CDZ Abortion Perspective

[Leo123]

All I see is a conflict of interest on Planned Parenthoods part and a huge possibility for abuse and corruption.

If the abortion clinic has parts to sell then the abortion clinic should be selling them not the agency that most likely referred a client to them.

So I stand on my response of defunding all and letting them rely on charitable donations.

*****SMILE*****

Yes, abortion should not be 'pushed' by any entity. However, it is, and was, a way to limit minority procreation....and it's working along with promoting gender confusion.......the liberal leftists have really done a good job of limiting population. We are no longer a replacement numbers.

 

[Disir]

The controversy rages. Both sides at each others throats over an issue that neither will give ground on. One side says that it's murder while the other side says that others no right to tell them what to do with their body. In perspective both are have a point for mankind has many laws both religious and secular. Which in turn can lead to many questions on the subject. One such question that I've never seen asked is the following...


If these pro-abortion people don't want others telling them 'what to do with their body' what gives them the right to demand government funding to support an institution/agency (Planned Parenthood) to tell them what to do with their bodies?

*****SMILE*****





NOTE: This is the Clean Debate Zone and it would be greatly appreciated if mod involvement for flaming and other offences not be required for this thread.

Both men and women use Planned Parenthood. The government doesn't "fund abortions".

Men's Medical Health Services | Planned Parenthood

Are you sure? You tell me, how many abortions would PP be doing if they got no gov't funding at all, compared to how many they do now? You can play with the words all you want, but if they weren't getting a heckuva lot of our tax dollars then they wouldn't be doing nearly as many abortions. If you pay for your own, fine. Don't like it, but fine. If you can get a pro-choice group to pay for it, fine. Don't like it, but fine.

I'm not playing with words. Planned Parenthood has other services that serve low income people. Fact.
Abortions will continue whether this organization is around or not. What you win is to drive it underground. It will continue. Are you absolutely certain that this is what you want? Is this a case of out of sight out of mind? I'm trying to think of a time where that has been a beneficial move.

There are quite a few organizations that offer other services to low income people, far outnumbering PP. Consider:

Abortion-rights supporters insist that millions of women rely on Planned Parenthood as their primary source of health care and will be left without any resources if the group is defunded. In reality, there are a variety of options that are better for women than Planned Parenthood.

According to the group’s latest annual report, it has “more than 600 health centers” across the nation. Meanwhile, there are more than 13,500 federally qualified health-care centers (FQHCs) and rural health clinics in the United States, outnumbering Planned Parenthood locations 20 to 1.

Data from the Lozier Institute reveal that in California, for instance, there are 114 Planned Parenthood facilities, the most of any state by far. But that is only a small fraction of the nearly 1,700 health centers in the state. New York has 625 FQHCs, but just 58 Planned Parenthood locations. Some states, such as West Virginia, South Dakota, and Mississippi, have only one Planned Parenthood clinic each, but hundreds of FQHCs.

Unlike Planned Parenthood locations, these centers provide comprehensive primary and preventive care — including mental-health and substance-abuse treatment — regardless of an individual’s health-insurance status. GOP proposals to remove Planned Parenthood funding are not simply efforts to strip funding from abortion providers; they propose to redirect the entirety of that funding to FQHCs and other centers that provide comprehensive care without performing abortions.

Defunding Planned Parenthood: Four Arguments GOP Should Use | National Review


I doubt that abortions will go underground just because the gov't doesn't finance them. Those days were when abortion was illegal, and I wouldn't go back to that. I just don't think that taxpayers ought to be paying for it. Why? Cuz it's a choice, outside of rape and/or incest and there are contraceptives and morning after pills that are far less expensive and dangerous. I see no reason why the rest of us should pay for someone's bad decision.

That is exactly how I feel about women/men who collect Social Security via their spouses and have never been employed or have not earned enough tax credits to qualify.

They already have gone underground.
Texas Women Are Already Getting 'Flea Market Abortions'

Texas Threat to Abortion Clinics Dodged at Flea Markets

 

[Damaged Eagle]

It matters not by what you stand, unlike CMP, Planned Parenthood was exonerated of all fake claims of abuse and corruption.

I'm quite aware of that.

That way the Sons Of Mary can line their pockets selling baby parts as they take their cut in their dirty dealings.

*****SMILE*****

You're wrong yet again. No one at Planned Parenthood lines their pockets over these sales. There are very strict guidelines which dictate they can't profit from the sales. This too was investigated and cleared by at least 11 independent states.

I don't believe you and...

*****SMILE*****

 

[Faun]

It matters not by what you stand, unlike CMP, Planned Parenthood was exonerated of all fake claims of abuse and corruption.

I'm quite aware of that.

That way the Sons Of Mary can line their pockets selling baby parts as they take their cut in their dirty dealings.

*****SMILE*****

You're wrong yet again. No one at Planned Parenthood lines their pockets over these sales. There are very strict guidelines which dictate they can't profit from the sales. This too was investigated and cleared by at least 11 independent states.

I don't believe you and...

*****SMILE****

Who cares what you b'lieve? You're still wrong. Here's information on each of 12 independent state investigations, none of which found PP did anything wrong...


Despite all the worry, state investigations have yet to find any evidence that Planned Parenthood was selling or profiting off fetal tissue. Twelve states have completed investigations into Planned Parenthood following the videos' release, according to the organization.

more...

 

[Damaged Eagle]

It matters not by what you stand, unlike CMP, Planned Parenthood was exonerated of all fake claims of abuse and corruption.

I'm quite aware of that.

That way the Sons Of Mary can line their pockets selling baby parts as they take their cut in their dirty dealings.

*****SMILE*****

You're wrong yet again. No one at Planned Parenthood lines their pockets over these sales. There are very strict guidelines which dictate they can't profit from the sales. This too was investigated and cleared by at least 11 independent states.

I don't believe you and...

*****SMILE****

Who cares what you b'lieve? You're still wrong. Here's information on each of 12 independent state investigations, none of which found PP did anything wrong...


Despite all the worry, state investigations have yet to find any evidence that Planned Parenthood was selling or profiting off fetal tissue. Twelve states have completed investigations into Planned Parenthood following the videos' release, according to the organization.

more...

Planned Parenthood selling baby parts is a conflict of interest.

*****SMILE*****

 

[Markle]

Both men and women use Planned Parenthood. The government doesn't "fund abortions".

Men's Medical Health Services | Planned Parenthood

And yet we have people who represent Planned Parenthood selling aborted baby parts.

*****SMILE*****

"And yet we have people who represent Planned Parenthood selling aborted baby parts."

Investigated by about 11 different states and not one found any wrongdoing on Planned Parenthood's part. Can't say the same for the unscrupulous folks who tried to set them up though.

If selling body parts is not wrong, what is wrong?

Planned Parenthood Admits in Court That It Sold Body Parts From Aborted Babies
NATIONAL MICAIAH BILGER SEP 4, 2019 | 11:18AM WASHINGTON, DC

The preliminary hearing for undercover journalist David Daleiden began Tuesday in California with Planned Parenthood admitting that it harvested aborted babies’ body parts and supplied them to human tissue procurement companies, according to the Center for Medical Progress.

Planned Parenthood Admits in Court That It Sold Body Parts From Aborted Babies

 

[Markle]

That is exactly how I feel about women/men who collect Social Security via their spouses and have never been employed or have not earned enough tax credits to qualify.

I'm really old so speaking of my grandparents, born before the LAST century, is going back in time. All my grandparents were immigrants, in the late 1800s from Norway and Denmark. On my Mother's side, her father came here with a 4th-grade education. There was no Social Security and he departed our life after 50 years of marriage. He had acquired several apartment buildings that provided her with a good income for the rest of her life on the North Side of Chicago.

When he passed away in his late 70s, she qualified for his benefits in spite of the fact that she had never worked outside the home or learned to drive for that matter. That (driving) was a man's work. She thought it was crazy that she got a check from the government every month until she passed at 102. She thought it was crazy BUT, that was HER money and she decided how to spend HER money!

 

[Faun]

Both men and women use Planned Parenthood. The government doesn't "fund abortions".

Men's Medical Health Services | Planned Parenthood

And yet we have people who represent Planned Parenthood selling aborted baby parts.

*****SMILE*****

"And yet we have people who represent Planned Parenthood selling aborted baby parts."

Investigated by about 11 different states and not one found any wrongdoing on Planned Parenthood's part. Can't say the same for the unscrupulous folks who tried to set them up though.

If selling body parts is not wrong, what is wrong?

Planned Parenthood Admits in Court That It Sold Body Parts From Aborted Babies
NATIONAL MICAIAH BILGER SEP 4, 2019 | 11:18AM WASHINGTON, DC

The preliminary hearing for undercover journalist David Daleiden began Tuesday in California with Planned Parenthood admitting that it harvested aborted babies’ body parts and supplied them to human tissue procurement companies, according to the Center for Medical Progress.

Planned Parenthood Admits in Court That It Sold Body Parts From Aborted Babies

You'd prefer they were just thrown out instead of being donated to medical science for research?

 

[playtime]

Both men and women use Planned Parenthood. The government doesn't "fund abortions".

Men's Medical Health Services | Planned Parenthood

And yet we have people who represent Planned Parenthood selling aborted baby parts.

*****SMILE*****

"And yet we have people who represent Planned Parenthood selling aborted baby parts."

Investigated by about 11 different states and not one found any wrongdoing on Planned Parenthood's part. Can't say the same for the unscrupulous folks who tried to set them up though.

If selling body parts is not wrong, what is wrong?

Planned Parenthood Admits in Court That It Sold Body Parts From Aborted Babies
NATIONAL MICAIAH BILGER SEP 4, 2019 | 11:18AM WASHINGTON, DC

The preliminary hearing for undercover journalist David Daleiden began Tuesday in California with Planned Parenthood admitting that it harvested aborted babies’ body parts and supplied them to human tissue procurement companies, according to the Center for Medical Progress.

Planned Parenthood Admits in Court That It Sold Body Parts From Aborted Babies

You'd prefer they were just thrown out instead of being donated to medical science for research?

ben carson did that very thing.

 

[Markle]

Both men and women use Planned Parenthood. The government doesn't "fund abortions".

Men's Medical Health Services | Planned Parenthood

And yet we have people who represent Planned Parenthood selling aborted baby parts.

*****SMILE*****

"And yet we have people who represent Planned Parenthood selling aborted baby parts."

Investigated by about 11 different states and not one found any wrongdoing on Planned Parenthood's part. Can't say the same for the unscrupulous folks who tried to set them up though.

If selling body parts is not wrong, what is wrong?

Planned Parenthood Admits in Court That It Sold Body Parts From Aborted Babies
NATIONAL MICAIAH BILGER SEP 4, 2019 | 11:18AM WASHINGTON, DC

The preliminary hearing for undercover journalist David Daleiden began Tuesday in California with Planned Parenthood admitting that it harvested aborted babies’ body parts and supplied them to human tissue procurement companies, according to the Center for Medical Progress.

Planned Parenthood Admits in Court That It Sold Body Parts From Aborted Babies

You'd prefer they were just thrown out instead of being donated to medical science for research?

As you know, they are not DONATED, they are SOLD.

 

[Faun]

Both men and women use Planned Parenthood. The government doesn't "fund abortions".

Men's Medical Health Services | Planned Parenthood

And yet we have people who represent Planned Parenthood selling aborted baby parts.

*****SMILE*****

"And yet we have people who represent Planned Parenthood selling aborted baby parts."

Investigated by about 11 different states and not one found any wrongdoing on Planned Parenthood's part. Can't say the same for the unscrupulous folks who tried to set them up though.

If selling body parts is not wrong, what is wrong?

Planned Parenthood Admits in Court That It Sold Body Parts From Aborted Babies
NATIONAL MICAIAH BILGER SEP 4, 2019 | 11:18AM WASHINGTON, DC

The preliminary hearing for undercover journalist David Daleiden began Tuesday in California with Planned Parenthood admitting that it harvested aborted babies’ body parts and supplied them to human tissue procurement companies, according to the Center for Medical Progress.

Planned Parenthood Admits in Court That It Sold Body Parts From Aborted Babies

You'd prefer they were just thrown out instead of being donated to medical science for research?

As you know, they are not DONATED, they are SOLD.

They are not sold for profit. They are donated but they are allowed by law to charge a nominal fee to cover their costs for supplying samples.

Your deflection aside, you prefer they're just thrown out rather than be donated to medical research?

 

[Markle]

And yet we have people who represent Planned Parenthood selling aborted baby parts.

*****SMILE*****

"And yet we have people who represent Planned Parenthood selling aborted baby parts."

Investigated by about 11 different states and not one found any wrongdoing on Planned Parenthood's part. Can't say the same for the unscrupulous folks who tried to set them up though.

If selling body parts is not wrong, what is wrong?

Planned Parenthood Admits in Court That It Sold Body Parts From Aborted Babies
NATIONAL MICAIAH BILGER SEP 4, 2019 | 11:18AM WASHINGTON, DC

The preliminary hearing for undercover journalist David Daleiden began Tuesday in California with Planned Parenthood admitting that it harvested aborted babies’ body parts and supplied them to human tissue procurement companies, according to the Center for Medical Progress.

Planned Parenthood Admits in Court That It Sold Body Parts From Aborted Babies

You'd prefer they were just thrown out instead of being donated to medical science for research?

As you know, they are not DONATED, they are SOLD.

They are not sold for profit. They are donated but they are allowed by law to charge a nominal fee to cover their costs for supplying samples.

Your deflection aside, you prefer they're just thrown out rather than be donated to medical research?

They are sold for profit. If you want to get down n the weeds with semantics, go for it!

 

[Faun]

"And yet we have people who represent Planned Parenthood selling aborted baby parts."

Investigated by about 11 different states and not one found any wrongdoing on Planned Parenthood's part. Can't say the same for the unscrupulous folks who tried to set them up though.

If selling body parts is not wrong, what is wrong?

Planned Parenthood Admits in Court That It Sold Body Parts From Aborted Babies
NATIONAL MICAIAH BILGER SEP 4, 2019 | 11:18AM WASHINGTON, DC

The preliminary hearing for undercover journalist David Daleiden began Tuesday in California with Planned Parenthood admitting that it harvested aborted babies’ body parts and supplied them to human tissue procurement companies, according to the Center for Medical Progress.

Planned Parenthood Admits in Court That It Sold Body Parts From Aborted Babies

You'd prefer they were just thrown out instead of being donated to medical science for research?

As you know, they are not DONATED, they are SOLD.

They are not sold for profit. They are donated but they are allowed by law to charge a nominal fee to cover their costs for supplying samples.

Your deflection aside, you prefer they're just thrown out rather than be donated to medical research?

They are sold for profit. If you want to get down n the weeds with semantics, go for it!

Ok, I'm done with you. You have proven to be too ignorant on this subject to waste any more valuable time. Selling baby parts for profit is illegal. Had PP actually done that, they'd have been consumed in a shitstorm of criminal and civil suits. Instead, after 12 different states investigated the matter, none of them found PP sold any samples for profit. The only ones to face legal consequences were members of the made up CMP.

The only logical conclusion that can be reached by your refusal to answer is that you prefer the baby parts be thrown out in the trash rather than being donated, as agreed to by the women who terminated their pregnancies.

Ciao.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Both men and women use Planned Parenthood. The government doesn't "fund abortions".

Men's Medical Health Services | Planned Parenthood

And yet we have people who represent Planned Parenthood selling aborted baby parts.

*****SMILE*****

"And yet we have people who represent Planned Parenthood selling aborted baby parts."

Investigated by about 11 different states and not one found any wrongdoing on Planned Parenthood's part. Can't say the same for the unscrupulous folks who tried to set them up though.

If selling body parts is not wrong, what is wrong?

Planned Parenthood Admits in Court That It Sold Body Parts From Aborted Babies
NATIONAL MICAIAH BILGER SEP 4, 2019 | 11:18AM WASHINGTON, DC

The preliminary hearing for undercover journalist David Daleiden began Tuesday in California with Planned Parenthood admitting that it harvested aborted babies’ body parts and supplied them to human tissue procurement companies, according to the Center for Medical Progress.

Planned Parenthood Admits in Court That It Sold Body Parts From Aborted Babies

You'd prefer they were just thrown out instead of being donated to medical science for research?

So now you're admitting that Planned Parenthood aborts babies?

*****SMILE*****

 

[Markle]

Ok, I'm done with you. You have proven to be too ignorant on this subject to waste any more valuable time. Selling baby parts for profit is illegal. Had PP actually done that, they'd have been consumed in a shitstorm of criminal and civil suits. Instead, after 12 different states investigated the matter, none of them found PP sold any samples for profit. The only ones to face legal consequences were members of the made up CMP.

The only logical conclusion that can be reached by your refusal to answer is that you prefer the baby parts be thrown out in the trash rather than being donated, as agreed to by the women who terminated their pregnancies.

Ciao.

In Court Hearing, Planned Parenthood Employee Admits To Trafficking In Baby Body Parts
By Lauren Fink
SEPTEMBER 5, 2019

The nine-day hearing is the first time multiple Planned Parenthood leaders have testified in court since undercover videos surfaced of them harvesting aborted baby body parts.

Day one of the preliminary hearing for pro-life activist David Daleiden kicked off Tuesday morning at the San Francisco Superior Court with testimony from an abortion technician, a third-trimester abortionist, and a vice president of the National Abortion Federation, who testified she doesn’t know what a human tissue procurement company is or does.

NAF Vice President of External Affairs Melissa Fowler also testified she recognized StemExpress—a human tissue procurement lab exposed in Daleiden’s undercover videos that is now under federal investigation—as a repeat vendor of her for-profit organization. NAF is a third-party abortion trade group.

Planned Parenthood Employee Admits To Trafficking In Baby Body Parts

 

[Votto]

The controversy rages. Both sides at each others throats over an issue that neither will give ground on. One side says that it's murder while the other side says that others no right to tell them what to do with their body. In perspective both are have a point for mankind has many laws both religious and secular. Which in turn can lead to many questions on the subject. One such question that I've never seen asked is the following...


If these pro-abortion people don't want others telling them 'what to do with their body' what gives them the right to demand government funding to support an institution/agency (Planned Parenthood) to tell them what to do with their bodies?

*****SMILE*****





NOTE: This is the Clean Debate Zone and it would be greatly appreciated if mod involvement for flaming and other offences not be required for this thread.

Although vehemently against abortion on demand, these are the reasons why it is here to stay:

1. The abortion industry is a billion dollar industry in the US. As a lobby, they are hard to outspend. The love of money truly is the root of all evil.

Two problems with this argument. First as a lobby- plenty of 'industries' outspend 'the abortion industry'. Secondly, this implies that women are choosing abortions because of some kind of lobbying effort by abortion providers. You might have a point if this was an industry with actual commercial advertising promoting the product- but women choose abortion for their own reasons- at the most- lobbying allows for their to be safe and legal abortion service within a community- as opposed to unsafe and illegal.


2. Most women who have abortions do so because of financial concerns even though every time someone tries to argue that it should be legal uses examples of incest or some such nonsense.

Most women do tend to have abortions for financial concerns. Addressing those financial concerns would lower the demand for abortion.

And addressing your other point- I do tend to point out that the anti-abortion side now openly wants to prevent the victims of rape and incest from any form of birth control, even the morning after pill- because- even though this represents a very small portion of the women who chose abortions- their stories are very real- and the anti-abortion activists do want to tell them that they have to give birth to their rapist child- i.e. what you call 'nonsense'

And speaking of nonsense- the anti-abortion side currently wants to mostly talk about abortion late third trimester abortions- even though those type of abortions are extremely rare- and in most of those cases the women having the abortions really don't want to, but are facing some sort of health tragedy.

3. The powers that be are focused on population control, which is why the US government funds or supports birth control and abortion all around the globe. Such concerns as global warming and the depletion of natural resources is why they view the snuffing out of human life as a good thing.

The U.S. government does fund birth control around the world- because one of the leading causes of poverty for women around the world is having too many children. The U.S. does not fund any abortion services outside the United States. Not sure why you equate birth control with snuffing out human life. And do you think that contraception is a bad thing? I don't. One of the best ways to improve the health of women in any country is to allow them to control their own fertility so that they can limit the number of children to the number that their family can afford.

4. Genocide is human nature. Just do a little history search and you will see genocide conducted all over the globe at pretty much any time in history. We see to have a thirst for killing and usually it is over power and money issues, as is abortion.

No one now is forcing any women in the U.S. to have abortions. Women choosing abortions is not 'genocide'- it is women making the choices that governments and men have claimed for years that they should be making for women, and that women shouldn't be trusted to make those decisions themselves.

You can frame the question anyway you choose from any perspective that you choose, but at the end of the day the question really is only, is the unborn infant human?

There are a myriad of different answers to this, some say not till so many weeks, some say not till they are viable in the womb, and then others say not till they exit the womb.

What say you?

I say I don't really know.
Getting past the extremist rhetoric on both sides, I don't believe that a newly implanted embryo is an infant.
But I also believe that a viable fetus probably is.

I also think that the woman who has to go through pregnancy and childbirth is the best person to decide the issue- not me or you- for her.

What about you?

So you don't know when a human becomes a human?

Sounds to me like the extremist position is then to allow the killing of these unborn infants since you have no idea if it's murder, that is, if you care.

 

[sartre play]

ENDLESS big lie's little lies, half truths woman verses forced birth, who is more important, men talking about how to deal with something they will never have to deal with. fair unfair, bottom line your against abortion? don't have one.

 

[Coyote]

"And yet we have people who represent Planned Parenthood selling aborted baby parts."

Investigated by about 11 different states and not one found any wrongdoing on Planned Parenthood's part. Can't say the same for the unscrupulous folks who tried to set them up though.

If selling body parts is not wrong, what is wrong?

Planned Parenthood Admits in Court That It Sold Body Parts From Aborted Babies
NATIONAL MICAIAH BILGER SEP 4, 2019 | 11:18AM WASHINGTON, DC

The preliminary hearing for undercover journalist David Daleiden began Tuesday in California with Planned Parenthood admitting that it harvested aborted babies’ body parts and supplied them to human tissue procurement companies, according to the Center for Medical Progress.

Planned Parenthood Admits in Court That It Sold Body Parts From Aborted Babies

You'd prefer they were just thrown out instead of being donated to medical science for research?

As you know, they are not DONATED, they are SOLD.

They are not sold for profit. They are donated but they are allowed by law to charge a nominal fee to cover their costs for supplying samples.

Your deflection aside, you prefer they're just thrown out rather than be donated to medical research?

They are sold for profit. If you want to get down n the weeds with semantics, go for it!

You need to prove that.

 

[Markle]

If selling body parts is not wrong, what is wrong?

Planned Parenthood Admits in Court That It Sold Body Parts From Aborted Babies
NATIONAL MICAIAH BILGER SEP 4, 2019 | 11:18AM WASHINGTON, DC

The preliminary hearing for undercover journalist David Daleiden began Tuesday in California with Planned Parenthood admitting that it harvested aborted babies’ body parts and supplied them to human tissue procurement companies, according to the Center for Medical Progress.

Planned Parenthood Admits in Court That It Sold Body Parts From Aborted Babies

You'd prefer they were just thrown out instead of being donated to medical science for research?

As you know, they are not DONATED, they are SOLD.

They are not sold for profit. They are donated but they are allowed by law to charge a nominal fee to cover their costs for supplying samples.

Your deflection aside, you prefer they're just thrown out rather than be donated to medical research?

They are sold for profit. If you want to get down n the weeds with semantics, go for it!

You need to prove that.

As you saw, I did, thank you!

 

[Coyote]

You'd prefer they were just thrown out instead of being donated to medical science for research?

As you know, they are not DONATED, they are SOLD.

They are not sold for profit. They are donated but they are allowed by law to charge a nominal fee to cover their costs for supplying samples.

Your deflection aside, you prefer they're just thrown out rather than be donated to medical research?

They are sold for profit. If you want to get down n the weeds with semantics, go for it!

You need to prove that.

As you saw, I did, thank you!

No, you didn't. The law allows them to charge for the cost involved in samples and shipping. Where is the profit?