Are democrat "Catholics" as religious as Evangelicals regarding their politics?

[kyzr]

The short answer is NO, especially regarding "Catholics" like Chris Matthews and Tom Daschle who are unapologetically pro-choice.
Catholic Lite for Chris Matthews - Featured Today - Catholic Online
"Yet, if Mr. Matthews wants to advance his liberal agenda, then that is his right. But he does not have the right to present himself in a public forum as a "Catholic." Public figures who profess to be Catholics have a duty to bear witness to the authentic teachings of the Catholic Church. This also holds true especially if they have positions of prominence in the media or in government..."

"...An individual's religious beliefs goes to the very core of his moral character. The attempt by liberal Catholics to separate their private and public lives by insisting that the Church's teachings will not affect their positions on hot-button social issues such as abortion, euthanasia, and homosexuality shows that they do not take the basic tenets of their faith seriously. It is an attempt to bow to the fashions of our secular age, while still claiming membership in the church. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too."

So my challenge to democrat "Catholics" is to say that when the progressive liberals demand litmus tests regarding abortion, you can be pro-choice, but then you can't be Catholic. So when the progressives demonize only Evangelicals, and then let Catholics skate because they say they are pro-choice, that's incorrect. The progressives should say that "Evangelicals and Catholics" have similar "unacceptable/intolerant" views and are unwelcome as democrats.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The short answer is NO, especially regarding "Catholics" like Chris Matthews and Tom Daschle who are unapologetically pro-choice.
Catholic Lite for Chris Matthews - Featured Today - Catholic Online
"Yet, if Mr. Matthews wants to advance his liberal agenda, then that is his right. But he does not have the right to present himself in a public forum as a "Catholic." Public figures who profess to be Catholics have a duty to bear witness to the authentic teachings of the Catholic Church. This also holds true especially if they have positions of prominence in the media or in government..."

"...An individual's religious beliefs goes to the very core of his moral character. The attempt by liberal Catholics to separate their private and public lives by insisting that the Church's teachings will not affect their positions on hot-button social issues such as abortion, euthanasia, and homosexuality shows that they do not take the basic tenets of their faith seriously. It is an attempt to bow to the fashions of our secular age, while still claiming membership in the church. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too."

So my challenge to democrat "Catholics" is to say that when the progressive liberals demand litmus tests regarding abortion, you can be pro-choice, but then you can't be Catholic. So when the progressives demonize only Evangelicals, and then let Catholics skate because they say they are pro-choice, that's incorrect. The progressives should say that "Evangelicals and Catholics" have similar "unacceptable/intolerant" views and are unwelcome as democrats.

Yes, most conservatives are truly this stupid.

 

[g5000]

Exodus 20:14.

 

[g5000]

Romans 16:18.

For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Christ but of their own appetites; and by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting.

 

[g5000]

Matthew 7:5

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye;
and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

[CowboyTed]

The short answer is NO, especially regarding "Catholics" like Chris Matthews and Tom Daschle who are unapologetically pro-choice.
Catholic Lite for Chris Matthews - Featured Today - Catholic Online
"Yet, if Mr. Matthews wants to advance his liberal agenda, then that is his right. But he does not have the right to present himself in a public forum as a "Catholic." Public figures who profess to be Catholics have a duty to bear witness to the authentic teachings of the Catholic Church. This also holds true especially if they have positions of prominence in the media or in government..."

"...An individual's religious beliefs goes to the very core of his moral character. The attempt by liberal Catholics to separate their private and public lives by insisting that the Church's teachings will not affect their positions on hot-button social issues such as abortion, euthanasia, and homosexuality shows that they do not take the basic tenets of their faith seriously. It is an attempt to bow to the fashions of our secular age, while still claiming membership in the church. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too."

So my challenge to democrat "Catholics" is to say that when the progressive liberals demand litmus tests regarding abortion, you can be pro-choice, but then you can't be Catholic. So when the progressives demonize only Evangelicals, and then let Catholics skate because they say they are pro-choice, that's incorrect. The progressives should say that "Evangelicals and Catholics" have similar "unacceptable/intolerant" views and are unwelcome as democrats.

Chris Mathews is educated and knows that Catholic objection to Abortion was generated from politics of 1840s Europe and nothing God got involved in ...

Modern Look at Abortion Not Same as St. Augustine's

views of Saint Augustine, who said: ‘the law does not provide that the act (abortion) pertains to homicide, for there cannot yet be said to be a live soul in a body that lacks sensation.’” (Saint Augustine, On Exodus 21.22)

Saint Augustine is a super saint...

 

[g5000]

 

[g5000]

The short answer is NO, especially regarding "Catholics" like Chris Matthews and Tom Daschle who are unapologetically pro-choice.
Catholic Lite for Chris Matthews - Featured Today - Catholic Online
"Yet, if Mr. Matthews wants to advance his liberal agenda, then that is his right. But he does not have the right to present himself in a public forum as a "Catholic." Public figures who profess to be Catholics have a duty to bear witness to the authentic teachings of the Catholic Church. This also holds true especially if they have positions of prominence in the media or in government..."

"...An individual's religious beliefs goes to the very core of his moral character. The attempt by liberal Catholics to separate their private and public lives by insisting that the Church's teachings will not affect their positions on hot-button social issues such as abortion, euthanasia, and homosexuality shows that they do not take the basic tenets of their faith seriously. It is an attempt to bow to the fashions of our secular age, while still claiming membership in the church. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too."

So my challenge to democrat "Catholics" is to say that when the progressive liberals demand litmus tests regarding abortion, you can be pro-choice, but then you can't be Catholic. So when the progressives demonize only Evangelicals, and then let Catholics skate because they say they are pro-choice, that's incorrect. The progressives should say that "Evangelicals and Catholics" have similar "unacceptable/intolerant" views and are unwelcome as democrats.

Chris Mathews is educated and knows that Catholic objection to Abortion was generated from politics of 1840s Europe and nothing God got involved in ...

Modern Look at Abortion Not Same as St. Augustine's

views of Saint Augustine, who said: ‘the law does not provide that the act (abortion) pertains to homicide, for there cannot yet be said to be a live soul in a body that lacks sensation.’” (Saint Augustine, On Exodus 21.22)

Saint Augustine is a super saint...

ST. AUGUSTINE, TOO, OPPOSED ABORTION

 

[g5000]

The Democrats have always been the party of immorality.

Now Trump has made the GOP the same.

 

[MarcATL]

The short answer is NO, especially regarding "Catholics" like Chris Matthews and Tom Daschle who are unapologetically pro-choice.
Catholic Lite for Chris Matthews - Featured Today - Catholic Online
"Yet, if Mr. Matthews wants to advance his liberal agenda, then that is his right. But he does not have the right to present himself in a public forum as a "Catholic." Public figures who profess to be Catholics have a duty to bear witness to the authentic teachings of the Catholic Church. This also holds true especially if they have positions of prominence in the media or in government..."

"...An individual's religious beliefs goes to the very core of his moral character. The attempt by liberal Catholics to separate their private and public lives by insisting that the Church's teachings will not affect their positions on hot-button social issues such as abortion, euthanasia, and homosexuality shows that they do not take the basic tenets of their faith seriously. It is an attempt to bow to the fashions of our secular age, while still claiming membership in the church. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too."

So my challenge to democrat "Catholics" is to say that when the progressive liberals demand litmus tests regarding abortion, you can be pro-choice, but then you can't be Catholic. So when the progressives demonize only Evangelicals, and then let Catholics skate because they say they are pro-choice, that's incorrect. The progressives should say that "Evangelicals and Catholics" have similar "unacceptable/intolerant" views and are unwelcome as democrats.

True Christians wouldn't even be involved in politics, as it is of the world.

A Christian is a follower of Christ, a person dedicated to spreading the gospel. This is what it means.

That's no congruent in politics, in which the party that one belongs to is what your life is dedicated to.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[kyzr]

Matthew 7:5

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye;
and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Not sure what you're going for, but it's not what this thread is about. On another thread they were trying to beat up on Evangelicals. I was wondering why the democrat "Catholics" like Chris Matthews seem to be getting a pass from the progressives?
Shouldn't the democrats be opposing Catholics for intolerance the same as Evangelicals? Tulsi Gabbard takes offense at the grilling of Catholic nominees.
Tulsi Gabbard blasts Hawaii Democratic colleague over questioning of Catholic judicial nominee
Do Catholic votes matter to dems? Should the dems give the Catholics a pass on being pro-life? What happens when RBG "retires" and Trump nominates Amy Coney Barrett from Notre Dame to the USSC?

 

[22lcidw]

The short answer is NO, especially regarding "Catholics" like Chris Matthews and Tom Daschle who are unapologetically pro-choice.
Catholic Lite for Chris Matthews - Featured Today - Catholic Online
"Yet, if Mr. Matthews wants to advance his liberal agenda, then that is his right. But he does not have the right to present himself in a public forum as a "Catholic." Public figures who profess to be Catholics have a duty to bear witness to the authentic teachings of the Catholic Church. This also holds true especially if they have positions of prominence in the media or in government..."

"...An individual's religious beliefs goes to the very core of his moral character. The attempt by liberal Catholics to separate their private and public lives by insisting that the Church's teachings will not affect their positions on hot-button social issues such as abortion, euthanasia, and homosexuality shows that they do not take the basic tenets of their faith seriously. It is an attempt to bow to the fashions of our secular age, while still claiming membership in the church. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too."

So my challenge to democrat "Catholics" is to say that when the progressive liberals demand litmus tests regarding abortion, you can be pro-choice, but then you can't be Catholic. So when the progressives demonize only Evangelicals, and then let Catholics skate because they say they are pro-choice, that's incorrect. The progressives should say that "Evangelicals and Catholics" have similar "unacceptable/intolerant" views and are unwelcome as democrats.

True Christians wouldn't even be involved in politics, as it is of the world.

A Christian is a follower of Christ, a person dedicated to spreading the gospel. This is what it means.

That's no congruent in politics, in which the party that one belongs to is what your life is dedicated to.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

And yet you will kill them.

 

[Pogo]

The short answer is NO, especially regarding "Catholics" like Chris Matthews and Tom Daschle who are unapologetically pro-choice.
Catholic Lite for Chris Matthews - Featured Today - Catholic Online
"Yet, if Mr. Matthews wants to advance his liberal agenda, then that is his right. But he does not have the right to present himself in a public forum as a "Catholic." Public figures who profess to be Catholics have a duty to bear witness to the authentic teachings of the Catholic Church. This also holds true especially if they have positions of prominence in the media or in government..."

"...An individual's religious beliefs goes to the very core of his moral character. The attempt by liberal Catholics to separate their private and public lives by insisting that the Church's teachings will not affect their positions on hot-button social issues such as abortion, euthanasia, and homosexuality shows that they do not take the basic tenets of their faith seriously. It is an attempt to bow to the fashions of our secular age, while still claiming membership in the church. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too."

So my challenge to democrat "Catholics" is to say that when the progressive liberals demand litmus tests regarding abortion, you can be pro-choice, but then you can't be Catholic. So when the progressives demonize only Evangelicals, and then let Catholics skate because they say they are pro-choice, that's incorrect. The progressives should say that "Evangelicals and Catholics" have similar "unacceptable/intolerant" views and are unwelcome as democrats.

Yeah sorry, but politics doesn't work that way. If a Chris Matthews or a Tom Daschle ---- neither of whom are in politics ---- want to self-identify as "Catholic", they may do so, and if they choose not to identify their religious affiliations that's fine too. They're two separate things. And that's intentional.

Nice to know the Know Nothing Party and its bastard child the Klan still think they're relevant though. You keep tryin' with this "Papist" bullshit.

To quote Rump himself, never give up. If there's a wall, go through it, go around it, whatever you have to do.


Oh and by the way "Progressives" were here and gone a hundred years ago. You just missed 'em. It was back around the time your Klanners were running a smear campaign against Al Smith because he was a Catholic.

Oh and by the other way "Catholic Online", your link source? Infamous fake news dump. Fun fact: its founder is in prison right now.

 

[BlackFlag]

Matthew 7:5

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye;
and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Not sure what you're going for, but it's not what this thread is about. On another thread they were trying to beat up on Evangelicals. I was wondering why the democrat "Catholics" like Chris Matthews seem to be getting a pass from the progressives?
Shouldn't the democrats be opposing Catholics for intolerance the same as Evangelicals? Tulsi Gabbard takes offense at the grilling of Catholic nominees.
Tulsi Gabbard blasts Hawaii Democratic colleague over questioning of Catholic judicial nominee
Do Catholic votes matter to dems? Should the dems give the Catholics a pass on being pro-life? What happens when RBG "retires" and Trump nominates Amy Coney Barrett from Notre Dame to the USSC?

Probably not much. Roe V. Wade is settled. I suppose she could rule that the sick and those with pre-existing conditions must die. That would suck.

 

[g5000]

Matthew 7:5

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye;
and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Not sure what you're going for, but it's not what this thread is about. On another thread they were trying to beat up on Evangelicals. I was wondering why the democrat "Catholics" like Chris Matthews seem to be getting a pass from the progressives?
Shouldn't the democrats be opposing Catholics for intolerance the same as Evangelicals? Tulsi Gabbard takes offense at the grilling of Catholic nominees.
Tulsi Gabbard blasts Hawaii Democratic colleague over questioning of Catholic judicial nominee
Do Catholic votes matter to dems? Should the dems give the Catholics a pass on being pro-life? What happens when RBG "retires" and Trump nominates Amy Coney Barrett from Notre Dame to the USSC?

Quite a lot of Catholics are far left. Including the priests.

I had a Catholic aunt who was a marxist. She ran with the Berrigan brothers and hippies half her age, breaking into city halls and burning draft cards.

She once climbed over the fence at Andrews Air Force Base (where Air Force One is) to throw lamb's blood on the fighter jets there to protest Vietnam. A middle aged school teacher, for crying out loud. She and her little hippie friends were caught and arrested.

My dad got a call at 3 am from my aunt. She asked if he could come bail her out. My mom and dad are arch-conservatives. In future years, they took turns as the president of the American Conservative Union at the state level. They were personal friends with high up muckety mucks in the Reagan Administration. I once used their contacts to access someone in the Old Executive Office building.

And they were Catholics, too.

My dad slammed the phone down. Oh hell no I'm not bailing that commie out of jail!

His own sister.

Here's something you may not know. My dad told me this. The Catholic Church actually used to be quite liberal about abortion. One of the first pro-choice organizations in America was created by clergymen.

Ronald Reagan signed the first pro-choice legislation in America when he was the governor of California.

It's been a long weird trip, man.


And now we have Republicans actually cheering Trump for his adultery. Some have done so on this very forum. They don't care he's married three times, but don't bake a cake for a homo!

I fucking hate hypocrisy.

 

[kyzr]

The short answer is NO, especially regarding "Catholics" like Chris Matthews and Tom Daschle who are unapologetically pro-choice.
Catholic Lite for Chris Matthews - Featured Today - Catholic Online
"Yet, if Mr. Matthews wants to advance his liberal agenda, then that is his right. But he does not have the right to present himself in a public forum as a "Catholic." Public figures who profess to be Catholics have a duty to bear witness to the authentic teachings of the Catholic Church. This also holds true especially if they have positions of prominence in the media or in government..."

"...An individual's religious beliefs goes to the very core of his moral character. The attempt by liberal Catholics to separate their private and public lives by insisting that the Church's teachings will not affect their positions on hot-button social issues such as abortion, euthanasia, and homosexuality shows that they do not take the basic tenets of their faith seriously. It is an attempt to bow to the fashions of our secular age, while still claiming membership in the church. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too."

So my challenge to democrat "Catholics" is to say that when the progressive liberals demand litmus tests regarding abortion, you can be pro-choice, but then you can't be Catholic. So when the progressives demonize only Evangelicals, and then let Catholics skate because they say they are pro-choice, that's incorrect. The progressives should say that "Evangelicals and Catholics" have similar "unacceptable/intolerant" views and are unwelcome as democrats.

True Christians wouldn't even be involved in politics, as it is of the world.

A Christian is a follower of Christ, a person dedicated to spreading the gospel. This is what it means.

That's no congruent in politics, in which the party that one belongs to is what your life is dedicated to.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I can't believe that I'm trying to speak for Catholics/Christians, but here goes. Christians don't necessarily need to spread the gospel, they just need to believe it. There are several directives in Christianity, The Beatitudes, The Golden Rule, the Ten Commandments, etc.

Using business as an example, there are cut-throat businesses, and there are Christian Mutual Funds with a different philosophy. They both make money but with different philosophies. There is the "greed is good" style of Gordon Gekko, of slash & burn, and the "white knight" style of building jobs and companies.

In politics that could translate to pols that promote or oppose certain policies based on religious beliefs, and there are pols that are more secular. The voters can decide who they prefer. This thread is about people being honest and not duplicitous, i.e. saying they are "religious" and then opposing what their religion requires.

Is the democrat party so strict as to require adherence to policies, such as being pro-choice, or can they tolerate "loyal opposition" to some of their policies? Is there a place in the democrat party for Catholics and Evangelicals, or are they simply deemed intolerant and unwelcome.

 

[kyzr]

Matthew 7:5

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye;
and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Not sure what you're going for, but it's not what this thread is about. On another thread they were trying to beat up on Evangelicals. I was wondering why the democrat "Catholics" like Chris Matthews seem to be getting a pass from the progressives?
Shouldn't the democrats be opposing Catholics for intolerance the same as Evangelicals? Tulsi Gabbard takes offense at the grilling of Catholic nominees.
Tulsi Gabbard blasts Hawaii Democratic colleague over questioning of Catholic judicial nominee
Do Catholic votes matter to dems? Should the dems give the Catholics a pass on being pro-life? What happens when RBG "retires" and Trump nominates Amy Coney Barrett from Notre Dame to the USSC?

Quite a lot of Catholics are far left. Including the priests.

I had a Catholic aunt who was a marxist. She ran with the Berrigan brothers and hippies half her age, breaking into city halls and burning draft cards.

She once climbed over the fence at Andrews Air Force Base (where Air Force One is) to throw lamb's blood on the fighter jets there to protest Vietnam. A middle aged school teacher, for crying out loud. She and her little hippie friends were caught and arrested.

My dad got a call at 3 am from my aunt. She asked if he could come bail her out. My mom and dad are arch-conservatives. In future years, they took turns as the president of the American Conservative Union at the state level. They were personal friends with high up muckety mucks in the Reagan Administration. I once used their contacts to access someone in the Old Executive Office building.

And they were Catholics, too.

My dad slammed the phone down. Oh hell no I'm not bailing that commie out of jail!

His own sister.

Here's something you may not know. My dad told me this. The Catholic Church actually used to be quite liberal about abortion. One of the first pro-choice organizations in America was created by clergymen.

Ronald Reagan signed the first pro-choice legislation in America when he was the governor of California.

It's been a long weird trip, man.


And now we have Republicans actually cheering Trump for his adultery. Some have done so on this very forum. They don't care he's married three times, but don't bake a cake for a homo!

I fucking hate hypocrisy.

No one is "cheering" Trump for his adultery, like the pope said, "who are we to judge", he lives his life, we live ours. Trump always had beautiful women, from NFL cheerleaders, to Ivanka, to Marley, to Melania, to the rest he paid for. Luckily, none of them were interns, or we might have had a problem. He was married 3x, again, who are we to judge? None of them have anything bad to say about him that I heard.

 

[Timmy]

The short answer is NO, especially regarding "Catholics" like Chris Matthews and Tom Daschle who are unapologetically pro-choice.
Catholic Lite for Chris Matthews - Featured Today - Catholic Online
"Yet, if Mr. Matthews wants to advance his liberal agenda, then that is his right. But he does not have the right to present himself in a public forum as a "Catholic." Public figures who profess to be Catholics have a duty to bear witness to the authentic teachings of the Catholic Church. This also holds true especially if they have positions of prominence in the media or in government..."

"...An individual's religious beliefs goes to the very core of his moral character. The attempt by liberal Catholics to separate their private and public lives by insisting that the Church's teachings will not affect their positions on hot-button social issues such as abortion, euthanasia, and homosexuality shows that they do not take the basic tenets of their faith seriously. It is an attempt to bow to the fashions of our secular age, while still claiming membership in the church. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too."

So my challenge to democrat "Catholics" is to say that when the progressive liberals demand litmus tests regarding abortion, you can be pro-choice, but then you can't be Catholic. So when the progressives demonize only Evangelicals, and then let Catholics skate because they say they are pro-choice, that's incorrect. The progressives should say that "Evangelicals and Catholics" have similar "unacceptable/intolerant" views and are unwelcome as democrats.

How do you define “religious “? Going to church on Sunday’s ? No liberals don’t do that . They DO act more like Jesus than hate filled Republicans and phones gop “Christians “.

 

[kyzr]

The short answer is NO, especially regarding "Catholics" like Chris Matthews and Tom Daschle who are unapologetically pro-choice.
Catholic Lite for Chris Matthews - Featured Today - Catholic Online
"Yet, if Mr. Matthews wants to advance his liberal agenda, then that is his right. But he does not have the right to present himself in a public forum as a "Catholic." Public figures who profess to be Catholics have a duty to bear witness to the authentic teachings of the Catholic Church. This also holds true especially if they have positions of prominence in the media or in government..."

"...An individual's religious beliefs goes to the very core of his moral character. The attempt by liberal Catholics to separate their private and public lives by insisting that the Church's teachings will not affect their positions on hot-button social issues such as abortion, euthanasia, and homosexuality shows that they do not take the basic tenets of their faith seriously. It is an attempt to bow to the fashions of our secular age, while still claiming membership in the church. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too."

So my challenge to democrat "Catholics" is to say that when the progressive liberals demand litmus tests regarding abortion, you can be pro-choice, but then you can't be Catholic. So when the progressives demonize only Evangelicals, and then let Catholics skate because they say they are pro-choice, that's incorrect. The progressives should say that "Evangelicals and Catholics" have similar "unacceptable/intolerant" views and are unwelcome as democrats.

How do you define “religious “? Going to church on Sunday’s ? No liberals don’t do that . They DO act more like Jesus than hate filled Republicans and phones gop “Christians “.

Generally true that Christians give to charity and go to church, for argument's sake call that "religious".
That said, we don't want to get robbed by extreme taxes that go to people and policies that we object to.
We're more self-reliant and don't want to reward stupid lazy people for bad behavior.

 

[Timmy]

The short answer is NO, especially regarding "Catholics" like Chris Matthews and Tom Daschle who are unapologetically pro-choice.
Catholic Lite for Chris Matthews - Featured Today - Catholic Online
"Yet, if Mr. Matthews wants to advance his liberal agenda, then that is his right. But he does not have the right to present himself in a public forum as a "Catholic." Public figures who profess to be Catholics have a duty to bear witness to the authentic teachings of the Catholic Church. This also holds true especially if they have positions of prominence in the media or in government..."

"...An individual's religious beliefs goes to the very core of his moral character. The attempt by liberal Catholics to separate their private and public lives by insisting that the Church's teachings will not affect their positions on hot-button social issues such as abortion, euthanasia, and homosexuality shows that they do not take the basic tenets of their faith seriously. It is an attempt to bow to the fashions of our secular age, while still claiming membership in the church. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too."

So my challenge to democrat "Catholics" is to say that when the progressive liberals demand litmus tests regarding abortion, you can be pro-choice, but then you can't be Catholic. So when the progressives demonize only Evangelicals, and then let Catholics skate because they say they are pro-choice, that's incorrect. The progressives should say that "Evangelicals and Catholics" have similar "unacceptable/intolerant" views and are unwelcome as democrats.

How do you define “religious “? Going to church on Sunday’s ? No liberals don’t do that . They DO act more like Jesus than hate filled Republicans and phones gop “Christians “.

Generally true that Christians give to charity and go to church, for argument's sake call that "religious".
That said, we don't want to get robbed by extreme taxes that go to people and policies that we object to.
We're more self-reliant and don't want to reward stupid lazy people for bad behavior.

Giving to church is not giving to charity . Especially when many religions require tithing .