A message about the reality of life after death

[vanityofvanitys]

Dr. George Rodonaia held an M.D. and a Ph.D. in neuropathology in the Soviet Union. Was run over on the street by a KGB agent in 1976 and pronounced dead. He lie in a morgue for more three days until the knife opening him up during an autopsy awakened him. Dr. Rodonaia had much to say to the world before he passed away in 2004. At the end of this story is a small anecdote that virtually proves what he experienced had to be true.

This account appears to be very well documented and attested to. To suggest it did not happen demands greater veracity than just general skepticism in the line of “yes, we’ve heard it all before.” Those who are not Christian may derive greater hope from this man’s account than some of those who are devout Christians. It does not bother me at all that this man who was an avowed atheist and surely witnessed God’s glory does not ascribe to any religion’s concise “god” – per se – including the Christian one, because his experiences are so much more universal affecting all creatures and manners of life. Yes, he eventually became a Methodist minister, but his message is about the very real presence of another world, one totally inhabited by the glory of God. For him, that realization and the realization that all God asks of us is to love is profoundly illustrated in this man’s account.

NOTE: I cannot post the website of this account below because I have not made 15 regular posts on this message board in recent memory. I guess?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Reverend George Rodonaia (died October 12, 2004) underwent one of the most extended cases of a near-death experience ever recorded. Pronounced dead immediately after he was hit by a car in 1976, he was left for three days in the morgue. He did not "return to life" until a doctor began to make an incision in his abdomen as part of an autopsy procedure. Prior to his NDE he worked as a neuropathologist. He was also an avowed atheist. Yet after the experience, he devoted himself exclusively to the study of spirituality, taking a second doctorate in the psychology of religion. He then became an ordained priest in the Eastern Orthodox Church. He served as a pastor at St. Paul United Methodist Church in Baytown, Texas. Reverend Rodonaia is one of the NDE experiencers profiled on this page who was dead for days during his NDE.


Rev. George Rodonaia held an M.D. and a Ph.D. in neuropathology, and a Ph.D. in the psychology of religion. He delivered a keynote address to the United Nations on the "Emerging Global Spirituality." Before emigrating to the United States from the Soviet Union in 1989, he worked as a research psychiatrist at the University of Moscow. The following is a Dr. Rodonaia's experience in his own words from Phillip Berman's excellent book, The Journey Home.

________________________________________

"The first thing I remember about my NDE is that I discovered myself in a realm of total darkness. I had no physical pain, I was still somehow aware of my existence as George, and all about me there was darkness, utter and complete darkness - the greatest darkness ever, darker than any dark, blacker than any black. This was what surrounded me and pressed upon me. I was horrified. I wasn't prepared for this at all. I was shocked to find that I still existed, but I didn't know where I was. The one thought that kept rolling through my mind was, "How can I be when I'm not?" That is what troubled me.

"Slowly I got a grip on myself and began to think about what had happened, what was going on. But nothing refreshing or relaxing came to me. Why am I in this darkness? What am I to do? Then I remembered Descartes' famous line: "I think, therefore I am." And that took a huge burden off me, for it was then I knew for certain I was still alive, although obviously in a very different dimension. Then I thought, If I am, why shouldn't I be positive? That is what came to me. I am George and I'm in darkness, but I know I am. I am what I am. I must not be negative.

"Then I thought, How can I define what is positive in darkness? Well, positive is light. Then, suddenly, I was in light; bright white, shiny and strong; a very bright light. I was like the flash of a camera, but not flickering - that bright. Constant brightness. At first I found the brilliance of the light painful, I couldn't look directly at it. But little by little I began to relax. I began to feel warm, comforted, and everything suddenly seemed fine.

"The next thing that happened was that I saw all these molecules flying around, atoms, protons, neutrons, just flying everywhere. On the one hand, it was totally chaotic, yet what brought me such great joy was that this chaos also had its own symmetry. This symmetry was beautiful and unified and whole, and it flooded me with tremendous joy. I saw the universal form of life and nature laid out before my eyes. It was at this point that any concern I had for my body just slipped away, because it was clear to me that I didn't need it anymore, that it was actually a limitation.

"Everything in this experience merged together, so it is difficult for me to put an exact sequence to events. Time as I had known it came to a halt; past, present, and future were somehow fused together for me in the timeless unity of life.

"At some point I underwent what has been called the life-review process, for I saw my life from beginning to end all at once. I participated in the real life dramas of my life, almost like a holographic image of my life going on before me - no sense of past, present, or future, just now and the reality of my life. It wasn't as though it started with birth and ran along to my life at the University of Moscow. It all appeared at once. There I was. This was my life. I didn't experience any sense of guilt or remorse for things I'd done. I didn't feel one way or another about my failures, faults, or achievements. All I felt was my life for what it is. And I was content with that. I accepted my life for what it is.

"During this time the light just radiated a sense of peace and joy to me. It was very positive. I was so happy to be in the light. And I understood what the light meant. I learned that all the physical rules for human life were nothing when compared to this unitive reality. I also came to see that a black hole is only another part of that infinity which is light.

"I came to see that reality is everywhere. That it is not simply the earthly life but the infinite life. Everything is not only connected together, everything is also one. So I felt a wholeness with the light, a sense that all is right with me and the universe.

"I could be anywhere instantly, really there. I tried to communicate with the people I saw. Some sensed my presence, but no one did anything about it. I felt it necessary to learn about the Bible and philosophy. You want, you receive. Think and it comes to you. So I participated, I went back and lived in the minds of Jesus and his disciples. I heard their conversations, experienced eating, passing wine, smells, tastes - yet I had no body. I was pure consciousness. If I didn't understand what was happening, an explanation would come. But no teacher spoke. I explored the Roman Empire, Babylon, the times of Noah and Abraham. Any era you can name, I went there.

"So there I was, flooded with all these good things and this wonderful experience, when someone begins to cut into my stomach. Can you imagine? What had happened was that I was taken to the morgue. I was pronounced dead and left there for three days. An investigation into the cause of my death was set up, so they sent someone out to do an autopsy on me. As they began to cut into my stomach, I felt as though some great power took hold of my neck and pushed me down. And it was so powerful that I opened my eyes and had this huge sense of pain. My body was cold and I began to shiver. They immediately stopped the autopsy and took me to the hospital, where I remained for the following nine months, most of which I spent under a respirator.

"Slowly I regained my health. But I would never be the same again, because all I wanted to do for the rest of my life was study wisdom. This new interest led me to attend the University of Georgia, where I took my second Ph.D., in the psychology of religion. Then I became a priest in the Eastern Orthodox Church. Eventually, in 1989, we came to America, and I am now working as an associate pastor at the First United Methodist Church in Nederland, Texas.

"Many people have asked me what I believe in, how my NDE changed my life. All I can say is that I now believe in the God of the universe. Unlike many other people, however, I have never called God the light, because God is beyond our comprehension. God, I believe, is even more than the light, because God is also darkness. God is everything that exists, everything - and that is beyond our ability to comprehend at all. So I don't believe in the God of the Jews, or the Christians, or the Hindus, or in any one religion's idea of what God is or is not. It is all the same God, and that God showed me that the universe in which we live is a beautiful and marvelous mystery that is connected together forever and for always.

"Anyone who has had such an experience of God, who has felt such a profound sense of connection with reality, knows that there is only one truly significant work to do in life, and that is love; to love nature, to love people, to love animals, to love creation itself, just because it is. To serve God's creation with a warm and loving hand of generosity and compassion - that is the only meaningful existence.

"Many people turn to those who have had NDEs because they sense we have the answers. But I know this is not true, at least not entirely. None of us will fully fathom the great truths of life until we finally unite with eternity at death. But occasionally we get glimpses of the answer here on Earth, and that alone is enough for me. I love to ask questions and to seek answers, but I know in the end I must live the questions and the answers. But that is okay, isn't it? So long as we love, love with all our heart and passion, it doesn't matter, does it? Perhaps the best way for me to convey what I am trying to say is to share with you something the poet Rilke once wrote in a letter to a friend. I saw this letter, the original handwritten letter, in the library at Dresden University in Germany. (He quotes from memory, as follows
"Be patient with all that is unresolved in your heart. And try to love the questions themselves. Do not seek for the answers that cannot be given. For you wouldn't be able to live with them. And the point is to live everything, live the questions now, and perhaps without knowing it, you will live along some day into the answers."
"I place my faith in that. Live the questions, and the universe will open up its eyes to you."
Return to Top

2. George Rodonaia's Verified Out-of-Body Perception of an Injured Infant

More information about George's NDE account is described in Dr. Melvin Morse and Paul Perry's book entitled Transformed by the Light. Dr. Morse refers to George by his Russian name "Yuri". The following is an excerpt of Transformed by the Light which describes George's observation of an infant while George is out of his body.

"[During Yuri's NDE, he] could go visit his family. He saw his grieving wife and their two sons, both too small to understand that their father had been killed.

"Then he visited his next-door neighbor. They had a new child, born a couple of days before Yuri's "death." Yuri could tell that they were upset by what happened to him. But they were especially distressed by the fact that their child would not stop crying.
"No matter what they did he continued to cry. When he slept it was short and fitful and then he would awaken, crying again. They had taken him back to the doctors but they were stumped. All the usual things such as colic were ruled out and they sent them home hoping the baby would eventually settle down.

"While there in this disembodied state, Yuri discovered something:
"l could talk to the baby. It was amazing. I could not talk to the parents - my friends - but I could talk to the little boy who had just been born. I asked him what was wrong. No words were exchanged, but I asked him maybe through telepathy what was wrong. He told me that his arm hurt. And when he told me that, I was able to see that the bone was twisted and broken."
"The baby had a greenstick fracture, a break in the bone in his arm probably cause by having been twisted during childbirth. Now Yuri and the baby knew what was wrong, but neither had the ability to communicate the problem to the parents.

"Eventually the doctor from Moscow came to perform the autopsy on Yuri. When they moved his body from the cabinet to a gurney, his eyes flickered. The doctor became suspicious and examined his eyes. When they responded to light, he was immediately wheeled to emergency surgery and saved.

"Yuri told his family about being "dead." No one believed him until he began to provide details about what he saw during his travels out of body. Then they became less skeptical. His diagnosis on the baby next door did the trick. He told of visiting them that night and of their concern over their new child. He told them that he had talked to the baby and discovered that he had a greenstick fracture of his arm. The parents took the child to a doctor and he x-rayed the arm only to discover that Yuri's very long-distance diagnosis was right."

 

[theword]

Dr. George Rodonaia held an M.D. and a Ph.D. in neuropathology in the Soviet Union. Was run over on the street by a KGB agent in 1976 and pronounced dead. He lie in a morgue for more three days until the knife opening him up during an autopsy awakened him. Dr. Rodonaia had much to say to the world before he passed away in 2004. At the end of this story is a small anecdote that virtually proves what he experienced had to be true.

This account appears to be very well documented and attested to. To suggest it did not happen demands greater veracity than just general skepticism in the line of “yes, we’ve heard it all before.” Those who are not Christian may derive greater hope from this man’s account than some of those who are devout Christians. It does not bother me at all that this man who was an avowed atheist and surely witnessed God’s glory does not ascribe to any religion’s concise “god” – per se – including the Christian one, because his experiences are so much more universal affecting all creatures and manners of life. Yes, he eventually became a Methodist minister, but his message is about the very real presence of another world, one totally inhabited by the glory of God. For him, that realization and the realization that all God asks of us is to love is profoundly illustrated in this man’s account.

NOTE: I cannot post the website of this account below because I have not made 15 regular posts on this message board in recent memory. I guess?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Reverend George Rodonaia (died October 12, 2004) underwent one of the most extended cases of a near-death experience ever recorded. Pronounced dead immediately after he was hit by a car in 1976, he was left for three days in the morgue. He did not "return to life" until a doctor began to make an incision in his abdomen as part of an autopsy procedure. Prior to his NDE he worked as a neuropathologist. He was also an avowed atheist. Yet after the experience, he devoted himself exclusively to the study of spirituality, taking a second doctorate in the psychology of religion. He then became an ordained priest in the Eastern Orthodox Church. He served as a pastor at St. Paul United Methodist Church in Baytown, Texas. Reverend Rodonaia is one of the NDE experiencers profiled on this page who was dead for days during his NDE.


Rev. George Rodonaia held an M.D. and a Ph.D. in neuropathology, and a Ph.D. in the psychology of religion. He delivered a keynote address to the United Nations on the "Emerging Global Spirituality." Before emigrating to the United States from the Soviet Union in 1989, he worked as a research psychiatrist at the University of Moscow. The following is a Dr. Rodonaia's experience in his own words from Phillip Berman's excellent book, The Journey Home.

________________________________________

"The first thing I remember about my NDE is that I discovered myself in a realm of total darkness. I had no physical pain, I was still somehow aware of my existence as George, and all about me there was darkness, utter and complete darkness - the greatest darkness ever, darker than any dark, blacker than any black. This was what surrounded me and pressed upon me. I was horrified. I wasn't prepared for this at all. I was shocked to find that I still existed, but I didn't know where I was. The one thought that kept rolling through my mind was, "How can I be when I'm not?" That is what troubled me.

"Slowly I got a grip on myself and began to think about what had happened, what was going on. But nothing refreshing or relaxing came to me. Why am I in this darkness? What am I to do? Then I remembered Descartes' famous line: "I think, therefore I am." And that took a huge burden off me, for it was then I knew for certain I was still alive, although obviously in a very different dimension. Then I thought, If I am, why shouldn't I be positive? That is what came to me. I am George and I'm in darkness, but I know I am. I am what I am. I must not be negative.

"Then I thought, How can I define what is positive in darkness? Well, positive is light. Then, suddenly, I was in light; bright white, shiny and strong; a very bright light. I was like the flash of a camera, but not flickering - that bright. Constant brightness. At first I found the brilliance of the light painful, I couldn't look directly at it. But little by little I began to relax. I began to feel warm, comforted, and everything suddenly seemed fine.

"The next thing that happened was that I saw all these molecules flying around, atoms, protons, neutrons, just flying everywhere. On the one hand, it was totally chaotic, yet what brought me such great joy was that this chaos also had its own symmetry. This symmetry was beautiful and unified and whole, and it flooded me with tremendous joy. I saw the universal form of life and nature laid out before my eyes. It was at this point that any concern I had for my body just slipped away, because it was clear to me that I didn't need it anymore, that it was actually a limitation.

"Everything in this experience merged together, so it is difficult for me to put an exact sequence to events. Time as I had known it came to a halt; past, present, and future were somehow fused together for me in the timeless unity of life.

"At some point I underwent what has been called the life-review process, for I saw my life from beginning to end all at once. I participated in the real life dramas of my life, almost like a holographic image of my life going on before me - no sense of past, present, or future, just now and the reality of my life. It wasn't as though it started with birth and ran along to my life at the University of Moscow. It all appeared at once. There I was. This was my life. I didn't experience any sense of guilt or remorse for things I'd done. I didn't feel one way or another about my failures, faults, or achievements. All I felt was my life for what it is. And I was content with that. I accepted my life for what it is.

"During this time the light just radiated a sense of peace and joy to me. It was very positive. I was so happy to be in the light. And I understood what the light meant. I learned that all the physical rules for human life were nothing when compared to this unitive reality. I also came to see that a black hole is only another part of that infinity which is light.

"I came to see that reality is everywhere. That it is not simply the earthly life but the infinite life. Everything is not only connected together, everything is also one. So I felt a wholeness with the light, a sense that all is right with me and the universe.

"I could be anywhere instantly, really there. I tried to communicate with the people I saw. Some sensed my presence, but no one did anything about it. I felt it necessary to learn about the Bible and philosophy. You want, you receive. Think and it comes to you. So I participated, I went back and lived in the minds of Jesus and his disciples. I heard their conversations, experienced eating, passing wine, smells, tastes - yet I had no body. I was pure consciousness. If I didn't understand what was happening, an explanation would come. But no teacher spoke. I explored the Roman Empire, Babylon, the times of Noah and Abraham. Any era you can name, I went there.

"So there I was, flooded with all these good things and this wonderful experience, when someone begins to cut into my stomach. Can you imagine? What had happened was that I was taken to the morgue. I was pronounced dead and left there for three days. An investigation into the cause of my death was set up, so they sent someone out to do an autopsy on me. As they began to cut into my stomach, I felt as though some great power took hold of my neck and pushed me down. And it was so powerful that I opened my eyes and had this huge sense of pain. My body was cold and I began to shiver. They immediately stopped the autopsy and took me to the hospital, where I remained for the following nine months, most of which I spent under a respirator.

"Slowly I regained my health. But I would never be the same again, because all I wanted to do for the rest of my life was study wisdom. This new interest led me to attend the University of Georgia, where I took my second Ph.D., in the psychology of religion. Then I became a priest in the Eastern Orthodox Church. Eventually, in 1989, we came to America, and I am now working as an associate pastor at the First United Methodist Church in Nederland, Texas.

"Many people have asked me what I believe in, how my NDE changed my life. All I can say is that I now believe in the God of the universe. Unlike many other people, however, I have never called God the light, because God is beyond our comprehension. God, I believe, is even more than the light, because God is also darkness. God is everything that exists, everything - and that is beyond our ability to comprehend at all. So I don't believe in the God of the Jews, or the Christians, or the Hindus, or in any one religion's idea of what God is or is not. It is all the same God, and that God showed me that the universe in which we live is a beautiful and marvelous mystery that is connected together forever and for always.

"Anyone who has had such an experience of God, who has felt such a profound sense of connection with reality, knows that there is only one truly significant work to do in life, and that is love; to love nature, to love people, to love animals, to love creation itself, just because it is. To serve God's creation with a warm and loving hand of generosity and compassion - that is the only meaningful existence.

"Many people turn to those who have had NDEs because they sense we have the answers. But I know this is not true, at least not entirely. None of us will fully fathom the great truths of life until we finally unite with eternity at death. But occasionally we get glimpses of the answer here on Earth, and that alone is enough for me. I love to ask questions and to seek answers, but I know in the end I must live the questions and the answers. But that is okay, isn't it? So long as we love, love with all our heart and passion, it doesn't matter, does it? Perhaps the best way for me to convey what I am trying to say is to share with you something the poet Rilke once wrote in a letter to a friend. I saw this letter, the original handwritten letter, in the library at Dresden University in Germany. (He quotes from memory, as follows
"Be patient with all that is unresolved in your heart. And try to love the questions themselves. Do not seek for the answers that cannot be given. For you wouldn't be able to live with them. And the point is to live everything, live the questions now, and perhaps without knowing it, you will live along some day into the answers."
"I place my faith in that. Live the questions, and the universe will open up its eyes to you."
Return to Top

2. George Rodonaia's Verified Out-of-Body Perception of an Injured Infant

More information about George's NDE account is described in Dr. Melvin Morse and Paul Perry's book entitled Transformed by the Light. Dr. Morse refers to George by his Russian name "Yuri". The following is an excerpt of Transformed by the Light which describes George's observation of an infant while George is out of his body.

"[During Yuri's NDE, he] could go visit his family. He saw his grieving wife and their two sons, both too small to understand that their father had been killed.

"Then he visited his next-door neighbor. They had a new child, born a couple of days before Yuri's "death." Yuri could tell that they were upset by what happened to him. But they were especially distressed by the fact that their child would not stop crying.
"No matter what they did he continued to cry. When he slept it was short and fitful and then he would awaken, crying again. They had taken him back to the doctors but they were stumped. All the usual things such as colic were ruled out and they sent them home hoping the baby would eventually settle down.

"While there in this disembodied state, Yuri discovered something:
"l could talk to the baby. It was amazing. I could not talk to the parents - my friends - but I could talk to the little boy who had just been born. I asked him what was wrong. No words were exchanged, but I asked him maybe through telepathy what was wrong. He told me that his arm hurt. And when he told me that, I was able to see that the bone was twisted and broken."
"The baby had a greenstick fracture, a break in the bone in his arm probably cause by having been twisted during childbirth. Now Yuri and the baby knew what was wrong, but neither had the ability to communicate the problem to the parents.

"Eventually the doctor from Moscow came to perform the autopsy on Yuri. When they moved his body from the cabinet to a gurney, his eyes flickered. The doctor became suspicious and examined his eyes. When they responded to light, he was immediately wheeled to emergency surgery and saved.

"Yuri told his family about being "dead." No one believed him until he began to provide details about what he saw during his travels out of body. Then they became less skeptical. His diagnosis on the baby next door did the trick. He told of visiting them that night and of their concern over their new child. He told them that he had talked to the baby and discovered that he had a greenstick fracture of his arm. The parents took the child to a doctor and he x-rayed the arm only to discover that Yuri's very long-distance diagnosis was right."

I've met many people who have had near death experiences and they all have something in common, and that's knowing that life isn't over after the flesh has perished. Some of their stories relate to the hidden knowledge I possess but most of their stories come with deception. But it makes no difference to me because I know that we're all going to live forever because death of our flesh is only an illusion, like everything else is in this world.

 

[PainefulTruth]

There is no verified reality there. The only way to verify a genuine out of body experience would be if the person could relate something that happened well away from where he was during his NDE.

 

[Vox]

There is no verified reality there. The only way to verify a genuine out of body experience would be if the person could relate something that happened well away from where he was during his NDE.

there are hundreds of NDEs where people have done exactly that.

If not thousands.
and there was the exact verifiable reality in the described NDE as well - if you read it - it was glaringly obvious.

 

[editec]

I had a Near Death (death?) experience when I was 7 years old.

Everything you have heard or read about that experience happened to me, too.

And it happened years before anybody ever talked about NDEs.

What does that mean?

Bets the crap outa me, I just know what I experienced.

 

[Vox]

I had a Near Death (death?) experience when I was 7 years old.

Everything you have heard or read about that experience happened to me, too.

And it happened years before anybody ever talked about NDEs.

What does that mean?

Bets the crap outa me, I just know what I experienced.

can you describe it for us, plz?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Something I've always wondered about is if NDE happen so reliably (since there's supposedly an afterlife) why not test it scientificly by inducing death in a controlled manner ala "Flatliners." Can't be that hard, yet I've never heard of anyone anywhere doing it. Seems the obvious thing to be done if there's really something going on after our body's die. And if believers really believe they should be eagerly volunteering. Afterall, if they can't be revived not like that's bad right, afterlife and all that.

 

[jon_berzerk]

I had a Near Death (death?) experience when I was 7 years old.

Everything you have heard or read about that experience happened to me, too.

And it happened years before anybody ever talked about NDEs.

What does that mean?

Bets the crap outa me, I just know what I experienced.

can you describe it for us, plz?

i had an experience once also

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Important thing to keep in mind is a Near-Death Experience is just that, near-death. You're still alive, brain's still functioning. Thus whatever you might think you experienced is best thought of as hallucinations. When you're all-dead for some time and come back we'll talk more.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Something I've always wondered about is if NDE happen so reliably (since there's supposedly an afterlife) why not test it scientificly by inducing death in a controlled manner ala "Flatliners." Can't be that hard, yet I've never heard of anyone anywhere doing it. Seems the obvious thing to be done if there's really something going on after our body's die. And if believers really believe they should be eagerly volunteering. Afterall, if they can't be revived not like that's bad right, afterlife and all that.

the air force has done some similar testing with pilots with high g forces

and the out of body experiences some have

 

[editec]

I had a Near Death (death?) experience when I was 7 years old.

Everything you have heard or read about that experience happened to me, too.

And it happened years before anybody ever talked about NDEs.

What does that mean?

Bets the crap outa me, I just know what I experienced.

can you describe it for us, plz?

In a nutshell?

drowning while reliving my entire life;
first breathe of water -agony followed by the most peaceful feeling I have ever had;
woke up in a gray place. My late Grandmother (a women I barely knew) came through a door and told me in broken English (she was an immigrant) that I did not belong there;
I woke floating in a tree about 20 feet over the crowd that was watching a girl give me mouth to mouth.
Woke up again, puking up water.

My only advise?

Death by drowning isn't so bad once you give up.

What does it all mean?

Bets me, man.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

There is no verified reality there. The only way to verify a genuine out of body experience would be if the person could relate something that happened well away from where he was during his NDE.

Did you bother to read the story?

How could he possible know about the child's fractured arm?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

There is no verified reality there. The only way to verify a genuine out of body experience would be if the person could relate something that happened well away from where he was during his NDE.

Did you bother to read the story?

How could he possible know about the child's fractured arm?

And if you read it in a story about the supposed afterlife it must be true! Why would anyone make it up? (rolls eyes) Oy.

 

[Moonglow]

MY Father-in-law spoke of his near death episode after drowning. He said he saw no light and, had nothing happen.

 

[Vox]

Something I've always wondered about is if NDE happen so reliably (since there's supposedly an afterlife) why not test it scientificly by inducing death in a controlled manner ala "Flatliners." Can't be that hard, yet I've never heard of anyone anywhere doing it. Seems the obvious thing to be done if there's really something going on after our body's die. And if believers really believe they should be eagerly volunteering. Afterall, if they can't be revived not like that's bad right, afterlife and all that.

It is unethical and won't be done.

 

[PainefulTruth]

There is no verified reality there. The only way to verify a genuine out of body experience would be if the person could relate something that happened well away from where he was during his NDE.

there are hundreds of NDEs where people have done exactly that.

If not thousands.
and there was the exact verifiable reality in the described NDE as well - if you read it - it was glaringly obvious.

People having an experience elsewhere while in an NDE is different than coming to an understanding about information they'd acquired previously. I don't know of any such verified experience. It would have to be involvement in an event that happened during the NDE. It's the difference between having an actual eusa_whistle: ) divine revelation as opposed to understanding coming to someone in a dream. We don't know and probably can never know all the facts of what happened to him prior to his NDE. People solve problems though dream epiphanies all the time from information they just hadn't processed before. He could have noticed a bruise or heard a whisper.

I had a Near Death (death?) experience when I was 7 years old.

Everything you have heard or read about that experience happened to me, too.

And it happened years before anybody ever talked about NDEs.

What does that mean?

Bets the crap outa me, I just know what I experienced.

I think there is something to NDEs, but to give them afterlife associations is a giant step beyond equating them with dreams or dream-like states. I have an open mind adhering to the scientific method. I actually believe (as opposed to knowing) in an afterlife.

There is no verified reality there. The only way to verify a genuine out of body experience would be if the person could relate something that happened well away from where he was during his NDE.

Did you bother to read the story?

How could he possible know about the child's fractured arm?

Re: above. He actually saw the child and dealt with the family before. We need to be careful. Jumping to conclusions is how we came up with all the miracles and all the revelations in all the revealed religions in the world.

 

[Vox]

I had a Near Death (death?) experience when I was 7 years old.

Everything you have heard or read about that experience happened to me, too.

And it happened years before anybody ever talked about NDEs.

What does that mean?

Bets the crap outa me, I just know what I experienced.

can you describe it for us, plz?

In a nutshell?

drowning while reliving my entire life;
first breathe of water -agony followed by the most peaceful feeling I have ever had;
woke up in a gray place. My late Grandmother (a women I barely knew) came through a door and told me in broken English (she was an immigrant) that I did not belong there;
I woke floating in a tree about 20 feet over the crowd that was watching a girl give me mouth to mouth.
Woke up again, puking up water.

My only advise?

Death by drowning isn't so bad once you give up.

What does it all mean?

Bets me, man.

cool

thank you for sharing with us.

 

[Vox]

There is no verified reality there. The only way to verify a genuine out of body experience would be if the person could relate something that happened well away from where he was during his NDE.

there are hundreds of NDEs where people have done exactly that.

If not thousands.
and there was the exact verifiable reality in the described NDE as well - if you read it - it was glaringly obvious.

People having an experience elsewhere while in an NDE is different than coming to an understanding about information they'd acquired previously. I don't know of any such verified experience. It would have to be involvement in an event that happened during the NDE. It's the difference between having an actual eusa_whistle: ) divine revelation as opposed to understanding coming to someone in a dream. We don't know and probably can never know all the facts of what happened to him prior to his NDE. People solve problems though dream epiphanies all the time from information they just hadn't processed before. He could have noticed a bruise or heard a whisper.

there are hundreds if not thousands of experiences with verified occurences which could nothave been known to the NDErer at all. If you are interested on the issue - the information is widely available. Including the scientific research.
The Lancet: Near-death experience in survivors of cardiac arrest

just one of them. You can also check the case of Pamela Reynolds - it is actually the most pure clear cut, almost experimentally approved case where the person was dead and confirmed being dead by al physiological standards and monitoring.
there are also cases of the congenitally blind people.

check it out - it is amazing.

 

[Vox]

Important thing to keep in mind is a Near-Death Experience is just that, near-death. You're still alive, brain's still functioning. Thus whatever you might think you experienced is best thought of as hallucinations. When you're all-dead for some time and come back we'll talk more.

nope, you are NOT. and neither brain, nor heart are functioning.

 

[emilynghiem]

There is no verified reality there. The only way to verify a genuine out of body experience would be if the person could relate something that happened well away from where he was during his NDE.

Dear PT: When my friend Olivia was praying for a person undergoing surgery, the person saw her in the operating room when this was physically impossible.

Olivia also had dreams of seeing her son while she was "out of her body" and found out later he had seen her also at that same time.

I thought there were already numerous accounts similar to this, where patients report seeing themselves as if floating above the operating table looking down, and seeing and hearing things while they were unconscious on anesthesia. I took it for granted this is not uncommon.