Anti-Trumpsters need to try and understand Trump supporters.

[Deplorable Yankee]

The Democratic party helped every other down trodden group in America except those in need in middle America

Damn the brainwashers did an awesome job on you

 

[Pogo]

That keeps the Duopoly in place and ensures that no 3P will ever be viable.

Voter ignorance spurred on/exploited by unscrupulous politicians is why there are only 2 choices- the EC has nothing to do with it outside of representative voting, which is the foundation of our republic and was determined by people a lot smarter than anyone I've met in my 72 years on this earth, to be the best alternative vs a democracy, which is what those clamoring for doing away with desire- have you ever noticed the politicians and talking heads and print reporters always call us a democracy? Why do you think that is? We're a representative republic- I believe it is an intentional tool trying to desensitize the not too bright and actually create a democracy which is no more than mob rule- Individual rights take enough of a beating from our current situation- to make us a true democracy you van kiss your individual rights good bye- they will be restricted into non existence- sooner rather than later-

The EC has *everything* to do with preserving Duopoly. Which is not to suggest it's the sole factor, but --- why do you think I brought up the several states that could not come to a state agreement on a choice for POTUS?

The infamous Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania --- as well as Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, Colorado, AridZona, even frickin' UTAH --- not one of them could field 50% of their vote for any candidate, yet ALL of them sent 100% of their vote to one or the other side of the Duopoly. And those are just the ones off the top of my head.

And that's because the Duopoly and its tools like the WTA/EC ensure that without exception those states' voters are going to get the Hobson's Choice of "Horrible" and "Even More Horrible", and if you're the same age as me you already know that's the pattern and I defy you to find an exception in our lifetimes. That's because those voters end up voting not FOR Candidate X but AGAINST Candidate Y, like some grand game of Tic Tac Toe where you know you can't win and your only hope is to prevent the worse of two evils from winning. Election Day is reduced to "Paul Lynde for the block".

Thus, the Duopoly has no incentive to run any kind of quality candidate. It KNOWS going in that one of its faces or the other is going to prevail, therefore all either side has to do is run some weasel who can be sold as less of a weasel than the other side runs. AGAIN, find me a historical exception. It's the old punchline of "I don't need to outrun that bear; I only need to outrun YOU".

So here's what we have:

If you're a voter in a so-called "red" or "blue" state --- completely bogus concepts which would not even exist if the WTA/EC did not create them ---- you have four choices in a POTUS election: One, you can vote with your state, red in red, blue in blue, Two, you can vote against your state: red in blue, blue in red: Three, you can cast a protest vote for a "third party" (as frickin' Utah notably did); or Four, you can stay home and bake a pizza. ALL FOUR of those give you the exact same result with the only difference being that in Scenario Four, you get pizza. Thus you have no reason to go vote at all other than downballot stuff like your Congressional Rep and local propositions.

If you're in a so-called "battleground" state (another illegitimate concept which would not exist etc), your POTUS vote actually means something --- it means the absolute minimal ability to block the Tic Tac Toe board by voting AGAINST that side of the Duopoly you consider the worse, which you do by casting a vote for the candy most likely to keep him down, which is the other side of the Duopoly. No other action can possibly have any effect --- again see the list of undecided states above.

NONE of those are positive reasons to vote at all and it's a major reason our voter turnout is so pathetic (in 2016, 55% which is typical, and which in a comparable "Western" nation purporting to run itself by the electoral consent of the governed would be considered a national shame). Because what's the point. Only a so-called "swing" state voter has any shot at making an impact and THEIR choice is still limited to TWO, which is what the duo in "Duopoly" means. Fer fux sake Ross Perot pulled almost a fifth of the national vote in 1992, even in that rigged system, and to show for it got ZERO electoral votes. That was a resounding reminder of Duopoly Über Alles and a clear shot across the bow of anyone with visions of challenging it with a "third" party.

(I put "third" in quotes here after Gore Vidal's astute observation decades ago: "As for a third party we tried that with the People's Party. Unfortunately we hadn't remembered that in order to have a third party you must first have two other parties". Clearly we do not. We have a single party, the Duopoly, which dresses itself in alternating red and blue uniforms, and we're supposed to think they're "different" and not look up the puppet strings.)

The last time ANY third party made any EC inroads at all was over a century ago with Theodore Roosevelt who had the advantage of name recognition from eight years in the White House, and the Duopoly STILL won.

That ain't no definition of "democracy" or "election" Bub. That's a definition of "racket".

As for parsing the definition of "democracy" it simply means we have a vote, which we don't ---- we have Vote Theater. An entirely rigged Vote Theater featuring the endless dichotomy of Red vs Blue and pay no attention to anything else. As for the phrase "mob rule" that one comes with its own argumentative suicide gene so I'll just let it shoot itself in the foot. "Mob rule" my ass. If the city council votes 5-3 against putting a traffic light at Squeeble and Dimbulb, that's not a "mob", it's a "vote".

a sample:
The Electoral College was created for two reasons. The first purpose was to create a buffer between the population and the selection of a President. The second as part of the structure of the government that gave extra power to the smaller states.

The first reason that the founders created the Electoral College is hard to understand today. The founding fathers were afraid of direct election to the Presidency. They feared a tyrant could manipulate public opinion and come to power. Hamilton wrote in the Federalist Papers:

It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations. It was also peculiarly desirable to afford as little opportunity as possible to tumult and disorder. This evil was not least to be dreaded in the election of a magistrate, who was to have so important an agency in the administration of the government as the President of the United States. But the precautions which have been so happily concerted in the system under consideration, promise an effectual security against this mischief.

Why the Electoral College

Today? It's no different than yesterday and all the excuses in the world won't change that- yes, EVERY POTUS has over reached his authority- which brings us full circle, doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is crazy- left, right, left, right, left, right- and make no mistake, democracy will be no different in that regard- the same destination just a different rate of descent- hitting a brick wall at 100mph will kill you as easily as hitting it at 110mph- your political affiliation won't mean a thing- so, people ask; what can we do? My response is live your life to the best of your ability, beat them at their own game and leave your space a little better than you found it- Individual effort creates the Greater Good, naturally- it will not be legislated or mandated- simply because rules can and will be broken- see the ass clowns in the District of Criminals for evidence-

Two reasons are agreed, and to state them plainly replace the word "smaller" with the word "slave".

The Electoral College was created for two reasons. The first purpose was to create a buffer between the population and the selection of a President. The second as part of the structure of the government that gave extra power to the smaller states.

And btw the slave states were not on the whole "smaller", so this is just plain weasel-wording. If not for the inflated representation created by counting slaves as three-fifths of a person (while awarding them zero-fifths of a vote), those states would have balked at joining the Union. So that was a power move that while creating a larger and more capable country also tabled and prolonged the question of what to do about Slavery. That reason has of course been rendered superfluous and has been for a century and a half.

That's reason Two; as for reason One, it's also been rendered superfluous by so-called "faithless elector" laws, which REQUIRE --- REQUIRE --- electors to fall in with the insane WTA system that is in turn based on not even a majority of the state's vote but only a plurality (again see states listed). And that makes those state laws anti-Constitutional by nature inasmuch as the EC was supposed to be a deliberative body, not a gaggle of robots. In the last round the Elector who best exemplified the original purpose of the EC was the one who voted for Faith Spotted Eagle, who also had the luxury of being from a state without such a law. But these unConstitutional laws, and the rigged WTA/EC, and the so-called "Commission on Presidential Debates" which wrested control out of the hands of the nonpartisan League of Women Voters and into the direct hands of the Duopoly itself, along with complicit propaganda media relentlessly selling the same old dichotomy fallacy of "red or blue" ---- ensure that Duopoly Reigns Supreme, Forever or until challenged. And the EC is a big part of that machine. The longer we do nothing about it, the longer it will happily continue to run over us.

It's useful to note that no less a major architect OF the Electoral College, James Madison, wanted a Constitutional Amendment that would ban the then-emerging practice of WTA. Even in his lifetime and even though it benefitted his own state of Virginia, he could see the sinkhole it would lead to. And he was right and we still haven't fixed it.

 

[ElmerMudd]

So your insulting Trump supporters while saying at the same time we must not insult them and laugh at them. I have no doubt the Trump supporters see the major flaw here I doubt you do.

I am saying the Democrats support those in need; inner city, immigrants, minorities etc. But the Trump supporters are as in need as the groups the Democrats support. They need to help them also,
I think the Trump supporters do not like to admit they are in the same situation as the inner city and immigrant communities.

Then you clearly don't know or understand Trump supporters at all you are simply repeating the media driven narrative put out about them.

Would you please explain Trump supporters so I understand them.

 

[ElmerMudd]

The Democratic party helped every other down trodden group in America except those in need in middle America

Damn the brainwashers did an awesome job on you
View attachment 297346

Could you please unbrainwash me? Tell me where my statement is off base and what I should know that the media is not providing.

 

[Gdjjr]

Presidential Elections, 1789-2016

 

[Gdjjr]

Another Candidate

Holiday message from Vermin Supreme, Libertarian for President: ‘I dream of a world of holidays without cages’

 

[Gdjjr]

• Constitution Party
• Green Party of the US
• Libertarian Party
• Peace and Freedom Party
• Reform Party
• Socialist Party USA
• Vermont Progressive Party

Help yourselves guys

 

[watchingfromafar]

People, people, people, come down to earth with the rest of us. Trump’s success is his ability to lie and cheat; regardless of who he harms in the process.

The American public took these lies in hook, line and sinker believing he was the savior who would save us all.

Now that the public is beginning to realize Trump is nothing more than a pathological lying cheat his days in the White House are quickly coming to an end.
Good riddance to the stinking rubbish


-

 

[Pogo]

People, people, people, come down to earth with the rest of us. Trump’s success is his ability to lie and cheat; regardless of who he harms in the process.

The American public took these lies in hook, line and sinker believing he was the savior who would save us all.

Now that the public is beginning to realize Trump is nothing more than a pathological lying cheat his days in the White House are quickly coming to an end.
Good riddance to the stinking rubbish


-

Well, "the American public" didn't swallow it but 25% of the electorate did and that closed it.

 

[Pogo]

• Constitution Party
• Green Party of the US
• Libertarian Party
• Peace and Freedom Party
• Reform Party
• Socialist Party USA
• Vermont Progressive Party

Help yourselves guys

That's all very well but when the strongarming of the System pushes each and every one of them to the shadows and voters are faced with the stark reality that one side of the entrenched Duopoly or the other is going to get ALL of the votes of their state due to that stinking system, a vote for any of these fake alternatives amounts to a futile protest with all the resounding impact of the proverbial tree that falls in the forest with no one there to hear it.

Everyone knows their names ---- Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, Evan McMullin, Ralph Nader, etc etc. How many electoral votes did any of them get? One fewer than Faith Spotted Eagle.

 

[Gdjjr]

That's all very well but when the strongarming of the System pushes each and every one of them to the shadows and voters are faced with the stark reality that one side of the entrenched Duopoly or the other is going to get ALL of the votes of their state due to that stinking system, a vote for any of these fake alternatives amounts to a futile protest with all the resounding impact of the proverbial tree that falls in the forest with no one there to hear it.

Everyone knows their names ---- Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, Evan McMullin, Ralph Nader, etc etc. How many electoral votes did any of them get? One fewer than Faith Spotted Eagle.

And? If you continue on the same path, chances are really good that you'll remain on the same path- so don't complain when the path gets rocky, or uphill, or leads downhill faster than you like- the destination will remain unchanged, even slightly.

 

[watchingfromafar]

ALERT—ALERT-ALERT

Trump is trying to start a war in the Middle East because he believes he cannot be removed while at WAR

This is the sad truth, even if his actions get’s many American’s killed it is worth it; so Trump believes

-

 

[Uncensored2008]

Anti-Trumpsters need to try and understand Trump supporters; especially the Democratic party.
Anti-Trumpsters tend to see Trump supporters a under educated, under employed jokes who believe all of Trump's lies because they are too lazy to gain the skills required by a 21st century economy.

The Democratic party ignored a large swath of middle America. Many of these people lost their job because their skills no longer are in demand in the 21st century.
The Democratic party gave much attention to people in the inner city who are under-educated and under-employed. The Democratic party gave much attention to immigrants, both legal and illegal, who are under-educated and under-employed.
That opened the door for Trump to come in and take advantage of the ignored group in middle America. No one else was giving them attention. They were ripe to be conned and they have been conned by the best.

The Democratic party must come up with real solutions for the ignored group in middle America. They need to try and understand them and not just laugh at them.

What do you mean "anti-Trumpster?" Wouldn't that just be anti-Americans like you?

 

[Pogo]

That's all very well but when the strongarming of the System pushes each and every one of them to the shadows and voters are faced with the stark reality that one side of the entrenched Duopoly or the other is going to get ALL of the votes of their state due to that stinking system, a vote for any of these fake alternatives amounts to a futile protest with all the resounding impact of the proverbial tree that falls in the forest with no one there to hear it.

Everyone knows their names ---- Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, Evan McMullin, Ralph Nader, etc etc. How many electoral votes did any of them get? One fewer than Faith Spotted Eagle.

And? If you continue on the same path, chances are really good that you'll remain on the same path- so don't complain when the path gets rocky, or uphill, or leads downhill faster than you like- the destination will remain unchanged, even slightly.

Agreed, doing things the way we always did ensures that we'll get the results we always got, which means a POTUS choice between Bad and Even Worse. That's exactly why the System needs upheaval. The fact alone that only half of us even bother to vote is a screaming red flag indicator of that.