Arabic Writing Was Penned by a Christian

History did begin before Mohammad, christian use of Arabic 150 before Islam

Archaeologists Discover that Earliest Known Arabic Writing Was Penned by a Christian
www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/archaeologists-discover-earliest-known-arabic-writing-was-penned-christian-020778

21 March, 2016 - 23:51 Sam Bostrom
(Read the article on one page)

The oldest known Arabic writing found in Saudi Arabia, from ca. 470 AD belong to a Christian context and predates the advent of Islam with 150 years.

In December 2015, researchers from a French-Saudi expedition studying rock inscriptions in southern Saudi Arabia published a 100-page-long report in France’s Académie des Inscriptions et Belles-Lettres that reported that the oldest Arabic text, carved on a large rectangular stone that was found in Saudi Arabia, is simply of a name, “Thawban (son of) Malik,” decorated with a Christian cross. The same cross systematically appears on the other similar stelae dating more or less to the same period.

The discovery is sensational since it shows that the origins of the Arabic alphabet used to write the Koran belongs to a Christian context. This pre-Islamic alphabet is also called Nabatean Arabic, because it evolved from the script used by the Nabateans, the once-powerful nation that built Petra and dominated the trade routes in the southern Levant and northern Arabia before being annexed by the Romans in the early 2nd century.

Nabatean-script.jpg


Example of Nabatean script to the god Qasiu. Basalt, 1st century AD. Found in Sia in the Hauran, Southern Syria. (Public Domain)

The ancient text is a legacy of a once flourishing Christian community in the area also linked to the rise of an ancient Jewish kingdom that ruled over much of what is today Yemen and Saudi Arabia

Christians in the Desert
The Muslim tradition preserved in the book of Koran portrays the pre-Islamic region as chaotic and filled with unrest that Mohammed manages to unify with the help of the powerful message of Islam

However, the Islamic text makes no mention of the numerous Christian and Jewish communities across the Saudi peninsula that flourished during the days of Mohammed.

Recent studies of works by ancient Christians and Muslim records have re-shaped our image of the societies that existed in the region and shed new light on the complex history of the region before the advent of Islam. One of the important kingdoms in Arabia at the time was the Jewish kingdom of Himyar.

Dhamar-Ali-Yahbur-II.jpg


A bronze statue of Dhamar Ali Yahbur II, a Himyarite King who probably reigned in late 3rd or early 4th century AD. Displayed in Sana'a National Museum. (CC BY 2.0)

The kingdom was founded in the 2nd century AD, and around 380 AD the elites of the kingdom of Himyar converted to some form of Judaism. By the 4th century,

Himyar had become an important player in the struggle for regional power. The Kingdom of Himyar’s headquarters was situated in what is today Yemen, from where its expansionist rulers led a series of campaigns conquering into its neighboring states, including the legendary biblical kingdom of Sheba.

Royal inscriptions found in the Saudi capital of Riyadhand and Bir Hima, north of Yemen, attest how the Himyarite kingdom during the 5th century expanded its influence into central Arabia, the Persian Gulf area, and into the region of Mecca and Medina, known as Hijaz.

rock-art-of-Arabia.jpg


Pre-Islamic rock art of Arabia at Bir Hima, carved into the eastern foothills of the Asir Mountains of Saudi Arabia. (CC BY 2.0)

According to ancient Christian sources, the Christians of the nearby city of Najran suffered a wave of persecution by the Himyarites in 470. The name of Thawban son of Malik appears on eight inscriptions, along with the names of other Christians. The French experts believe these inscriptions are a form of commemoration of Thawban and his fellow Christians that were martyred as they refused to convert to Judaism.

The researchers believe that the Christians choice of the early Arabic script to memorialize their comrades was an act of resistance that stood in sharp contrast to the inscriptions left by Himyarite rulers in their native Sabaean. To adopt a new writing system was a way of manifesting a separation from Himyar, and at the same time, a means to approach the rest of the Arabs to unify against their common enemy.

portion-of-a-war.jpg


A portion of a war scene from the Himyarite era. (CC BY SA 3.0)

The growing resistance and outside pressure eventually brought down Himyar. In the years around 500, it fell to Christian invaders from the Ethiopian kingdom of Aksum. For the next century, Himyar was a Christian kingdom that continued to exert control over Arabia. During the latter half of the 6th century, one of its rulers, Abraha, marched through Bir Hima, conquering, Yathrib, the desert oasis that 70 years later would become known as Medina – The City of the Prophet.

Featured Image: A photo showing some stelae found with Arabic inscriptions. Source: Saudi Commission for Tourism and Antiquities (SCTA)

By Sam Bostrom

Interesting, Aris, in light of the fact that there are Muslims in the Middle East engaged in persecuting and/or murdering Christians and there are those who are trying to wipe out any evidence of Christians or other ancient cultures which were there. By the way, since your roots are in the Middle East, you probably have had interesting conversations with your Muslim friends and acquaintances during your years there as to how they look upon their religion and the religions of others.


5000-year-old Assyrian Culture Facing Devastation


by Uzay Bulut
November 29, 2015 at 4:00 am


5000-year-old Assyrian Culture Facing Devastation

The problem isn't the Muslim culture, I think people forget that it is Muslims who preserved this history, as well as much learning, and kept it safe for over a thousand years. The problem is extremists, who's religious world view is so destructive.

I realize that most Muslims are peaceful, but a lot of these killings and destruction have to do with the Muslim culture in the sense that here in the 21st century we still see Muslims murdering each other because of their different sects as well as blowing up their shrines and mosques.. It's too bad you couldn't find some Ahmadiyya Muslims here in America and ask them how they feel about being in the U.S. where they feel safe from other Muslims who are trying to do them in elsewhere.

Again, the problem isn't really the Muslim culture at large Sally - it's the mindset of these extremists, which is little different than extremists elsewhere. Intolerance and destruction of the culture and history of anyone who is outside their sect. The thing about ISIS is it's less about religion than power. I was listening to NPR recently, talking about some of the people attracted to ISIS now - people with violent criminal backgrounds who can find an "outlet" for their violence in the guise of religion.

Sectarian warfare is nothing unique to Islam - witness the Irish sectarian conflict that went on for years. Or, the Bosnian conflict. Just recently Radazan Karadzic was found guilty of genocide and crimes against humanity. You have a region with not just religious sectarian splits but ethnic and tribal splits and multiple failed or failing states.


I have to differ with you here, Coyote. If you have been following the news in the Muslim world even before the start of ISIS, you would have read about the Muslims killing and destroying the religious sites of others who are non Muslims or are Muslims of different sects. So sad to realize how these Muslims, whether Sunni, Shia, or some other sect, are happy to be going on a pilgrimage to one of their shrines and instead are murdered by some other sect. One would think that in this modern world that these so-called extremists would have some tolerance for those who have different religious beliefs. Let us not forget that they are not loathe to use modern technology such as the Internet, so why is it that difficult to employ religious tolerance? And let us also not forget those clerics who feel the Infidels are descended from pigs and dogs and should be killed. That means you, me and the rest of us here. By the way, since you mention criminals in ISIS, I have also read about that, but how do you account for doctors, nurses, engineers and other educated people who previously were not criminals but living a middle class life leaving everything to join up with ISIS. What is it in the religion that makes people do that?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/w...raq-fire-mortars-into-shiite-shrine.html?_r=0

Time for Shias to leave Pakistan - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Nine things you’ll learn from Pew’s poll of the world’s Muslims
 
Arabs wanted everyone to convert in every faith.

What do you mean?
There were christians in the south and jews in the north in Khaybar and paganists in this region, most have converted to Islam.
Arabic language exist before judaism and christianism.
Forced conversion is not allowed in Islam.
Let There Be No Compulsion in Religion - The Religion of Islam


and yet so many have been killed because they convert or believe in the christian faith
churches or the bible is not allowed in most of arabia.
Chritians that word at the pleasure of saudi, live in compounds/ghettos apart from muslims.
Christians in their own homes have been arrested for praying in groups.

What is that about no compulsion of religion???????
Your thread is ridiculous as arabic language exist before judaism and christianism.

Who are the christians who were killed in the arabic peninsula?

how do you know that the Arabic language "EXISTED" before Judaism and
"christianism" -------it was not a written language until about 300 AD. It
is certainly true that the residents of the Arabian peninsula were grunting SOME
sort of a language before that-------but the fact is as I have been told is that
ARABIC has changed something like ENGLISH changed ---over the past 2000
years----to the extent that even today Arabic in different countries -----is SO DIFFERENT that people from Morocco cannot talk to people from Saudi Arabia.
There were jews in the Arabian peninsula for about 1500 years (at least) before
Muhummad was born------and---SHORTLY after Christianity became established
as a religion (like 300 AD) SAUDI ARABIA IS ON THE SILK ROAD
(google 'silk road') Even in the old days HUMANS were mobile and engaged
in long distance trading

Maybe, IRosie, Freeman will next tell us that he learned to read the Canterbury Tales in Old English while a student at his madrassa.
 
Arabs wanted everyone to convert in every faith.

What do you mean?
There were christians in the south and jews in the north in Khaybar and paganists in this region, most have converted to Islam.
Arabic language exist before judaism and christianism.
Forced conversion is not allowed in Islam.
Let There Be No Compulsion in Religion - The Religion of Islam


and yet so many have been killed because they convert or believe in the christian faith
churches or the bible is not allowed in most of arabia.
Chritians that word at the pleasure of saudi, live in compounds/ghettos apart from muslims.
Christians in their own homes have been arrested for praying in groups.

What is that about no compulsion of religion???????
Your thread is ridiculous as arabic language exist before judaism and christianism.

Who are the christians who were killed in the arabic peninsula?

how do you know that the Arabic language "EXISTED" before Judaism and
"christianism" -------it was not a written language until about 300 AD. It
is certainly true that the residents of the Arabian peninsula were grunting SOME
sort of a language before that-------but the fact is as I have been told is that
ARABIC has changed something like ENGLISH changed ---over the past 2000
years----to the extent that even today Arabic in different countries -----is SO DIFFERENT that people from Morocco cannot talk to people from Saudi Arabia.
There were jews in the Arabian peninsula for about 1500 years (at least) before
Muhummad was born------and---SHORTLY after Christianity became established
as a religion (like 300 AD) SAUDI ARABIA IS ON THE SILK ROAD
(google 'silk road') Even in the old days HUMANS were mobile and engaged
in long distance trading

Maybe, IRosie, Freeman will next tell us that he learned to read the Canterbury Tales in Old English while a student at his madrassa.

My college FRESHMAN COMP. prof---could do it------he was a bit weird. It was DEFINITELY unrelated to Arabic------it did not even sound human
 
Arabs wanted everyone to convert in every faith.

What do you mean?
There were christians in the south and jews in the north in Khaybar and paganists in this region, most have converted to Islam.
Arabic language exist before judaism and christianism.
Forced conversion is not allowed in Islam.
Let There Be No Compulsion in Religion - The Religion of Islam


and yet so many have been killed because they convert or believe in the christian faith
churches or the bible is not allowed in most of arabia.
Chritians that word at the pleasure of saudi, live in compounds/ghettos apart from muslims.
Christians in their own homes have been arrested for praying in groups.

What is that about no compulsion of religion???????
Not unique to Islam.

so? of what significance is the fact that there were times and places
in which religion was just as restricted and IMPOSED as it is today
thruout the "Islamic world" ? There were times and places in which
people were cannibals too.
 
History did begin before Mohammad, christian use of Arabic 150 before Islam

Archaeologists Discover that Earliest Known Arabic Writing Was Penned by a Christian
www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/archaeologists-discover-earliest-known-arabic-writing-was-penned-christian-020778

21 March, 2016 - 23:51 Sam Bostrom
(Read the article on one page)

The oldest known Arabic writing found in Saudi Arabia, from ca. 470 AD belong to a Christian context and predates the advent of Islam with 150 years.

In December 2015, researchers from a French-Saudi expedition studying rock inscriptions in southern Saudi Arabia published a 100-page-long report in France’s Académie des Inscriptions et Belles-Lettres that reported that the oldest Arabic text, carved on a large rectangular stone that was found in Saudi Arabia, is simply of a name, “Thawban (son of) Malik,” decorated with a Christian cross. The same cross systematically appears on the other similar stelae dating more or less to the same period.

The discovery is sensational since it shows that the origins of the Arabic alphabet used to write the Koran belongs to a Christian context. This pre-Islamic alphabet is also called Nabatean Arabic, because it evolved from the script used by the Nabateans, the once-powerful nation that built Petra and dominated the trade routes in the southern Levant and northern Arabia before being annexed by the Romans in the early 2nd century.

Nabatean-script.jpg


Example of Nabatean script to the god Qasiu. Basalt, 1st century AD. Found in Sia in the Hauran, Southern Syria. (Public Domain)

The ancient text is a legacy of a once flourishing Christian community in the area also linked to the rise of an ancient Jewish kingdom that ruled over much of what is today Yemen and Saudi Arabia

Christians in the Desert
The Muslim tradition preserved in the book of Koran portrays the pre-Islamic region as chaotic and filled with unrest that Mohammed manages to unify with the help of the powerful message of Islam

However, the Islamic text makes no mention of the numerous Christian and Jewish communities across the Saudi peninsula that flourished during the days of Mohammed.

Recent studies of works by ancient Christians and Muslim records have re-shaped our image of the societies that existed in the region and shed new light on the complex history of the region before the advent of Islam. One of the important kingdoms in Arabia at the time was the Jewish kingdom of Himyar.

Dhamar-Ali-Yahbur-II.jpg


A bronze statue of Dhamar Ali Yahbur II, a Himyarite King who probably reigned in late 3rd or early 4th century AD. Displayed in Sana'a National Museum. (CC BY 2.0)

The kingdom was founded in the 2nd century AD, and around 380 AD the elites of the kingdom of Himyar converted to some form of Judaism. By the 4th century,

Himyar had become an important player in the struggle for regional power. The Kingdom of Himyar’s headquarters was situated in what is today Yemen, from where its expansionist rulers led a series of campaigns conquering into its neighboring states, including the legendary biblical kingdom of Sheba.

Royal inscriptions found in the Saudi capital of Riyadhand and Bir Hima, north of Yemen, attest how the Himyarite kingdom during the 5th century expanded its influence into central Arabia, the Persian Gulf area, and into the region of Mecca and Medina, known as Hijaz.

rock-art-of-Arabia.jpg


Pre-Islamic rock art of Arabia at Bir Hima, carved into the eastern foothills of the Asir Mountains of Saudi Arabia. (CC BY 2.0)

According to ancient Christian sources, the Christians of the nearby city of Najran suffered a wave of persecution by the Himyarites in 470. The name of Thawban son of Malik appears on eight inscriptions, along with the names of other Christians. The French experts believe these inscriptions are a form of commemoration of Thawban and his fellow Christians that were martyred as they refused to convert to Judaism.

The researchers believe that the Christians choice of the early Arabic script to memorialize their comrades was an act of resistance that stood in sharp contrast to the inscriptions left by Himyarite rulers in their native Sabaean. To adopt a new writing system was a way of manifesting a separation from Himyar, and at the same time, a means to approach the rest of the Arabs to unify against their common enemy.

portion-of-a-war.jpg


A portion of a war scene from the Himyarite era. (CC BY SA 3.0)

The growing resistance and outside pressure eventually brought down Himyar. In the years around 500, it fell to Christian invaders from the Ethiopian kingdom of Aksum. For the next century, Himyar was a Christian kingdom that continued to exert control over Arabia. During the latter half of the 6th century, one of its rulers, Abraha, marched through Bir Hima, conquering, Yathrib, the desert oasis that 70 years later would become known as Medina – The City of the Prophet.

Featured Image: A photo showing some stelae found with Arabic inscriptions. Source: Saudi Commission for Tourism and Antiquities (SCTA)

By Sam Bostrom

Interesting, Aris, in light of the fact that there are Muslims in the Middle East engaged in persecuting and/or murdering Christians and there are those who are trying to wipe out any evidence of Christians or other ancient cultures which were there. By the way, since your roots are in the Middle East, you probably have had interesting conversations with your Muslim friends and acquaintances during your years there as to how they look upon their religion and the religions of others.


5000-year-old Assyrian Culture Facing Devastation


by Uzay Bulut
November 29, 2015 at 4:00 am


5000-year-old Assyrian Culture Facing Devastation

The problem isn't the Muslim culture, I think people forget that it is Muslims who preserved this history, as well as much learning, and kept it safe for over a thousand years. The problem is extremists, who's religious world view is so destructive.

I realize that most Muslims are peaceful, but a lot of these killings and destruction have to do with the Muslim culture in the sense that here in the 21st century we still see Muslims murdering each other because of their different sects as well as blowing up their shrines and mosques.. It's too bad you couldn't find some Ahmadiyya Muslims here in America and ask them how they feel about being in the U.S. where they feel safe from other Muslims who are trying to do them in elsewhere.

Again, the problem isn't really the Muslim culture at large Sally - it's the mindset of these extremists, which is little different than extremists elsewhere. Intolerance and destruction of the culture and history of anyone who is outside their sect. The thing about ISIS is it's less about religion than power. I was listening to NPR recently, talking about some of the people attracted to ISIS now - people with violent criminal backgrounds who can find an "outlet" for their violence in the guise of religion.

Sectarian warfare is nothing unique to Islam - witness the Irish sectarian conflict that went on for years. Or, the Bosnian conflict. Just recently Radazan Karadzic was found guilty of genocide and crimes against humanity. You have a region with not just religious sectarian splits but ethnic and tribal splits and multiple failed or failing states.


I have to differ with you here, Coyote. If you have been following the news in the Muslim world even before the start of ISIS, you would have read about the Muslims killing and destroying the religious sites of others who are non Muslims or are Muslims of different sects. So sad to realize how these Muslims, whether Sunni, Shia, or some other sect, are happy to be going on a pilgrimage to one of their shrines and instead are murdered by some other sect. One would think that in this modern world that these so-called extremists would have some tolerance for those who have different religious beliefs. Let us not forget that they are not loathe to use modern technology such as the Internet, so why is it that difficult to employ religious tolerance? And let us also not forget those clerics who feel the Infidels are descended from pigs and dogs and should be killed. That means you, me and the rest of us here. By the way, since you mention criminals in ISIS, I have also read about that, but how do you account for doctors, nurses, engineers and other educated people who previously were not criminals but living a middle class life leaving everything to join up with ISIS. What is it in the religion that makes people do that?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/w...raq-fire-mortars-into-shiite-shrine.html?_r=0

Time for Shias to leave Pakistan - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Nine things you’ll learn from Pew’s poll of the world’s Muslims

what is most significant to me, sally, is that muslim kids are actually TAUGHT---
that muhummad INVENTED the concept of religious freedom and tolerance----
along with (for muslims of southeast asia) Dal and Chapattis.
 
History did begin before Mohammad, christian use of Arabic 150 before Islam

Archaeologists Discover that Earliest Known Arabic Writing Was Penned by a Christian
www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/archaeologists-discover-earliest-known-arabic-writing-was-penned-christian-020778

21 March, 2016 - 23:51 Sam Bostrom
(Read the article on one page)

The oldest known Arabic writing found in Saudi Arabia, from ca. 470 AD belong to a Christian context and predates the advent of Islam with 150 years.

In December 2015, researchers from a French-Saudi expedition studying rock inscriptions in southern Saudi Arabia published a 100-page-long report in France’s Académie des Inscriptions et Belles-Lettres that reported that the oldest Arabic text, carved on a large rectangular stone that was found in Saudi Arabia, is simply of a name, “Thawban (son of) Malik,” decorated with a Christian cross. The same cross systematically appears on the other similar stelae dating more or less to the same period.

The discovery is sensational since it shows that the origins of the Arabic alphabet used to write the Koran belongs to a Christian context. This pre-Islamic alphabet is also called Nabatean Arabic, because it evolved from the script used by the Nabateans, the once-powerful nation that built Petra and dominated the trade routes in the southern Levant and northern Arabia before being annexed by the Romans in the early 2nd century.

Nabatean-script.jpg


Example of Nabatean script to the god Qasiu. Basalt, 1st century AD. Found in Sia in the Hauran, Southern Syria. (Public Domain)

The ancient text is a legacy of a once flourishing Christian community in the area also linked to the rise of an ancient Jewish kingdom that ruled over much of what is today Yemen and Saudi Arabia

Christians in the Desert
The Muslim tradition preserved in the book of Koran portrays the pre-Islamic region as chaotic and filled with unrest that Mohammed manages to unify with the help of the powerful message of Islam

However, the Islamic text makes no mention of the numerous Christian and Jewish communities across the Saudi peninsula that flourished during the days of Mohammed.

Recent studies of works by ancient Christians and Muslim records have re-shaped our image of the societies that existed in the region and shed new light on the complex history of the region before the advent of Islam. One of the important kingdoms in Arabia at the time was the Jewish kingdom of Himyar.

Dhamar-Ali-Yahbur-II.jpg


A bronze statue of Dhamar Ali Yahbur II, a Himyarite King who probably reigned in late 3rd or early 4th century AD. Displayed in Sana'a National Museum. (CC BY 2.0)

The kingdom was founded in the 2nd century AD, and around 380 AD the elites of the kingdom of Himyar converted to some form of Judaism. By the 4th century,

Himyar had become an important player in the struggle for regional power. The Kingdom of Himyar’s headquarters was situated in what is today Yemen, from where its expansionist rulers led a series of campaigns conquering into its neighboring states, including the legendary biblical kingdom of Sheba.

Royal inscriptions found in the Saudi capital of Riyadhand and Bir Hima, north of Yemen, attest how the Himyarite kingdom during the 5th century expanded its influence into central Arabia, the Persian Gulf area, and into the region of Mecca and Medina, known as Hijaz.

rock-art-of-Arabia.jpg


Pre-Islamic rock art of Arabia at Bir Hima, carved into the eastern foothills of the Asir Mountains of Saudi Arabia. (CC BY 2.0)

According to ancient Christian sources, the Christians of the nearby city of Najran suffered a wave of persecution by the Himyarites in 470. The name of Thawban son of Malik appears on eight inscriptions, along with the names of other Christians. The French experts believe these inscriptions are a form of commemoration of Thawban and his fellow Christians that were martyred as they refused to convert to Judaism.

The researchers believe that the Christians choice of the early Arabic script to memorialize their comrades was an act of resistance that stood in sharp contrast to the inscriptions left by Himyarite rulers in their native Sabaean. To adopt a new writing system was a way of manifesting a separation from Himyar, and at the same time, a means to approach the rest of the Arabs to unify against their common enemy.

portion-of-a-war.jpg


A portion of a war scene from the Himyarite era. (CC BY SA 3.0)

The growing resistance and outside pressure eventually brought down Himyar. In the years around 500, it fell to Christian invaders from the Ethiopian kingdom of Aksum. For the next century, Himyar was a Christian kingdom that continued to exert control over Arabia. During the latter half of the 6th century, one of its rulers, Abraha, marched through Bir Hima, conquering, Yathrib, the desert oasis that 70 years later would become known as Medina – The City of the Prophet.

Featured Image: A photo showing some stelae found with Arabic inscriptions. Source: Saudi Commission for Tourism and Antiquities (SCTA)

By Sam Bostrom

Interesting, Aris, in light of the fact that there are Muslims in the Middle East engaged in persecuting and/or murdering Christians and there are those who are trying to wipe out any evidence of Christians or other ancient cultures which were there. By the way, since your roots are in the Middle East, you probably have had interesting conversations with your Muslim friends and acquaintances during your years there as to how they look upon their religion and the religions of others.


5000-year-old Assyrian Culture Facing Devastation


by Uzay Bulut
November 29, 2015 at 4:00 am


5000-year-old Assyrian Culture Facing Devastation

The problem isn't the Muslim culture, I think people forget that it is Muslims who preserved this history, as well as much learning, and kept it safe for over a thousand years. The problem is extremists, who's religious world view is so destructive.

I realize that most Muslims are peaceful, but a lot of these killings and destruction have to do with the Muslim culture in the sense that here in the 21st century we still see Muslims murdering each other because of their different sects as well as blowing up their shrines and mosques.. It's too bad you couldn't find some Ahmadiyya Muslims here in America and ask them how they feel about being in the U.S. where they feel safe from other Muslims who are trying to do them in elsewhere.

Again, the problem isn't really the Muslim culture at large Sally - it's the mindset of these extremists, which is little different than extremists elsewhere. Intolerance and destruction of the culture and history of anyone who is outside their sect. The thing about ISIS is it's less about religion than power. I was listening to NPR recently, talking about some of the people attracted to ISIS now - people with violent criminal backgrounds who can find an "outlet" for their violence in the guise of religion.

Sectarian warfare is nothing unique to Islam - witness the Irish sectarian conflict that went on for years. Or, the Bosnian conflict. Just recently Radazan Karadzic was found guilty of genocide and crimes against humanity. You have a region with not just religious sectarian splits but ethnic and tribal splits and multiple failed or failing states.


I have to differ with you here, Coyote. If you have been following the news in the Muslim world even before the start of ISIS, you would have read about the Muslims killing and destroying the religious sites of others who are non Muslims or are Muslims of different sects. So sad to realize how these Muslims, whether Sunni, Shia, or some other sect, are happy to be going on a pilgrimage to one of their shrines and instead are murdered by some other sect. One would think that in this modern world that these so-called extremists would have some tolerance for those who have different religious beliefs. Let us not forget that they are not loathe to use modern technology such as the Internet, so why is it that difficult to employ religious tolerance? And let us also not forget those clerics who feel the Infidels are descended from pigs and dogs and should be killed. That means you, me and the rest of us here. By the way, since you mention criminals in ISIS, I have also read about that, but how do you account for doctors, nurses, engineers and other educated people who previously were not criminals but living a middle class life leaving everything to join up with ISIS. What is it in the religion that makes people do that?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/w...raq-fire-mortars-into-shiite-shrine.html?_r=0

Time for Shias to leave Pakistan - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Nine things you’ll learn from Pew’s poll of the world’s Muslims

When it comes to destroying religious sites the only two I heard of are Talibon and ISIS, both considered to be extremist groups.
 
Interesting, Aris, in light of the fact that there are Muslims in the Middle East engaged in persecuting and/or murdering Christians and there are those who are trying to wipe out any evidence of Christians or other ancient cultures which were there. By the way, since your roots are in the Middle East, you probably have had interesting conversations with your Muslim friends and acquaintances during your years there as to how they look upon their religion and the religions of others.


5000-year-old Assyrian Culture Facing Devastation


by Uzay Bulut
November 29, 2015 at 4:00 am


5000-year-old Assyrian Culture Facing Devastation

The problem isn't the Muslim culture, I think people forget that it is Muslims who preserved this history, as well as much learning, and kept it safe for over a thousand years. The problem is extremists, who's religious world view is so destructive.

I realize that most Muslims are peaceful, but a lot of these killings and destruction have to do with the Muslim culture in the sense that here in the 21st century we still see Muslims murdering each other because of their different sects as well as blowing up their shrines and mosques.. It's too bad you couldn't find some Ahmadiyya Muslims here in America and ask them how they feel about being in the U.S. where they feel safe from other Muslims who are trying to do them in elsewhere.

Again, the problem isn't really the Muslim culture at large Sally - it's the mindset of these extremists, which is little different than extremists elsewhere. Intolerance and destruction of the culture and history of anyone who is outside their sect. The thing about ISIS is it's less about religion than power. I was listening to NPR recently, talking about some of the people attracted to ISIS now - people with violent criminal backgrounds who can find an "outlet" for their violence in the guise of religion.

Sectarian warfare is nothing unique to Islam - witness the Irish sectarian conflict that went on for years. Or, the Bosnian conflict. Just recently Radazan Karadzic was found guilty of genocide and crimes against humanity. You have a region with not just religious sectarian splits but ethnic and tribal splits and multiple failed or failing states.


I have to differ with you here, Coyote. If you have been following the news in the Muslim world even before the start of ISIS, you would have read about the Muslims killing and destroying the religious sites of others who are non Muslims or are Muslims of different sects. So sad to realize how these Muslims, whether Sunni, Shia, or some other sect, are happy to be going on a pilgrimage to one of their shrines and instead are murdered by some other sect. One would think that in this modern world that these so-called extremists would have some tolerance for those who have different religious beliefs. Let us not forget that they are not loathe to use modern technology such as the Internet, so why is it that difficult to employ religious tolerance? And let us also not forget those clerics who feel the Infidels are descended from pigs and dogs and should be killed. That means you, me and the rest of us here. By the way, since you mention criminals in ISIS, I have also read about that, but how do you account for doctors, nurses, engineers and other educated people who previously were not criminals but living a middle class life leaving everything to join up with ISIS. What is it in the religion that makes people do that?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/w...raq-fire-mortars-into-shiite-shrine.html?_r=0

Time for Shias to leave Pakistan - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Nine things you’ll learn from Pew’s poll of the world’s Muslims

When it comes to destroying religious sites the only two I heard of are Talibon and ISIS, both considered to be extremist groups.

try not to admit that, coyote. It makes you seem hopelessly naive
 
Interesting, Aris, in light of the fact that there are Muslims in the Middle East engaged in persecuting and/or murdering Christians and there are those who are trying to wipe out any evidence of Christians or other ancient cultures which were there. By the way, since your roots are in the Middle East, you probably have had interesting conversations with your Muslim friends and acquaintances during your years there as to how they look upon their religion and the religions of others.


5000-year-old Assyrian Culture Facing Devastation


by Uzay Bulut
November 29, 2015 at 4:00 am


5000-year-old Assyrian Culture Facing Devastation

The problem isn't the Muslim culture, I think people forget that it is Muslims who preserved this history, as well as much learning, and kept it safe for over a thousand years. The problem is extremists, who's religious world view is so destructive.

I realize that most Muslims are peaceful, but a lot of these killings and destruction have to do with the Muslim culture in the sense that here in the 21st century we still see Muslims murdering each other because of their different sects as well as blowing up their shrines and mosques.. It's too bad you couldn't find some Ahmadiyya Muslims here in America and ask them how they feel about being in the U.S. where they feel safe from other Muslims who are trying to do them in elsewhere.

Again, the problem isn't really the Muslim culture at large Sally - it's the mindset of these extremists, which is little different than extremists elsewhere. Intolerance and destruction of the culture and history of anyone who is outside their sect. The thing about ISIS is it's less about religion than power. I was listening to NPR recently, talking about some of the people attracted to ISIS now - people with violent criminal backgrounds who can find an "outlet" for their violence in the guise of religion.

Sectarian warfare is nothing unique to Islam - witness the Irish sectarian conflict that went on for years. Or, the Bosnian conflict. Just recently Radazan Karadzic was found guilty of genocide and crimes against humanity. You have a region with not just religious sectarian splits but ethnic and tribal splits and multiple failed or failing states.


I have to differ with you here, Coyote. If you have been following the news in the Muslim world even before the start of ISIS, you would have read about the Muslims killing and destroying the religious sites of others who are non Muslims or are Muslims of different sects. So sad to realize how these Muslims, whether Sunni, Shia, or some other sect, are happy to be going on a pilgrimage to one of their shrines and instead are murdered by some other sect. One would think that in this modern world that these so-called extremists would have some tolerance for those who have different religious beliefs. Let us not forget that they are not loathe to use modern technology such as the Internet, so why is it that difficult to employ religious tolerance? And let us also not forget those clerics who feel the Infidels are descended from pigs and dogs and should be killed. That means you, me and the rest of us here. By the way, since you mention criminals in ISIS, I have also read about that, but how do you account for doctors, nurses, engineers and other educated people who previously were not criminals but living a middle class life leaving everything to join up with ISIS. What is it in the religion that makes people do that?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/w...raq-fire-mortars-into-shiite-shrine.html?_r=0

Time for Shias to leave Pakistan - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Nine things you’ll learn from Pew’s poll of the world’s Muslims

When it comes to destroying religious sites the only two I heard of are Talibon and ISIS, both considered to be extremist groups.

You are going to have to read more about shrines being blown up with pilgrims in them. By the way, did you happen to read the article I posted about a town in Iraq that has a shrine, but the city was originally Christian so they are wiping out the evidence that the Christians were there. I wouldn't call that being tolerant.
 
The problem isn't the Muslim culture, I think people forget that it is Muslims who preserved this history, as well as much learning, and kept it safe for over a thousand years. The problem is extremists, who's religious world view is so destructive.

I realize that most Muslims are peaceful, but a lot of these killings and destruction have to do with the Muslim culture in the sense that here in the 21st century we still see Muslims murdering each other because of their different sects as well as blowing up their shrines and mosques.. It's too bad you couldn't find some Ahmadiyya Muslims here in America and ask them how they feel about being in the U.S. where they feel safe from other Muslims who are trying to do them in elsewhere.

Again, the problem isn't really the Muslim culture at large Sally - it's the mindset of these extremists, which is little different than extremists elsewhere. Intolerance and destruction of the culture and history of anyone who is outside their sect. The thing about ISIS is it's less about religion than power. I was listening to NPR recently, talking about some of the people attracted to ISIS now - people with violent criminal backgrounds who can find an "outlet" for their violence in the guise of religion.

Sectarian warfare is nothing unique to Islam - witness the Irish sectarian conflict that went on for years. Or, the Bosnian conflict. Just recently Radazan Karadzic was found guilty of genocide and crimes against humanity. You have a region with not just religious sectarian splits but ethnic and tribal splits and multiple failed or failing states.


I have to differ with you here, Coyote. If you have been following the news in the Muslim world even before the start of ISIS, you would have read about the Muslims killing and destroying the religious sites of others who are non Muslims or are Muslims of different sects. So sad to realize how these Muslims, whether Sunni, Shia, or some other sect, are happy to be going on a pilgrimage to one of their shrines and instead are murdered by some other sect. One would think that in this modern world that these so-called extremists would have some tolerance for those who have different religious beliefs. Let us not forget that they are not loathe to use modern technology such as the Internet, so why is it that difficult to employ religious tolerance? And let us also not forget those clerics who feel the Infidels are descended from pigs and dogs and should be killed. That means you, me and the rest of us here. By the way, since you mention criminals in ISIS, I have also read about that, but how do you account for doctors, nurses, engineers and other educated people who previously were not criminals but living a middle class life leaving everything to join up with ISIS. What is it in the religion that makes people do that?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/w...raq-fire-mortars-into-shiite-shrine.html?_r=0

Time for Shias to leave Pakistan - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Nine things you’ll learn from Pew’s poll of the world’s Muslims

When it comes to destroying religious sites the only two I heard of are Talibon and ISIS, both considered to be extremist groups.

You are going to have to read more about shrines being blown up with pilgrims in them. By the way, did you happen to read the article I posted about a town in Iraq that has a shrine, but the city was originally Christian so they are wiping out the evidence that the Christians were there. I wouldn't call that being tolerant.

Are you talking about the Cave of Patriarchs massacre?
 
Arabs wanted everyone to convert in every faith.

What do you mean?
There were christians in the south and jews in the north in Khaybar and paganists in this region, most have converted to Islam.
Arabic language exist before judaism and christianism.
Forced conversion is not allowed in Islam.
Let There Be No Compulsion in Religion - The Religion of Islam


and yet so many have been killed because they convert or believe in the christian faith
churches or the bible is not allowed in most of arabia.
Chritians that word at the pleasure of saudi, live in compounds/ghettos apart from muslims.
Christians in their own homes have been arrested for praying in groups.

What is that about no compulsion of religion???????
Not unique to Islam.

so? of what significance is the fact that there were times and places
in which religion was just as restricted and IMPOSED as it is today
thruout the "Islamic world" ? There were times and places in which
people were cannibals too.


still are cannibals, both out of necessity and choice
 
I realize that most Muslims are peaceful, but a lot of these killings and destruction have to do with the Muslim culture in the sense that here in the 21st century we still see Muslims murdering each other because of their different sects as well as blowing up their shrines and mosques.. It's too bad you couldn't find some Ahmadiyya Muslims here in America and ask them how they feel about being in the U.S. where they feel safe from other Muslims who are trying to do them in elsewhere.

Again, the problem isn't really the Muslim culture at large Sally - it's the mindset of these extremists, which is little different than extremists elsewhere. Intolerance and destruction of the culture and history of anyone who is outside their sect. The thing about ISIS is it's less about religion than power. I was listening to NPR recently, talking about some of the people attracted to ISIS now - people with violent criminal backgrounds who can find an "outlet" for their violence in the guise of religion.

Sectarian warfare is nothing unique to Islam - witness the Irish sectarian conflict that went on for years. Or, the Bosnian conflict. Just recently Radazan Karadzic was found guilty of genocide and crimes against humanity. You have a region with not just religious sectarian splits but ethnic and tribal splits and multiple failed or failing states.


I have to differ with you here, Coyote. If you have been following the news in the Muslim world even before the start of ISIS, you would have read about the Muslims killing and destroying the religious sites of others who are non Muslims or are Muslims of different sects. So sad to realize how these Muslims, whether Sunni, Shia, or some other sect, are happy to be going on a pilgrimage to one of their shrines and instead are murdered by some other sect. One would think that in this modern world that these so-called extremists would have some tolerance for those who have different religious beliefs. Let us not forget that they are not loathe to use modern technology such as the Internet, so why is it that difficult to employ religious tolerance? And let us also not forget those clerics who feel the Infidels are descended from pigs and dogs and should be killed. That means you, me and the rest of us here. By the way, since you mention criminals in ISIS, I have also read about that, but how do you account for doctors, nurses, engineers and other educated people who previously were not criminals but living a middle class life leaving everything to join up with ISIS. What is it in the religion that makes people do that?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/w...raq-fire-mortars-into-shiite-shrine.html?_r=0

Time for Shias to leave Pakistan - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Nine things you’ll learn from Pew’s poll of the world’s Muslims

When it comes to destroying religious sites the only two I heard of are Talibon and ISIS, both considered to be extremist groups.

You are going to have to read more about shrines being blown up with pilgrims in them. By the way, did you happen to read the article I posted about a town in Iraq that has a shrine, but the city was originally Christian so they are wiping out the evidence that the Christians were there. I wouldn't call that being tolerant.

Are you talking about the Cave of Patriarchs massacre?


not iraq
 
I realize that most Muslims are peaceful, but a lot of these killings and destruction have to do with the Muslim culture in the sense that here in the 21st century we still see Muslims murdering each other because of their different sects as well as blowing up their shrines and mosques.. It's too bad you couldn't find some Ahmadiyya Muslims here in America and ask them how they feel about being in the U.S. where they feel safe from other Muslims who are trying to do them in elsewhere.

Again, the problem isn't really the Muslim culture at large Sally - it's the mindset of these extremists, which is little different than extremists elsewhere. Intolerance and destruction of the culture and history of anyone who is outside their sect. The thing about ISIS is it's less about religion than power. I was listening to NPR recently, talking about some of the people attracted to ISIS now - people with violent criminal backgrounds who can find an "outlet" for their violence in the guise of religion.

Sectarian warfare is nothing unique to Islam - witness the Irish sectarian conflict that went on for years. Or, the Bosnian conflict. Just recently Radazan Karadzic was found guilty of genocide and crimes against humanity. You have a region with not just religious sectarian splits but ethnic and tribal splits and multiple failed or failing states.


I have to differ with you here, Coyote. If you have been following the news in the Muslim world even before the start of ISIS, you would have read about the Muslims killing and destroying the religious sites of others who are non Muslims or are Muslims of different sects. So sad to realize how these Muslims, whether Sunni, Shia, or some other sect, are happy to be going on a pilgrimage to one of their shrines and instead are murdered by some other sect. One would think that in this modern world that these so-called extremists would have some tolerance for those who have different religious beliefs. Let us not forget that they are not loathe to use modern technology such as the Internet, so why is it that difficult to employ religious tolerance? And let us also not forget those clerics who feel the Infidels are descended from pigs and dogs and should be killed. That means you, me and the rest of us here. By the way, since you mention criminals in ISIS, I have also read about that, but how do you account for doctors, nurses, engineers and other educated people who previously were not criminals but living a middle class life leaving everything to join up with ISIS. What is it in the religion that makes people do that?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/w...raq-fire-mortars-into-shiite-shrine.html?_r=0

Time for Shias to leave Pakistan - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Nine things you’ll learn from Pew’s poll of the world’s Muslims

When it comes to destroying religious sites the only two I heard of are Talibon and ISIS, both considered to be extremist groups.

You are going to have to read more about shrines being blown up with pilgrims in them. By the way, did you happen to read the article I posted about a town in Iraq that has a shrine, but the city was originally Christian so they are wiping out the evidence that the Christians were there. I wouldn't call that being tolerant.

Are you talking about the Cave of Patriarchs massacre?

No, I am not. I can't understand why it is so difficult for you to believe that there are not many, many Muslims who are intolerant of others if they don't have the same religious beliefs. No one is saying that all Muslims are like that; however, there are quite a few who are. For instance, when an old church in Cairo was being renovated a few years back, thousands of Muslims showed up protesting this.
 
Arabs wanted everyone to convert in every faith.

What do you mean?
There were christians in the south and jews in the north in Khaybar and paganists in this region, most have converted to Islam.
Arabic language exist before judaism and christianism.
Forced conversion is not allowed in Islam.
Let There Be No Compulsion in Religion - The Religion of Islam


and yet so many have been killed because they convert or believe in the christian faith
churches or the bible is not allowed in most of arabia.
Chritians that word at the pleasure of saudi, live in compounds/ghettos apart from muslims.
Christians in their own homes have been arrested for praying in groups.

What is that about no compulsion of religion???????
Not unique to Islam.

so? of what significance is the fact that there were times and places
in which religion was just as restricted and IMPOSED as it is today
thruout the "Islamic world" ? There were times and places in which
people were cannibals too.


still are cannibals, both out of necessity and choice

I did not want to mention it------today being Good Friday. I often take a look
at recipe sites--------never encountered any human recipes. I have an old copy
of "THE JOY OF COOKING"-------with recipes for squirrel and a complete guide
to the preparation---from newly dead bear------to yummy supper-----but nothing
HUMAN.
 
Again, the problem isn't really the Muslim culture at large Sally - it's the mindset of these extremists, which is little different than extremists elsewhere. Intolerance and destruction of the culture and history of anyone who is outside their sect. The thing about ISIS is it's less about religion than power. I was listening to NPR recently, talking about some of the people attracted to ISIS now - people with violent criminal backgrounds who can find an "outlet" for their violence in the guise of religion.

Sectarian warfare is nothing unique to Islam - witness the Irish sectarian conflict that went on for years. Or, the Bosnian conflict. Just recently Radazan Karadzic was found guilty of genocide and crimes against humanity. You have a region with not just religious sectarian splits but ethnic and tribal splits and multiple failed or failing states.


I have to differ with you here, Coyote. If you have been following the news in the Muslim world even before the start of ISIS, you would have read about the Muslims killing and destroying the religious sites of others who are non Muslims or are Muslims of different sects. So sad to realize how these Muslims, whether Sunni, Shia, or some other sect, are happy to be going on a pilgrimage to one of their shrines and instead are murdered by some other sect. One would think that in this modern world that these so-called extremists would have some tolerance for those who have different religious beliefs. Let us not forget that they are not loathe to use modern technology such as the Internet, so why is it that difficult to employ religious tolerance? And let us also not forget those clerics who feel the Infidels are descended from pigs and dogs and should be killed. That means you, me and the rest of us here. By the way, since you mention criminals in ISIS, I have also read about that, but how do you account for doctors, nurses, engineers and other educated people who previously were not criminals but living a middle class life leaving everything to join up with ISIS. What is it in the religion that makes people do that?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/w...raq-fire-mortars-into-shiite-shrine.html?_r=0

Time for Shias to leave Pakistan - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Nine things you’ll learn from Pew’s poll of the world’s Muslims

When it comes to destroying religious sites the only two I heard of are Talibon and ISIS, both considered to be extremist groups.

You are going to have to read more about shrines being blown up with pilgrims in them. By the way, did you happen to read the article I posted about a town in Iraq that has a shrine, but the city was originally Christian so they are wiping out the evidence that the Christians were there. I wouldn't call that being tolerant.

Are you talking about the Cave of Patriarchs massacre?

No, I am not. I can't understand why it is so difficult for you to believe that there are not many, many Muslims who are intolerant of others if they don't have the same religious beliefs. No one is saying that all Muslims are like that; however, there are quite a few who are. For instance, when an old church in Cairo was being renovated a few years back, thousands of Muslims showed up protesting this.

I think there are MANY people who are intolerant of others.
 
What do you mean?
There were christians in the south and jews in the north in Khaybar and paganists in this region, most have converted to Islam.
Arabic language exist before judaism and christianism.
Forced conversion is not allowed in Islam.
Let There Be No Compulsion in Religion - The Religion of Islam


and yet so many have been killed because they convert or believe in the christian faith
churches or the bible is not allowed in most of arabia.
Chritians that word at the pleasure of saudi, live in compounds/ghettos apart from muslims.
Christians in their own homes have been arrested for praying in groups.

What is that about no compulsion of religion???????
Not unique to Islam.

so? of what significance is the fact that there were times and places
in which religion was just as restricted and IMPOSED as it is today
thruout the "Islamic world" ? There were times and places in which
people were cannibals too.


still are cannibals, both out of necessity and choice

I did not want to mention it------today being Good Friday. I often take a look
at recipe sites--------never encountered any human recipes. I have an old copy
of "THE JOY OF COOKING"-------with recipes for squirrel and a complete guide
to the preparation---from newly dead bear------to yummy supper-----but nothing
HUMAN.

Dang...not even one for you know..."rocky mountain oysters" of the homosapiens variety?
 
Again, the problem isn't really the Muslim culture at large Sally - it's the mindset of these extremists, which is little different than extremists elsewhere. Intolerance and destruction of the culture and history of anyone who is outside their sect. The thing about ISIS is it's less about religion than power. I was listening to NPR recently, talking about some of the people attracted to ISIS now - people with violent criminal backgrounds who can find an "outlet" for their violence in the guise of religion.

Sectarian warfare is nothing unique to Islam - witness the Irish sectarian conflict that went on for years. Or, the Bosnian conflict. Just recently Radazan Karadzic was found guilty of genocide and crimes against humanity. You have a region with not just religious sectarian splits but ethnic and tribal splits and multiple failed or failing states.


I have to differ with you here, Coyote. If you have been following the news in the Muslim world even before the start of ISIS, you would have read about the Muslims killing and destroying the religious sites of others who are non Muslims or are Muslims of different sects. So sad to realize how these Muslims, whether Sunni, Shia, or some other sect, are happy to be going on a pilgrimage to one of their shrines and instead are murdered by some other sect. One would think that in this modern world that these so-called extremists would have some tolerance for those who have different religious beliefs. Let us not forget that they are not loathe to use modern technology such as the Internet, so why is it that difficult to employ religious tolerance? And let us also not forget those clerics who feel the Infidels are descended from pigs and dogs and should be killed. That means you, me and the rest of us here. By the way, since you mention criminals in ISIS, I have also read about that, but how do you account for doctors, nurses, engineers and other educated people who previously were not criminals but living a middle class life leaving everything to join up with ISIS. What is it in the religion that makes people do that?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/w...raq-fire-mortars-into-shiite-shrine.html?_r=0

Time for Shias to leave Pakistan - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Nine things you’ll learn from Pew’s poll of the world’s Muslims

When it comes to destroying religious sites the only two I heard of are Talibon and ISIS, both considered to be extremist groups.

You are going to have to read more about shrines being blown up with pilgrims in them. By the way, did you happen to read the article I posted about a town in Iraq that has a shrine, but the city was originally Christian so they are wiping out the evidence that the Christians were there. I wouldn't call that being tolerant.

Are you talking about the Cave of Patriarchs massacre?


not iraq

the cave of Patriarchs massacre had nothing to do with destroying a shrine.
Hindus lost lots to the destroy or change into mosque program over the past
thousand years------in fact there were once synagogues in what is now Pakistan
too. --------of course churches too----but I know of no specific cases
 
I have to differ with you here, Coyote. If you have been following the news in the Muslim world even before the start of ISIS, you would have read about the Muslims killing and destroying the religious sites of others who are non Muslims or are Muslims of different sects. So sad to realize how these Muslims, whether Sunni, Shia, or some other sect, are happy to be going on a pilgrimage to one of their shrines and instead are murdered by some other sect. One would think that in this modern world that these so-called extremists would have some tolerance for those who have different religious beliefs. Let us not forget that they are not loathe to use modern technology such as the Internet, so why is it that difficult to employ religious tolerance? And let us also not forget those clerics who feel the Infidels are descended from pigs and dogs and should be killed. That means you, me and the rest of us here. By the way, since you mention criminals in ISIS, I have also read about that, but how do you account for doctors, nurses, engineers and other educated people who previously were not criminals but living a middle class life leaving everything to join up with ISIS. What is it in the religion that makes people do that?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/w...raq-fire-mortars-into-shiite-shrine.html?_r=0

Time for Shias to leave Pakistan - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Nine things you’ll learn from Pew’s poll of the world’s Muslims

When it comes to destroying religious sites the only two I heard of are Talibon and ISIS, both considered to be extremist groups.

You are going to have to read more about shrines being blown up with pilgrims in them. By the way, did you happen to read the article I posted about a town in Iraq that has a shrine, but the city was originally Christian so they are wiping out the evidence that the Christians were there. I wouldn't call that being tolerant.

Are you talking about the Cave of Patriarchs massacre?

No, I am not. I can't understand why it is so difficult for you to believe that there are not many, many Muslims who are intolerant of others if they don't have the same religious beliefs. No one is saying that all Muslims are like that; however, there are quite a few who are. For instance, when an old church in Cairo was being renovated a few years back, thousands of Muslims showed up protesting this.

I think there are MANY people who are intolerant of others.

Of course there are, but they don't resort to violence. I have wondered, after reading a lot of articles, why such a large percent of converts to Islam (it said 25%) resort to terrorism. Do you have any explanation for this?
 
I have to differ with you here, Coyote. If you have been following the news in the Muslim world even before the start of ISIS, you would have read about the Muslims killing and destroying the religious sites of others who are non Muslims or are Muslims of different sects. So sad to realize how these Muslims, whether Sunni, Shia, or some other sect, are happy to be going on a pilgrimage to one of their shrines and instead are murdered by some other sect. One would think that in this modern world that these so-called extremists would have some tolerance for those who have different religious beliefs. Let us not forget that they are not loathe to use modern technology such as the Internet, so why is it that difficult to employ religious tolerance? And let us also not forget those clerics who feel the Infidels are descended from pigs and dogs and should be killed. That means you, me and the rest of us here. By the way, since you mention criminals in ISIS, I have also read about that, but how do you account for doctors, nurses, engineers and other educated people who previously were not criminals but living a middle class life leaving everything to join up with ISIS. What is it in the religion that makes people do that?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/w...raq-fire-mortars-into-shiite-shrine.html?_r=0

Time for Shias to leave Pakistan - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Indonesia’s growing religious intolerance has to be addressed | Elaine Pearson

Nine things you’ll learn from Pew’s poll of the world’s Muslims

When it comes to destroying religious sites the only two I heard of are Talibon and ISIS, both considered to be extremist groups.

You are going to have to read more about shrines being blown up with pilgrims in them. By the way, did you happen to read the article I posted about a town in Iraq that has a shrine, but the city was originally Christian so they are wiping out the evidence that the Christians were there. I wouldn't call that being tolerant.

Are you talking about the Cave of Patriarchs massacre?

No, I am not. I can't understand why it is so difficult for you to believe that there are not many, many Muslims who are intolerant of others if they don't have the same religious beliefs. No one is saying that all Muslims are like that; however, there are quite a few who are. For instance, when an old church in Cairo was being renovated a few years back, thousands of Muslims showed up protesting this.

I think there are MANY people who are intolerant of others.

absolutely true------more or less------some peoples a lot more than others and some
a lot less than others.
 
When it comes to destroying religious sites the only two I heard of are Talibon and ISIS, both considered to be extremist groups.

You are going to have to read more about shrines being blown up with pilgrims in them. By the way, did you happen to read the article I posted about a town in Iraq that has a shrine, but the city was originally Christian so they are wiping out the evidence that the Christians were there. I wouldn't call that being tolerant.

Are you talking about the Cave of Patriarchs massacre?

No, I am not. I can't understand why it is so difficult for you to believe that there are not many, many Muslims who are intolerant of others if they don't have the same religious beliefs. No one is saying that all Muslims are like that; however, there are quite a few who are. For instance, when an old church in Cairo was being renovated a few years back, thousands of Muslims showed up protesting this.

I think there are MANY people who are intolerant of others.

Of course there are, but they don't resort to violence. I have wondered, after reading a lot of articles, why such a large percent of converts to Islam (it said 25%) resort to terrorism. Do you have any explanation for this?

Do 25% of converts to Islam resort to terrorism?
 
and yet so many have been killed because they convert or believe in the christian faith
churches or the bible is not allowed in most of arabia.
Chritians that word at the pleasure of saudi, live in compounds/ghettos apart from muslims.
Christians in their own homes have been arrested for praying in groups.

What is that about no compulsion of religion???????
Not unique to Islam.

so? of what significance is the fact that there were times and places
in which religion was just as restricted and IMPOSED as it is today
thruout the "Islamic world" ? There were times and places in which
people were cannibals too.


still are cannibals, both out of necessity and choice

I did not want to mention it------today being Good Friday. I often take a look
at recipe sites--------never encountered any human recipes. I have an old copy
of "THE JOY OF COOKING"-------with recipes for squirrel and a complete guide
to the preparation---from newly dead bear------to yummy supper-----but nothing
HUMAN.

Dang...not even one for you know..."rocky mountain oysters" of the homosapiens variety?

nope-----I am confident that there is a recipe for SOME types of "oysters" of
the fields-------but not human. ONE COULD ADAPT
 

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