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All 4 former Ukraine regions vote to join Russia

para bellum

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Most Americans do not support funding the Ukrainian Russian war. Your unsourced poll stat is not worth a grain of salt.

<snip>

“Nearly 60 percent of Americans would support the United States engaging in diplomatic efforts “as soon as possible” to end the war in Ukraine, even if that means Ukraine having to make concessions to Russia, according to a new poll.
These are not the same thing. I looked at both polls. I found your poll by "Data for Progress" to be much more hypothetical and vague than the Reuters poll.

Supporting diplomatic efforts is not controversial.

Your poll does have the non-hypothetical question of continued support to Ukraine. Last question, page 7- the choice is to continue support, with or without simultaneous diplomatic efforts. Republican support 87%, Democratic support 94%. Average 88%.

Both questions are measuring support- the first is unconditional, the second conditions that support on simultaneous diplomatic efforts. The sum then, is the total support- providing diplomatic efforts continue "where possible". (their wording, not mine).

First your poll, then the Reuters/Ipsos poll.


 
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ClaireH

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These are not the same thing. I looked at both polls. I found your poll by "Data for Progress" to be much more hypothetical and vague than the Reuters poll.

Supporting diplomatic efforts is not controversial.

Your poll does have the non-hypothetical question of continued support to Ukraine. Last question, page 7- the choice is to continue support, with or without simultaneous diplomatic efforts. Republican support 87%, Democratic support 94%. Average 88%.

Both questions are measuring support- the first is unconditional, the second conditions that support on simultaneous diplomatic efforts. The sum then, is the total support- providing diplomatic efforts continue "where possible". (their wording, not mine).

First your poll, then the Reuters/Ipsos poll.


Your comment:
“I found your poll by "Data for Progress" to be much more hypothetical and vague than the Reuters poll.”

The above statement is untrue in more than one falsehood being made by you but it’s hard to know if you realize that or not.

For readers who prefer the truth: from the sourced poll I referenced:

“According to a poll conducted by the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft and Data for Progress, 57% of likely voters strongly or somewhat support the US pursuing diplomatic negotiations as soon as possible to end the war in Ukraine, even if it requires Ukraine making compromises with Russia. Just 32% of respondents were strongly or somewhat opposed to this.”

If you are going to participate in a political dialogue on a message board keep it honest or this conversation is over. Wasting board space with flagrant falsehoods might be your goal with this evidence.

Readers- my above response does not mean I believe polling data, ANY polling data, to be valid. A quick course in clinical psychology and comparable course work is a great way to see for yourself how easy it is to manipulate data-any data all day long.
 
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para bellum

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Your comment:
“I found your poll by "Data for Progress" to be much more hypothetical and vague than the Reuters poll.”

The above statement is untrue in more than one falsehood being made by you but it’s hard to know if you realize that or not.
My statement was clearly my opinion, "I found your poll to be more hypothetical and vague than the Reuters Poll"

Even the one you cite is a hypothetical.
"Would you support or oppose the United States pursuing
diplomatic negotiations as soon as possible to end the war in
U k r a i n e , even if it means Ukraine making some
compromises with Russia
?"

The bolding is in the poll, not mine. And to repeat- diplomatic engagement is not controversial. Of course people will support that.

Same with several other questions in that poll,
"please state whether you would still support the U.S. providing aid to Ukraine at current levels if they were to occur"

The first half of the poll is ranking "top 3 issues", none of which get a majority, the closest being "climate change" with democrats getting 49%.

The second half of the poll is mostly hypotheticals- the nature of the questions is "if this were to occur, do you still support?"

higher gas prices
greater economic hardship
risk of nuclear war
risk of an attack on NATO ally
US troops in Ukraine
greater loss of life in Ukraine
permanent loss of territory for Ukraine

You act as if your poll is measuring current opinions, and other than the "top 3 issues" section and the last question, it really isn't doing that at all. It's mostly "what-ifs". This is a comprehension thing on your part. I am not trying to persuade you of anything.

The Reuters poll does not do that. The questions assume the current situation. There are a couple that include "even if the price goes up", but the basis of the question is still current situation.

For me, the Reuters poll is simpler, it's from someone I have heard of, and the questions are less ambiguous. I give it more weight than the "Data for Progress" poll, (whose name sounds to me like some spinoff of the Obama data people).

Regardless, both polls agree that large majorities on both sides support Ukraine.

I posted the links to both polls. Members can look a them and come to their own conclusions. I do not need some journo or talking head to interpret things for me. I look at their source material, and decide for myself what it means.
 

ClaireH

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My statement was clearly my opinion, "I found your poll to be more hypothetical and vague than the Reuters Poll"

Even the one you cite is a hypothetical.
"Would you support or oppose the United States pursuing
diplomatic negotiations as soon as possible to end the war in
U k r a i n e , even if it means Ukraine making some
compromises with Russia
?"

The bolding is in the poll, not mine. And to repeat- diplomatic engagement is not controversial. Of course people will support that.

Same with several other questions in that poll,
"please state whether you would still support the U.S. providing aid to Ukraine at current levels if they were to occur"

The first half of the poll is ranking "top 3 issues", none of which get a majority, the closest being "climate change" with democrats getting 49%.

The second half of the poll is mostly hypotheticals- the nature of the questions is "if this were to occur, do you still support?"

higher gas prices
greater economic hardship
risk of nuclear war
risk of an attack on NATO ally
US troops in Ukraine
greater loss of life in Ukraine
permanent loss of territory for Ukraine

You act as if your poll is measuring current opinions, and other than the "top 3 issues" section and the last question, it really isn't doing that at all. It's mostly "what-ifs". This is a comprehension thing on your part. I am not trying to persuade you of anything.

The Reuters poll does not do that. The questions assume the current situation. There are a couple that include "even if the price goes up", but the basis of the question is still current situation.

For me, the Reuters poll is simpler, it's from someone I have heard of, and the questions are less ambiguous. I give it more weight than the "Data for Progress" poll, (whose name sounds to me like some spinoff of the Obama data people).

Regardless, both polls agree that large majorities on both sides support Ukraine.

I posted the links to both polls. Members can look a them and come to their own conclusions. I do not need some journo or talking head to interpret things for me. I look at their source material, and decide for myself what it means.
Apparently we have different definitions for the word hypothetical. The poll I sourced was an actual poll not a hypothetical poll.

I absolutely agree that readers should make their own judgement call on which one of us is being dishonest in the effort of a factual discussion. I win hands down with constant effort to stick to factual data and not, for instance, make claims that an actual poll that was taken was “hypothetical” and never happened. I only wish to engage with honest posters, and that goes for posters who agree with me and disagree with my positions. You fall short of this basic standard.
 

para bellum

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Apparently we have different definitions for the word hypothetical. The poll I sourced was an actual poll not a hypothetical poll.
Um, the poll was real or I couldn't have linked it.

The questions are mostly hypotheticals. Are you this dense in person?

Quoting myself here:

"The second half of the poll is mostly hypotheticals- the nature of the questions is "if this were to occur, do you still support?"

Obviously I am referring to the wording in the poll- something you were saying could be manipulated by the pollsters to get any response they wanted...

Definition of Hypothetical Question​


A hypothetical question is based on supposition, opinion, personal belief, or conjecture, and not facts. It is not based on reality. It mostly deals with actions and scenarios that might happen, or something that might not have happened as yet, but which could happen. This sort of a question usually requires the questioner to arrange imaginary parameters for the things he supposes.

 
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ClaireH

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Um, the poll was real or I couldn't have linked it.

The questions are mostly hypotheticals. Are you this dense in person?

Instead of choosing to go down your rabbit hole I am going to reiterate my main point - ALL polls can be manipulated by any pollster- all questions, answers and supposed data can “prove” any type of result that any polling org. wants. Most pollsters are well versed in making their polls appear valid, but only on the surface. They know that most responders will not spend the time required to examine each question and the way it’s worded to elicit specific response, and recognize the limited answers per question also manipulated in the wording. Pollsters know that most people aren’t going to take the time to learn the demographics of most polls. For instance, consider a political polling outlet that polls 1,000 people living in CA to postulate some national position. Most likely, the results will be bogus because a greater number of respondents spread out throughout the states is needed (10,000 not 1,000 polled) to increase validity. Concentration of any one state produces bogus results unless it’s an inner-state issue .

There are multiple ways to produce false poll results.
 
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Rust_Cohle

Rust_Cohle

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I guess you haven't gotten past the 3rd or 4th grade mentally. Making fun of kids with genetic diseases, calling everyone "fags".
Are you a retarded faggot kid? Sucks to be you

Wait you think transgender is a genetic disease? LOL 😂 you really are a retard
 
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Rust_Cohle

Rust_Cohle

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Wow, you're dumb.
Says the guy who called transgenderism a genetic disease

1660351967853327.png
 
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Rust_Cohle

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Rust_Cohle

Rust_Cohle

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alexa

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The Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft and Data for Progress has a definite agenda. They would like to bring back Diplomatic negotiations rather than war, war, war. Their answers may have greater specification as in do you want.. if and that is because they believe that thinking of things on a deeper and less violent level is something which quite simply is not happening. There is no talk of it. People who want peace are simply called Putin lovers. Their poll appears to offer people the opportunity to know that there are other possibilities than just war, to allow people to start to think of that as well as to make it known that people can and do think in this way.
 
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Rust_Cohle

Rust_Cohle

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Why do you love Putin cock so much? You can never get enough.
Says the guy posting pictures of Putin cock
 

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