Are moral vales an instinctive act or one taught ?

[HaShev]

Morals are community norms. Valid morals are those which assist the community to survive/prosper. Different communities have different morals.

Exactly....

Now that is also usually the problem.
Once upon a time when television was just getting started the program "I Love Lucy" was very popular...but Lucy and Desi didn't have a bed they shared...two twin beds even though they were married was seen in their bedroom. Because to show otherwise was too racy for the day.
Today we seem to have trouble keeping every form of sexual perversion from being broadcast and all of the actors seem to have clothing issues with keeping them on.

Then you have the news. Where the common themes are shaming public figures for incompetence, negligence, greed or philandering or showing the depravity of the dregs of society. Or even just some good old fashioned fear peddling of how bad things are outside. News is always bad... never been good.

Programming is entertainment...the average guy being an everyday good guy always gets hurt, killed, destroyed financially or something horrible. When the truth is far from that. Life is not reflected in entertainment and neither are morals that need to be learned by society.

"Christians vs the Lions" was once a popular form of entertainment. So was Asheroth worship. (Really old fashioned sex and violence) today the blood is faked and so is the love in the sex.
Even though Shakespeare was famous for quoting passages out of the Geneva Bible many people considered him to be a heretic for producing theater. Elizabeth was rather uncommitted to making moral and religious determinations as it was rather a huge political fight...and fighting was unproductive in her estimation. She was more interested in keeping the UK together.

I did a commentary on this a long time ago and posted it in the forums years ago.
Back in the eras as you describe it was called
"Folkways of a Community"-
Characteristics of the society of folk & how it imposes on other regions who have their own norms.
The zest of the social community somewhat depends on population size and the amount of convenience born out of the many offered services and amount of entertainment available in that community.
Community life also somewhat revolves around the cultural backround and traditions of these
communities which give those communities it’s distinct characteristics.
This structure of behavior that’s set by the primary group practice is known as
‘Folkways’.
(Characteristics of the society of folk).

These folkways seem to determine and set perceptions of what is right from wrong as well as set standards for moral and ethical code and patterns within it’s own tolerance whether rational, scientific or practicle or not.
A community based on a Christian Primary group might find certain things intolerable by their set standards, but some country in the Middle East built on Islamic
or ancient cultural traditions has built their community on it’s own backround and thus see’s those things as acceptable behavior.
To understand the issues that the Islamic Nations have with the Western Culture and in reverse how other Nations have issues with Islam imposing itself on them,
is many times based on different perspectives that those nations and conflicting cultures
do not accept nor understand as fact of life involving folkways.
Therefore they impose their values and traditions on those who have other perspectives and cultural reasons for their behavior.
Just as the secular society and minority religions hate the church forcing it’s self appointed irrational moral and ethical codes within the Politics of their nation, so to do Muslims become frustrated at these same strong armed self appointed judges of society upon their own culture.
It would be more constructive to teach your reasoning for your cultures behavior and policies, then to force or expect other cultures to follow suit. Share your rational, rather then be pretentious and rude like how progressives treat society today with cancel culture, they don't rationally share their logic, they just pretentiously and hypocritically tell you what to do or else they'll throw a tantrum till they get their way (sort of the racketeering approach).

 

[JohnDB]

Morals are community norms. Valid morals are those which assist the community to survive/prosper. Different communities have different morals.

Exactly....

Now that is also usually the problem.
Once upon a time when television was just getting started the program "I Love Lucy" was very popular...but Lucy and Desi didn't have a bed they shared...two twin beds even though they were married was seen in their bedroom. Because to show otherwise was too racy for the day.
Today we seem to have trouble keeping every form of sexual perversion from being broadcast and all of the actors seem to have clothing issues with keeping them on.

Then you have the news. Where the common themes are shaming public figures for incompetence, negligence, greed or philandering or showing the depravity of the dregs of society. Or even just some good old fashioned fear peddling of how bad things are outside. News is always bad... never been good.

Programming is entertainment...the average guy being an everyday good guy always gets hurt, killed, destroyed financially or something horrible. When the truth is far from that. Life is not reflected in entertainment and neither are morals that need to be learned by society.

"Christians vs the Lions" was once a popular form of entertainment. So was Asheroth worship. (Really old fashioned sex and violence) today the blood is faked and so is the love in the sex.
Even though Shakespeare was famous for quoting passages out of the Geneva Bible many people considered him to be a heretic for producing theater. Elizabeth was rather uncommitted to making moral and religious determinations as it was rather a huge political fight...and fighting was unproductive in her estimation. She was more interested in keeping the UK together.

I did a commentary on this a long time ago and posted it in the forums years ago.
Back in the eras as you describe it was called
"Folkways of a Community"-
Characteristics of the society of folk & how it imposes on other regions who have their own norms.
The zest of the social community somewhat depends on population size and the amount of convenience born out of the many offered services and amount of entertainment available in that community.
Community life also somewhat revolves around the cultural backround and traditions of these
communities which give those communities it’s distinct characteristics.
This structure of behavior that’s set by the primary group practice is known as
‘Folkways’.
(Characteristics of the society of folk).

These folkways seem to determine and set perceptions of what is right from wrong as well as set standards for moral and ethical code and patterns within it’s own tolerance whether rational, scientific or practicle or not.
A community based on a Christian Primary group might find certain things intolerable by their set standards, but some country in the Middle East built on Islamic
or ancient cultural traditions has built their community on it’s own backround and thus see’s those things as acceptable behavior.
To understand the issues that the Islamic Nations have with the Western Culture and in reverse how other Nations have issues with Islam imposing itself on them,
is many times based on different perspectives that those nations and conflicting cultures
do not accept nor understand as fact of life involving folkways.
Therefore they impose their values and traditions on those who have other perspectives and cultural reasons for their behavior.
Just as the secular society and minority religions hate the church forcing it’s self appointed irrational moral and ethical codes within the Politics of their nation, so to do Muslims become frustrated at these same strong armed self appointed judges of society upon their own culture.
It would be more constructive to teach your reasoning for your cultures behavior and policies, then to force or expect other cultures to follow suit. Share your rational, rather then be pretentious and rude like how progressives treat society today with cancel culture, they don't rationally share their logic, they just pretentiously and hypocritically tell you what to do or else they'll throw a tantrum till they get their way (sort of the racketeering approach).

You can claim that Christians are forcing their morality on others but Moslems are doing the exact same thing...so are the Asians.
The Moslems are just upset over satellite television destroying Sharia Law...and there's a huge political divide between the younger generation and the "Old Guys" who know that they are fighting a losing battle.

This reason is why China's great cyber wall is larger than their famous one. Because some of the morals of the world at large are obvious as better than the ones their Government promotes. (Excluding Taiwan...they have no cyber wall)

Pork products are a staple for those in Western and Asian cultures...but verboten in Moslem cultures and Hinduism. Trying to tell a redneck that a ham sandwich or that bacon is a big no no to God really isn't going to work. Same thing as telling the Chinese people that smoking tobacco is a huge sin...but in Moslem cultures a hookah is a part of life.

Then we come to dress codes. That's another disaster zone of trouble. Only because of western society has several cultures adopted separate restrooms for men and women. They really haven't understood the taboo as often the attendant in them is the opposite sex. But they are trying to appease westernized norms. They really don't see what it's all about...so they do what they can. Try being alone in a public restroom in Brazil and see...it doesn't happen.

To me, morality has nothing to do with clothing and food. But most of the world believes it to be so. Am I wrong? (Not in my own mind) But I do try to fit into the culture I am in without offending them. It's rude to insist that they comply with my moral standards that truly don't harm me. And that can be eating a ham sandwich or not or using a public restroom with no doors and a woman on the toilet next to me or some sort of secure vault to take care of bodily functions within. (Forgot about chewing gum in the Middle East...it too is verboten)

Moral norms ARE mandated by Law...they are everywhere you go. Because you can't legislate an attitude.

 

[Bonzi]

There are inherent rights and wrong you "can't not know" -- unless you have some sort of genetic or psychological issue (e.g. you are a psychopath). Whether you admit to it or not, in your own mind/conscious you know.

 

[danielpalos]

I let my girlfriends keep their girlfriends; does that count?

 

[HaShev]

Morals are community norms. Valid morals are those which assist the community to survive/prosper. Different communities have different morals.

Exactly....

Now that is also usually the problem.
Once upon a time when television was just getting started the program "I Love Lucy" was very popular...but Lucy and Desi didn't have a bed they shared...two twin beds even though they were married was seen in their bedroom. Because to show otherwise was too racy for the day.
Today we seem to have trouble keeping every form of sexual perversion from being broadcast and all of the actors seem to have clothing issues with keeping them on.

Then you have the news. Where the common themes are shaming public figures for incompetence, negligence, greed or philandering or showing the depravity of the dregs of society. Or even just some good old fashioned fear peddling of how bad things are outside. News is always bad... never been good.

Programming is entertainment...the average guy being an everyday good guy always gets hurt, killed, destroyed financially or something horrible. When the truth is far from that. Life is not reflected in entertainment and neither are morals that need to be learned by society.

"Christians vs the Lions" was once a popular form of entertainment. So was Asheroth worship. (Really old fashioned sex and violence) today the blood is faked and so is the love in the sex.
Even though Shakespeare was famous for quoting passages out of the Geneva Bible many people considered him to be a heretic for producing theater. Elizabeth was rather uncommitted to making moral and religious determinations as it was rather a huge political fight...and fighting was unproductive in her estimation. She was more interested in keeping the UK together.

I did a commentary on this a long time ago and posted it in the forums years ago.
Back in the eras as you describe it was called
"Folkways of a Community"-
Characteristics of the society of folk & how it imposes on other regions who have their own norms.
The zest of the social community somewhat depends on population size and the amount of convenience born out of the many offered services and amount of entertainment available in that community.
Community life also somewhat revolves around the cultural backround and traditions of these
communities which give those communities it’s distinct characteristics.
This structure of behavior that’s set by the primary group practice is known as
‘Folkways’.
(Characteristics of the society of folk).

These folkways seem to determine and set perceptions of what is right from wrong as well as set standards for moral and ethical code and patterns within it’s own tolerance whether rational, scientific or practicle or not.
A community based on a Christian Primary group might find certain things intolerable by their set standards, but some country in the Middle East built on Islamic
or ancient cultural traditions has built their community on it’s own backround and thus see’s those things as acceptable behavior.
To understand the issues that the Islamic Nations have with the Western Culture and in reverse how other Nations have issues with Islam imposing itself on them,
is many times based on different perspectives that those nations and conflicting cultures
do not accept nor understand as fact of life involving folkways.
Therefore they impose their values and traditions on those who have other perspectives and cultural reasons for their behavior.
Just as the secular society and minority religions hate the church forcing it’s self appointed irrational moral and ethical codes within the Politics of their nation, so to do Muslims become frustrated at these same strong armed self appointed judges of society upon their own culture.
It would be more constructive to teach your reasoning for your cultures behavior and policies, then to force or expect other cultures to follow suit. Share your rational, rather then be pretentious and rude like how progressives treat society today with cancel culture, they don't rationally share their logic, they just pretentiously and hypocritically tell you what to do or else they'll throw a tantrum till they get their way (sort of the racketeering approach).

You can claim that Christians are forcing their morality on others but Moslems are doing the exact same thing...so are the Asians.
The Moslems are just upset over satellite television destroying Sharia Law...and there's a huge political divide between the younger generation and the "Old Guys" who know that they are fighting a losing battle.

This reason is why China's great cyber wall is larger than their famous one. Because some of the morals of the world at large are obvious as better than the ones their Government promotes. (Excluding Taiwan...they have no cyber wall)

Pork products are a staple for those in Western and Asian cultures...but verboten in Moslem cultures and Hinduism. Trying to tell a redneck that a ham sandwich or that bacon is a big no no to God really isn't going to work. Same thing as telling the Chinese people that smoking tobacco is a huge sin...but in Moslem cultures a hookah is a part of life.

Then we come to dress codes. That's another disaster zone of trouble. Only because of western society has several cultures adopted separate restrooms for men and women. They really haven't understood the taboo as often the attendant in them is the opposite sex. But they are trying to appease westernized norms. They really don't see what it's all about...so they do what they can. Try being alone in a public restroom in Brazil and see...it doesn't happen.

To me, morality has nothing to do with clothing and food. But most of the world believes it to be so. Am I wrong? (Not in my own mind) But I do try to fit into the culture I am in without offending them. It's rude to insist that they comply with my moral standards that truly don't harm me. And that can be eating a ham sandwich or not or using a public restroom with no doors and a woman on the toilet next to me or some sort of secure vault to take care of bodily functions within. (Forgot about chewing gum in the Middle East...it too is verboten)

Moral norms ARE mandated by Law...they are everywhere you go. Because you can't legislate an attitude.

I did discuss the reverse, but also it implies impositions like Iran's restrictive imposing Moral code and radical behavior is forced upon more moderate Islamic Nations not just imposing on Europe and the West.

 

[JohnDB]

Morals are community norms. Valid morals are those which assist the community to survive/prosper. Different communities have different morals.

Exactly....

Now that is also usually the problem.
Once upon a time when television was just getting started the program "I Love Lucy" was very popular...but Lucy and Desi didn't have a bed they shared...two twin beds even though they were married was seen in their bedroom. Because to show otherwise was too racy for the day.
Today we seem to have trouble keeping every form of sexual perversion from being broadcast and all of the actors seem to have clothing issues with keeping them on.

Then you have the news. Where the common themes are shaming public figures for incompetence, negligence, greed or philandering or showing the depravity of the dregs of society. Or even just some good old fashioned fear peddling of how bad things are outside. News is always bad... never been good.

Programming is entertainment...the average guy being an everyday good guy always gets hurt, killed, destroyed financially or something horrible. When the truth is far from that. Life is not reflected in entertainment and neither are morals that need to be learned by society.

"Christians vs the Lions" was once a popular form of entertainment. So was Asheroth worship. (Really old fashioned sex and violence) today the blood is faked and so is the love in the sex.
Even though Shakespeare was famous for quoting passages out of the Geneva Bible many people considered him to be a heretic for producing theater. Elizabeth was rather uncommitted to making moral and religious determinations as it was rather a huge political fight...and fighting was unproductive in her estimation. She was more interested in keeping the UK together.

I did a commentary on this a long time ago and posted it in the forums years ago.
Back in the eras as you describe it was called
"Folkways of a Community"-
Characteristics of the society of folk & how it imposes on other regions who have their own norms.
The zest of the social community somewhat depends on population size and the amount of convenience born out of the many offered services and amount of entertainment available in that community.
Community life also somewhat revolves around the cultural backround and traditions of these
communities which give those communities it’s distinct characteristics.
This structure of behavior that’s set by the primary group practice is known as
‘Folkways’.
(Characteristics of the society of folk).

These folkways seem to determine and set perceptions of what is right from wrong as well as set standards for moral and ethical code and patterns within it’s own tolerance whether rational, scientific or practicle or not.
A community based on a Christian Primary group might find certain things intolerable by their set standards, but some country in the Middle East built on Islamic
or ancient cultural traditions has built their community on it’s own backround and thus see’s those things as acceptable behavior.
To understand the issues that the Islamic Nations have with the Western Culture and in reverse how other Nations have issues with Islam imposing itself on them,
is many times based on different perspectives that those nations and conflicting cultures
do not accept nor understand as fact of life involving folkways.
Therefore they impose their values and traditions on those who have other perspectives and cultural reasons for their behavior.
Just as the secular society and minority religions hate the church forcing it’s self appointed irrational moral and ethical codes within the Politics of their nation, so to do Muslims become frustrated at these same strong armed self appointed judges of society upon their own culture.
It would be more constructive to teach your reasoning for your cultures behavior and policies, then to force or expect other cultures to follow suit. Share your rational, rather then be pretentious and rude like how progressives treat society today with cancel culture, they don't rationally share their logic, they just pretentiously and hypocritically tell you what to do or else they'll throw a tantrum till they get their way (sort of the racketeering approach).

You can claim that Christians are forcing their morality on others but Moslems are doing the exact same thing...so are the Asians.
The Moslems are just upset over satellite television destroying Sharia Law...and there's a huge political divide between the younger generation and the "Old Guys" who know that they are fighting a losing battle.

This reason is why China's great cyber wall is larger than their famous one. Because some of the morals of the world at large are obvious as better than the ones their Government promotes. (Excluding Taiwan...they have no cyber wall)

Pork products are a staple for those in Western and Asian cultures...but verboten in Moslem cultures and Hinduism. Trying to tell a redneck that a ham sandwich or that bacon is a big no no to God really isn't going to work. Same thing as telling the Chinese people that smoking tobacco is a huge sin...but in Moslem cultures a hookah is a part of life.

Then we come to dress codes. That's another disaster zone of trouble. Only because of western society has several cultures adopted separate restrooms for men and women. They really haven't understood the taboo as often the attendant in them is the opposite sex. But they are trying to appease westernized norms. They really don't see what it's all about...so they do what they can. Try being alone in a public restroom in Brazil and see...it doesn't happen.

To me, morality has nothing to do with clothing and food. But most of the world believes it to be so. Am I wrong? (Not in my own mind) But I do try to fit into the culture I am in without offending them. It's rude to insist that they comply with my moral standards that truly don't harm me. And that can be eating a ham sandwich or not or using a public restroom with no doors and a woman on the toilet next to me or some sort of secure vault to take care of bodily functions within. (Forgot about chewing gum in the Middle East...it too is verboten)

Moral norms ARE mandated by Law...they are everywhere you go. Because you can't legislate an attitude.

I did discuss the reverse, but also it implies impositions like Iran's restrictive imposing Moral code and radical behavior is forced upon more moderate Islamic Nations not just imposing on Europe and the West.

yeah...but I said it better...ROFL

 

[danielpalos]

...should any guy say No, when a woman comes up to us and proclaims it is straight pride month and she wants bragging rights?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Are moral vales an instinctive act or one taught?
This thread was created to explore human’s moral values taught through fiction and nonfiction examples. It is the intent to express moral values that is the core of our moral values today.
The architectural form of theatre in Rome , theatrical practice and performance took place in Rome has been linked back even further to the 4th century B.C.E.,
View attachment 500066

Romans favored entertainment and performance over tragedy and drama, displaying a more modern form of theatre that is still used in contemporary times.
Theatre of ancient Rome - Wikipedia
William Shakespeare was an English playwright, poet, and actor, widely regarded as the greatest writer in the English language and the world's greatest dramatist. He is often called England's national poet
View attachment 500067
COMEDIES
All's Well That Ends Well (1602), As You Like It (1599), Comedy of Errors (1589), Love's Labour's Lost (1594), Winter's Tale (1610)
Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra was a Spanish writer widely regarded as the greatest writer in the Spanish language and one of the world's pre-eminent novelists. He is best known for his novel Don Quixote, a work often cited as both the first modern novel and one of the pinnacles of world literature. Wikipedia

View attachment 500068 View attachment 500069 View attachment 500070
The point I am trying to make is that humans are the only animals that that can create live scenes where actors play the part of good and bad individuals for the audience to see and judge. It is a learning experience.
Now we have movies and TV shows that do the same thing. When your child is watching a TV show, your child is learning moral values. Morality is the oldest known value that has been expressed throughout the history of humanity.
The only reason I am bringing this up is because I was doubting mankind’s future. I was beginning to believe the dark side was winning and the human race was heading towards self-destruction. Now after reviewing the history of the human race I can say we are not doomed, morality is the dominant human consciousness that prevails over all other motives for our existence on this planet. I am now sure that the aliens that planted our seed on this planet are looking at us with favor.

I believe the world is unfolding as it should; how about you?.

-

Both.

 

[watchingfromafar]