Apply conservative valued to immigration reform

ElmerMudd

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When possible I agree we should have solutions to social problems that cost the least and require a minimal amount of government intervention; conservative values.

The Arizona solution put together by conservatives costs more money and involves more governemnt than is necessary.

Go after the businesses employing the illegals rather than the illegals. If the jobs are not there, the illegals will not come and the majority will leave.
It requires less money and less government to go check thousands of businesses rather than millions of people.

The reason Arizona conservatives and national conservatives do not go after businesses is because that is their base and those are the ones that donate to their campaign.
 

Oddball

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Getting rid of the socialistic welfare state and ending the brain dead "war" on (some) drugs is the real old school conservative approach to this, as those who came to America would have to pull their own weight.

But even talk about paring back those fool policies, and the left would mess their pants on a daily basis.
 
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ElmerMudd

ElmerMudd

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Getting rid of the socialistic welfare state and ending the brain dead "war" on (some) drugs is the real old school conservative approach to this, as those who came to America would have to pull their own weight.

But even talk about paring back those fool policies, and the left would mess their pants on a daily basis.
I do not disagree with you totally on the two issues.

But those issues can be dealt with seperately.

In the mean time, I feel the most efficient and effective way to reduce illegal immigrants in the US is to go after the businesses who hire the illegals .
I feel the majority of illegals come for jobs not the social programs. Once they get here they end up falling into the social welfare programs because of the dirt wages and benefit they get in the jobs.
If you eliminate the jobs the majority will stop coming and the majority will leave.
 

Oddball

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No, they can't be dealt with separately, as they are part and parcel to the problem.

In the meantime, federal ignoring of and refusal to enforce their own laws is going to leave the states no choice but to act on their own to do so.

Deal with it.
 

WillowTree

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when possible i agree we should have solutions to social problems that cost the least and require a minimal amount of government intervention; conservative values.

The arizona solution put together by conservatives costs more money and involves more governemnt than is necessary.

Go after the businesses employing the illegals rather than the illegals. If the jobs are not there, the illegals will not come and the majority will leave.
It requires less money and less government to go check thousands of businesses rather than millions of people.

The reason arizona conservatives and national conservatives do not go after businesses is because that is their base and those are the ones that donate to their campaign.
once again you stupid ignorant asshole,, going after business does nothing to stop the drug cartels, murders, kidnapping and illegal drug smuggling so stick that "go after business meme up yer arizona azz.
 

CrusaderFrank

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Can we go after the people registering them to vote?

Can we go after the schools that educate them and the hospitals that treat them?
 
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ElmerMudd

ElmerMudd

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when possible i agree we should have solutions to social problems that cost the least and require a minimal amount of government intervention; conservative values.

The arizona solution put together by conservatives costs more money and involves more governemnt than is necessary.

Go after the businesses employing the illegals rather than the illegals. If the jobs are not there, the illegals will not come and the majority will leave.
It requires less money and less government to go check thousands of businesses rather than millions of people.

The reason arizona conservatives and national conservatives do not go after businesses is because that is their base and those are the ones that donate to their campaign.
once again you stupid ignorant asshole,, going after business does nothing to stop the drug cartels, murders, kidnapping and illegal drug smuggling so stick that "go after business meme up yer arizona azz.
You have a pea brain.

The drug smugglers and the cartel drug wars is different from the illegals coming here tom work.
If you solve the problem of illegal immigrants coming here to work, you would still have the problem of illegal drug smugglers and drug wars.

Both have to be dealt with but there are seperate solutions.

You are absolutely wacko. One minute you are using goofy baby or kitten talk then the next minute you are angry and cussing like a sailor.
 

Oddball

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The problem in the border cities and states isn't with the migrant workers, it's with the extremely violent drug gangs....This is where several bad policies meet to create a bigger problem than the sum of their parts.
 
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ElmerMudd

ElmerMudd

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Can we go after the people registering them to vote?

Can we go after the schools that educate them and the hospitals that treat them?
Stop the jobs. Then we will not have illegals coming using our schools, medical care or trying to vote.
 

Oddball

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Can we go after the people registering them to vote?

Can we go after the schools that educate them and the hospitals that treat them?
Stop the jobs. Then we will not have illegals coming using our schools, medical care or trying to vote.
Why should schools and hospitals be left off the hook for enforcing the law?

Besides that, drug gang hooligans aren't interested in normal jobs..
 
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ElmerMudd

ElmerMudd

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The problem in the border cities and states isn't with the migrant workers, it's with the extremely violent drug gangs....This is where several bad policies meet to create a bigger problem than the sum of their parts.
The issues of illegals coming here to work is different from the drug wars.
There is some overlap but overall both problems have seperate solutions.

I see the purpose of the Arizona law is to address the illegal worker issue. It will have some affect on the drug wars but more needs to be done to deal with the drug wars.
 

JScott

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when possible i agree we should have solutions to social problems that cost the least and require a minimal amount of government intervention; conservative values.

The arizona solution put together by conservatives costs more money and involves more governemnt than is necessary.

Go after the businesses employing the illegals rather than the illegals. If the jobs are not there, the illegals will not come and the majority will leave.
It requires less money and less government to go check thousands of businesses rather than millions of people.

The reason arizona conservatives and national conservatives do not go after businesses is because that is their base and those are the ones that donate to their campaign.
once again you stupid ignorant asshole,, going after business does nothing to stop the drug cartels, murders, kidnapping and illegal drug smuggling so stick that "go after business meme up yer arizona azz.
You have a pea brain.

The drug smugglers and the cartel drug wars is different from the illegals coming here tom work.
If you solve the problem of illegal immigrants coming here to work, you would still have the problem of illegal drug smugglers and drug wars.

Both have to be dealt with but there are separate solutions.

You are absolutely wacko. One minute you are using goofy baby or kitten talk then the next minute you are angry and cussing like a sailor.
Have to agree here. There is no reason why both situations cant be dealt with simultaneously, as it should be.

Businesses should be fined hugely for hiring illegal aliens. Drug laws should also be relaxed to dissuade drug trafficking.

I also agree, Willow, that you are beyond an intelligent discussion on anything political. You fail to think outside the box on any issue. Thats all there is to say.
 

Oddball

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The problem in the border cities and states isn't with the migrant workers, it's with the extremely violent drug gangs....This is where several bad policies meet to create a bigger problem than the sum of their parts.
The issues of illegals coming here to work is different from the drug wars.
There is some overlap but overall both problems have seperate solutions.

I see the purpose of the Arizona law is to address the illegal worker issue. It will have some affect on the drug wars but more needs to be done to deal with the drug wars.
The Arizona law is to address the border issue...Period.

The issue is being dealt with by the state because the feds are doing NOTHING to enforce the law, at virtually any and every level.
 

WillowTree

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when possible i agree we should have solutions to social problems that cost the least and require a minimal amount of government intervention; conservative values.

The arizona solution put together by conservatives costs more money and involves more governemnt than is necessary.

Go after the businesses employing the illegals rather than the illegals. If the jobs are not there, the illegals will not come and the majority will leave.
It requires less money and less government to go check thousands of businesses rather than millions of people.

The reason arizona conservatives and national conservatives do not go after businesses is because that is their base and those are the ones that donate to their campaign.
once again you stupid ignorant asshole,, going after business does nothing to stop the drug cartels, murders, kidnapping and illegal drug smuggling so stick that "go after business meme up yer arizona azz.
You have a pea brain.

The drug smugglers and the cartel drug wars is different from the illegals coming here tom work.
If you solve the problem of illegal immigrants coming here to work, you would still have the problem of illegal drug smugglers and drug wars.

Both have to be dealt with but there are seperate solutions.

You are absolutely wacko. One minute you are using goofy baby or kitten talk then the next minute you are angry and cussing like a sailor.
I may be whacko jacko but at least I have the ability to focus on the the problem that drove Arizona to pass their law.. DUmmie.
 

WillowTree

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once again you stupid ignorant asshole,, going after business does nothing to stop the drug cartels, murders, kidnapping and illegal drug smuggling so stick that "go after business meme up yer arizona azz.
You have a pea brain.

The drug smugglers and the cartel drug wars is different from the illegals coming here tom work.
If you solve the problem of illegal immigrants coming here to work, you would still have the problem of illegal drug smugglers and drug wars.

Both have to be dealt with but there are separate solutions.

You are absolutely wacko. One minute you are using goofy baby or kitten talk then the next minute you are angry and cussing like a sailor.
Have to agree here. There is no reason why both situations cant be dealt with simultaneously, as it should be.

Businesses should be fined hugely for hiring illegal aliens. Drug laws should also be relaxed to dissuade drug trafficking.

I also agree, Willow, that you are beyond an intelligent discussion on anything political. You fail to think outside the box on any issue. Thats all there is to say.
what a crock of shit, you only goddamn answer to illegal drug trafficking is to make drug addicts out of generations of American children..you need to crawl in da box.
 

Harry Dresden

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The reason Arizona conservatives and national conservatives do not go after businesses is because that is their base and those are the ones that donate to their campaign.
:lol:.....oh christ another Deanite.....hey Elmer.....same can be said of the Democrats.....you notice how they are doing allot to solve the problem....
 

Oddball

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what a crock of shit, you only goddamn answer to illegal drug trafficking is to make drug addicts out of generations of American children..you need to crawl in da box.
Really?

Are you saying that if the drug laws were all repealed tomorrow, you'll be down at the pharmacy picking up an ounce of coke as soon as you can?
 

froggy

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When possible I agree we should have solutions to social problems that cost the least and require a minimal amount of government intervention; conservative values.

The Arizona solution put together by conservatives costs more money and involves more governemnt than is necessary.

Go after the businesses employing the illegals rather than the illegals. If the jobs are not there, the illegals will not come and the majority will leave.
It requires less money and less government to go check thousands of businesses rather than millions of people.

The reason Arizona conservatives and national conservatives do not go after businesses is because that is their base and those are the ones that donate to their campaign.
Why not do both?
 
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ElmerMudd

ElmerMudd

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The reason Arizona conservatives and national conservatives do not go after businesses is because that is their base and those are the ones that donate to their campaign.
:lol:.....oh christ another Deanite.....hey Elmer.....same can be said of the Democrats.....you notice how they are doing allot to solve the problem....
agreed
 
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ElmerMudd

ElmerMudd

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When possible I agree we should have solutions to social problems that cost the least and require a minimal amount of government intervention; conservative values.

The Arizona solution put together by conservatives costs more money and involves more governemnt than is necessary.

Go after the businesses employing the illegals rather than the illegals. If the jobs are not there, the illegals will not come and the majority will leave.
It requires less money and less government to go check thousands of businesses rather than millions of people.

The reason Arizona conservatives and national conservatives do not go after businesses is because that is their base and those are the ones that donate to their campaign.
Why not do both?
To go after individuals as aggressively as the Arizona laws dictates is expensive, it reqires many hours of law enforcement officers time that can be used to fight crime in our cities and towns and it gets very messy on how you apply the law.
I believe we should not create safe havens for illegals. We should enforce citizenship laws in the normal course of law enforcement.
Putting the resources toward going after employers instead of individuals will give us more bang for the buck.
 

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