Apparently I've got a bad reputation

Powerman

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Jul 23, 2005
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here....

People ask me why I have problems with religion. I'll tell you why. Religion is based on scriptures that are barbaric in nature. Luckily no one reads them. Here is a great example of what I'm talking about. Today's bible lesson about warfare.

From the book of Genesis:

Genesis 34

6 Then Shechem's father Hamor went out to talk with Jacob. 7 Now Jacob's sons had come in from the fields as soon as they heard what had happened. They were filled with grief and fury, because Shechem had done a disgraceful thing in Israel by lying with Jacob's daughter—a thing that should not be done.

8 But Hamor said to them, "My son Shechem has his heart set on your daughter. Please give her to him as his wife. 9 Intermarry with us; give us your daughters and take our daughters for yourselves. 10 You can settle among us; the land is open to you. Live in it, trade in it, and acquire property in it."

11 Then Shechem said to Dinah's father and brothers, "Let me find favor in your eyes, and I will give you whatever you ask. 12 Make the price for the bride and the gift I am to bring as great as you like, and I'll pay whatever you ask me. Only give me the girl as my wife."

13 Because their sister Dinah had been defiled, Jacob's sons replied deceitfully as they spoke to Shechem and his father Hamor. 14 They said to them, "We can't do such a thing; we can't give our sister to a man who is not circumcised. That would be a disgrace to us. 15 We will give our consent to you on one condition only: that you become like us by circumcising all your males. 16 Then we will give you our daughters and take your daughters for ourselves. We'll settle among you and become one people with you. 17 But if you will not agree to be circumcised, we'll take our sister and go."

18 Their proposal seemed good to Hamor and his son Shechem. 19 The young man, who was the most honored of all his father's household, lost no time in doing what they said, because he was delighted with Jacob's daughter. 20 So Hamor and his son Shechem went to the gate of their city to speak to their fellow townsmen. 21 "These men are friendly toward us," they said. "Let them live in our land and trade in it; the land has plenty of room for them. We can marry their daughters and they can marry ours. 22 But the men will consent to live with us as one people only on the condition that our males be circumcised, as they themselves are. 23 Won't their livestock, their property and all their other animals become ours? So let us give our consent to them, and they will settle among us."

24 All the men who went out of the city gate agreed with Hamor and his son Shechem, and every male in the city was circumcised.

25 Three days later, while all of them were still in pain, two of Jacob's sons, Simeon and Levi, Dinah's brothers, took their swords and attacked the unsuspecting city, killing every male. 26 They put Hamor and his son Shechem to the sword and took Dinah from Shechem's house and left. 27 The sons of Jacob came upon the dead bodies and looted the city where their sister had been defiled. 28 They seized their flocks and herds and donkeys and everything else of theirs in the city and out in the fields. 29 They carried off all their wealth and all their women and children, taking as plunder everything in the houses.




See, what happens here is the Israelites get into a treaty with King Hamar, and agree for Dinah to get married to his son, but the Isrealites only agree to it if the whole city gets circumcised.

Then, when they are still recovering from the circumcisions, the Israelites go back in and kill them all, and take their wealth, women, and children. It's genius.

But honestly what lesson can we learn from such barbaric low life war tactics? It's lunacy.


Sadly enough this isn't even that bad of a story compared to many in the bible.
 
manu1959 said:
what about the religions that are not based on scriptures?

Well I suppose I'd have to look into what they are based on before I passed judgement or speculated on such. Obviously I'm well versed in Christianity. Don't know much about the other religions however. I'm interested in doing some research on other religions though.

Which religion were you referring to?
 
Powerman said:
Obviously I'm well versed in Christianity.


Translation - I love taking scripture about certain things - some of which I refuse to understand, and using it to paint broad brush-strokes about a particular faith.

(shrug).
 
Powerman said:
Well I suppose I'd have to look into what they are based on before I passed judgement or speculated on such. Obviously I'm well versed in Christianity. Don't know much about the other religions however. I'm interested in doing some research on other religions though.

Which religion were you referring to?

Depending on Sect, Buddhism is not based in scripture.
 
-=d=- said:
Translation - I love taking scripture about certain things - some of which I refuse to understand, and using it to paint broad brush-strokes about a particular faith.

(shrug).

I said on another thread that I believe Christianity has a net positive on society. I don't see why that makes it immune to criticism however. And my problems are more with the bible than Christians themselves. It's an book written by savages.
 
Do you even know what the culture of the people who followed Hamor was like?
 
LuvRPgrl said:
Do you even know what the culture of the people who followed Hamor was like?

They can't be any worse than the damn Hebrews.
 
Powerman said:
Well I suppose I'd have to look into what they are based on before I passed judgement or speculated on such. Obviously I'm well versed in Christianity. Don't know much about the other religions however. I'm interested in doing some research on other religions though.

Which religion were you referring to?

well the only religion on know of that is founded in the scriptures you refer to is christianity....that would mean all of the others are not...but if you are going to tell me that hinduism and islam and the rest are founded on christian scrptiures then i am going to laugh at you
 
Powerman said:
I said on another thread that I believe Christianity has a net positive on society. I don't see why that makes it immune to criticism however. And my problems are more with the bible than Christians themselves. It's an book written by savages.

So now you are a 'non-religious' anti-Semite? :eek2:
 
Kathianne said:
So now you are a 'non-religious' anti-Semite? :eek2:

No. I like Jews. I dated one for a while actually. My point is in those times everyone was stupid and primitive and barbaric. Why you would think that they were morally superior than other cultures is beyond me. You always here about the other people in the bible being "wicked." What could they possibly be doing that would be worse than what the Israelites did? Genocide is about as bad as at gets sweetheart.
 
manu1959 said:
well the only religion on know of that is founded in the scriptures you refer to is christianity....that would mean all of the others are not...but if you are going to tell me that hinduism and islam and the rest are founded on christian scrptiures then i am going to laugh at you

Islam is founded on the Koran which does have some similarities to Christian scriptures. A lot of the names are different via translation and the stories aren't exactly the same but they are based on some form of scripture.
 
Powerman said:
No. I like Jews. I dated one for a while actually. My point is in those times everyone was stupid and primitive and barbaric. Why you would think that they were morally superior than other cultures is beyond me. You always here about the other people in the bible being "wicked." What could they possibly be doing that would be worse than what the Israelites did? Genocide is about as bad as at gets sweetheart.

Do NOT call me sweetheart, bubba.
 
Powerman said:
No. I like Jews. I dated one for a while actually. My point is in those times everyone was stupid and primitive and barbaric. Why you would think that they were morally superior than other cultures is beyond me. You always here about the other people in the bible being "wicked." What could they possibly be doing that would be worse than what the Israelites did? Genocide is about as bad as at gets sweetheart.

ah the dirty hands argument .... they were evil but wrote a book to teach moral and ethical guidelines to become good .... thus the book is bad and should not be used .... but they used this book as a guiding principal to become good ... so beacuse they were once bad they are beyond redemption and thus their teachings and attempts at righting a wrong should be invalidated.
 
Kathianne said:
Do NOT call me sweetheart, bubba.

You called me an anti-semite. I think it should be permissible for me to call you something that ISN'T derogatory.
 
manu1959 said:
ah the dirty hands argument .... they were evil but wrote a book to teach moral and ethical guidelines to become good .... thus the book is bad and should not be used .... but they used this book as a guiding principal to become good ... so beacuse they were once bad they are beyond redemption and thus their teachings and attempts at righting a wrong should be invalidated.

Apparently you don't understand the way I think. I don't think that they wrote the books or passed down the stories for the sake of good only. They weren't "evil" as you call it. They were just stupid primitive savages like most others of their time. They made up the idea of a vengeful God as a fear tactic to get people to do what they told them to do. Not all of the old laws are anything any Christian would now consider just. It wasn't until the 10 commandments that things really took a positive term for them morally. The new testament provides much more positive morals as well but everything before the 10 commandments in the bible is immoral trash for the most part.
 
Powerman said:
You called me an anti-semite. I think it should be permissible for me to call you something that ISN'T derogatory.
Based on what you posted. Do we have a relationship I'm unaware of? :shocked:
 
Kathianne said:
Based on what you posted. Do we have a relationship I'm unaware of? :shocked:

No we don't. I didn't mean it in a romantic way. Just forget it. You're being an asshat about it.
 
Powerman said:
No we don't. I didn't mean it in a romantic way. Just forget it. You're being an asshat about it.

Do not use 'asshat' to refer to me either. Thank you.
 
Powerman said:
Apparently you don't understand the way I think. I don't think that they wrote the books or passed down the stories for the sake of good only. They weren't "evil" as you call it. They were just stupid primitive savages like most others of their time. They made up the idea of a vengeful God as a fear tactic to get people to do what they told them to do. Not all of the old laws are anything any Christian would now consider just. It wasn't until the 10 commandments that things really took a positive term for them morally. The new testament provides much more positive morals as well but everything before the 10 commandments in the bible is immoral trash for the most part.

please forgive me for not being able to read your mind ..... the bible i have read does not portray god as vengeful..... they bible i have read tells of things where there are consequences to actions .... same as real life ..... there are olde laws made by governments that are not just .... does that mean new ones can not be made by those governments ..... you seem very convinced and set in your ways .... if you change .... will those that knew you before call you stupid and primitive and savage ..... unlikley ... they will comend you for your growth .... and if they do not ....will you condemn them?
 

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