiana Separate Car Act of 1890, stating that Blacks and whites must use different rail cars; a man named Homer Plessy challenged the law all the way to the Supreme Court before he lost, and the decision against him enshrined the idea of "separate but equal" for another 60 or so years. There were racial laws aimed at other ethnicities as well, including the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882, and you may have heard of the Indian Removal Act or Dawes Act, which had *drastic* effects on the Native American tribes. These were all various styles of horrible, but none of them were enough to label the United States as a Nazi or fascist state.

And that is the point, so don't get distracted by the example. Your point is that the Ukrainian laws about who gets taught which language is evidence that Ukraine is a Nazi state. Your argument falls apart, though, because:
- You are presenting these language laws as if they are inherently racist, while ignoring that there are other reasons why such laws would be in effect;
- Even if they were racist, that's not nearly enough to qualify a nation as Nazi.

I don't know if you and the author "Holt" are the same person, but you and they both seem to be trying to conjure evidence in order to support your preexisting ideas, rather than the intellectually honest practice of developing your ideas from analyzing the evidence. I can't spend my whole life on this thread, but I would recommend that you open your mind, identify different ideologies, and learn to spot manipulation.

As your first step, maybe teach yourself the difference between Nazis, fascists, and expansionist Russian autocrats.

 

[justoffal]

There were many. To begin with, in the US, the methods of voting are determined by the individual States, and until the 15th Amendment, many restricted voting only to whites. In the period of Reconstruction following the Civil War, the most prominent racial laws were called the Black Codes or Jim Crow Laws. One example was the Louisiana Separate Car Act of 1890, stating that Blacks and whites must use different rail cars; a man named Homer Plessy challenged the law all the way to the Supreme Court before he lost, and the decision against him enshrined the idea of "separate but equal" for another 60 or so years. There were racial laws aimed at other ethnicities as well, including the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882, and you may have heard of the Indian Removal Act or Dawes Act, which had *drastic* effects on the Native American tribes. These were all various styles of horrible, but none of them were enough to label the United States as a Nazi or fascist state.

And that is the point, so don't get distracted by the example. Your point is that the Ukrainian laws about who gets taught which language is evidence that Ukraine is a Nazi state. Your argument falls apart, though, because:
- You are presenting these language laws as if they are inherently racist, while ignoring that there are other reasons why such laws would be in effect;
- Even if they were racist, that's not nearly enough to qualify a nation as Nazi.

I don't know if you and the author "Holt" are the same person, but you and they both seem to be trying to conjure evidence in order to support your preexisting ideas, rather than the intellectually honest practice of developing your ideas from analyzing the evidence. I can't spend my whole life on this thread, but I would recommend that you open your mind, identify different ideologies, and learn to spot manipulation.

As your first step, maybe teach yourself the difference between Nazis, fascists, and expansionist Russian autocrats.

Meh....is there any difference substantive enough to be technically significant? In the end do they not all fall under the general category of totalitarianism?

 

[Pellinore]

Meh....is there any difference substantive enough to be technically significant? In the end do they not all fall under the general category of totalitarianism?

Yeah, it's important. Fascism, for example, is a type of dictatorship, but it's not the only one, and has its own methods and warning signs. If you call all brutal dictatorships 'fascists,' then you're not talking about those fascism's specific dangers to democracy, which in turn makes it easier for fascism to gain a foothold in society, because no one talks about it.

It's like murder, and crime. Murder is a type of crime, but imagine if we called all crime 'murder' for the emotional punch. Then, whenever we bring it up, we'll be including robbery and arson and fraud and so on in the conversation, and the people who really, really love murder will have an easier time doing it because there's no actual discussion about it any more.

It is really bad with 'Nazi' and 'fascist,' because they are such loaded, emotional terms. Who doesn't love to call their enemies 'fascists'? The irony is that diluting the term is actually making it easier for real fascism to slip by unchallenged.

 

[Dissident]

Your point is that the Ukrainian laws about who gets taught which language is evidence that Ukraine is a Nazi state.

I would put it more precisely – my point is that if citizens of a state according to their ethnic origin are divided into categories, which have different rights, it is a Nazi state.

Your argument falls apart, though, because:
- You are presenting these language laws as if they are inherently racist, while ignoring that there are other reasons why such laws would be in effect;

I read a lot of documents of German Nazis in the past. And I know that the German Nazis had always given VERY NOBLE reasons for all their actions including the most barbarian actions. As a rule, all their actions had been explained by necessity to protect Germans, to defend them and so on.
And I know for sure that present Ukrainian rulers give very noble reasons for all their laws etc. too.

As your first step, maybe teach yourself the difference between Nazis, fascists..,

I know difference between German Nazism, Italian Fascism, Japanese Militarism etc. very well.
But this difference has nothing to do with the subject of this thread – with Ukrainian laws.

 

[Ringo]

Nazism and nationalism will offer you nothing but rabid, animal hatred of another people, and this hatred will lead you in a vicious circle – lies, obscurantism, brutality, massacre, vendetta. So people are being dragged into another meat grinder of private Capital.

 

[ReinyDays]

Once again you have written here that before 1964 the US had had a lot of laws/rules that had treated different ethnicities in different ways.
But you haven’t told the titles of these US laws and haven’t told how they had treated different ethnicities in different ways.

Chinese Exclusion Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"The Chinese Exclusion Act was a United States federal law signed by President Chester A. Arthur on May 6, 1882, prohibiting all immigration of Chinese laborers. Building on the earlier Page Act of 1875, which banned Chinese women from migrating to the United States, the Chinese Exclusion Act was the first – and remains the only – law to have been implemented to prevent all members of a specific ethnic or national group from immigrating to the United States." [Emphasis mine]

But otherwise I agree with you ... Nazis killing Jews and Slavs wasn't a problem for the rest of Europe ... more than happy to see these peoples slaughtered off the face of the Earth ... it was the territorial expansion that got Hitler in trouble ... so today we're fine with the Russians murdering the Ukrainians, but that land has to stay in Western control ...

The Ukraine is valuable, whoever controls these lands will be rich ... this war is about money ... and territory ... not political ideology ...

 

[Ringo]

Nothing in the world changes. The russians are fighting the nazis, the banderites are killing civilians with the approval of Germany, and the United States is making money on the supply of weapons...

 

[Dissident]

The answer to your question - to the question "Aren't these Ukrainian laws the Nazi ones?" - is absolutely not...

My opponents in this thread deny that the Ukrainian laws, which divide Ukrainian citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories having different rights, are Nazi laws.

And I have two questions to my opponents:

How would you personally call these Ukrainian laws then? Are these laws, for example, democratic, in your opinion?

And the second question.

Would you like to be a citizen of a country where citizens according to their ethnic origin are divided into categories having different rights? Especially, if you personally only because of your ethnic origin would have less rights than other citizens?

 

[Richard-H]

Nobody is really a Nazi unless their leader has one of those little Hitler mustaches!!!

 

[Dissident]

There're many supporters of Ukraine in the West and on this forum.
But none of them has answered the questions from my previous post.

Especially, none has said that he/she would like to be a citizen of a country like Ukraine – i.e. a citizen of a country where citizens according to their ethnic origin are divided into categories which have different rights.

 

[Ringo]

There was no nazis in Ukraine!

 

[Ringo]

The Japanese authorities criticized Ukraine for comparing Emperor Seva with Hitler in a video

April 25, 2022,
The Japanese authorities made a presentation to the Ukrainian government after the publication of a video in which Emperor Showa (Hirohito) is put on a par with Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini. This was announced at a press conference by Deputy Secretary General of the Government of Japan Yoshihiko Isozaki.

"Putting Emperor Showa on a par with Hitler and Mussolini is completely incorrect and deplorable," RIA Novosti quotes Isozaki.

According to him, a presentation was made to Kiev through the Embassy of Ukraine in Japan demanding that this video be removed.

Isozaki added that Kiev deleted the video and apologized.

On April 19, the Japanese Foreign Ministry announced that Tokyo would increase the amount of loans to be provided to the Ukrainian side from $100 million to $300 million.
The Japanese also need to make claims against the Americans for the same offense:

These plush and kawaii Japanese, who genocided the civilian population on the territories they captured on an even larger scale than Hitler's Germany (something about 35-50 million modestly only in China) were offended by some fascists for putting them on a par with other fascists in the form of a compliment...
Some kind of surrealism... If the fire of atomic bombings had not cleared the blood of innocent civilians from Japanese hands throughout the space occupied by Japan, this comparison would have been considered too diminutive, and now Japan is teaching the whole world how to protect human rights in the occupied territories...
At the same time, probably still quite deliberately forgetting even to apologize for his past tricks to the victims...

 

[Dissident]

Some users of the forum deny that the Ukrainian laws, which are described in the first post of this thread, are Nazi laws.
However, these users don’t give their definition – what laws are Nazi ones in their opinion.
I give such a definition - Nazi laws are the laws which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories having different rights. And the Ukrainian laws, which are described in the first post of this thread, match this definition.

Therefore I ask my opponents to give their definition of Nazi laws too.

 

[skye]

thats Ukraine for ya.