An Ancient Palestinian Civilization? Where?

[JStone]

The so-called Palestinians claim to have an ancient civilization in historic Israel even preceding the Jews who have inhabited and ruled in Israel dating back 3000 years, however, such a Palestinian past is difficult to actually verify. In fact, it's impossible to do so based on a complete absence of an archaeological record of any Palestinian civilization.

Pulitzer Prize-Winning writer Charles Krauthammer...

Israel is the very embodiment of Jewish continuity: It is the only nation on earth that inhabits the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God that it did 3,000 years ago. You dig the soil and you find pottery from Davidic times, coins from Bar Kokhba, and 2,000-year-old scrolls written in a script remarkably like the one that today advertises ice cream at the corner candy store.

Arab historians concede the point that Palestinians are a modern construct and say attempts to create a link to the past are ahistorical...

Rashid Khalidi, Professor of Middle East history, Columbia University, professor of Middle East history and director of the Center for International Studies at the University of Chicago, Advisor to Arab groups...

There is a relatively recent tradition which argues that Palestinian nationalism has deep historical roots. As with other national movements, extreme advocates of this view anachronistically read back into the history of Palestine over the past few centuries a nationalist consciousness and identity that are in fact relatively modern. Among the manifestations of this outlook are a predilection for seeing in peoples such as the Canaanites, Jebusites and Philistines the lineal ancestors of the modern Palestinians.

So, too, does eminent Middle East historian and scholar Bernard Lewis say so-called Palestine and so-called Palestinians are a modern invention...

Bernard Lewis...

The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new. This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites. But, Palestine was not one of them. People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality. But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying province of Syria

The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1948]

While there is zero archaeological evidence of a Palestinian civilization, has anyone conducted any excavations and discovered an alleged Palestinian civilization in Israel?

 

[AmericanFirst]

The palestinians wouldn't be lying would they? Say it is not so.

 

[irosie91]

there were ancient civilizations all over the middle east-----the overwhelming majority are no longer extant The middle east has nice weather----once the primates stopped swinging from the trees---and walking upright-----the LIVING WAS EASY amongst the date palms and fig trees There was---LONG LONG LONG ago even a civilized people living in what is now saudi arabia -----civilization in saudi arabia came to an end 1400 years ago-----WITH THE EXCEPTION of a whole bunch of hindus who live there now------unfortunately with no power to INFLICT civilization on the presently BRUTALIZED population

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

I studied about Palestine, in one of the first books I encountered in my life, the Christian Bible.

I do believe in that Bible, and I do not beleieve the Palestine of Jesus was a lie!

Books about the Bible, you find pages and pages of maps of Palestine when Jesus lived there, there is no Israel, though!

I say what is good enough for Jesus, a land called Palestine, well, that is certainly good enough for me!

Of course, Palestine was spoken of long before that, by the first Historian, Herodotus, he did not mention an Israel either!

Sherri

 

[irosie91]

The so-called Palestinians claim to have an ancient civilization in historic Israel even preceding the Jews who have inhabited and ruled in Israel dating back 3000 years, however, such a Palestinian past is difficult to actually verify. In fact, it's impossible to do so based on a complete absence of an archaeological record of any Palestinian civilization.

Pulitzer Prize-Winning writer Charles Krauthammer...

Israel is the very embodiment of Jewish continuity: It is the only nation on earth that inhabits the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God that it did 3,000 years ago. You dig the soil and you find pottery from Davidic times, coins from Bar Kokhba, and 2,000-year-old scrolls written in a script remarkably like the one that today advertises ice cream at the corner candy store.

Arab historians concede the point that Palestinians are a modern construct and sayattempts to create a link to the past are ahistorical...

Rashid Khalidi, Professor of Middle East history, Columbia University, professor of Middle East history and director of the Center for International Studies at the University of Chicago, Advisor to Arab groups...


So, too, does eminent Middle East historian and scholar Bernard Lewis say so-called Palestine and so-called Palestinians are a modern invention...


Bernard Lewis...

The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new. This, I need hardly remind you, is
a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites. But, Palestine was not one of them. People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality. But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying province of Syria

The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1948]

While there is zero archaeological evidence of a Palestinian civilization, has anyone conducted any excavations and discovered an alleged Palestinian civilization in Israel?

LMFAO!!!!!!!! indeed what Israel discussion forum would be complete without this staple of crude Zionist misinformation---the standard "Palestine never existed" pearl....aside from the obvious ignorance and requisite stupidity---the poster who elects this path could probably get a real eye-opener by simply leafing through a standard world history volume, or taking an elective course in Middle Eastern history at a local university....this is the kind
of cringeworthy, vulgar stupidity that defines Zionism in the minds of so many critics...it speaks for itself

try again codger----- the only crude and vulgar piece of stinking crap on this thread is
you go right ahead and promulgate your silly lies ----for the benefit of what
ever filth is your creed or your background or your interests

whatever you are ----you demonstrate daily ----that it stinks

THE ONLY PALESTINIANS THAT EXISTED UNTIL THE
1960s WERE JEWS LIVING IN PALESTINE---PALESTINE
IS THE NAME USED BY ROMAN INVADERS INTO JEWISH
JUDEA/ISRAEL FOR JUDEA/ISRAEL---STARTING A BIT
MORE THAN 2000 YEARS AGO 65 YEARS AGO LOTS
OF PEOPLE CALLED ISRAELIS ----WERE CALLED
PALESTINIANS 65 YEARS AGO NONE OF THE
PEOPLE CALLED PALESTINIANS TODAY----WERE
CALLED PALESTINIANS BACK THEN

 

[toastman]

I studied about Palestine, in one of the first books I encountered in my life, the Christian Bible.

I do believe in that Bible, and I do not beleieve the Palestine of Jesus was a lie!

Books about the Bible, you find pages and pages of maps of Palestine when Jesus lived there, there is no Israel, though!

I say what is good enough for Jesus, a land called Palestine, well, that is certainly good enough for me!

Of course, Palestine was spoken of long before that, by the first Historian, Herodotus, he did not mention an Israel either!

Sherri

Who was the first king of 'Palestine'

What were 'Palestines' borders?

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

The so-called Palestinians claim to have an ancient civilization in historic Israel even preceding the Jews who have inhabited and ruled in Israel dating back 3000 years, however, such a Palestinian past is difficult to actually verify. In fact, it's impossible to do so based on a complete absence of an archaeological record of any Palestinian civilization.

Pulitzer Prize-Winning writer Charles Krauthammer...

Israel is the very embodiment of Jewish continuity: It is the only nation on earth that inhabits the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God that it did 3,000 years ago. You dig the soil and you find pottery from Davidic times, coins from Bar Kokhba, and 2,000-year-old scrolls written in a script remarkably like the one that today advertises ice cream at the corner candy store.

Arab historians concede the point that Palestinians are a modern construct and say attempts to create a link to the past are ahistorical...

Rashid Khalidi, Professor of Middle East history, Columbia University, professor of Middle East history and director of the Center for International Studies at the University of Chicago, Advisor to Arab groups...

There is a relatively recent tradition which argues that Palestinian nationalism has deep historical roots. As with other national movements, extreme advocates of this view anachronistically read back into the history of Palestine over the past few centuries a nationalist consciousness and identity that are in fact relatively modern. Among the manifestations of this outlook are a predilection for seeing in peoples such as the Canaanites, Jebusites and Philistines the lineal ancestors of the modern Palestinians.

So, too, does eminent Middle East historian and scholar Bernard Lewis say so-called Palestine and so-called Palestinians are a modern invention...

Bernard Lewis...

The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new. This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites. But, Palestine was not one of them. People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality. But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying province of Syria

The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1948]

While there is zero archaeological evidence of a Palestinian civilization, has anyone conducted any excavations and discovered an alleged Palestinian civilization in Israel?

JStone,

I must disagree with your Torah of Jewish Nationalism version of History.

Shlomo Sands (who has become referred to as the man that Zionists love to hate), wrote a book about how the Jewish people and the alleged ties to the land of Palestine are an invention, it is called The Invention of the Jewish People, and he is an Israeli Jewish Professor and Historian(one can even purchase a Kindle Edition of this book on Amazon, as I have).

He discusses the claimed Exodus, in the 13th Century BC and how archaelogical evidence has uncovered no evidence it happened, ie no evidence of a people roaming the desert for 40 years.. A further problem, archaelogical discoveries have established Moses could not have led the Hebrews out of Egypt into the Promised Land then, for the good reason that the latter was Egyptian territory at the time.

He discusses there is no archaelogical evidence of the magnificent kingdoms of David and Solomon. Recent discoveries show two small kingdoms, Israel and Judah. The general population of Judah did not go into 6th century BC exile, only the political and intellectual elite were forced to settle into Babylon. The encounter with Persian religion gave birth to Jewish monotheism. The exile of 70 AD, the so called cause of the diaspora, there is no evidence it happened. The Romans never exiled any nation from anywhere on the eastern seaboard of the Mediterranean. The population of Judea continued to live on their land, with the exception of those prisoners Romans enslaved, even after the destruction of the Second Temple. Some converted to Christianity, the majority embraced Islam in the 7th Century.

You see where this is going, the Palestinian people, many of them are even descendants of Jews who lived in the land centuries before and converted to other religions, and they are descendants of many different peoples who had lived in the land for the past thousands of years, as well, Caaananites, Samaritans, etc.

The diaspora was not the consequence of expulsion of Jews from Palestine, it was the consequence of proselytizing across north Africa, southern Europe, and the Middle East. Judaism was spread by missionaries through the Hellenistic world. What is Judaism today first emerged out of the universalist and monotheist ferment of Persia and was opposed to the exclusionist sect founded by Ezra and Nehemiah, with books like Isaiah and Ruth originally written as polemics against this sect. The height of Jeewish expansion was in the third century, long after the alleged exile and at the time of the completion of the Mishnah. Judaism remained an active proselytizing religion well after Christianity's rise, focusing itself on the periphery of the Christian world.

Three separate Jewish kingdoms took hold, born of proselytizing, the Himyar of Yemen, the Kahina of Berber North Africa, and and the Khazaria, that extended at its height across the Russian steppe from Crimea to the Aral Sea. The rulers of the Khazar Empire converted to Judaism in 740 AD, and the fall of this kingdom did not occur until the internal sacking in the 10th Century and its last remnants were swept away by the Golden Horde.

The Khazarian Jews were the ancestors of East European Jews, German Jewry largely descended from the the westward migration of Khazars into central Europe in the 10th and 11th centuries. (That presumably includes my own German ancestors, through my mother's father's side of the family, surname Schafer, who at some point converted to Catholicism and moved to the US in the early 1800s.)

Look what the Torah of Jewish Nationalism is ignoring, a great pluralistic empire the size of India or Brazil that lasted four times longer than the Hasmonean Kingdom of less than a century (interesting, that Hasmonean Kingdom lasted about the same length of time the modern nation of Israel has been in existence). And it is this Khazarian Kingdom from which Ashkenazi Jews were descended.There is no genetic links to the people of Palestine, the Khazeria Kingdom became Jewish through conversion.

Conclusion: The Palestinians, who have been ethnically clensed from Palestine since 1947 are the true indigenous peoples of Palestine.

I am not making these comments to suggest Jews should be all kicked out of Palestine, but to respond to your meritless claims there are no Palestinians. The Palestinians are the people with the real and true ties to the land of Palestine, they were living in the land at the time the British Mandate was set up, and the modern day state of Israel has spent the last 70 years trying to ethnically cleanse the true indigenous peoples of the land of Palestine, from their homes and lands.

You, a Zionist, your allegations that the indigenous Palestinain peoples have no claim to the land of Palestine, after Zionists have engaged in almost 70 years of ethnic cleansing in the land , do not ring true to me. And I reject them.




Sherri

 

[Roudy]

I studied about Palestine, in one of the first books I encountered in my life, the Christian Bible.

I do believe in that Bible, and I do not beleieve the Palestine of Jesus was a lie!

Books about the Bible, you find pages and pages of maps of Palestine when Jesus lived there, there is no Israel, though!

I say what is good enough for Jesus, a land called Palestine, well, that is certainly good enough for me!

Of course, Palestine was spoken of long before that, by the first Historian, Herodotus, he did not mention an Israel either!

Sherri

It wasn't called "Palestine" in Jesus' time, you fucking idiot.

 

[Roudy]

Eh? Over half the Jews in Israel are Jews who are either from the Middle east, or descendants of, DNA test have shown that Jews, whether European or Middle Eastern have a common gene going back thousands of years, that no Muslim or Arab has. The Palestinians who started calling themseves Palestinians as of 1967 are recent Arab invaders from neighboring Arab lands. Their language, culture and DNA are identical to other Arabs from Jordan, Syria, or Egypt.

In other words you can take your stupid ass Khazar theory from a Nazi website and SHOVE IT. Pig.

 

[eots]

Eh? Over half the Jews in Israel are Jews who are either from the Middle east, or descendants of, DNA test have shown that Jews only whether European or Middle Eastern have a common gene that no Muslim or Arab has. The Palestinians who started calling themseves Palestinians as of 1967 are recent Arab invaders from neighboring Arab lands. Their language, culture and DNA are identical to other Arabs from Jordan, Syria, or Egypt.

In other words you can take if stupid ass Khazar theory from a Nazi website and SHOVE IT. Pig.

link

 

[eots]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb925F87rf0]The Power of Now - Rumi - YouTube[/ame]

 

[rosends]

Eh? Over half the Jews in Israel are Jews who are either from the Middle east, or descendants of, DNA test have shown that Jews only whether European or Middle Eastern have a common gene that no Muslim or Arab has. The Palestinians who started calling themseves Palestinians as of 1967 are recent Arab invaders from neighboring Arab lands. Their language, culture and DNA are identical to other Arabs from Jordan, Syria, or Egypt.

In other words you can take if stupid ass Khazar theory from a Nazi website and SHOVE IT. Pig.

link

some would be from here, Are Russian Jews Descended from the Khazars? Analyzing the Khazar Theory , under part 5, conclusion.

 

[rosends]

I studied about Palestine, in one of the first books I encountered in my life, the Christian Bible.

I do believe in that Bible, and I do not beleieve the Palestine of Jesus was a lie!

Books about the Bible, you find pages and pages of maps of Palestine when Jesus lived there, there is no Israel, though!

I say what is good enough for Jesus, a land called Palestine, well, that is certainly good enough for me!

Of course, Palestine was spoken of long before that, by the first Historian, Herodotus, he did not mention an Israel either!

Sherri

could you please show me, from your Christian Bible, a reference to Jesus' "Palestine"? I looked through a few and they only use the word "Palestine" in reference to a section in Genesis which translates the Hebrew "Plishti" or "Plishtim", or "Philistine(s)". I can't see any place which calls the area "Palestine."

 

[Roudy]

Eh? Over half the Jews in Israel are Jews who are either from the Middle east, or descendants of, DNA test have shown that Jews only whether European or Middle Eastern have a common gene that no Muslim or Arab has. The Palestinians who started calling themseves Palestinians as of 1967 are recent Arab invaders from neighboring Arab lands. Their language, culture and DNA are identical to other Arabs from Jordan, Syria, or Egypt.

In other words you can take if stupid ass Khazar theory from a Nazi website and SHOVE IT. Pig.

link

http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48936742.html?tab=y
The fascinating story of how DNA studies confirm an ancient biblical tradition.

The results of the analysis of the Y chromosome markers of the Cohanim and non-Cohanim were indeed significant. A particular marker, (YAP-) was detected in 98.5 percent of the Cohanim, and in a significantly lower percentage of non-Cohanim.
FURTHER CONFIRMATION
In a second study, Dr. Skorecki and associates gathered more DNA samples and expanded their selection of Y chromosome markers. Solidifying their hypothesis of the Cohens' common ancestor, they found that a particular array of six chromosomal markers was found in 97 of the 106 Cohens tested. This collection of markers has come to be known as the Cohen Modal Hapoltype (CMH) -- the standard genetic signature of the Jewish priestly family. The chances of these findings happening at random is greater than one in 10,000.
The finding of a common set of genetic markers in both Ashkenazi and Sephardi Cohanim worldwide clearly indicates an origin pre-dating the separate development of the two communities around 1000 CE. Date calculation based on the variation of the mutations among Cohanim today yields a time frame of 106 generations from the ancestral founder of the line, some 3,300 years -- the approximate time of the Exodus from Egypt, the lifetime of Aaron HaCohen.

The research has shown a clear genetic relationship amongst Cohanim and their direct lineage from a common ancestor. The research findings support the Torah statements that the line of Aaron will last throughout history:

"... and they shall have the Priesthood as a statute forever, and you shall consecrate Aaron and his sons." [Exodus 29:9]

"... it shall be for them an appointment to an everlasting Priesthood throughout their generations." [Exodus 40:15]

"And it shall be to him and to his descendants after him a covenant of everlastingPriesthood." [Numbers 25:13]
That our Torah tradition is supported by these findings is an inspiration for many that God surely keeps His promises. May we soon see the Cohanim restored to their service, Levites on their Temple platform and Israelites at their places.
If you are a Cohen or Levi interested in participating in the DNA research and/or receiving further information please contact:

 

[Roudy]

Eh? Over half the Jews in Israel are Jews who are either from the Middle east, or descendants of, DNA test have shown that Jews only whether European or Middle Eastern have a common gene that no Muslim or Arab has. The Palestinians who started calling themseves Palestinians as of 1967 are recent Arab invaders from neighboring Arab lands. Their language, culture and DNA are identical to other Arabs from Jordan, Syria, or Egypt.

In other words you can take if stupid ass Khazar theory from a Nazi website and SHOVE IT. Pig.

link

Y-chromosomal Aaron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Y-chromosomal Aaron is the name given to the hypothesised most recent common ancestor of many of the patrilineal Jewish priestly caste known as Kohanim (singular "Kohen", "Cohen", or Kohane). In the Torah, this ancestor is identified as Aaron, the brother of Moses. The hypothetical most recent common ancestor was therefore jocularly dubbed "Y-chromosomal Aaron", in analogy to Y-chromosomal Adam.
The original scientific research was based on the discovery that a majority of present-day Jewish Kohanim either share, or are only one step removed from, a pattern of values for 6 Y-STR markers, which researchers named the Cohen Modal Haplotype (CMH). However it subsequently became clear that this six marker pattern was widespread in many communities where men had Y chromosomes which fell into Haplogroup J; the six-marker CMH was not specific just to Cohens, nor even just to Jews, but was a survival from the origins of Haplogroup J, about 30,000 years ago.[citation needed]
More recent research, using a larger number of Y-STR markers to gain higher resolution more specific genetic signatures, has indicated that about half of contemporary Jewish Kohanim, who share Y-chromosomal haplogroup J1c3 (also called J-P58), do indeed appear to be very closely related. A further approximately 15% of Kohanim fall into a second distinct group, sharing a different but similarly tightly related ancestry. This second group fall under haplogroup J2a (J-M410). A number of other smaller lineage groups are also observed. Only one of these haplogroups could indicate ancestry from Y-chromosomal Aaron.

Further study published in 2009 found new markers and better defined variant J1e* (now J1c3, also called J-P58*). This research demonstrates that 46.1% of Kohanim carry Y chromosomes belonging to a single paternal lineage (J-P58*) that likely originated in the Near East well before the dispersal of Jewish groups in the Diaspora. Support for a Near Eastern origin of this lineage comes from its high frequency in our sample of Bedouins, Yemenis (67%), and Jordanians (55%) and its precipitous drop in frequency as one moves away from Saudi Arabia and the Near East (Fig. 4). Moreover, there is a striking contrast between the relatively high frequency of J-58* in Jewish populations (»20%) and Kohanim (»46%) and its vanishingly low frequency in our sample of non- Jewish populations that hosted Jewish diaspora communities outside of the Near East.[6]
Thomas, et al. dated the origin of the shared DNA to approximately 3,000 years ago (with variance arising from different generation lengths). The techniques used to find Y-chromosomal Aaron were first popularized in relation to the search for the patrilineal ancestor of all contemporary living humans, Y-chromosomal Adam.

Responses
The finding led to excitement in religious circles, with some seeing it as providing some "proof" of the historical veracity of part of the Bible[7] or other religious convictions.[8] There was also criticism that the paper's evidence was being overstated.[9]
[edit]

 

[eots]

Eh? Over half the Jews in Israel are Jews who are either from the Middle east, or descendants of, DNA test have shown that Jews only whether European or Middle Eastern have a common gene that no Muslim or Arab has. The Palestinians who started calling themseves Palestinians as of 1967 are recent Arab invaders from neighboring Arab lands. Their language, culture and DNA are identical to other Arabs from Jordan, Syria, or Egypt.

In other words you can take if stupid ass Khazar theory from a Nazi website and SHOVE IT. Pig.

link

Y-chromosomal Aaron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Y-chromosomal Aaron is the name given to the hypothesised most recent common ancestor of many of the patrilineal Jewish priestly caste known as Kohanim (singular "Kohen", "Cohen", or Kohane). In the Torah, this ancestor is identified as Aaron, the brother of Moses. The hypothetical most recent common ancestor was therefore jocularly dubbed "Y-chromosomal Aaron", in analogy to Y-chromosomal Adam.
The original scientific research was based on the discovery that a majority of present-day Jewish Kohanim either share, or are only one step removed from, a pattern of values for 6 Y-STR markers, which researchers named the Cohen Modal Haplotype (CMH). However it subsequently became clear that this six marker pattern was widespread in many communities where men had Y chromosomes which fell into Haplogroup J; the six-marker CMH was not specific just to Cohens, nor even just to Jews, but was a survival from the origins of Haplogroup J, about 30,000 years ago.[citation needed]
More recent research, using a larger number of Y-STR markers to gain higher resolution more specific genetic signatures, has indicated that about half of contemporary Jewish Kohanim, who share Y-chromosomal haplogroup J1c3 (also called J-P58), do indeed appear to be very closely related. A further approximately 15% of Kohanim fall into a second distinct group, sharing a different but similarly tightly related ancestry. This second group fall under haplogroup J2a (J-M410). A number of other smaller lineage groups are also observed. Only one of these haplogroups could indicate ancestry from Y-chromosomal Aaron.

Further study published in 2009 found new markers and better defined variant J1e* (now J1c3, also called J-P58*). This research demonstrates that 46.1% of Kohanim carry Y chromosomes belonging to a single paternal lineage (J-P58*) that likely originated in the Near East well before the dispersal of Jewish groups in the Diaspora. Support for a Near Eastern origin of this lineage comes from its high frequency in our sample of Bedouins, Yemenis (67%), and Jordanians (55%) and its precipitous drop in frequency as one moves away from Saudi Arabia and the Near East (Fig. 4). Moreover, there is a striking contrast between the relatively high frequency of J-58* in Jewish populations (»20%) and Kohanim (»46%) and its vanishingly low frequency in our sample of non- Jewish populations that hosted Jewish diaspora communities outside of the Near East.[6]
Thomas, et al. dated the origin of the shared DNA to approximately 3,000 years ago (with variance arising from different generation lengths). The techniques used to find Y-chromosomal Aaron were first popularized in relation to the search for the patrilineal ancestor of all contemporary living humans, Y-chromosomal Adam.

Responses
The finding led to excitement in religious circles, with some seeing it as providing some "proof" of the historical veracity of part of the Bible[7] or other religious convictions.[8] There was also criticism that the paper's evidence was being overstated.[9]
[edit]

Weak...

 

[kvetch]

here is the ancient pal civilisation

they had a goddess then

eots will like this

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkWFtG5nFyI]Jis Desh Mein Ganga Behti Hai - O Basanti Pawan Paagal Na - Lata Mangeshkar - YouTube[/ame]

 

[eots]

here is the ancient pal civilisation

they had a goddess then

eots will like this

Jis Desh Mein Ganga Behti Hai - O Basanti Pawan Paagal Na - Lata Mangeshkar - YouTube

That was awesome...looked like it was filmed on Mars

 

[kvetch]

its the best indian dancer /actress of all and the greatest actor, too

Padmini and Raj Kapoor

plenty of both on you tube if you wanna explore the genre!!

classic golden bollywood at its very very best!

i'll post faves when i feel like it just to annoy the finatix!!

all down to you, sir

i'd never have thunk of it without your good example!!

 

[kvetch]

here is a great one, eots and anyone who loves women dancing

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTyTiGAORm4&feature=related]Aaja To Aaja (Padmini vs. Vyjayanthimala) - YouTube[/ame]

fuck war...dance your way to the goddess!