Are gonna allow these NEOCONS hawks to have their way again?

Dutch

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Sep 11, 2009
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You would think they would learn but they are at it again.

"Earlier this month, the Foreign Policy Initiative, a think tank founded by William Kristol and other well-known hawks, gathered signatures for an open letter to congressional leaders. The letter did not explicitly endorse the sanctions bill currently awaiting a vote in the Senate, but it said, “Congress has a chance to play an important role in making clear the consequences of Iranian violations of the interim nuclear deal” and “in clarifying expectations with respect to future nuclear talks with Tehran,” which is exactly what the new sanctions bill does. On one particular point, the letter was emphatic: Sanctions can help diplomacy succeed. “Congressional action,” it read, “can thus substantially improve the prospect that Iran’s growing nuclear threat will be verifiably and irreversibly halted without the use of force.” (The italics are mine).

The letter’s signatories comprise a who’s who of Iran hawks. Reviewing all their past statements was too cumbersome, so I asked two talented college students—Rachel Cohen and Zachary Parker—to investigate a few of the signers. Is it really a “canard” that some of the people now claiming sanctions can help avert war actually want war? What follows are only a few of the clearest answers to that question:

•Joshua Muravchik, formerly of the American Enterprise Institute: “We must bomb Iran.”
•Matthew Kroenig, Georgetown University: “Time to Attack Iran.”
•Max Boot, Council on Foreign Relations: “The only credible option for significantly delaying the Iranian nuclear program would be a bombing campaign.”
•Eliot Cohen, Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies: “The choices are now what they ever were: an American or an Israeli strike, which would probably cause a substantial war, or living in a world with Iranian nuclear weapons, which may also result in war, perhaps nuclear, over a longer period of time. Understandably, the U.S. government has hoped for a middle course of sanctions, negotiations and bargaining that would remove the problem without the ugly consequences. This is self-delusion.”
•Cliff May, Foundation for Defense of Democracies: “Iran’s rulers are not open to engagement no matter what mix of carrots and sticks are offered.” (After I quoted May on the radio last week, he emailed to explain that he considers “diplomacy” and “engagement” to be different things).
•Abe Greenwald, Commentary: “The mullahs in Tehran are not open to compromise, and cannot be made any more pliable by the impositions of a stricter sanctions regime. Any attempts at diplomacy or institution of sanctions are, from here on out, aimed at building an evidentiary case that every non-military option will have been exhausted. Once that case can be made, Obama will either give the order to bomb Iran or let the Khomeinist regime in Tehran assert complete regional hegemony. There will not be, nor has there ever been, a third option.”
•And, finally, Kristol himself: “It’s long since been time for the United States to speak to this regime in the language it understands—force…So we can stop talking. Instead, we can follow the rat lines in Iraq and Afghanistan back to their sources, and destroy them. We can strike at the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), and weaken them. And we can hit the regime’s nuclear weapons program, and set it back.”



The Hawks' Hypocrisy on the Iran Sanctions Bill - Peter Beinart - The Atlantic
 
Neocon hawks....hmmm....you do realize there are more active American military operations in more countries today than since WWII?
I didn't know the Obama administration was a NEOCON
 
Iran's been a concern for quite a while now. But I can't help but notice it only comes up before elections so I question the validity of the worries. We thought the Nazis were working on an atomic bomb so rushed ourselves into making it first. Only afterwords did we realize they never anywhere close to it. So I wonder if that's what's going on here again with Iran.

War's a big business. People pushing for war are invariably benefitting from them. They and their children aren't gonna have to fight it, the US doesn't have to worry abou tanks or artillery or rockets raining down on our territory so going to war is something we're usually ok with. Our best defense remains the Atlantic and Pacific oceans. If we had to worry about retaliation like Israel does we might figure differently.

But the Iranian problem is unique. They're smart enough to not place all their nuclear research facilities in one, easily bombed location. They have over 100 such siters, many of which are so far underground nothing short of tactical nuclear weapons can touch them. So proposing we bomb our way to a solution reveals an ignorance of the facts. If we coulda bombed our way to Iranian compliance, why didn't we with North Korea or Pakistan?

Bombing doesn't work. Diplomacy does.
 
Neocon hawks....hmmm....you do realize there are more active American military operations in more countries today than since WWII?
I didn't know the Obama administration was a NEOCON

Obama certainly not for Bombing Iran. Bill Kristol is a Neocon and was wrong about the Iraq war as he is wrong about bombing Iran.
 
Interestingly, the letter pushed congress to act on the sanctions, not on conducting hot war. So the point here again is probably one that teeters between conspiracy theory and the rubber room.
 
Interestingly, the letter pushed congress to act on the sanctions, not on conducting hot war. So the point here again is probably one that teeters between conspiracy theory and the rubber room.

•And, finally, Kristol himself: “It’s long since been time for the United States to speak to this regime in the language it understands—force…So we can stop talking. Instead, we can follow the rat lines in Iraq and Afghanistan back to their sources, and destroy them. We can strike at the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), and weaken them. And we can hit the regime’s nuclear weapons program, and set it back.”
 
Obama certainly not for Bombing Iran.

We know that. He WANTS Iran to have the bomb. How else can you destabilize that region anymore than it already is?

He drew everybody out of Iraq - it's destabilized now
He's drawing everybody out of Afghanistan and it will become even more destabilized.
His policy over Syria has been a global joke and guess what - Syria is wayyy destabilized.

Only thing left to do is let Iran get the bomb for the entire middle east to erupt in an all out shooting war.

Well played obamy, well played sir.

Fucking idiot.
 
That was in the letter? What year was that from? The same regime?

You know, I'm as anti-war as it gets, but stooping to the same type of propaganda used by those who like war, do not help stop it. If anything, it cinfuses the issue more.
 
Interestingly, the letter pushed congress to act on the sanctions, not on conducting hot war. So the point here again is probably one that teeters between conspiracy theory and the rubber room.

The most revealing sentence is Greenwald’s: “Any attempts at diplomacy or institution of sanctions are, from here on out, aimed at building an evidentiary case that every non-military option will have been exhausted.” There are certainly sanctions supporters who genuinely believe—despite the protestations of U.S. intelligence—that the bill currently in the Senate will help facilitate a nuclear deal. But just as clearly, there are others, like Kristol, who see the new sanctions bill, with its patently unrealistic demands for what a final deal would contain, as a way to torpedo talks while blaming Iran for their failure. As a way to build “an evidentiary case that every non-military option will have been exhausted.”

For them to justify new sanctions as a means of settling the Iranian nuclear dispute “without the use of force” is patently dishonest. And it’s neither a “canard” nor a “slander” to point that out.


The Hawks' Hypocrisy on the Iran Sanctions Bill - Peter Beinart - The Atlantic
 
Obama certainly not for Bombing Iran.

We know that. He WANTS Iran to have the bomb. How else can you destabilize that region anymore than it already is?

He drew everybody out of Iraq - it's destabilized now
He's drawing everybody out of Afghanistan and it will become even more destabilized.
His policy over Syria has been a global joke and guess what - Syria is wayyy destabilized.

Only thing left to do is let Iran get the bomb for the entire middle east to erupt in an all out shooting war.

Well played obamy, well played sir.

Fucking idiot.

Obama withdrew from Iraq on Bush timetable. He sought to keep troops there and could not get them immunity. So they withdrew. There are still contract mercs workign in Iraq.

He's drawing "everyone" out of Afghanistan for the same reasons we withdrew from Iraq. Lack of immunity for the troops. And, that hasnt been even solidified yet.

The policy over Syria? What policy? To aid rebels? Syria isn't our concern.

Iran isn't going to get "the bomb" because Israel is terrified of that prospect and will act alone if it needs to, to make sure that iran doesn't acquire Nuke capabilities. Israel will deal with Iran, we do not need to be involved.

Any other nonsense you want to bring to the discussion while we're at it?
 
Interestingly, the letter pushed congress to act on the sanctions, not on conducting hot war. So the point here again is probably one that teeters between conspiracy theory and the rubber room.

The most revealing sentence is Greenwald’s: “Any attempts at diplomacy or institution of sanctions are, from here on out, aimed at building an evidentiary case that every non-military option will have been exhausted.” There are certainly sanctions supporters who genuinely believe—despite the protestations of U.S. intelligence—that the bill currently in the Senate will help facilitate a nuclear deal. But just as clearly, there are others, like Kristol, who see the new sanctions bill, with its patently unrealistic demands for what a final deal would contain, as a way to torpedo talks while blaming Iran for their failure. As a way to build “an evidentiary case that every non-military option will have been exhausted.”

For them to justify new sanctions as a means of settling the Iranian nuclear dispute “without the use of force” is patently dishonest. And it’s neither a “canard” nor a “slander” to point that out.


The Hawks' Hypocrisy on the Iran Sanctions Bill - Peter Beinart - The Atlantic

So it teeters more to the conspiracy theory side is your answer on it. Duly noted.

As if everyone else, left or right, doesn't want war with Iran. How long has that been building up? How long have we supported Israel? Saudi Arabia?
 
Obama certainly not for Bombing Iran.

We know that. He WANTS Iran to have the bomb. How else can you destabilize that region anymore than it already is?

He drew everybody out of Iraq - it's destabilized now
He's drawing everybody out of Afghanistan and it will become even more destabilized.
His policy over Syria has been a global joke and guess what - Syria is wayyy destabilized.

Only thing left to do is let Iran get the bomb for the entire middle east to erupt in an all out shooting war.

Well played obamy, well played sir.

Fucking idiot.


So you want something like this?

team-america-world-police-movie-poster-2004-1020255162.jpg
 
Interestingly, the letter pushed congress to act on the sanctions, not on conducting hot war. So the point here again is probably one that teeters between conspiracy theory and the rubber room.

The most revealing sentence is Greenwald’s: “Any attempts at diplomacy or institution of sanctions are, from here on out, aimed at building an evidentiary case that every non-military option will have been exhausted.” There are certainly sanctions supporters who genuinely believe—despite the protestations of U.S. intelligence—that the bill currently in the Senate will help facilitate a nuclear deal. But just as clearly, there are others, like Kristol, who see the new sanctions bill, with its patently unrealistic demands for what a final deal would contain, as a way to torpedo talks while blaming Iran for their failure. As a way to build “an evidentiary case that every non-military option will have been exhausted.”

For them to justify new sanctions as a means of settling the Iranian nuclear dispute “without the use of force” is patently dishonest. And it’s neither a “canard” nor a “slander” to point that out.


The Hawks' Hypocrisy on the Iran Sanctions Bill - Peter Beinart - The Atlantic

So it teeters more to the conspiracy theory side is your answer on it. Duly noted.

As if everyone else, left or right, doesn't want war with Iran. How long has that been building up? How long have we supported Israel? Saudi Arabia?

I just find that the same people pushing for more sanctions are among the biggest hawks out there. They want the sanctions to fail. Hey, I am for getting rid of the majority of our bases worldwide. I'm tired of the US subsidizing Europe's and the Far East's military forces.
 
Obama certainly not for Bombing Iran.

We know that. He WANTS Iran to have the bomb. How else can you destabilize that region anymore than it already is?

He drew everybody out of Iraq - it's destabilized now
He's drawing everybody out of Afghanistan and it will become even more destabilized.
His policy over Syria has been a global joke and guess what - Syria is wayyy destabilized.

Only thing left to do is let Iran get the bomb for the entire middle east to erupt in an all out shooting war.

Well played obamy, well played sir.

Fucking idiot.


So you want something like this?

team-america-world-police-movie-poster-2004-1020255162.jpg

Why don't you enlist, asswipe. God knows we need the fucking cannon fodder in any (pick one) of Obama's many illegal wars.
 
Obama withdrew from Iraq on Bush timetable. He sought to keep troops there and could not get them immunity. So they withdrew. There are still contract mercs workign in Iraq.

We never should have left Iraq period. Now, they want us back did you read that? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that you don't conquer a nation just to walk away from it. Did we do that with Japan? How about Germany? Hmmmm? See how Germany and Japan turned out? See how the middle east is turning out? See any difference chump?

He's drawing "everyone" out of Afghanistan for the same reasons we withdrew from Iraq. Lack of immunity for the troops. And, that hasnt been even solidified yet.

We should not leave Afghanistan period. After the Taliban and Al Qaeda take back over Afghans too will want us back. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that you don't conquer a nation just to walk away from it. Did we do that with Japan? How about Germany? Hmmmm? See how Germany and Japan turned out? See how the middle east is turning out? See any difference chump?

The policy over Syria? What policy? To aid rebels? Syria isn't our concern.

You just said it yourself brainiac. "What policy"? Hey, maybe the policy where you send aircraft carriers in the Mediterranean, park them and then say, "Oh just kidding I guess." or the one where you make a red line, then say you didn't make a red line that the world made the red line and then just forget all about the red line period. "What policy" indeed!

Iran isn't going to get "the bomb" because Israel is terrified of that prospect and will act alone if it needs to, to make sure that iran doesn't acquire Nuke capabilities. Israel will deal with Iran, we do not need to be involved.

How will Israel deal with Iran alone? Delta whatever above already said, and correctly enough that bombing Iran with conventional weapons won't work. Are you saying they will? Are you saying that Israel will nuke Iran? oh right that won't destabilize much will it. :lol:

Any other nonsense you want to bring to the discussion while we're at it?

You have a mind like a shut steel trap pal. :clap2:
 
We know that. He WANTS Iran to have the bomb. How else can you destabilize that region anymore than it already is?

He drew everybody out of Iraq - it's destabilized now
He's drawing everybody out of Afghanistan and it will become even more destabilized.
His policy over Syria has been a global joke and guess what - Syria is wayyy destabilized.

Only thing left to do is let Iran get the bomb for the entire middle east to erupt in an all out shooting war.

Well played obamy, well played sir.

Fucking idiot.


So you want something like this?

team-america-world-police-movie-poster-2004-1020255162.jpg

Why don't you enlist, asswipe. God knows we need the fucking cannon fodder in any (pick one) of Obama's many illegal wars.

Been their done that. BTW that Tshirt in your avatar is hilarious.
 
As long as neo-cons are wanting to push sanctions and diplomacy, listen to them.

As soon as they talk hard power, put them in the corner with dunce hats on and not let them talk.
 
OK. LeadRoundNose, put on your dunce hat and go to the corner.

Sheesh.

No more Iraqs!
 

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