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An honest question for you servicemen and veterans

86DuDE

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More and more I've noticed a certain mindframe from you gallant freedumb fighters. I'm talking about citizenship. You see, many of you believe this is Rome, and citizenship must be earned on some battlefield chasing haji around for your American empire or whatever stupid reason. Many of you would also say "service should be mandatory for citizenship". To this I ask WHO the HELL are you to tell any American that? Who the hell are YOU claiming to be an AMERICAN, wearing that flag on your uniform by abandoning core American principles not to mention constitution just because you served? Who is feeding you this delusional propaganda?
 

Article 15

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More and more I've noticed a certain mindframe from you gallant freedumb fighters. I'm talking about citizenship. You see, many of you believe this is Rome, and citizenship must be earned on some battlefield chasing haji around for your American empire or whatever stupid reason. Many of you would also say "service should be mandatory for citizenship". To this I ask WHO the HELL are you to tell any American that? Who the hell are YOU claiming to be an AMERICAN, wearing that flag on your uniform by abandoning core American principles not to mention constitution just because you served? Who is feeding you this delusional propaganda?

Pull up some examples of my fellow vets and service members here at USMB who hold that opinion.
 

RetiredGySgt

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More and more I've noticed a certain mindframe from you gallant freedumb fighters. I'm talking about citizenship. You see, many of you believe this is Rome, and citizenship must be earned on some battlefield chasing haji around for your American empire or whatever stupid reason. Many of you would also say "service should be mandatory for citizenship". To this I ask WHO the HELL are you to tell any American that? Who the hell are YOU claiming to be an AMERICAN, wearing that flag on your uniform by abandoning core American principles not to mention constitution just because you served? Who is feeding you this delusional propaganda?

RETARD ALERT. The Federal Government determines who can be US Citizens if they are not BORN here or of American parents. The Military has nothing what so ever to do with immigration or its enforcement.

Now what you probably have seen is that since our Southern Border is a leaking sieve allowing MILLIONS of illegal aliens free passage into our Country ILLEGALLY, that some of us wish the Federal Government would use National Security issues to use the Military to shut the Border down.

It is a nightmare of BIBLICAL proportions. Terrorists could easily smuggle thousands of men and materials into this Country with out us even knowing it. And the illegal aliens are a massive drain on our States Governments as they suck up Medical dollars and assistance and Law Enforcement dollars. They smuggle drugs and other illegal items into this Country and stay illegally, some KILLING and ROBBING our legal citizens.
 

editec

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More and more I've noticed a certain mindframe from you gallant freedumb fighters. I'm talking about citizenship. You see, many of you believe this is Rome, and citizenship must be earned on some battlefield chasing haji around for your American empire or whatever stupid reason. Many of you would also say "service should be mandatory for citizenship". To this I ask WHO the HELL are you to tell any American that? Who the hell are YOU claiming to be an AMERICAN, wearing that flag on your uniform by abandoning core American principles not to mention constitution just because you served? Who is feeding you this delusional propaganda?

Robert A Heinlein.

Didn't you see STARSHIP TROOPERS?

It was basically his apology for facism.

Bob was not only a sexual pervert who advocated incest, he was a closet fascist.

Yeah, yeah I used to love his books when I was a kid, too.

Hell when I was a kid, I thought Ayn Rand was plenty smart, too.

Then I grew up.
 

strollingbones

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More and more I've noticed a certain mindframe from you gallant freedumb fighters. I'm talking about citizenship. You see, many of you believe this is Rome, and citizenship must be earned on some battlefield chasing haji around for your American empire or whatever stupid reason. Many of you would also say "service should be mandatory for citizenship". To this I ask WHO the HELL are you to tell any American that? Who the hell are YOU claiming to be an AMERICAN, wearing that flag on your uniform by abandoning core American principles not to mention constitution just because you served? Who is feeding you this delusional propaganda?

i am a liberal witch....and i think service should be mandatory.

why shouldnt everyone serve? that does not mean everyone has to do military service but there should be some type of service.

there are pros and cons...israel has this system...2 years service, i do believe and someone will correct me if i am wrong...the cost of training is normally balanced by the cost of not having a huge "standing army" but having well trained citizens who can be called up quickly to defend their country. i see no problems with that type of system.

Why do you have to be so insulting? you could have ask this question and had a decent discussion but you opted to be insulting? you may object to patriotic fever, as i do at times, but does that give you the right to insult the men/women who have served? to paint them all with such a broad brush?

many posters on here are retired military. some did their 20 and got out..some, i am assuming, are medically outed due to injuries. A few are in pain daily from injuries received.

oddly enough i find it amusing that you look to these men to perserve freedoms even off the battlefield....

isnt that something you could do?
 

Gadawg73

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Ask my brother what he thought of the draftees behind him in 1968 while facing NVA regulars in the A Shau valley.
 

strollingbones

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vietnam was different...not everyone served..that was part of the overall problem....


and yet i must work...this work mal is really getting in the way
 

Granny

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More and more I've noticed a certain mindframe from you gallant freedumb fighters. I'm talking about citizenship. You see, many of you believe this is Rome, and citizenship must be earned on some battlefield chasing haji around for your American empire or whatever stupid reason. Many of you would also say "service should be mandatory for citizenship". To this I ask WHO the HELL are you to tell any American that? Who the hell are YOU claiming to be an AMERICAN, wearing that flag on your uniform by abandoning core American principles not to mention constitution just because you served? Who is feeding you this delusional propaganda?

Listen, Dude. My son is one of those freedumb fighters who you so arrogantly spit on. He pisses the living shit out of me when he says, "I'm fighting for their right to speak up and spit on me if that's the thanks they want to give for my effort." I truly believe that when the going gets really tough, those who take such a piss-poor attitude about American soldiers are going to be the ones who scream the loudest for the protection they provide. I've already seen that reaction from a former co-worker - and I wanted to slap the living shit out of her right on the spot. But I didn't.

If you don't want to stand up to serve and defend America, the please get the fruck out and go wherever you think it is that's so much better.

MY SPECIAL THANKS TO ALL OF YOU WHO HAVE SERVED THIS COUNTRY AND PROTECTED HER ALL THESE YEARS ... THOSE WHO STOOD UP AND SAID, "NOT ON MY WATCH." I PARTICULARLY HONOR THOSE WHO GAVE ALL TO KEEP THIS COUNTRY SAFE AND FREE.
 

midcan5

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What exactly is an 'honest question?'

I found 86Dude's post rather amusing as it touches on an issue argued here often. Roles and responsibilities of government and its citizens. There is this wonderfully naive assumption among many of today's youth that society is some fixed permanent thing that just works because that is as far as they can see. When my generation grew up, no one I knew ever expressed this ignorance even though we knew Vietnam was waiting most of us. Maybe it was our class, but I doubt it. Today libertarian and freedom thumping conservatives on the right, act as if all we have to do is say "freedom" and all is better. Self centered entitlement is an odd phenomenon. Add to that an almost complete lack of civic duty, zero historical education, and a 'I got mine fluck you attitude,' and you surely wonder, whither America.


'It's a Free Country'

"A commonly heard mantra is, "Read your Constitution - it's a free country, you know!" Well, read your Constitution - it never says it is a free country. The implication of the aphorism is that in the United States, you can do whatever you want to do, and the Constitution is there to ensure that. It is certainly true that the Constitution protects many civil rights. The 1st Amendment ensures freedom of religious choice and freedom of speech, but those things are not without limit. You cannot create a religion that allows you to kill someone without civil punishment; you cannot use libelous or slanderous words without recourse. There are other things that restrict freedom - from the ability to suspend habeas corpus to the issuance of patents. Certainly the United States is a very free country, but it is not totally free - which is actually a good thing, unless you actually like anarchy. It is interesting to note that in his confirmation hearings in 2005, John Roberts said several times, "It's a free country." It will be interesting to see how this enters into his judicial philosophy on the Court." Thanks to John Powers and Brad Cottel for the idea.

Things That Are Not In the U.S. Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

PS I feel military duty should be required and if you are a pacifist some other sort of duty such as street cleaning or forest restoration. The youth love it when I say that.

I think we know the answer to the bold text, free for corporations. ;)
 

PatekPhilippe

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More and more I've noticed a certain mindframe from you gallant freedumb fighters. I'm talking about citizenship. You see, many of you believe this is Rome, and citizenship must be earned on some battlefield chasing haji around for your American empire or whatever stupid reason. Many of you would also say "service should be mandatory for citizenship". To this I ask WHO the HELL are you to tell any American that? Who the hell are YOU claiming to be an AMERICAN, wearing that flag on your uniform by abandoning core American principles not to mention constitution just because you served? Who is feeding you this delusional propaganda?

You're entitled to your fucked up opinion no matter how far out in left field it is. Please don't denegrate my service, the service of millions before me and the deaths of untold numbers of American soldiers in defense of their country with your pussy ass, hippie bullshit rant against the military. Without them your dumb ass would be having afternoon tea, out in the fields picking cotton, speaking German or have squinty eyes and buck teeth...so my suggestion to you 86DUD is to shut your pie hole and be thankful there are Americans willing to volunteer to protect your right to make a complete ass out of yourself in front of millions.
 

SFC Ollie

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More and more I've noticed a certain mindframe from you gallant freedumb fighters. I'm talking about citizenship. You see, many of you believe this is Rome, and citizenship must be earned on some battlefield chasing haji around for your American empire or whatever stupid reason. Many of you would also say "service should be mandatory for citizenship". To this I ask WHO the HELL are you to tell any American that? Who the hell are YOU claiming to be an AMERICAN, wearing that flag on your uniform by abandoning core American principles not to mention constitution just because you served? Who is feeding you this delusional propaganda?

I think you are a loon.



I was going to say more but that pretty much sums it up.
 
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86DuDE

86DuDE

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More and more I've noticed a certain mindframe from you gallant freedumb fighters. I'm talking about citizenship. You see, many of you believe this is Rome, and citizenship must be earned on some battlefield chasing haji around for your American empire or whatever stupid reason. Many of you would also say "service should be mandatory for citizenship". To this I ask WHO the HELL are you to tell any American that? Who the hell are YOU claiming to be an AMERICAN, wearing that flag on your uniform by abandoning core American principles not to mention constitution just because you served? Who is feeding you this delusional propaganda?

Pull up some examples of my fellow vets and service members here at USMB who hold that opinion.

I don't know anyone on this board, but I hear it A LOT from guys I know that have served or are serving. It warms my heart to know that this blatant unamericanism doesn't exist on this board.
 

uscitizen

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More and more I've noticed a certain mindframe from you gallant freedumb fighters. I'm talking about citizenship. You see, many of you believe this is Rome, and citizenship must be earned on some battlefield chasing haji around for your American empire or whatever stupid reason. Many of you would also say "service should be mandatory for citizenship". To this I ask WHO the HELL are you to tell any American that? Who the hell are YOU claiming to be an AMERICAN, wearing that flag on your uniform by abandoning core American principles not to mention constitution just because you served? Who is feeding you this delusional propaganda?

Robert A Heinlein.

Didn't you see STARSHIP TROOPERS?

It was basically his apology for facism.

Bob was not only a sexual pervert who advocated incest, he was a closet fascist.

Yeah, yeah I used to love his books when I was a kid, too.

Hell when I was a kid, I thought Ayn Rand was plenty smart, too.

Then I grew up.

the movie was entertaining. good looking chicks too.
However it was virtually nothing like the book.
 
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86DuDE

86DuDE

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More and more I've noticed a certain mindframe from you gallant freedumb fighters. I'm talking about citizenship. You see, many of you believe this is Rome, and citizenship must be earned on some battlefield chasing haji around for your American empire or whatever stupid reason. Many of you would also say "service should be mandatory for citizenship". To this I ask WHO the HELL are you to tell any American that? Who the hell are YOU claiming to be an AMERICAN, wearing that flag on your uniform by abandoning core American principles not to mention constitution just because you served? Who is feeding you this delusional propaganda?

You're entitled to your fucked up opinion no matter how far out in left field it is. Please don't denegrate my service, the service of millions before me and the deaths of untold numbers of American soldiers in defense of their country with your pussy ass, hippie bullshit rant against the military. Without them your dumb ass would be having afternoon tea, out in the fields picking cotton, speaking German or have squinty eyes and buck teeth...so my suggestion to you 86DUD is to shut your pie hole and be thankful there are Americans willing to volunteer to protect your right to make a complete ass out of yourself in front of millions.

I'll degenerate your mislead service to the U.S. empire any time I please and you won't do anything about it.

I'll shut up when you tell me EXACTLY how you are protecting my so called "rights" right now. Otherwise go back to your depleted urnanim thread and revel in the death of children.
 

Zona

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More and more I've noticed a certain mindframe from you gallant freedumb fighters. I'm talking about citizenship. You see, many of you believe this is Rome, and citizenship must be earned on some battlefield chasing haji around for your American empire or whatever stupid reason. Many of you would also say "service should be mandatory for citizenship". To this I ask WHO the HELL are you to tell any American that? Who the hell are YOU claiming to be an AMERICAN, wearing that flag on your uniform by abandoning core American principles not to mention constitution just because you served? Who is feeding you this delusional propaganda?

I think you are a loon.



I was going to say more but that pretty much sums it up.

Ditto, or this guy is just doing a shock thing.
 
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86DuDE

86DuDE

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More and more I've noticed a certain mindframe from you gallant freedumb fighters. I'm talking about citizenship. You see, many of you believe this is Rome, and citizenship must be earned on some battlefield chasing haji around for your American empire or whatever stupid reason. Many of you would also say "service should be mandatory for citizenship". To this I ask WHO the HELL are you to tell any American that? Who the hell are YOU claiming to be an AMERICAN, wearing that flag on your uniform by abandoning core American principles not to mention constitution just because you served? Who is feeding you this delusional propaganda?

RETARD ALERT. The Federal Government determines who can be US Citizens if they are not BORN here or of American parents. The Military has nothing what so ever to do with immigration or its enforcement.

Now what you probably have seen is that since our Southern Border is a leaking sieve allowing MILLIONS of illegal aliens free passage into our Country ILLEGALLY, that some of us wish the Federal Government would use National Security issues to use the Military to shut the Border down.

It is a nightmare of BIBLICAL proportions. Terrorists could easily smuggle thousands of men and materials into this Country with out us even knowing it. And the illegal aliens are a massive drain on our States Governments as they suck up Medical dollars and assistance and Law Enforcement dollars. They smuggle drugs and other illegal items into this Country and stay illegally, some KILLING and ROBBING our legal citizens.

I see you've totally missed my point eventhough your point is totally valid.
 
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86DuDE

86DuDE

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More and more I've noticed a certain mindframe from you gallant freedumb fighters. I'm talking about citizenship. You see, many of you believe this is Rome, and citizenship must be earned on some battlefield chasing haji around for your American empire or whatever stupid reason. Many of you would also say "service should be mandatory for citizenship". To this I ask WHO the HELL are you to tell any American that? Who the hell are YOU claiming to be an AMERICAN, wearing that flag on your uniform by abandoning core American principles not to mention constitution just because you served? Who is feeding you this delusional propaganda?

Listen, Dude. My son is one of those freedumb fighters who you so arrogantly spit on. He pisses the living shit out of me when he says, "I'm fighting for their right to speak up and spit on me if that's the thanks they want to give for my effort." I truly believe that when the going gets really tough, those who take such a piss-poor attitude about American soldiers are going to be the ones who scream the loudest for the protection they provide. I've already seen that reaction from a former co-worker - and I wanted to slap the living shit out of her right on the spot. But I didn't.

If you don't want to stand up to serve and defend America, the please get the fruck out and go wherever you think it is that's so much better.

MY SPECIAL THANKS TO ALL OF YOU WHO HAVE SERVED THIS COUNTRY AND PROTECTED HER ALL THESE YEARS ... THOSE WHO STOOD UP AND SAID, "NOT ON MY WATCH." I PARTICULARLY HONOR THOSE WHO GAVE ALL TO KEEP THIS COUNTRY SAFE AND FREE.


You see, people like you, the uneducated masses are the problem in this country. The fact that you'd allow your child to fight and kill if necessary people that never did you any harm for EMPIRE and OIL, wrap yourself in a flag that symbols OPPRESSION to most of the EDUCATED world is a testament to the mass stupidity that exists in this nation. The fact is I don't wish your son harm nor do I want to spit on him. Furthermore, I understand full well that politics have no place on the battlefield, however, that doesn't make my statement that NOBODY with any education or historical memory , could, with a straight face tell me that they or anyone else for that matter is fighting for my freedom. That is a flat out, bold face lie, and you know it. So be honest with me, because I'm going to be BRUTALLY honest with you. Will a folded American flag made in China and a pre-recorded version of taps be concillation enough if your son returns to you as a corpse having died for nothing more than empire and oil contracts?
 
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86DuDE

86DuDE

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I see you've totally missed my point eventhough your point is totally valid.
You didn't have a point. You presented a false argument.

This thread is a good Lame Zone candidate IMO.

So you've NEVER heard anyone former military ask that question? Well good for you. I hear it all the time.
 

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