Are Illegal Aliens Costing America, Or Not?

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Charter Member
May 8, 2004
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I won't name names, but I have a board member PM'ing me with their opinion that America should "open" it's borders, and that it wouldn't make any difference. That America is "better off" with all it's illegals here. I couldn't disagree more.

To start...

New Study Finds That Illegal Immigration Costs Arizona $1.3 Billion a Year

June 3, 2004

Education, Health Care, Incarceration Costs are Increasing Rapidly
(June 3, 2004—Washington, DC) Illegal immigration now costs Arizona taxpayers about $1.3 billion annually, finds a new report, "The Costs of Illegal Immigration to Arizonans," published by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR). The report shows a nearly nine-fold increase in the costs of illegal immigration during the past decade, and that the burden on the state's taxpayers continues to grow rapidly. The average native-born-headed household in Arizona now bears more than $700 a year in additional costs due to mass illegal immigration to the state, finds the report.

The cost of providing education to illegal aliens and their children leads the way at $810 million a year. Health care for illegal immigrants, which threatens to bankrupt many Arizona hospitals and clinics, adds $400 million a year to the tab, while incarcerating illegal aliens costs Arizona taxpayers $80 million annually. Only a small fraction of these and other costs incurred by the state are offset by an estimated $257 million a year that illegal aliens pay in taxes to the state. The costs are even higher than the total of these three cost areas, because there are a number of other expensive benefits received by illegal aliens that are not included in this calculation.

"Perhaps even more astounding than the $1.3 billion a year that uncontrolled illegal immigration is costing Arizona is the rate at which those costs are increasing," commented Jack Martin, the author of the report. "Between 1996 and 2000, the illegal alien population of Arizona grew by a staggering 150 percent, and that rate of increase has not abated. Unless the federal government takes steps to clamp down on the massive influx of new illegal aliens, and state officials begin cooperating with immigration enforcement authorities, illegal immigration will do to Arizona what it has already done to California's state budget."

"While Arizona has become the new illegal gateway to America, and Arizonans have been forced to bear the staggering costs of our failed immigration policy, the state's elected representatives in Washington have, ironically, been at the forefront of efforts to grant amnesty to millions of illegal aliens and their families," Martin continued. "The $1.3 billion a year they are now paying will be just a taste of what is to come if we do not begin enforcing our immigration laws, or, worse yet, if we further encourage illegal immigration by enacting amnesty proposals.

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=media_mediaf7cb

and...

The Truth About Employment-Based Immigration

Although big business likes to claim that our present high level of immigration is necessary for its survival and the robustness of our economy, many Americans find the idea that American know-how and ingenuity must be imported from abroad is absurd, and a brief look at the facts about what business is actually doing with its part of the immigration system backs them up.

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_researchc473
 
Federation for American Immigration Reform=fairus.org

I really do not like groups that don't tell us 'who we are' such as persons behind this group. :rolleyes: They just post what they want and ask for contributions. Wouldn't be surprised if Soros was behind it.
 
Kathianne said:
Federation for American Immigration Reform=fairus.org

I really do not like groups that don't tell us 'who we are' such as persons behind this group. :rolleyes: They just post what they want and ask for contributions. Wouldn't be surprised if Soros was behind it.

I wouldn't know about that. I was just looking for stats.

But I see the person that was so vehement about open borders, and that illegal immigrants are good for America, must have gotten lost. Here's their chance, and it stands empty.
 
Believe it or not, I am all for opening the borders.

But to do that they must be closed first and security put in place to prevent crossings except at the designated points.

Then we have to ramp up the tech to positively ID each person and compare to the CIA, FBI, NSA, Interpol DATABASES to make sure we are not letting in a known terrorist or other criminal.

At that point they are classified as to intent and the duration of stay established.
 
pegwinn said:
Believe it or not, I am all for opening the borders.

But to do that they must be closed first and security put in place to prevent crossings except at the designated points.

Then we have to ramp up the tech to positively ID each person and compare to the CIA, FBI, NSA, Interpol DATABASES to make sure we are not letting in a known terrorist or other criminal.

At that point they are classified as to intent and the duration of stay established.

I'm all for immigration, but not 'open immigration.' We are way past the point that any and all are welcome.
 
pegwinn said:
Believe it or not, I am all for opening the borders.

But to do that they must be closed first and security put in place to prevent crossings except at the designated points.

Then we have to ramp up the tech to positively ID each person and compare to the CIA, FBI, NSA, Interpol DATABASES to make sure we are not letting in a known terrorist or other criminal.

At that point they are classified as to intent and the duration of stay established.

Well, you say what you'd like to see, but not why.

"WHY" do you want to see open borders?
 
Kathianne said:
I'm all for immigration, but not 'open immigration.' We are way past the point that any and all are welcome.

Once we have verified that we are not letting in known criminals, then welcome to America. This is a land of immigrants, but we need to protect who's already here first. I surely don't believe we should just tear down the fences and sell em for scrap metal.
 
Kathianne said:
I'm all for immigration, but not 'open immigration.' We are way past the point that any and all are welcome.

And I completely agree with that Kathy. At this point, this country doesn't "need" any more people. "Legal" immigration is far enough of a flow of new people all by itself.
 
pegwinn said:
Once we have verified that we are not letting in known criminals, then welcome to America. This is a land of immigrants, but we need to protect who's already here first. I surely don't believe we should just tear down the fences and sell em for scrap metal.

Well I guess we disagree on that. I don't think we can afford or should take 'all who wish to come here, but aren't criminals.' Just don't have the resources for the illiterate, poor, etc. There have always been exceptions made for politically/religiously persecuted. (With the serious exception of the Jews in WWII, we've been pretty good about that.)
 
Pale Rider said:
Well, you say what you'd like to see, but not why.

"WHY" do you want to see open borders?

First thing you noticed in my post was establishing security right? Good.
Next thing you noticed in my post was verification of identity right? Good.

What I actually said was "opening the borders". By that I mean eliminating quotas. As said, once we verify we are not letting in the criminal scum, then it's Welcome to America.

That was background, now the "Why". See I can get to a point LOL.

I support eliminating immigration quotas because that is one of the things that America is all about. Unless you are a pure blooded Indian then you are the product of an immigrant family.

Elsewhere I have posted about things we should require from immigrants to ensure that we are getting "our kind" of people as citizens.

HTH
 
Kathianne said:
Well I guess we disagree on that. I don't think we can afford or should take 'all who wish to come here, but aren't criminals.' Just don't have the resources for the illiterate, poor, etc. There have always been exceptions made for politically/religiously persecuted. (With the serious exception of the Jews in WWII, we've been pretty good about that.)

Tis alright to disagree. Bring me your tired, huddled, etc (badly mangled quote). So long as they are hardworking, are willing and able to learn English and assimilate into American culture whats the problem?
 
pegwinn said:
Tis alright to disagree. Bring me your tired, huddled, etc (badly mangled quote). So long as they are hardworking, are willing and able to learn English and assimilate into American culture whats the problem?

The level of education necessary for most to get by nowadays. Balkanization that has been going on here for at least the past 40 years or so. Global economy just argues against allowing all the 'destitute' to migrate to this 'land of opportunity.'

As I said previously, I haven't a problem with legal immigration, but I'm of the opinion there must be limits put on.
 
Kathianne said:
The level of education necessary for most to get by nowadays. Balkanization that has been going on here for at least the past 40 years or so. Global economy just argues against allowing all the 'destitute' to migrate to this 'land of opportunity.'

As I said previously, I haven't a problem with legal immigration, but I'm of the opinion there must be limits put on.

I understand your stance intellectually. But isn't it a bit of a double standard? After all there is no requirement to be educated. There is a lot of stupid native born Americans running around. Some of them are educated as well.

I also doubt that educated Belgians for example are gonna come to America. Immigration is by it's very nature the province of someone looking for a better life. I would prefer to focus on the character of those coming in to ensure the ones we allow in will actually use the opportunity.
 
pegwinn said:
Tis alright to disagree. Bring me your tired, huddled, etc (badly mangled quote). So long as they are hardworking, are willing and able to learn English and assimilate into American culture whats the problem?



quotas have always been part of any countries immigration policy...to allow anyone regardless of what they can contribute is pollyanna to say the least..
Illegal immigration should be stopped now send all illegals back home via cutting off benefits and jobs they are not entitled to....as it now stands big business are the only ones benefitting from illegal low wage emplyees...they are shipping out of country most if not all high tech well paying jobs and importing low wage jobs...of which there are not enough to employee American citizens or legal immigrants....This is the problem!
 
pegwinn said:
I understand your stance intellectually. But isn't it a bit of a double standard? After all there is no requirement to be educated. There is a lot of stupid native born Americans running around. Some of them are educated as well.

I also doubt that educated Belgians for example are gonna come to America. Immigration is by it's very nature the province of someone looking for a better life. I would prefer to focus on the character of those coming in to ensure the ones we allow in will actually use the opportunity.

Not tons of Belgians, for sure. :eek: It's obvious that not all immigrants are college educated, etc. That is the reason for the lotteries on green cards. Now, you can skip the lottery, IF you have a skill that is in demand here. Note all the medical personelle from foreign countries. It's gotta be a mix, not just poor. Yet, still enough to let some of the 'tired, poor...' in.
 
Kathianne said:
Federation for American Immigration Reform=fairus.org

I really do not like groups that don't tell us 'who we are' such as persons behind this group. :rolleyes: They just post what they want and ask for contributions. Wouldn't be surprised if Soros was behind it.


We need to secure our borders which I think goes without question. The FEMA Mexican workers I've seen are doing very hard work very well that most of us wouldn't do. They are also charging much less than locals which are gauging. God Bels Mexico.
 
rcajun90 said:
We need to secure our borders which I think goes without question. The FEMA Mexican workers I've seen are doing very hard work very well that most of us wouldn't do. They are also charging much less than locals which are gauging. God Bels Mexico.

Where are all of the welfare receivers, why aren't THEY rebuilding THEIR city?
Oh that's right New Orleans has successfully rid themselves of these useless jerks and dispersed them around the country to milk money out of them, lucky us.
Mexico sucks and FEMA has no right to use these people that will take our tax dollars to do substandard work and send it to Mexico!
Let natural selection do it's part. New Orleans shouldn't be saved by outside help, if it's own residents don't want to do it, let it die.
 
archangel said:
quotas have always been part of any countries immigration policy...to allow anyone regardless of what they can contribute is pollyanna to say the least.. What was the quota in 1876 or 1789? Quotas are a new thing on an historical scale.

Illegal immigration should be stopped now I totally agree. If you are breaking the law you should not be here. send all illegals back home via cutting off benefits and jobs they are not entitled to.... This doesn't make sense the way you phrased it. So, how would you accomplish it? Do you have a procedure in mind?

as it now stands big business are the only ones benefitting from illegal low wage emplyees... How can we prove that they are knowingly hiring illegals? That would go a ways in at least slowing the problem don't you think?

they are shipping out of country most if not all high tech well paying jobs and importing low wage jobs... Who's the cause of this problem? Big business for wanting to keep costs down? American workers who are "too good" to do the work for anything less than a heavenly wage? Or the workers in other countries whose greed hasn't surpassed thier work ethic? Tough Call. Especially if you are trying to be honest.

of which there are not enough to employee American citizens or legal immigrants.... I disagree. There are a plenty of american citizens and legal immigrants. Problem is that the greed factor has overtaken the work ethic. Meaning, they'd rather draw a check from the local or state than break a sweat in the fields.


This is the problem! Well at least a part of it anyway
*
 
pegwinn said:



you sure questioned my comments...however cutting benefits to illegals could be accomplished with the swipe of a pen local and federal...say laws requiring anyone receiving Medicaid,food stamps cash payments via welfare and schooling must be a legal resident...no more draining SSA coffers to supplement state welfare programs for illegals...

As for jobs anyone or any company who hires a illegal worker should be fined heavely...don't ask how is this possible...because I do not buy this argument put forward by companies who state... well we checked their SS card and it looked legitment...not buying this argument as the age of the PC has made it very easy to verify just about anyones past and legal status!

Also a law requiring welfare receipients to accept minimum wage jobs to supplement their benefits...and limit their benefits to medicaid and food stamps eliminate the cash benefit while they are working.


Surely you would agree this would be a good start...and taking away benefits to illegals would have them scrambling for home...would not cost a dime to 'export'(pun) them!
 
Kathianne said:
Well I guess we disagree on that. I don't think we can afford or should take 'all who wish to come here, but aren't criminals.' Just don't have the resources for the illiterate, poor, etc. There have always been exceptions made for politically/religiously persecuted. (With the serious exception of the Jews in WWII, we've been pretty good about that.)
next thing were going to see is that they want the US to buy them tickets to come here to loaf off of us.
 

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