And the Ruling Is.....

[Mac1958]

.

So this isn't about "reproductive rights" or "women's health" or any of that bullshit. It's about who is paying to keep poor people from reproducing.

Great. Now at least we can all discuss this from a single point of reference.

.

Maybe if all males recused themselves from these discussions, we'd get to a sensible policy a lot sooner.

Here's the thing you wingnuts don't get about health insurance. The employee WORKED for that. He provided time, labor, skill that the employer lacked, and her compensation was in addition to salary health insurance.

In short, her insurance SHOULD cover what she and her doctor think are appropriate. NOT what the employer considers appropriate.

Or we could just do the breathtakingly rational thing of having universal health coverage for all citizens.

I agree. Well, I'd prefer a Medicare/Medicare Supplement-based system for all, a plan that would end our ridiculous, disjointed 5-payer (VA, Medicare, Medicaid, Group/Individual, indigent) joke of a system. You bet. I could provide a long, long list of the benefits of such a system.

Some "wingnut", huh? And by the way, do mean left wingnut or right wingnut?

I just can't get you folks to be honest about pretty much anything. And here, I finally narrow down the discussion to the heart of the matter, and you have to launch into name calling.

But I'm used to it!



.

 

[blackhawk]

Well we know the ruling so as I understand this there are 20 types of contraception the ACA requires employers to offer Hobby Lobby objected to 4 they will offer the other 16 that being the case this seems to be a bigger deal than it needed to be. As I have scanned through the post here I notice some of you have a big issue with what you say is Hobby Lobby telling a woman what type of contraception she can have but no problem with the government telling a business what type they have to offer that's interesting.

 

[Mac1958]

As I have scanned through the post here I notice some of you have a big issue with what you say is Hobby Lobby telling a woman what type of contraception she can have but no problem with the government telling a business what type they have to offer that's interesting.

Well, you have to remember that businesses are rich and greedy and mean and they didn't build that and roads and bridges 'n stuff, so tough shit for them.

.

 

[DiamondDave]

This should not have even been this close. The judges who rules against should be off the bench. There is no constitutional right to contraception. There is no any kind of right to contraception. And there is no infringement on the individual's freedom to go purchase it themselves. So it should not have even gone as far as it did to 'determine' whether the corporation has 'religious' views

In addition.. the additional 'stipulations' for emphasis were basically a liberal stab at the Hobby Lobby and other businesses

 

[daveman]

Which is why they will decide against Hobby Lobby.

So, how'd that work our for you, Iosef?

 

[jillian]

The question may become, if a person is forced to pay for abortion and birth control. Which could have far reaching implication if the SCOTUS rules no. What about those who buy into Obamacare? But let's say they rule just on if a company has to supply birth control to its employees. What if there was a small company run by Muslims. Say an owner and two employees, would the owner be required to supply BC and Abortion against their strongly held religious beliefs? That, simply, is what the SCOTUS is going to decide.

You are either a corporation or you are not

If you want to run your business as a family business, then do so

But if you choose to incorporate to provide your family legal protections from the decisions that you make then you can't claim that the corporation has the ethical and religious values of the family

You can't hide behind a corporation when it hurts you and claim individual rights when it helps you

HL is run by a family unlike most corporations. HL is not doing anything illegal nor underhanded, your implication is absurd.

and they're using their theocratic BS to deny others their rights. and the court allowed it.

disgusting.

 

[JoeB131]

I agree. Well, I'd prefer a Medicare/Medicare Supplement-based system for all, a plan that would end our ridiculous, disjointed 5-payer (VA, Medicare, Medicaid, Group/Individual, indigent) joke of a system. You bet. I could provide a long, long list of the benefits of such a system.

Some "wingnut", huh? And by the way, do mean left wingnut or right wingnut?

I just can't get you folks to be honest about pretty much anything. And here, I finally narrow down the discussion to the heart of the matter, and you have to launch into name calling.

But I'm used to it!

.

Whatever guy.

HEre's the ONLY divide I see in the world

Rich People.

___________________________

Working folks trying to get by.


Only divide I see, and how I see the entire world.

And in that divide, you take the side of Rich People (Hobby Lobby) over the poor girl working for minimum wage selling folks cheap made Chinese Shit.

I don't give a flying fuck if you are for otherwise sensible reforms, the fact is ON THIS ISSUE, you've taken THEIR side.

 

[JoeB131]

Which is why they will decide against Hobby Lobby.

So, how'd that work our for you, Iosef?

I guess I was expecting too much out of Justice Kennedy.

But not to worry. 5 Old Men just decided that a woman's employer can tell her what to do with her Vagina.

Not quite "Gift From God Rape", but it'll do the trick.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Well I'll be darned. Hobby Lobby won.

Naw, that will come in November and in 2016 when women figure out what you just pulled on them.

You know, you sure think women are stupid, don't you? You and your bullshit "war on women". It's getting old - but I guess when all you have is your Thug-In-Chief, you have to stir the shit pot somewhere else, don't you......

Women are more than capable of taking responsibility for their own damned actions. No one is stopping them. My Damned insurance doesn't cover Viagra - let alone an "abortion in a bottle".


Wake up. Your tactics aren't working any longer. If Hillary (the murderer) Clinton is your best hope - you've already lost.

 

[daveman]

You are either a corporation or you are not

If you want to run your business as a family business, then do so

But if you choose to incorporate to provide your family legal protections from the decisions that you make then you can't claim that the corporation has the ethical and religious values of the family

You can't hide behind a corporation when it hurts you and claim individual rights when it helps you

HL is run by a family unlike most corporations. HL is not doing anything illegal nor underhanded, your implication is absurd.

and they're using their theocratic BS to deny others their rights. and the court allowed it.

disgusting.

You can buy your own abortifacients if you like.

And since there is no right to have them paid for by anyone else, no one's rights are being denied.

 

[daveman]

Which is why they will decide against Hobby Lobby.

So, how'd that work our for you, Iosef?

I guess I was expecting too much out of Justice Kennedy.

But not to worry. 5 Old Men just decided that a woman's employer can tell her what to do with her Vagina.

Not quite "Gift From God Rape", but it'll do the trick.

She can do what she likes with her vagina. Please stop being an emotional retard.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Yanno, Joe, you get mad when a bunch of men in the Supreme Court rule that Hobby Lobby doesn't have to provide for four (yes four) types of birth control, you liberals say that a bunch of men shouldn't be dictating the sexual lives of women. Newsflash, you have a bunch of old male Democrats in Washington right now doing the same thing. Where's the outrage there? "They support women's rights" you say. They might, but still the logic applies. If men on the conservative side aren't allowed to dictate the sexual choices of women, the it should only stand to reason that liberal men shouldn't be allowed to either.

 

[JoeB131]

You know, you sure think women are stupid, don't you? You and your bullshit "war on women". It's getting old - but I guess when all you have is your Thug-In-Chief, you have to stir the shit pot somewhere else, don't you......

Women are more than capable of taking responsibility for their own damned actions. No one is stopping them. My Damned insurance doesn't cover Viagra - let alone an "abortion in a bottle".

Wake up. Your tactics aren't working any longer. If Hillary (the murderer) Clinton is your best hope - you've already lost.

Here's the problem with that. You not being able to get you thing hard for one night isn't going to fuck up your life permanently.

Not being able to avoid pregnancy when you are working a minimum wage job for a bunch of religious assholes.

Yes, women are capable of taking care of their own actions. Which means they are capable of picking the correct form of birth control after consulting with a trained medical specialist.

Not an Employer
Not a Church
Not a Congressman
Not a judge.

I think most women are smart enough to realize what is what.

 

[JoeB131]

Yanno, Joe, you get mad when a bunch of men in the Supreme Court rule that Hobby Lobby doesn't have to provide for four (yes four) types of birth control, you liberals say that a bunch of men shouldn't be dictating the sexual lives of women. Newsflash, you have a bunch of old male Democrats in Washington right now doing the same thing. Where's the outrage there?

Yanno, Tampon, Hobby Lobby isn't a doctor.

I trust women and their doctors to plot out what the best course of treatment is.

Not a bunch of self-righteous assholes who sell crappy craft supplies made by Chinese slave labor.

 

[TemplarKormac]

So, how'd that work our for you, Iosef?

I guess I was expecting too much out of Justice Kennedy.

But not to worry. 5 Old Men just decided that a woman's employer can tell her what to do with her Vagina.

Not quite "Gift From God Rape", but it'll do the trick.

She can do what she likes with her vagina. Please stop being an emotional retard.

Emotion is all he has. Nary a fact or rebuttal to be found.

 

[TemplarKormac]

You know, you sure think women are stupid, don't you? You and your bullshit "war on women". It's getting old - but I guess when all you have is your Thug-In-Chief, you have to stir the shit pot somewhere else, don't you......

Women are more than capable of taking responsibility for their own damned actions. No one is stopping them. My Damned insurance doesn't cover Viagra - let alone an "abortion in a bottle".

Wake up. Your tactics aren't working any longer. If Hillary (the murderer) Clinton is your best hope - you've already lost.

Yes, women are capable of taking care of their own actions.

Then why are they begging for free abortions from the government? Isn't that not asking the government to "take care of their own actions"?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Yanno, Joe, you get mad when a bunch of men in the Supreme Court rule that Hobby Lobby doesn't have to provide for four (yes four) types of birth control, you liberals say that a bunch of men shouldn't be dictating the sexual lives of women. Newsflash, you have a bunch of old male Democrats in Washington right now doing the same thing. Where's the outrage there?

Yanno, Tampon, Hobby Lobby isn't a doctor.

I trust women and their doctors to plot out what the best course of treatment is.

Not a bunch of self-righteous assholes who sell crappy craft supplies made by Chinese slave labor.

And you aren't a Supreme Court justice either.

So, if you think women should be able to "plot out what the best course of treatment is" with their doctors, how come that wasn't the reasoning with the rest of America when Obamacare was passed? A lot of others won't get the choice of a doctor, but you'll be damned if a woman is denied hers.

Do you realize the conundrum here? Obamacare by itself is a denial of choice to women! Yet here you are saying they should get one!

You crack me up Joe, you really do! Come back when you have something other than argumentum ad passiones.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Oops. Looks like all the liberal arguments have been destroyed. Case closed.

 

[JoeB131]

[

And you aren't a Supreme Court justice either.

So, if you think women should be able to "plot out what the best course of treatment is" with their doctors, how come that wasn't the reasoning with the rest of America when Obamacare was passed? A lot of others won't get the choice of a doctor, but you'll be damned if a woman is denied hers.

Do you realize the conundrum here? Obamacare by itself is a denial of choice to women! Yet here you are saying they should get one!

You crack me up Joe, you really do! Come back when you have something other than argumentum ad passiones.

I've still got the same doctors I had before ObamaCare, dude. so do most people.

I know when you sit on Granny's couch not having a useful job, you listen to Hate Radio and they tell you this shit, but the fact is, most people are still going to the same doctors they always have.

 

[JoeB131]

Oops. Looks like all the liberal arguments have been destroyed. Case closed.

You, you can go back to trying to get that high score on Level 43.