Afterlife….How About For You?

[HaShev]

It is also interesting that many of Christendom's Bible translations render H5315/nephesh with words other than "soul" to hide the fact that the soul dies. One of the most amazing (to me) examples is KJV at Deuteronomy 19:11 which actually refers to striking a soul to death:

(KJV+) Deu_19:11 But ifH3588 any manH376 hateH1961 H8130 his neighbour,H7453 and lie in waitH693 for him, and rise upH6965 againstH5921 him, and smiteH5221 him mortallyH5315 that he die,H4191 and fleethH5127 intoH413 oneH259 of theseH411 cities:H5892

Can you imagine? Translating H5315/nephesh as "mortally!"

In contrast, Christendom teaches the immortality of the soul!

However, in all fairness, KJV at Ezekiel 18:4,20 does read that the soul dies.

It's because your processor (vessel& BRAIN) dies is liken to your computer AND IT'S board AND DRIVE dying the memory dies with it, and unless you extract that memory and transfer it the memory is no more (I believe memory no more is in Psalms?).
I would be able to leave the verses if it wasn't for a DEAD phone where IT'S MEMORY IS NO MORE. *L*
Although what makes you unique as in figuratively your spirit of being or soul (nature of being -personality) like how you think and do things and conceptualize can live on in others through influencing other to be like you, reaching and teaching, mitzvahs, influence in off spring and collegues and friends thus the saying we always have a piece of them with us or spirit of them surrounding us or the expression team spirit or soul of the team being figurative without anthropomorphic expression. Thus a team spirit or soul of the team can be broken or die out means it's tendencies,nature, drive and such wither away and their ways change.

 

[Michael1985]

"Pascal's wager is an argument in philosophy presented by the seventeenth-century French philosopher, mathematician and physicist, Blaise Pascal (1623–1662).[1] It posits that humans bet with their lives that God either exists or does not.

Pascal argues that a rational person should live as though God exists and seek to believe in God. If God does not actually exist, such a person will have only a finite loss (some pleasures, luxury, etc.), whereas he stands to receive infinite gains (as represented by eternity in Heaven) and avoid infinite losses (eternity in Hell)."

Pascal's wager - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I've long agreed with Pascal. It's what makes me a believer as opposed to being a lost and confused human being when it comes to the religion thing. As for what I think happens, a human's essence or soul or whatever term you want descends to She'ol where it falls asleep until the end of days when judgement occurs, and this is true for good, evil, and everything in between.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Afterlife….How About For You?
SUBTOPIC: A Philosophical Question
※→ Michael1985, PoliticalChic, Harmonica, el al,

BLUF: Blaise Pascal (1623–1662) Was just expounding on a 3000(+) y/o concept.

Pascal argues that a rational person should live as though God exists and seek to believe in God. If God does not actually exist, such a person will have only a finite loss (some pleasures, luxury, etc.), whereas he stands to receive infinite gains (as represented by eternity in Heaven) and avoid infinite losses (eternity in Hell)."

I've long agreed with Pascal. It's what makes me a believer as opposed to being a lost and confused human being when it comes to the religion thing. As for what I think happens, a human's essence or soul or whatever term you want descends to She'ol where it falls asleep until the end of days when judgement occurs, and this is true for good, evil, and everything in between.

..actually a rational person does not believe in god
...what gains and losses???!!! = ridiculous because no one can prove there is a god
I'll say it again, that's outrageous
Definition of outrageous

1a: exceeding the limits of what is usualthe outrageous weather we have been afflicted with— New Yorkeroutrageous prices
b: not conventional or matter-of-fact : FANTASTIC

(SUBCOMMENT)

Our friend harmonica is on a path that many, many follow. And in some respects, you cannot challenge his line of thought.

But if you retrace the though line, you come to a bifercated point where you either challenge it on a "religous" basis, or a "scientific" basis.

(LOGIC PATH)

I believe, as do many, that Pascal (on this question) jumped the tracks. Remember that IF you cannot subject the theory to the "Scientific Process" THEN it is not "science." And on that basis, the concepts of "String Theory" - "The Supreme Being" - or - "Life After Death" all have something in common. They are not actually science (Subquestion, should any be believed?). These three concepts belong in the "Metaphysical" category. "String Theory" is different from the others because - as it goes - there is some very impressive mathematics behind it. But then, so does the concept of "infinity."

(COMMENT)

The ideas and concepts behind the "human's essence or soul" has some evidentiary witness statements and claims. But it is still in the Metaphysics category (subcategory paranormal or supernatural).

(NOTE: Supernatural, a manifestation or event attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.)​

Pascal's challenge is based on logic and statistics. He was acting along the lines of the modern day fantasy → "Mentat." The Mentat Line was followed by the "Bene Gesserit" priestess order (ie a religous hand). The importance here is that these supernatural concepts live on in modern day religions, in the same way that "alchemy" does.

(NOTE: Alchemy, the medieval forerunner of chemistry, based on the supposed transformation of matter.)​

The "After-Life" - "Near Death Experiences" - "Ghostly Apparitions" are all derivatives of concepts that are very old and beyond scientific understanding. But in the study of the paranormal and MetaPhyscis those matters are converging on science.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Moonglow]

Nobody knows..

 

[bluzman61]

Nobody knows..

You are CORRECT about that, MG. I don't agree with you on much, this time I do.

 

[Tax Man]

Assuming, of course, that you’re not a government school nihilist…y'know, and believe human beings are nothing but accidental constructions of mud and dust.

For those of us who believe otherwise.....

1.We learned about reward and punishment early on, perhaps via this catechism:

He's making a list
He's checking it twice
Gonna find out who's naughty and nice
Santa Claus is coming to town
Santa Claus is coming to town
Santa Claus is coming to town

He sees when you are sleeping
He knows when you're awake
He knows if you been good or bad
So be good for goodness sake

2. At some point later in life it became a more serious question, whether there is something after we shuffle off this mortal coil, and might give some of us pause. Of course, not those victims of government school indoctrination, which does everything possible to marginalize, ridicule, erase, any links to religious traditions. For those folks, it’s government we must worship, and the best part is that the great god government is there to reward all no matter if they’re good or bad. Kind of removes that burden of responsibility.



3. But…”Christian beliefs about life after death are based on the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Christians believe that Jesus’ death and resurrection are part of God’s divine plan for humankind. Through his death on the cross, Jesus pays the penalty for mankind's sin and mankind's relationship with God is restored. This is called atonement. Christians believe that three days after the crucifixion, God raised Jesus from the dead and he once again appeared to his disciples. This is taken to mean that Jesus’ sacrifice was a victory over sin and death. Although physical death still happens, those who believe in Christ and live good lives will be given eternal life in Heaven.” What does Christianity say about life after death? - Life after death - GCSE Religious Studies Revision - BBC Bitesize.

And if you read Dante, you have a darn good picture of the damage you will face, depending on how bad you are. Although there was a bar called ‘The Ninth Circle,” in the Village, that was pretty OK……

I always gravitated to the view of the Argentine poet, Jorge Louis Borges: "I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library"



4. The Old Testament appears to be clear, if subtle, on the issue of an afterlife.

In telling Abraham, the first Jewish person, of his future, there is this:

15.15 As for you, You shall go to your fathers

“Often, in describing death, the Torah and the rest of the Hebrew Bible use the phrase “gathered to one’s kin.” Here, the Torah describes Abram’s eventual death as Abram going “to your fathers.” For reasons I will explain at length, the Torah never directly declares there is an afterlife. But throughout the Torah, an afterlife is clearly implied. Sarna notes, “In whatever form, the phrase certainly originates from the belief in an afterlife in which one is reunited with one’s ancestors irrespective of where they are buried.” Dennis Prager, “Genesis”



Make you feel better?

My first ten years of life were as a religious pawn. It was only when I grew up in teens that I saw the ignorance of a god. After life is peace and quite.

 

[PoliticalChic]

My first ten years of life were as a religious pawn. It was only when I grew up in teens that I saw the ignorance of a god. After life is peace and quite.

I'm gonna conclude that the first ten years of your life were filled with as much ignorance and stupidity and the other five.
There can be no other conclusion about a dolt who actually posts:

"After life is peace and quite."

 

[harmonica]

RoccoR plain and very simple--there is no god--no one can prove it ..and no one has to disprove or prove there is not a god

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Assuming, of course, that you’re not a government school nihilist…y'know, and believe human beings are nothing but accidental constructions of mud and dust.

For those of us who believe otherwise.....

1.We learned about reward and punishment early on, perhaps via this catechism:

He's making a list
He's checking it twice
Gonna find out who's naughty and nice
Santa Claus is coming to town
Santa Claus is coming to town
Santa Claus is coming to town

He sees when you are sleeping
He knows when you're awake
He knows if you been good or bad
So be good for goodness sake

2. At some point later in life it became a more serious question, whether there is something after we shuffle off this mortal coil, and might give some of us pause. Of course, not those victims of government school indoctrination, which does everything possible to marginalize, ridicule, erase, any links to religious traditions. For those folks, it’s government we must worship, and the best part is that the great god government is there to reward all no matter if they’re good or bad. Kind of removes that burden of responsibility.



3. But…”Christian beliefs about life after death are based on the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Christians believe that Jesus’ death and resurrection are part of God’s divine plan for humankind. Through his death on the cross, Jesus pays the penalty for mankind's sin and mankind's relationship with God is restored. This is called atonement. Christians believe that three days after the crucifixion, God raised Jesus from the dead and he once again appeared to his disciples. This is taken to mean that Jesus’ sacrifice was a victory over sin and death. Although physical death still happens, those who believe in Christ and live good lives will be given eternal life in Heaven.” What does Christianity say about life after death? - Death and the afterlife - GCSE Religious Studies Revision - WJEC - BBC Bitesize.

And if you read Dante, you have a darn good picture of the damage you will face, depending on how bad you are. Although there was a bar called ‘The Ninth Circle,” in the Village, that was pretty OK……

I always gravitated to the view of the Argentine poet, Jorge Louis Borges: "I have always imagined that paradise will be a kind of library"



4. The Old Testament appears to be clear, if subtle, on the issue of an afterlife.

In telling Abraham, the first Jewish person, of his future, there is this:

15.15 As for you, You shall go to your fathers

“Often, in describing death, the Torah and the rest of the Hebrew Bible use the phrase “gathered to one’s kin.” Here, the Torah describes Abram’s eventual death as Abram going “to your fathers.” For reasons I will explain at length, the Torah never directly declares there is an afterlife. But throughout the Torah, an afterlife is clearly implied. Sarna notes, “In whatever form, the phrase certainly originates from the belief in an afterlife in which one is reunited with one’s ancestors irrespective of where they are buried.” Dennis Prager, “Genesis”



Make you feel better?

Santa Claus is coming to town?

 

[ding]

I believe, as do many, that Pascal (on this question) jumped the tracks.

Paschal believed there were so many positive benefits of belief that non-belief is illogical. That is the basis of his wager. If he was wrong, he still benefited from the better life.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Afterlife….How About For You?
SUBTOPIC: A Philosophical Question (2)
※→ ding, et al,

Much can be said relative to the geography of death and its benefits in life (assuming the existence of the individual and some realm that might exist beyond the individual's comprehension).

In the belief in such a thing as an "afterlife," there are many "assumptions" that must be made; the first of which is a belief in some sort of a real supernatural (flexible in definition).

I believe, as do many, that Pascal (on this question) jumped the tracks.

Paschal believed there were so many positive benefits of belief that non-belief is illogical. That is the basis of his wager. If he was wrong, he still benefited from the better life.

(COMMENT)

"I" believe your position, supra, is well founded; but maybe... It should be considered in this evaluation that it is fallacious to think that something is true or correct just because it is a popular belief beyond the limits of truth (Argumentum ad populum). Similarly, it is questionable as to whether a premise (of an afterlife) must be true because it cannot be the subject of scientific inquiry or otherwise proven "false" (Argumentum ad ignorantium).

(∴) THUS: The belief in a supernatural location or geographic dimension in which the "afterlife" exists can neither be "logical" nor "illogical." The "afterlife" is an undefined term (no universally accepted definition). It is a metaphysical concept in the mind of the individual believer.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[ding]

RE: Afterlife….How About For You?
SUBTOPIC: A Philosophical Question (2)
※→ ding, et al,

Much can be said relative to the geography of death and its benefits in life (assuming the existence of the individual and some realm that might exist beyond the individual's comprehension).

In the belief in such a thing as an "afterlife," there are many "assumptions" that must be made; the first of which is a belief in some sort of a real supernatural (flexible in definition).



(COMMENT)

"I" believe your position, supra, is well founded; but maybe... It should be considered in this evaluation that it is fallacious to think that something is true or correct just because it is a popular belief beyond the limits of truth (Argumentum ad populum). Similarly, it is questionable as to whether a premise (of an afterlife) must be true because it cannot be the subject of scientific inquiry or otherwise proven "false" (Argumentum ad ignorantium).

(∴) THUS: The belief in a supernatural location or geographic dimension in which the "afterlife" exists can neither be "logical" nor "illogical." The "afterlife" is an undefined term (no universally accepted definition). It is a metaphysical concept in the mind of the individual believer.

Most Respectfully,
R

The thing is I don't believe anyone who believes in God on more than a notional or superficial level cares one bit about the after life question (I know I don't.) For them - and I - it is about living our lives and progressing; evolving in our humanity; dealing with what is brought to us. And for that there is no wager because it is no contest. My life has been enriched beyond measure through my relationship with God because it has allowed me to see reality. It switches on all the learning centers of the mind.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Afterlife….How About For You?
SUBTOPIC: A Philosophical Question (3)
※→ ding, et al,

Again, belief in one or more deities ("First Cause," the "Creator," the "Ultimate Power of the Universe," or the "Supreme Being" etc) is a belief in the supernatural (akin to wizardry and magic).

My life has been enriched beyond measure through my relationship with God because it has allowed me to see reality. It switches on all the learning centers of the mind.

(COMMENT)

There is nothing wrong with such beliefs as long as it is not taken to extremes (radicalized). And, as hinted, there are many examples throughout history when such beliefs had positive impacts on the individual and even the society. But, more often than not, such beliefs have hurt many cultures.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[ding]

Again, belief in one or more deities ("First Cause," the "Creator," the "Ultimate Power of the Universe," or the "Supreme Being" etc) is a belief in the supernatural (akin to wizardry and magic).

That's a matter of perspective. From the supernatural's perspective its existence is quite natural. Our knowledge is limited to our existence. Anything outside of that we consider supernatural.

I dispute your assertion that it is akin to wizardry and magic. That seems designed to dismiss the valid exploration of what exists outside of our existence. It tends to ridicule it rather than encourage serious contemplation. For me, what you would call magic or wizardry is consciousness without form.

There is nothing wrong with such beliefs as long as it is not taken to extremes (radicalized). And, as hinted, there are many examples throughout history when such beliefs had positive impacts on the individual and even the society. But, more often than not, such beliefs have hurt many cultures.

So I agree that balance in all things is important, but I won't go so far as forcing that belief on others. From my experience these things work themselves out on their own. It's the nature of the conflict and confusion process necessary to discover objective truth or reality. People have to come to terms with it on their timeline, not ours. Everything serves a purpose towards that end. You can't steer the ball. Sometimes you have to let things be. And trust - or have faith - in the process.

 

[braalian]

Do you remember before you were born?

That’s the most likely scenario for what’s after death

 

[ding]

Do you remember before you were born?

That’s the most likely scenario for what’s after death

I have heard that some eastern faiths believe that life is a forgetting and death is a remembering. So from their perspective, they would argue the opposite.