Afghanistan sentences journalist to death for downloading report on women's rights

[DeadCanDance]

The government of Afghantistan is executing a journalist for downloading a report on women's rights. Congratulations. This is allegedly post-taliban afghanistan, and this is the afghan government we've invested oceans of blood and treasure creating and defending:

A young man, a student of journalism, is sentenced to death by an Islamic court for downloading a report from the internet. The sentence is then upheld by the country's rulers. This is Afghanistan – not in Taliban times but six years after "liberation" and under the democratic rule of the West's ally Hamid Karzai.

The fate of Sayed Pervez Kambaksh has led to domestic and international protests, and deepening concern about erosion of civil liberties in Afghanistan. He was accused of blasphemy after he downloaded a report from a Farsi website which stated that Muslim fundamentalists who claimed the Koran justified the oppression of women had misrepresented the views of the prophet Mohamed.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...dared-to-read-about-womens-rights-775972.html

 

[Gunny]

The government of Afghantistan is executing a journalist for downloading a report on women's rights. Congratulations. This is allegedly post-taliban afghanistan, and this is the afghan government we've invested oceans of blood and treasure creating and defending:

Our enemy is the Taliban. Are you proposing that we interfere in a sovereign nation's business because YOU don't like how they do things?

I don't recall ever hearing anyone claim the Afghanistan government was a model of Western democracy.

Too bad you don't hold yourself to the same standards you try to hold those you disagree with to.

 

[Diuretic]

Our enemy is the Taliban. Are you proposing that we interfere in a sovereign nation's business because YOU don't like how they do things?

I don't recall ever hearing anyone claim the Afghanistan government was a model of Western democracy.

Too bad you don't hold yourself to the same standards you try to hold those you disagree with to.

Gunny I think it's possible to condemn any nation if you believe in the unversality of human rights. Now before you get out the fly spray hang on for a minute. I agree that a sovereign nation can't be interfered with but it can be assailed with condemnations and in this case it's richly deserved.

The question is, why the hell are our - yes, "our" - military personnel dying for these feudal bastards?

 

[Gunny]

Gunny I think it's possible to condemn any nation if you believe in the unversality of human rights. Now before you get out the fly spray hang on for a minute. I agree that a sovereign nation can't be interfered with but it can be assailed with condemnations and in this case it's richly deserved.

The question is, why the hell are our - yes, "our" - military personnel dying for these feudal bastards?

I don't know that I actually believe in the universality of human rights. One of the biggest flaws I have seen over the years is our judging other cultures by Western standards.

One of the most absurd arguments made since we have become re-involved in the Middle East is the left demanding to know where the Western democracy is. To be fair, any Western-thinking idealist that thought they were going to install a Western democracy in the Arab world is just as loopy.

Arabs don't think like us. I got called a racist last time I said that, which is bullshit. Their culture is different, period. They don't live as we do, nor believe the same things we do.

So, what you are really saying is if I believe in the universality of human rights according to Judeo-Christian Western culture. Nice idea, but I've seen enough of the world to know that universality doesn't exist.

We went in to Afghanistan to remove the Taliban from power, and as a starting point to combatting terrorism. As far as Afghanistan is concerned, I don't see that our military personnel are dying for any "feudal bastards." They're waging a war against the Taliban.

 

[Diuretic]

I don't know that I actually believe in the universality of human rights. One of the biggest flaws I have seen over the years is our judging other cultures by Western standards.

Yes, I'm thinking from my own cultural background and yes it's a cultural background influenced by the Enlightenment. But that doesn't invalidate it. I'd argue that it's a superior culture to the religious feudalism in Afghanistan, in fact defending my position would be good refresher training for my jetlagged mushy mind.

One of the most absurd arguments made since we have become re-involved in the Middle East is the left demanding to know where the Western democracy is. To be fair, any Western-thinking idealist that thought they were going to install a Western democracy in the Arab world is just as loopy.

Arabs don't think like us. I got called a racist last time I said that, which is bullshit. Their culture is different, period. They don't live as we do, nor believe the same things we do.

I agree it's not racist to proclaim difference, that's just clouding the issue. But I'm going to hold my position that western culture is superior to that of Afghanistan at the moment. I'll no doubt join you in the "racist" sin bin shortly.

So, what you are really saying is if I believe in the universality of human rights according to Judeo-Christian Western culture. Nice idea, but I've seen enough of the world to know that universality doesn't exist.

It can, even if we have to pound it into the bastards

We went in to Afghanistan to remove the Taliban from power, and as a starting point to combatting terrorism. As far as Afghanistan is concerned, I don't see that our military personnel are dying for any "feudal bastards." They're waging a war against the Taliban.

And they're propping up a shittty regime that's not much better than the Taliban. I'm not ignorant of the reality of international politics, it's a dirty, dirty business but someone has to get in and jump around in the shit but the op has been fucked up by incompetent politicians.

Anyway, I'm still stubbornly declaring that western values are superior:

Exhibit P1 - http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html - that lot is right out of western values, those feudal bastards in Afghanistan should read it.

 

[rayboyusmc]

The problem is/was that installing a western style democracy into the middle east is exactly what the NeoCon buttwipes have been pushing.

I agree. I don't think it will work. I also agree that we can't judge non western cultures using western standards. That has got a lot of people killed.

Our enemy is the Taliban. Are you proposing that we interfere in a sovereign nation's business because YOU don't like how they do things?

Well, let's look at Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Venuzuela and where else have we tried to interfere and set up our way of rule because we don't like the way they do things. It wouldn't be the first time.

If all we want to do is kill the taliban and leave, then just fukking do it and quit the crap about making them a democracy.

 

[rayboyusmc]

They took their eye off their balls and invaded Iraq. Now look at the fine kettle of fishshit we are in. Too many civilian no nothings overruling the military commanders. Too many tinhorn Bushit rocking chair warriors ruining the wars.

It was malice in wonderland at the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Thursday as Bush Administration envoys insisted things are getting better in Afghanistan, while angry lawmakers from both parties cited facts and figures showing just the opposite. Even the senior Republican on the panel, Senator Richard Lugar, found the Administration's claims wanting. "I'm not sure that we have a plan for Afghanistan," he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20080201/wl_time/istheusfailinginafghanistan

 

[DeadCanDance]

Our enemy is the Taliban. Are you proposing that we interfere in a sovereign nation's business because YOU don't like how they do things?

I don't recall ever hearing anyone claim the Afghanistan government was a model of Western democracy.

Too bad you don't hold yourself to the same standards you try to hold those you disagree with to.

I think we can condemn egregious fundamentalist behaviour like this. I never suggested forcing them to change. It was actually you and your neocon buddies who suggested we invade muslim nations to force them to change.

The second point, is to ask why we are investing oceans of blood and treasure to defend a barbaric government. I initially supported the invasion of afghanistan, but now I'm thinking we should have tried a different tactic to capture or kill al qaeda. Covert ops, surgical strikes, intelligence gathering, infilitration, etc.

 

[rayboyusmc]

Covert ops, surgical strikes, intelligence gathering, infilitration, etc.

That is the only way we will beat terrorists. But there isn't the money in this approach for the Haliburtons, Blackwaters, Calyles and other war profiteers.

Kill from within not on the conventional battlefield. It's called guerrilla counter insurgency operations.

 

[Diuretic]

Just harking back to my claims about the superiority of western culture. I came across a really interesting discussion today, it's available as an mp3 and/or text.

I found it informative (next episode is 9 February).

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/philosopherszone/stories/2008/2148679.htm#transcript

In the twenty-first century, science doesn't just explain the world: it dominates the world. Religion, art, human relationships, history - we expect them all to be explained in scientific terms. How did science acquire this dominance over our way of thinking? Today, in the first episode of a two-part special, we examine the rise of science in the western mind.

 

[Gunny]

I think we can condemn egregious fundamentalist behaviour like this. I never suggested forcing them to change. It was actually you and your neocon buddies who suggested we invade muslim nations to force them to change.

The second point, is to ask why we are investing oceans of blood and treasure to defend a barbaric government. I initially supported the invasion of afghanistan, but now I'm thinking we should have tried a different tactic to capture or kill al qaeda. Covert ops, surgical strikes, intelligence gathering, infilitration, etc.

Do you EVER not talk out your ass? I have no "neocon" buddies, and I most certainly have not advocated invading nations to force people to change. We've had discussions at length on this, so I can only conclude you are either stupid as a stick, or a political hack with nothing but rhetoric to spew. You can choose which.

You would be the FIRST on here bitching about covert ops, and the merciless tactics used to carry them out.

 

[Gunny]

That is the only way we will beat terrorists. But there isn't the money in this approach for the Haliburtons, Blackwaters, Calyles and other war profiteers.

Kill from within not on the conventional battlefield. It's called guerrilla counter insurgency operations.

Sure. By murdering them. Then, it will depend on what party the President is from whether or not it's great tactics or a moral outrage, right?

 

[Taomon]

Our enemy is the Taliban. Are you proposing that we interfere in a sovereign nation's business because YOU don't like how they do things?

Isn't that what Bush does?

 

[Taomon]

I don't know that I actually believe in the universality of human rights. One of the biggest flaws I have seen over the years is our judging other cultures by Western standards.

One of the most absurd arguments made since we have become re-involved in the Middle East is the left demanding to know where the Western democracy is. To be fair, any Western-thinking idealist that thought they were going to install a Western democracy in the Arab world is just as loopy.

Arabs don't think like us. I got called a racist last time I said that, which is bullshit. Their culture is different, period. They don't live as we do, nor believe the same things we do.

So, what you are really saying is if I believe in the universality of human rights according to Judeo-Christian Western culture. Nice idea, but I've seen enough of the world to know that universality doesn't exist.

We went in to Afghanistan to remove the Taliban from power, and as a starting point to combatting terrorism. As far as Afghanistan is concerned, I don't see that our military personnel are dying for any "feudal bastards." They're waging a war against the Taliban.

Please explain this to Bush.

 

[Gunny]

Isn't that what Bush does?

Same thing Clinton and LBJ did, and the same thing the next Democrat President will do.

You have a point?

 

[Gunny]

Please explain this to Bush.

Not my job. But do yourself a favor and go research my stance on the invasion of Iraq and especially the strategy or lack thereof employed during the subsequent occupation PRIOR TO running your mouth as a few other braindead's around here seem to like to do.