Alcoholism

[Blues Man]

It is not a disease.

It takes commitment to become addicted to alcohol.

In my experience ( my mother was an addict and it killed her) most addicts are nothing but selfish and narcissistic and when the world which they believe should be all about them doesn't live up to their expectations they drink or smoke or shoot up.

I grew up near two kids who were in foster care. Their mother was an alcoholic. The foster family had a son who was the same age. The kids lived with the foster family from the time they were five till they were adults.

The kids were raised the same as their natural son. When they turned 18 both kids became instant alcoholics. They could not control themselves. The natural son had no problem drinking

I think their mothers heavy drinking while they were in the womb subjected them to massive doses of alcohol. They were born alcoholics

No one becomes an instant alcoholic it takes a long time of daily heavy drinking to become addicted

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

It's called a genetic predisposition. The language used in the link also follows the "disease" theory. If your parents, grandparents, etc. are alcoholics/addicts then you would be at a higher risk to become the same. Men are not excluded. In fact, the substance abuse by the father leading up to the time of conception also impacts the baby. Genetics and alcoholism

Both my parents were addicts and yet I have no trouble with booze or drugs.

It takes a long time to get addicted to anything

Becoming an alcoholic takes commitment

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Were you a drug baby or did the addiction come later on down the road?

This is FAS
Fetal alcohol syndrome - Symptoms and causes
Basics about FASDs

You can have a mom that sporadically drank or drank and didn't know they were pregnant and the screening at the time of birth comes out fine and FAS is not diagnosed. At least not right off the bat.

It doesn't take that long to get addicted to heroin, meth, crack, fentanyl. At all. And if you have a newborn that is going through withdrawals from name your drug they are born addicts.

It's a higher risk. You can have five siblings born to drug addicts and 3 of them have substance abuse issues of their own and two don't have any issues. Why? Dunno. I like to call it......don't need to be hit by a mac truck to know it hurts theory.

It takes repeated use over a period of time to become physically addicted to any drug

No one is an addict after one use.

Addiction is a behavioral issue because it doesn't manifest if one does not engage in the behavior of repeated drug use

Marc Lewis: the neuroscientist who believes addiction is not a disease

 

[Blues Man]

I grew up near two kids who were in foster care. Their mother was an alcoholic. The foster family had a son who was the same age. The kids lived with the foster family from the time they were five till they were adults.

The kids were raised the same as their natural son. When they turned 18 both kids became instant alcoholics. They could not control themselves. The natural son had no problem drinking

I think their mothers heavy drinking while they were in the womb subjected them to massive doses of alcohol. They were born alcoholics

No one becomes an instant alcoholic it takes a long time of daily heavy drinking to become addicted

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

It's called a genetic predisposition. The language used in the link also follows the "disease" theory. If your parents, grandparents, etc. are alcoholics/addicts then you would be at a higher risk to become the same. Men are not excluded. In fact, the substance abuse by the father leading up to the time of conception also impacts the baby. Genetics and alcoholism

Both my parents were addicts and yet I have no trouble with booze or drugs.

It takes a long time to get addicted to anything

Becoming an alcoholic takes commitment

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Were you a drug baby or did the addiction come later on down the road?

This is FAS
Fetal alcohol syndrome - Symptoms and causes
Basics about FASDs

You can have a mom that sporadically drank or drank and didn't know they were pregnant and the screening at the time of birth comes out fine and FAS is not diagnosed. At least not right off the bat.

It doesn't take that long to get addicted to heroin, meth, crack, fentanyl. At all. And if you have a newborn that is going through withdrawals from name your drug they are born addicts.

It's a higher risk. You can have five siblings born to drug addicts and 3 of them have substance abuse issues of their own and two don't have any issues. Why? Dunno. I like to call it......don't need to be hit by a mac truck to know it hurts theory.

dsir,
There is clear evidence with addiction and physiological changes in the brain's pleasure centers.

Still, the only real "cure" is to modify behaviors.

Which is why addiction is not a disease

You can cure it by simply abstaining from the substance you are addicted to.

So if I lock an alcoholic in a room where it is impossible for him to get alcohol he will be cured

If I lock a guy with cancer in a room the mere act of locking him in a room will not cure his cancer

Cancer is a disease alcoholism isn't

 

[Disir]

I grew up near two kids who were in foster care. Their mother was an alcoholic. The foster family had a son who was the same age. The kids lived with the foster family from the time they were five till they were adults.

The kids were raised the same as their natural son. When they turned 18 both kids became instant alcoholics. They could not control themselves. The natural son had no problem drinking

I think their mothers heavy drinking while they were in the womb subjected them to massive doses of alcohol. They were born alcoholics

No one becomes an instant alcoholic it takes a long time of daily heavy drinking to become addicted

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

It's called a genetic predisposition. The language used in the link also follows the "disease" theory. If your parents, grandparents, etc. are alcoholics/addicts then you would be at a higher risk to become the same. Men are not excluded. In fact, the substance abuse by the father leading up to the time of conception also impacts the baby. Genetics and alcoholism

Both my parents were addicts and yet I have no trouble with booze or drugs.

It takes a long time to get addicted to anything

Becoming an alcoholic takes commitment

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Were you a drug baby or did the addiction come later on down the road?

This is FAS
Fetal alcohol syndrome - Symptoms and causes
Basics about FASDs

You can have a mom that sporadically drank or drank and didn't know they were pregnant and the screening at the time of birth comes out fine and FAS is not diagnosed. At least not right off the bat.

It doesn't take that long to get addicted to heroin, meth, crack, fentanyl. At all. And if you have a newborn that is going through withdrawals from name your drug they are born addicts.

It's a higher risk. You can have five siblings born to drug addicts and 3 of them have substance abuse issues of their own and two don't have any issues. Why? Dunno. I like to call it......don't need to be hit by a mac truck to know it hurts theory.

It takes repeated use over a period of time to become physically addicted to any drug

No one is an addict after one use.

Addiction is a behavioral issue because it doesn't manifest if one does not engage in the behavior of repeated drug use

Marc Lewis: the neuroscientist who believes addiction is not a disease

I'm thinking there are hella crack heads, meth heads and heroin addicts that would disagree with that due to the first love euphoria upon first contact. No, they wouldn't be addicts if they stopped right there and never touched it again. Even so, the disease theory is just one theory. Personally--I don't buy into the it's a disease theory but it's there and it matters only in how an individual initially approaches treatment (and funding). The genetic predisposition can be shown independent of the disease theory because it's genetic.

I don't disagree with Marc Lewis. I'm looking for anywhere in what I have written that does. However, no where in that article does it say that an alcoholic is cured by placing in a room and removing the ability to obtain alcohol. Usually you win what's called a dry drunk. Are there people that's all it takes? Sure. Can everyone do that? Hell no. You still have to come to terms with all of what I had raised before but without support-which Mr. Lewis points out. If you are in the middle or upper classes you can afford to find a therapist. You usually have a support group. Not so much when looking at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder though.

Either way, it's a cocktail party argument. What matters is the work that is done in between. I have argued on this forum before that you can't force or court order someone into treatment and expect that to work. You have to be sick and tired of being sick and tired.

 

[Hossfly]

 

[Blues Man]

No one becomes an instant alcoholic it takes a long time of daily heavy drinking to become addicted

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

It's called a genetic predisposition. The language used in the link also follows the "disease" theory. If your parents, grandparents, etc. are alcoholics/addicts then you would be at a higher risk to become the same. Men are not excluded. In fact, the substance abuse by the father leading up to the time of conception also impacts the baby. Genetics and alcoholism

Both my parents were addicts and yet I have no trouble with booze or drugs.

It takes a long time to get addicted to anything

Becoming an alcoholic takes commitment

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Were you a drug baby or did the addiction come later on down the road?

This is FAS
Fetal alcohol syndrome - Symptoms and causes
Basics about FASDs

You can have a mom that sporadically drank or drank and didn't know they were pregnant and the screening at the time of birth comes out fine and FAS is not diagnosed. At least not right off the bat.

It doesn't take that long to get addicted to heroin, meth, crack, fentanyl. At all. And if you have a newborn that is going through withdrawals from name your drug they are born addicts.

It's a higher risk. You can have five siblings born to drug addicts and 3 of them have substance abuse issues of their own and two don't have any issues. Why? Dunno. I like to call it......don't need to be hit by a mac truck to know it hurts theory.

It takes repeated use over a period of time to become physically addicted to any drug

No one is an addict after one use.

Addiction is a behavioral issue because it doesn't manifest if one does not engage in the behavior of repeated drug use

Marc Lewis: the neuroscientist who believes addiction is not a disease

I'm thinking there are hella crack heads, meth heads and heroin addicts that would disagree with that due to the first love euphoria upon first contact. No, they wouldn't be addicts if they stopped right there and never touched it again. Even so, the disease theory is just one theory. Personally--I don't buy into the it's a disease theory but it's there and it matters only in how an individual initially approaches treatment (and funding). The genetic predisposition can be shown independent of the disease theory because it's genetic.

I don't disagree with Marc Lewis. I'm looking for anywhere in what I have written that does. However, no where in that article does it say that an alcoholic is cured by placing in a room and removing the ability to obtain alcohol. Usually you win what's called a dry drunk. Are there people that's all it takes? Sure. Can everyone do that? Hell no. You still have to come to terms with all of what I had raised before but without support-which Mr. Lewis points out. If you are in the middle or upper classes you can afford to find a therapist. You usually have a support group. Not so much when looking at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder though.

Either way, it's a cocktail party argument. What matters is the work that is done in between. I have argued on this forum before that you can't force or court order someone into treatment and expect that to work. You have to be sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Addiction is physical not mental

If one is not drinking alcohol it is impossible for him to become addicted

There is no such thing as a dry drunk.

 

[Disir]

View attachment 296960

HEY! HEY! HEY!

Don't be cracking on my drug of choice.

 

[Disir]

It's called a genetic predisposition. The language used in the link also follows the "disease" theory. If your parents, grandparents, etc. are alcoholics/addicts then you would be at a higher risk to become the same. Men are not excluded. In fact, the substance abuse by the father leading up to the time of conception also impacts the baby. Genetics and alcoholism

Both my parents were addicts and yet I have no trouble with booze or drugs.

It takes a long time to get addicted to anything

Becoming an alcoholic takes commitment

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Were you a drug baby or did the addiction come later on down the road?

This is FAS
Fetal alcohol syndrome - Symptoms and causes
Basics about FASDs

You can have a mom that sporadically drank or drank and didn't know they were pregnant and the screening at the time of birth comes out fine and FAS is not diagnosed. At least not right off the bat.

It doesn't take that long to get addicted to heroin, meth, crack, fentanyl. At all. And if you have a newborn that is going through withdrawals from name your drug they are born addicts.

It's a higher risk. You can have five siblings born to drug addicts and 3 of them have substance abuse issues of their own and two don't have any issues. Why? Dunno. I like to call it......don't need to be hit by a mac truck to know it hurts theory.

It takes repeated use over a period of time to become physically addicted to any drug

No one is an addict after one use.

Addiction is a behavioral issue because it doesn't manifest if one does not engage in the behavior of repeated drug use

Marc Lewis: the neuroscientist who believes addiction is not a disease

I'm thinking there are hella crack heads, meth heads and heroin addicts that would disagree with that due to the first love euphoria upon first contact. No, they wouldn't be addicts if they stopped right there and never touched it again. Even so, the disease theory is just one theory. Personally--I don't buy into the it's a disease theory but it's there and it matters only in how an individual initially approaches treatment (and funding). The genetic predisposition can be shown independent of the disease theory because it's genetic.

I don't disagree with Marc Lewis. I'm looking for anywhere in what I have written that does. However, no where in that article does it say that an alcoholic is cured by placing in a room and removing the ability to obtain alcohol. Usually you win what's called a dry drunk. Are there people that's all it takes? Sure. Can everyone do that? Hell no. You still have to come to terms with all of what I had raised before but without support-which Mr. Lewis points out. If you are in the middle or upper classes you can afford to find a therapist. You usually have a support group. Not so much when looking at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder though.

Either way, it's a cocktail party argument. What matters is the work that is done in between. I have argued on this forum before that you can't force or court order someone into treatment and expect that to work. You have to be sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Addiction is physical not mental

If one is not drinking alcohol it is impossible for him to become addicted

There is no such thing as a dry drunk.

There is such a thing. The underlying issues were not addressed. There is a mental component to it. Sometimes the thrill of scoring the drug is as much of an addiction as the drug itself.

 

[Larsky]

No one becomes an instant alcoholic it takes a long time of daily heavy drinking to become addicted

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

It's called a genetic predisposition. The language used in the link also follows the "disease" theory. If your parents, grandparents, etc. are alcoholics/addicts then you would be at a higher risk to become the same. Men are not excluded. In fact, the substance abuse by the father leading up to the time of conception also impacts the baby. Genetics and alcoholism

Both my parents were addicts and yet I have no trouble with booze or drugs.

It takes a long time to get addicted to anything

Becoming an alcoholic takes commitment

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Were you a drug baby or did the addiction come later on down the road?

This is FAS
Fetal alcohol syndrome - Symptoms and causes
Basics about FASDs

You can have a mom that sporadically drank or drank and didn't know they were pregnant and the screening at the time of birth comes out fine and FAS is not diagnosed. At least not right off the bat.

It doesn't take that long to get addicted to heroin, meth, crack, fentanyl. At all. And if you have a newborn that is going through withdrawals from name your drug they are born addicts.

It's a higher risk. You can have five siblings born to drug addicts and 3 of them have substance abuse issues of their own and two don't have any issues. Why? Dunno. I like to call it......don't need to be hit by a mac truck to know it hurts theory.

It takes repeated use over a period of time to become physically addicted to any drug

No one is an addict after one use.

Addiction is a behavioral issue because it doesn't manifest if one does not engage in the behavior of repeated drug use

Marc Lewis: the neuroscientist who believes addiction is not a disease

I'm thinking there are hella crack heads, meth heads and heroin addicts that would disagree with that due to the first love euphoria upon first contact. No, they wouldn't be addicts if they stopped right there and never touched it again. Even so, the disease theory is just one theory. Personally--I don't buy into the it's a disease theory but it's there and it matters only in how an individual initially approaches treatment (and funding). The genetic predisposition can be shown independent of the disease theory because it's genetic.

I don't disagree with Marc Lewis. I'm looking for anywhere in what I have written that does. However, no where in that article does it say that an alcoholic is cured by placing in a room and removing the ability to obtain alcohol. Usually you win what's called a dry drunk. Are there people that's all it takes? Sure. Can everyone do that? Hell no. You still have to come to terms with all of what I had raised before but without support-which Mr. Lewis points out. If you are in the middle or upper classes you can afford to find a therapist. You usually have a support group. Not so much when looking at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder though.

Either way, it's a cocktail party argument. What matters is the work that is done in between. I have argued on this forum before that you can't force or court order someone into treatment and expect that to work. You have to be sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Dr. Kevin McCauley – Pleasure Unwoven | Addiction Education Society

 

[the other mike]

Quit drinking in August 2018 .
Would love to have saved all the money I pissed ...and puked...away
over the past 40 years.

 

[Disir]

It's called a genetic predisposition. The language used in the link also follows the "disease" theory. If your parents, grandparents, etc. are alcoholics/addicts then you would be at a higher risk to become the same. Men are not excluded. In fact, the substance abuse by the father leading up to the time of conception also impacts the baby. Genetics and alcoholism

Both my parents were addicts and yet I have no trouble with booze or drugs.

It takes a long time to get addicted to anything

Becoming an alcoholic takes commitment

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Were you a drug baby or did the addiction come later on down the road?

This is FAS
Fetal alcohol syndrome - Symptoms and causes
Basics about FASDs

You can have a mom that sporadically drank or drank and didn't know they were pregnant and the screening at the time of birth comes out fine and FAS is not diagnosed. At least not right off the bat.

It doesn't take that long to get addicted to heroin, meth, crack, fentanyl. At all. And if you have a newborn that is going through withdrawals from name your drug they are born addicts.

It's a higher risk. You can have five siblings born to drug addicts and 3 of them have substance abuse issues of their own and two don't have any issues. Why? Dunno. I like to call it......don't need to be hit by a mac truck to know it hurts theory.

It takes repeated use over a period of time to become physically addicted to any drug

No one is an addict after one use.

Addiction is a behavioral issue because it doesn't manifest if one does not engage in the behavior of repeated drug use

Marc Lewis: the neuroscientist who believes addiction is not a disease

I'm thinking there are hella crack heads, meth heads and heroin addicts that would disagree with that due to the first love euphoria upon first contact. No, they wouldn't be addicts if they stopped right there and never touched it again. Even so, the disease theory is just one theory. Personally--I don't buy into the it's a disease theory but it's there and it matters only in how an individual initially approaches treatment (and funding). The genetic predisposition can be shown independent of the disease theory because it's genetic.

I don't disagree with Marc Lewis. I'm looking for anywhere in what I have written that does. However, no where in that article does it say that an alcoholic is cured by placing in a room and removing the ability to obtain alcohol. Usually you win what's called a dry drunk. Are there people that's all it takes? Sure. Can everyone do that? Hell no. You still have to come to terms with all of what I had raised before but without support-which Mr. Lewis points out. If you are in the middle or upper classes you can afford to find a therapist. You usually have a support group. Not so much when looking at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder though.

Either way, it's a cocktail party argument. What matters is the work that is done in between. I have argued on this forum before that you can't force or court order someone into treatment and expect that to work. You have to be sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Dr. Kevin McCauley – Pleasure Unwoven | Addiction Education Society

The exact same frontal lobe that deals with time and consequences that doesn't grow in until your late twenties and can successfully be argued continues to grow through someone's 30s. Most substance abuse treatment facilities go through the areas of the brain that it impacts. I still don't consider it a disease.I still consider the disease/nu-huh a cocktail party argument. What matters essentially (to me) is having the motivation to begin identifying and processing what led up to the substance abuse, identifying the triggers, recreating/rebuilding a lifestyle and support system that lifts rather than destroys, managing mental health, dealing with the legal consequences, establishing housing and obtaining and maintaining employment because it's the really, really, really hard work portion.

 

[Larsky]

Both my parents were addicts and yet I have no trouble with booze or drugs.

It takes a long time to get addicted to anything

Becoming an alcoholic takes commitment

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Were you a drug baby or did the addiction come later on down the road?

This is FAS
Fetal alcohol syndrome - Symptoms and causes
Basics about FASDs

You can have a mom that sporadically drank or drank and didn't know they were pregnant and the screening at the time of birth comes out fine and FAS is not diagnosed. At least not right off the bat.

It doesn't take that long to get addicted to heroin, meth, crack, fentanyl. At all. And if you have a newborn that is going through withdrawals from name your drug they are born addicts.

It's a higher risk. You can have five siblings born to drug addicts and 3 of them have substance abuse issues of their own and two don't have any issues. Why? Dunno. I like to call it......don't need to be hit by a mac truck to know it hurts theory.

It takes repeated use over a period of time to become physically addicted to any drug

No one is an addict after one use.

Addiction is a behavioral issue because it doesn't manifest if one does not engage in the behavior of repeated drug use

Marc Lewis: the neuroscientist who believes addiction is not a disease

I'm thinking there are hella crack heads, meth heads and heroin addicts that would disagree with that due to the first love euphoria upon first contact. No, they wouldn't be addicts if they stopped right there and never touched it again. Even so, the disease theory is just one theory. Personally--I don't buy into the it's a disease theory but it's there and it matters only in how an individual initially approaches treatment (and funding). The genetic predisposition can be shown independent of the disease theory because it's genetic.

I don't disagree with Marc Lewis. I'm looking for anywhere in what I have written that does. However, no where in that article does it say that an alcoholic is cured by placing in a room and removing the ability to obtain alcohol. Usually you win what's called a dry drunk. Are there people that's all it takes? Sure. Can everyone do that? Hell no. You still have to come to terms with all of what I had raised before but without support-which Mr. Lewis points out. If you are in the middle or upper classes you can afford to find a therapist. You usually have a support group. Not so much when looking at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder though.

Either way, it's a cocktail party argument. What matters is the work that is done in between. I have argued on this forum before that you can't force or court order someone into treatment and expect that to work. You have to be sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Dr. Kevin McCauley – Pleasure Unwoven | Addiction Education Society

The exact same frontal lobe that deals with time and consequences that doesn't grow in until your late twenties and can successfully be argued continues to grow through someone's 30s. Most substance abuse treatment facilities go through the areas of the brain that it impacts. I still don't consider it a disease.I still consider the disease/nu-huh a cocktail party argument. What matters essentially (to me) is having the motivation to begin identifying and processing what led up to the substance abuse, identifying the triggers, recreating/rebuilding a lifestyle and support system that lifts rather than destroys, managing mental health, dealing with the legal consequences, establishing housing and obtaining and maintaining employment because it's the really, really, really hard work portion.

I agree with you on all those points. My point is something is different in an addict's brain. The drug of choice becomes the most desired thing, subconsciously deep down.

The "Why don't you just stop" argument drives me nuts. It's managing an addicted brain. (IMO)

 

[the other mike]

I agree with you on all those points. My point is something is different in an addict's brain. The drug of choice becomes the most desired thing, subconsciously deep down.

The "Why don't you just stop" argument drives me nuts. It's managing an addicted brain. (IMO)

Motivation is the key.
Like when I finally quit smoking 10 years ago, it was
because a doctor advised me to.

Really I advised myself... ( long story short, in 2009 I went in for a minor out-patient hernia repair surgery and when I came to from the anesthesia, the surgeon told me I was 'having trouble breathing' and gave me some inhalers and recommended a respiratory specialist- never even asked me if I smoked, which I'd been doing for 31 years, just assumed he knew.. So I made up my mind right there....actually I quit 2 weeks later on July 4th and never looked back...)

So you're right - some addiction is physical but most is in your mind.

 

[Disir]

Were you a drug baby or did the addiction come later on down the road?

This is FAS
Fetal alcohol syndrome - Symptoms and causes
Basics about FASDs

You can have a mom that sporadically drank or drank and didn't know they were pregnant and the screening at the time of birth comes out fine and FAS is not diagnosed. At least not right off the bat.

It doesn't take that long to get addicted to heroin, meth, crack, fentanyl. At all. And if you have a newborn that is going through withdrawals from name your drug they are born addicts.

It's a higher risk. You can have five siblings born to drug addicts and 3 of them have substance abuse issues of their own and two don't have any issues. Why? Dunno. I like to call it......don't need to be hit by a mac truck to know it hurts theory.

It takes repeated use over a period of time to become physically addicted to any drug

No one is an addict after one use.

Addiction is a behavioral issue because it doesn't manifest if one does not engage in the behavior of repeated drug use

Marc Lewis: the neuroscientist who believes addiction is not a disease

I'm thinking there are hella crack heads, meth heads and heroin addicts that would disagree with that due to the first love euphoria upon first contact. No, they wouldn't be addicts if they stopped right there and never touched it again. Even so, the disease theory is just one theory. Personally--I don't buy into the it's a disease theory but it's there and it matters only in how an individual initially approaches treatment (and funding). The genetic predisposition can be shown independent of the disease theory because it's genetic.

I don't disagree with Marc Lewis. I'm looking for anywhere in what I have written that does. However, no where in that article does it say that an alcoholic is cured by placing in a room and removing the ability to obtain alcohol. Usually you win what's called a dry drunk. Are there people that's all it takes? Sure. Can everyone do that? Hell no. You still have to come to terms with all of what I had raised before but without support-which Mr. Lewis points out. If you are in the middle or upper classes you can afford to find a therapist. You usually have a support group. Not so much when looking at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder though.

Either way, it's a cocktail party argument. What matters is the work that is done in between. I have argued on this forum before that you can't force or court order someone into treatment and expect that to work. You have to be sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Dr. Kevin McCauley – Pleasure Unwoven | Addiction Education Society

The exact same frontal lobe that deals with time and consequences that doesn't grow in until your late twenties and can successfully be argued continues to grow through someone's 30s. Most substance abuse treatment facilities go through the areas of the brain that it impacts. I still don't consider it a disease.I still consider the disease/nu-huh a cocktail party argument. What matters essentially (to me) is having the motivation to begin identifying and processing what led up to the substance abuse, identifying the triggers, recreating/rebuilding a lifestyle and support system that lifts rather than destroys, managing mental health, dealing with the legal consequences, establishing housing and obtaining and maintaining employment because it's the really, really, really hard work portion.

I agree with you on all those points. My point is something is different in an addict's brain. The drug of choice becomes the most desired thing, subconsciously deep down.

The "Why don't you just stop" argument drives me nuts. It's managing an addicted brain. (IMO)

There is something different in an addicts brain. I agree wholeheartedly. I don't subscribe to the "Why don't you just stop" argument. You have to reach a point where you are sick and tired of being sick and tired. You have to be fed up with where you are at and your own bullshit, the bullshit of those around you, and you are ready for change.

It will take months and months for the brain to repair itself after you stop using meth. The world is finally coming around to recognizing that some of these folks are not just OD'ing on heroin or shooting meth by accident. It's suicide and it's intentional.

Alcohol/drugs is such a huge part of people's lives that it impacts everything. It is tied to every single thing-celebrations, mourning, "tough days", relationships, sex. Constant drama (real or imaginary) ensures a never ending supply of reasons to use especially if you have an intimate partner or friendships that are based on drugs or partying. That's the brain searching for justification and in denial that there is a problem.

 

[Blues Man]

Both my parents were addicts and yet I have no trouble with booze or drugs.

It takes a long time to get addicted to anything

Becoming an alcoholic takes commitment

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Were you a drug baby or did the addiction come later on down the road?

This is FAS
Fetal alcohol syndrome - Symptoms and causes
Basics about FASDs

You can have a mom that sporadically drank or drank and didn't know they were pregnant and the screening at the time of birth comes out fine and FAS is not diagnosed. At least not right off the bat.

It doesn't take that long to get addicted to heroin, meth, crack, fentanyl. At all. And if you have a newborn that is going through withdrawals from name your drug they are born addicts.

It's a higher risk. You can have five siblings born to drug addicts and 3 of them have substance abuse issues of their own and two don't have any issues. Why? Dunno. I like to call it......don't need to be hit by a mac truck to know it hurts theory.

It takes repeated use over a period of time to become physically addicted to any drug

No one is an addict after one use.

Addiction is a behavioral issue because it doesn't manifest if one does not engage in the behavior of repeated drug use

Marc Lewis: the neuroscientist who believes addiction is not a disease

I'm thinking there are hella crack heads, meth heads and heroin addicts that would disagree with that due to the first love euphoria upon first contact. No, they wouldn't be addicts if they stopped right there and never touched it again. Even so, the disease theory is just one theory. Personally--I don't buy into the it's a disease theory but it's there and it matters only in how an individual initially approaches treatment (and funding). The genetic predisposition can be shown independent of the disease theory because it's genetic.

I don't disagree with Marc Lewis. I'm looking for anywhere in what I have written that does. However, no where in that article does it say that an alcoholic is cured by placing in a room and removing the ability to obtain alcohol. Usually you win what's called a dry drunk. Are there people that's all it takes? Sure. Can everyone do that? Hell no. You still have to come to terms with all of what I had raised before but without support-which Mr. Lewis points out. If you are in the middle or upper classes you can afford to find a therapist. You usually have a support group. Not so much when looking at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder though.

Either way, it's a cocktail party argument. What matters is the work that is done in between. I have argued on this forum before that you can't force or court order someone into treatment and expect that to work. You have to be sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Addiction is physical not mental

If one is not drinking alcohol it is impossible for him to become addicted

There is no such thing as a dry drunk.

There is such a thing. The underlying issues were not addressed. There is a mental component to it. Sometimes the thrill of scoring the drug is as much of an addiction as the drug itself.

This is why addiction is not a disease

People do drugs as an escape from their situation.

If the brain of an addict was different then we should be able to know who will be an addict before they become addicted to anything

An MRI or a PET scan would show something

That is not the case



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[the other mike]

If the brain of an addict was different then we should be able to know who will be an addict before they become addicted to anything

Let's just start all the kids on Ritilin at age 7, just to make sure
they'll be addicts.

(memo from Merck CEO to Pfizer CEO)

 

[the other mike]

Here's a better one.
Flood the streets with drugs then build a lot of prisons and create a police state
and go around locking up all the addicts.

(memo from ex CIA director and VP, George HW Bush to Governor Bill Clinton of Arkansas)

 

[Disir]

Were you a drug baby or did the addiction come later on down the road?

This is FAS
Fetal alcohol syndrome - Symptoms and causes
Basics about FASDs

You can have a mom that sporadically drank or drank and didn't know they were pregnant and the screening at the time of birth comes out fine and FAS is not diagnosed. At least not right off the bat.

It doesn't take that long to get addicted to heroin, meth, crack, fentanyl. At all. And if you have a newborn that is going through withdrawals from name your drug they are born addicts.

It's a higher risk. You can have five siblings born to drug addicts and 3 of them have substance abuse issues of their own and two don't have any issues. Why? Dunno. I like to call it......don't need to be hit by a mac truck to know it hurts theory.

It takes repeated use over a period of time to become physically addicted to any drug

No one is an addict after one use.

Addiction is a behavioral issue because it doesn't manifest if one does not engage in the behavior of repeated drug use

Marc Lewis: the neuroscientist who believes addiction is not a disease

I'm thinking there are hella crack heads, meth heads and heroin addicts that would disagree with that due to the first love euphoria upon first contact. No, they wouldn't be addicts if they stopped right there and never touched it again. Even so, the disease theory is just one theory. Personally--I don't buy into the it's a disease theory but it's there and it matters only in how an individual initially approaches treatment (and funding). The genetic predisposition can be shown independent of the disease theory because it's genetic.

I don't disagree with Marc Lewis. I'm looking for anywhere in what I have written that does. However, no where in that article does it say that an alcoholic is cured by placing in a room and removing the ability to obtain alcohol. Usually you win what's called a dry drunk. Are there people that's all it takes? Sure. Can everyone do that? Hell no. You still have to come to terms with all of what I had raised before but without support-which Mr. Lewis points out. If you are in the middle or upper classes you can afford to find a therapist. You usually have a support group. Not so much when looking at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder though.

Either way, it's a cocktail party argument. What matters is the work that is done in between. I have argued on this forum before that you can't force or court order someone into treatment and expect that to work. You have to be sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Addiction is physical not mental

If one is not drinking alcohol it is impossible for him to become addicted

There is no such thing as a dry drunk.

There is such a thing. The underlying issues were not addressed. There is a mental component to it. Sometimes the thrill of scoring the drug is as much of an addiction as the drug itself.

This is why addiction is not a disease

People do drugs as an escape from their situation.

If the brain of an addict was different then we should be able to know who will be an addict before they become addicted to anything

An MRI or a PET scan would show something

That is not the case



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

They are currently using fMRI to study the brain. Note that they have not spent a lot of time studying five of the six networks. Further, they have not done research on the brain before drug use. Although, it's kind of cute how they mention adolescents and addiction to marijuana or alcohol---because thats so 40 years ago.
How Drug Addiction Hijacks the Brain | Live Science

Increased risk in intergenerational substance abuse. This is what I was talking about before.

 

[Blues Man]

It takes repeated use over a period of time to become physically addicted to any drug

No one is an addict after one use.

Addiction is a behavioral issue because it doesn't manifest if one does not engage in the behavior of repeated drug use

Marc Lewis: the neuroscientist who believes addiction is not a disease

I'm thinking there are hella crack heads, meth heads and heroin addicts that would disagree with that due to the first love euphoria upon first contact. No, they wouldn't be addicts if they stopped right there and never touched it again. Even so, the disease theory is just one theory. Personally--I don't buy into the it's a disease theory but it's there and it matters only in how an individual initially approaches treatment (and funding). The genetic predisposition can be shown independent of the disease theory because it's genetic.

I don't disagree with Marc Lewis. I'm looking for anywhere in what I have written that does. However, no where in that article does it say that an alcoholic is cured by placing in a room and removing the ability to obtain alcohol. Usually you win what's called a dry drunk. Are there people that's all it takes? Sure. Can everyone do that? Hell no. You still have to come to terms with all of what I had raised before but without support-which Mr. Lewis points out. If you are in the middle or upper classes you can afford to find a therapist. You usually have a support group. Not so much when looking at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder though.

Either way, it's a cocktail party argument. What matters is the work that is done in between. I have argued on this forum before that you can't force or court order someone into treatment and expect that to work. You have to be sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Addiction is physical not mental

If one is not drinking alcohol it is impossible for him to become addicted

There is no such thing as a dry drunk.

There is such a thing. The underlying issues were not addressed. There is a mental component to it. Sometimes the thrill of scoring the drug is as much of an addiction as the drug itself.

This is why addiction is not a disease

People do drugs as an escape from their situation.

If the brain of an addict was different then we should be able to know who will be an addict before they become addicted to anything

An MRI or a PET scan would show something

That is not the case



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

They are currently using fMRI to study the brain. Note that they have not spent a lot of time studying five of the six networks. Further, they have not done research on the brain before drug use. Although, it's kind of cute how they mention adolescents and addiction to marijuana or alcohol---because thats so 40 years ago.
How Drug Addiction Hijacks the Brain | Live Science

Increased risk in intergenerational substance abuse. This is what I was talking about before.

Once again we see that in addiction that all of the physical changes occur after the behavior of repeated drug use.

So it is not the brain of the person that is different before they start using

Behavior causes addiction

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[Larsky]

Going on six months. There's been a couple setbacks, and a lot more to do.

To those who reached out, and advised, many thanks.

 

[Jitss617]

I stopped drinking for 3 1/2 years went back it’s been issues every time I drink