Amnesty...? Not so much...

[Dirt McGirt]

Guess who was watching Bill O'Reilly? And you swallowed his bullshit hook-line-and-sinker.

I was listening to O'Reilly on the radio the other day and he actually said he thought the bill was a good idea, that it was a good start to fixing the problem. Did he say differently on his TV show?

 

[Bern80]

Come on lets talk the numbers

Let's just talk whatever the hell your point is.

I'm pretty sure I know how this goes. We do the math, it's some astromical number, so we're just suppossed forget about it right?

How about we do the math on what it will cost to support millions of non-taxpayers instead.

What exactley should we do about oh righteous one?


P.S. i see we still haven't learned how to use the quote function

 

[hjmick]

I was listening to O'Reilly on the radio the other day and he actually said he thought the bill was a good idea, that it was a good start to fixing the problem. Did he say differently on his TV show?

Nope. He said on his television show that he favored the bill.

 

[Truthmatters]

see what I mean?

You are stuck in this one single mind set which will not allow you to even examine the whole issue.

Illegals are illegals partly because thier is no legal way they can get here.

Do you realise the waiting list is like 18 years long?

When you are starving and your mom is breaking her back to feed your Grandma and you little bros and sisters and their is NO work for you and you hear if you go to this town you will get enough money from digging ditches to send to them so they can all eat what would you do?

By not recogizing that they are in some very extreme conditions and doing this is an avenue like no other they have, you are refusing to examine all the facts like a rational being.

This is the same mindset that gives us "oh we cant examine why they hate us ,that is treason".

 

[Bern80]

see what I mean?

You are stuck in this one single mind set which will not allow you to even examine the whole issue.

Illegals are illegals partly because thier is no legal way they can get here.

Do you realise the waiting list is like 18 years long?

When you are starving and your mom is breaking her back to feed your Grandma and you little bros and sisters and their is NO work for you and you hear if you go to this town you will get enough money from digging ditches to send to them so they can all eat what would you do?

By not recogizing that they are in some very extreme conditions and doing this is an avenue like no other they have, you are refusing to examine all the facts like a rational being.

This is the same mindset that gives us "oh we cant examine why they hate us ,that is treason".

Are you under the impression that somehow the country can actually afford to take in every single person that wants to come? Of course we can't, hence a waiting period.

 

[Truthmatters]

Let's just talk whatever the hell your point is.

I'm pretty sure I know how this goes. We do the math, it's some astromical number, so we're just suppossed forget about it right?

How about we do the math on what it will cost to support millions of non-taxpayers instead.

What exactley should we do about oh righteous one?


P.S. i see we still haven't learned how to use the quote function

Look If you make them citizens they then pay full taxes.

BTW they already pay many taxes like gas, goods and services.

Some pay into SS and never collect it , to do so would get them deported yet they have a phoney number which collects SS they will never claim.

YOU seem to like to pretend they come here and rent an appartment and sit by the pool all day long.

They do back breaking work that their employers gain income on.

 

[Bern80]

YOU seem to like to pretend they come here and rent an appartment and sit by the pool all day long.

You seem to like to assume an awful lot based on very little. In my whole two posts before this what have a said about their working habits that lead you to believe that's what I think?

 

[Shogun]

what if we require that any mexican business that benefits from NAFTA to relocate within a 100 mile buffer zone inside the mexican border so as to create a semblance of American-like living standards in mexico?

or..

usurp (hehehehe) more of Mexicos land in order to revitalize living conditions and create a location to put illegals until they can enter legally? fisrt ones to go back on their own gets first dibs on legal citizenship?

or

give BACK a portion of Texas to serve as much the same solution....


anyone else want to brainstorm ideas or should I have copied and pasted as much instead?

 

[Truthmatters]

Let's just talk whatever the hell your point is.

I'm pretty sure I know how this goes. We do the math, it's some astromical number, so we're just suppossed forget about it right?

How about we do the math on what it will cost to support millions of non-taxpayers instead.

What exactley should we do about oh righteous one?


P.S. i see we still haven't learned how to use the quote function

who are these non tax payers you are talking about?

 

[Bern80]

who are these non tax payers you are talking about?

They would be illegal aliens. I realize you want to make them all citizens to solve that problem. But that wasn't your original argument. Your argument was that CSM's plan would be cost prohibiitive

 

[Truthmatters]

I didnt say it would be cost prohibitive.

I asked him how much would it cost.

The thing is they do pay taxes.

They pay taxes on goods and often pay in to things like SS and never collect it for fear of deportation.

I am trying to get people to stop seeing this as a simple issue.

Its a very complicated situation.

What do you do with the American citizens whos parents you deport?

 

[CSM]

see what I mean?

You are stuck in this one single mind set which will not allow you to even examine the whole issue.

Not true...you want to ignore a critical aspect of the issue and I am not willing to do so.

Illegals are illegals partly because thier is no legal way they can get here.

Either you are intentionally lying to make a point or willfully ignorant on this point. There is indeed a legal means for entering this country.

Do you realise the waiting list is like 18 years long?

Horsecrap. Got a link substantiating that figure?

When you are starving and your mom is breaking her back to feed your Grandma and you little bros and sisters and their is NO work for you and you hear if you go to this town you will get enough money from digging ditches to send to them so they can all eat what would you do?

We are not talking about moving from one town to another....we are talking about entering another country ILLEGALLY. What about that do you refuse to acknowledge? IT IS A CRIMINAL ACT.

By not recogizing that they are in some very extreme conditions and doing this is an avenue like no other they have, you are refusing to examine all the facts like a rational being.

You ignoring the fact that they are criminals wont change the facts either. If these criminals have so much drive, why don't they do whatever is necessary to survive IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY? You know the answer to that ... they want the free handouts they get here from folks like you who want me to sympathize with a bunch of criminals.

This is the same mindset that gives us "oh we cant examine why they hate us ,that is treason". Misdirect and disallowed. We are talking about criminal activity...specifically, illegal immiration.

There may indeed be mitigating circumstances that cause their comission of a crime but that does not exonerate them. Maybe we could deport those who have extenuating circumstances by bus instead of cattle car but that is about as much sympathy as your are going to get out of me.

 

[Bern80]

I didnt say it would be cost prohibitive.

I asked him how much would it cost.

The thing is they do pay taxes.

They pay taxes on goods and often pay in to things like SS and never collect it for fear of deportation.

I am trying to get people to stop seeing this as a simple issue.

Its a very complicated situation.

What do you do with the American citizens whos parents you deport?

It is complex and for many reasons we (the governemnt) let it get that way. To name a few reasons off the top of my head:

1)the gov't gets that these people are cheap labor yet not all that replaceable thus the difficulty with putting our foot down.

2)By most estimates unless things change dramatically here and their countries of origin Hispanic will be the majority race in the nation. In the end that's what the legilators are most interested in, another reason they haven't put their foot down.

3)As you mentioned the issue of illegals haveing chldren in this country this making their children citizens.

It is complex, and on the surface the solution seems simple and clear. Build a 20 foot hight brick wall along the border and no one gets in w/o going through the legal method to citizenship.

I would basically make up 3 groups.

1)Illegals with children born in the U.S. - this group can stay in the U.S. with the provision that they become citizens within the next 5 yrs.

2)Worker visa program - If put into a worker Visa program they would at least be documented. I don't ever care of they pay income tax because as you said they probably pay taxes in other forms. If they want SS they would have to apply for citizenship. they must commute to and from their country of origin. If not feasible (i.e. illegal from overseas) they may stay, but must become citizens within 2 yrs or be deported.

3)Everyone else - If they want to become citizens they must follow established emmigration law to become so.

The part that irks me about the situation we are currently in is that if the laws on teh books were simply followed we wouldn't be in this situation now.

 

[CSM]

I didnt say it would be cost prohibitive.

I asked him how much would it cost.

It doesn't matter how much it costs. How much are you willing to pay to provide our citizens with police protection against criminals?

The thing is they do pay taxes.

The illegals can pay taxes in their own country; maybe that would improve conditions there.

They pay taxes on goods and often pay in to things like SS and never collect it for fear of deportation.

They shouldn't be collecting SS...they are not entitled to it. If they are filing income tax as A US citizen then they are committing fraud on top of their other criminal activity. As for taxes on goods, if they shopped in their country of origin, they would be helping their own economy.

I am trying to get people to stop seeing this as a simple issue.

It is not a simple issue. Prosecuting criminals never is.

Its a very complicated situation.

What do you do with the American citizens whos parents you deport?

Send them home with their parents. When they are 18, they can come back. Meanwhile, change the stinking laws so that wont happen. The law should be that if you are an illegal alien (in other words, a criminal by entering this country illegally) then your kids are not legal citizens.

Deport them all.

 

[Truthmatters]

Sins of the fathers huh?

 

[CSM]

Sins of the fathers huh?

Not really. Remember, if the criminals had not come here in the first place, their children would not be placed in such a position. Besides, I would deport those children without prejudice and consider any future applications for entry into this country from them on equal par with every other person trying to emmigrate to this country LEGALLY.

What about all the other points I made? Ignoring them again?

 

[Truthmatters]

I didnt say it would be cost prohibitive.

I asked him how much would it cost.

"It doesn't matter how much it costs. How much are you willing to pay to provide our citizens with police protection against criminals?"
ok that means you will need to raise taxes, how much is VERY important dont you think?
The thing is they do pay taxes.

"The illegals can pay taxes in their own country; maybe that would improve conditions there."
There are no taxes you can pay if their are no jobsw



They pay taxes on goods and often pay in to things like SS and never collect it for fear of deportation.

They shouldn't be collecting SS...they are not entitled to it. If they are filing income tax as A US citizen then they are committing fraud on top of their other criminal activity. As for taxes on goods, if they shopped in their country of origin, they would be helping their own economy.
[/B]They are not collecting it ,they are paying in to it and then never collecting it. In ohter words putting money in SS for you[/B]
I am trying to get people to stop seeing this as a simple issue.

It is not a simple issue. Prosecuting criminals never is.
[/B]Do we treat a person who killed in self defense the same as someone who did it to inherit money?[/B]

 

[Truthmatters]

Not really. Remember, if the criminals had not come here in the first place, their children would not be placed in such a position. Besides, I would deport those children without prejudice and consider any future applications for entry into this country from them on equal par with every other person trying to emmigrate to this country LEGALLY.

What about all the other points I made? Ignoring them again?

I answered them.

There are mittigating sercumstances in a crime.

You dont lock someone up and throw away the key who is stealing because they are starving to death.

This is a part of American law, you can pretend its not but you would be wrong.

These are desperate people and you want to treat them like craven murderers.

Why is that?

why do you harbor so much hatered for them?

 

[CSM]

I didnt say it would be cost prohibitive.

I asked him how much would it cost.

"It doesn't matter how much it costs. How much are you willing to pay to provide our citizens with police protection against criminals?"

ok that means you will need to raise taxes, how much is VERY important dont you think? Guess what, we already pay taxes for that. There would be even more money for that if we didn't have to use those funds to support the criminals that entered and are now hiding in this country

The thing is they do pay taxes.

How much do ou think they pay in income tax? Taxes on goods they could be buying in their own country.

"The illegals can pay taxes in their own country; maybe that would improve conditions there."
There are no taxes you can pay if their are no jobsw So why arent they doing whatever it takes to create jobs there? These hardworking, creative and industrioous folks you claim they are should be able to handle that, don't you think?


They pay taxes on goods and often pay in to things like SS and never collect it for fear of deportation.

They shouldn't be collecting SS...they are not entitled to it. If they are filing income tax as A US citizen then they are committing fraud on top of their other criminal activity. As for taxes on goods, if they shopped in their country of origin, they would be helping their own economy.

[/B]They are not collecting it ,they are paying in to it and then never collecting it. In ohter words putting money in SS for you[/B] I do not believe nor can you prove that they are paying into SS. If they are, we should use the information to hunt them down and deport them.I am trying to get people to stop seeing this as a simple issue.


It is not a simple issue. Prosecuting criminals never is.
[/B]Do we treat a person who killed in self defense the same as someone who did it to inherit money?[/B] Misdirect and disallowed. We are not talking about murder. We are talking about illegal entry into this country and the criminals who commit such acts.

I have no sympathy for these criminals; once they are jailed or deported I might feel a bit of compassion for them....once they are punished for their crimes and then enter this country LEGALLY.

 

[CSM]

I answered them.

There are mittigating sercumstances in a crime.

Again, mitigating circumstance is NOT justification nor exoneration.

You dont lock someone up and throw away the key who is stealing because they are starving to death.

You prosecute them; maybe even try to rehabilitate them. You DO NOT let them off "scott free".

This is a part of American law, you can pretend its not but you would be wrong.

What is? Coddling criminals? I know the Justice system is screwed up but that is not what we are talking about. If the Justice sytem worked these criminals would be back in the country they came from.

These are desperate people and you want to treat them like craven murderers.

Nope; craven murderers should be executed. I want to treat these people like ILLEGAL ALIENS and deport their asses.

Why is that?

Umm...because they are criminals!!! Have you not been reading my posts???

why do you harbor so much hatered for them? I don't necessarily hate them but I do resent the presumption that they are entitled to citizenship because they are committing a crime and getting away with it.

Tell you what. You admit they are criminals and I will admit they should be deported with as much kindness as this nation can muster.