5 Myths About Global Health Care

[Toro]

1. It's all socialized medicine out there.

Not so. Some countries, such as Britain, New Zealand and Cuba, do provide health care in government hospitals, with the government paying the bills. Others -- for instance, Canada and Taiwan -- rely on private-sector providers, paid for by government-run insurance. But many wealthy countries -- including Germany, the Netherlands, Japan and Switzerland -- provide universal coverage using private doctors, private hospitals and private insurance plans. ...

2. Overseas, care is rationed through limited choices or long lines.

Generally, no. Germans can sign up for any of the nation's 200 private health insurance plans -- a broader choice than any American has. If a German doesn't like her insurance company, she can switch to another, with no increase in premium. The Swiss, too, can choose any insurance plan in the country.

In France and Japan, you don't get a choice of insurance provider; you have to use the one designated for your company or your industry. But patients can go to any doctor, any hospital, any traditional healer. There are no U.S.-style limits such as "in-network" lists of doctors or "pre-authorization" for surgery. You pick any doctor, you get treatment -- and insurance has to pay. ...

3. Foreign health-care systems are inefficient, bloated bureaucracies.

Much less so than here. It may seem to Americans that U.S.-style free enterprise -- private-sector, for-profit health insurance -- is naturally the most cost-effective way to pay for health care. But in fact, all the other payment systems are more efficient than ours.

U.S. health insurance companies have the highest administrative costs in the world; they spend roughly 20 cents of every dollar for nonmedical costs, such as paperwork, reviewing claims and marketing. France's health insurance industry, in contrast, covers everybody and spends about 4 percent on administration. Canada's universal insurance system, run by government bureaucrats, spends 6 percent on administration. In Taiwan, a leaner version of the Canadian model has administrative costs of 1.5 percent; one year, this figure ballooned to 2 percent, and the opposition parties savaged the government for wasting money. ...

4. Cost controls stifle innovation.

False. The United States is home to groundbreaking medical research, but so are other countries with much lower cost structures. Any American who's had a hip or knee replacement is standing on French innovation. Deep-brain stimulation to treat depression is a Canadian breakthrough. Many of the wonder drugs promoted endlessly on American television, including Viagra, come from British, Swiss or Japanese labs. ...

5. Health insurance has to be cruel. ...

Foreign health insurance companies, in contrast, must accept all applicants, and they can't cancel as long as you pay your premiums. The plans are required to pay any claim submitted by a doctor or hospital (or health spa), usually within tight time limits. The big Swiss insurer Groupe Mutuel promises to pay all claims within five days. "Our customers love it," the group's chief executive told me. The corollary is that everyone is mandated to buy insurance, to give the plans an adequate pool of rate-payers.

The key difference is that foreign health insurance plans exist only to pay people's medical bills, not to make a profit. The United States is the only developed country that lets insurance companies profit from basic health coverage.

washingtonpost.com

 

[veritas]

Very illuminating.

 

[auditor0007]

1. It's all socialized medicine out there.

Not so. Some countries, such as Britain, New Zealand and Cuba, do provide health care in government hospitals, with the government paying the bills. Others -- for instance, Canada and Taiwan -- rely on private-sector providers, paid for by government-run insurance. But many wealthy countries -- including Germany, the Netherlands, Japan and Switzerland -- provide universal coverage using private doctors, private hospitals and private insurance plans. ...

2. Overseas, care is rationed through limited choices or long lines.

Generally, no. Germans can sign up for any of the nation's 200 private health insurance plans -- a broader choice than any American has. If a German doesn't like her insurance company, she can switch to another, with no increase in premium. The Swiss, too, can choose any insurance plan in the country.

In France and Japan, you don't get a choice of insurance provider; you have to use the one designated for your company or your industry. But patients can go to any doctor, any hospital, any traditional healer. There are no U.S.-style limits such as "in-network" lists of doctors or "pre-authorization" for surgery. You pick any doctor, you get treatment -- and insurance has to pay. ...

3. Foreign health-care systems are inefficient, bloated bureaucracies.

Much less so than here. It may seem to Americans that U.S.-style free enterprise -- private-sector, for-profit health insurance -- is naturally the most cost-effective way to pay for health care. But in fact, all the other payment systems are more efficient than ours.

U.S. health insurance companies have the highest administrative costs in the world; they spend roughly 20 cents of every dollar for nonmedical costs, such as paperwork, reviewing claims and marketing. France's health insurance industry, in contrast, covers everybody and spends about 4 percent on administration. Canada's universal insurance system, run by government bureaucrats, spends 6 percent on administration. In Taiwan, a leaner version of the Canadian model has administrative costs of 1.5 percent; one year, this figure ballooned to 2 percent, and the opposition parties savaged the government for wasting money. ...

4. Cost controls stifle innovation.

False. The United States is home to groundbreaking medical research, but so are other countries with much lower cost structures. Any American who's had a hip or knee replacement is standing on French innovation. Deep-brain stimulation to treat depression is a Canadian breakthrough. Many of the wonder drugs promoted endlessly on American television, including Viagra, come from British, Swiss or Japanese labs. ...

5. Health insurance has to be cruel. ...

Foreign health insurance companies, in contrast, must accept all applicants, and they can't cancel as long as you pay your premiums. The plans are required to pay any claim submitted by a doctor or hospital (or health spa), usually within tight time limits. The big Swiss insurer Groupe Mutuel promises to pay all claims within five days. "Our customers love it," the group's chief executive told me. The corollary is that everyone is mandated to buy insurance, to give the plans an adequate pool of rate-payers.

The key difference is that foreign health insurance plans exist only to pay people's medical bills, not to make a profit. The United States is the only developed country that lets insurance companies profit from basic health coverage.

washingtonpost.com

And that is the biggest problem. To make matters worse, the insurance companies do not help to reduce costs. Since I am now without insurance, I am paying as out of pocket for all of my medical care, which involves seeing doctors, having lab tests with follow up, getting ultrasounds, phlebotomies, and a number of other things. What I have found is that by doing some legwork, I can get most things I need for a fraction of what the insurance companies pay. As an example, I am now getting my phlebotomies for $75. When I had insurance, the insurance company was paying the hospital between $375 and $400. Lab tests I can purchase directly for less than half what the insurance company would pay.

So my question is, if I can save so much money paying out of pocket, where the hell is all the rest of the money going that the insurance companies are paying out? We are being bamboozled folks.

Think about this one; when my wife was battling leukemia, she needed a bone marrow transplant. She was in quarantine for one month after the transplant. Total cost; a little over $500,000. That is over $16,000 per day. I know that certain medical procedures are expensive, and that staying in the hospital is not cheap, but $16,000 per day? Where is all of this money going?

 

[Ravi]

From the article:

In Japan, waiting times are so short that most patients don't bother to make an appointment. One Thursday morning in Tokyo, I called the prestigious orthopedic clinic at Keio University Hospital to schedule a consultation about my aching shoulder. "Why don't you just drop by?" the receptionist said. That same afternoon, I was in the surgeon's office. Dr. Nakamichi recommended an operation. "When could we do it?" I asked. The doctor checked his computer and said, "Tomorrow would be pretty difficult. Perhaps some day next week?"

 

[Care4all]

It's sad that Republicans have spread so many rumors about these other countries and how terrible their systems are....little do they know, they are only passing along the insurance companies lies.

It's a damn shame our health care system is so filled will $300,000,000 million dollar salaries and shuffling of unpurposeful paperwork and spending a years time rejecting your claim....

Us Americans, deserve better.

 

[dilloduck]

It's not fair to even have to pay for healthcare. It's necessary for humans to survive. Why should we have to pay to survive?

 

[Care4all]

It's not fair to even have to pay for healthcare. It's necessary for humans to survive. Why should we have to pay to survive?

IS ANYONE demanding something impossible like this, other than you?

 

[dilloduck]

It's not fair to even have to pay for healthcare. It's necessary for humans to survive. Why should we have to pay to survive?

IS ANYONE demanding something impossible like this, other than you?

Odd---I dont see a demand there.

 

[Care4all]

It's not fair to even have to pay for healthcare. It's necessary for humans to survive. Why should we have to pay to survive?

IS ANYONE demanding something impossible like this, other than you?

Odd---I dont see a demand there.

ooops! you're right!

 

[Toro]

I'm listening to a podcast of this show on global health care. Its very interesting.

T.R. Reid: Looking Overseas For 'Healing Of America' : NPR

He notes that America is the only country in the world that allows for-profit insurance on basic services.

Why do we have to have for-profit insurance here? There are credit unions and mutual life and home insurance in America. He notes that the insurers in places like Germany and France and tremendously more efficient than in America. He also stated that insurance companies sell non-profit health insurance alongside for-profit car insurance, life insurance, home insurance, etc. It is used as a marketing tool to sell other products.

 

[Bern80]

I'm listening to a podcast of this show on global health care. Its very interesting.

T.R. Reid: Looking Overseas For 'Healing Of America' : NPR

He notes that America is the only country in the world that allows for-profit insurance on basic services.

Why do we have to have for-profit insurance here? There are credit unions and mutual life and home insurance in America. He notes that the insurers in places like Germany and France and tremendously more efficient than in America. He also stated that insurance companies sell non-profit health insurance alongside for-profit car insurance, life insurance, home insurance, etc. It is used as a marketing tool to sell other products.

Sorry, Toro. You're usually pretty objective. But you'll have to forgive me for not swallowing hook, line and sinker the word of a leftist editorialist who provides no data to support what he says he 'saw'.

It also, misses a rather large point. What we're supposed to buy into in this piece is that now that the 'myth's' we were so worried about coming to our country have been dispelled, we won't have to worry about adopting the practices of other countries here. Here's the problem that I've said I don't know how many freakin times now. WE AREN'T OTHER COUNTRIES. Because there may not be the waiting we believe there to be (even though I've been told there is personally from many who know so) doesn't mean it won't be a problem here. Last time I checked most docs don't have a lot of free time to sit around twittling their thumbs.

This is not rocket science people. If cost goes down demand MUST go up. And unless supply goes up with it there WILL be longer waits. We just saw this on TV. What was suppossed to be a bleeding heart story about how the only option for the poor are these free clinics set up in stadiums, showed a microcosm of EXACTLY what will happen. Price plummetted and demand skyrocketed and they still had to turn people away.

 

[Toro]

I have posted articles both for and against government healthcare, and for and against the American model.

I have lived in Canada, the United States and England, and have seen both the good and bad of all the systems. I do not think that what is being presented is inaccurate.

 

[Chris]

I have posted articles both for and against government healthcare, and for and against the American model.

I have lived in Canada, the United States and England, and have seen both the good and bad of all the systems. I do not think that what is being presented is inaccurate.

Of course it isn't inaccurate.

Unless you are a jingoistic idiot.

 

[Care4all]

Amazing that only a handful have posted in this thread...

It is as though those that are SCARED TO DEATH of universal health care are scared to death of discussing the universal health care other countries have that they hate so much?

 

[Ravi]

Amazing that only a handful have posted in this thread...

It is as though those that are SCARED TO DEATH of universal health care are scared to death of discussing the universal health care other countries have that they hate so much?

If we want anything the French have it means we are cowardly wusses.

 

[Big Black Dog]

When the government gets around to "reinventing" our medical system, I hope they go back to the days when doctors came to your house to treat you and you could pay them with a bushel of onions or maybe some fresh fruit. Set up a system for payment like to have your tonsils taken out it might cost you two fat hens or possibly a turkey. What would be wrong with that?

 

[Ravi]

When the government gets around to "reinventing" our medical system, I hope they go back to the days when doctors came to your house to treat you and you could pay them with a bushel of onions or maybe some fresh fruit. Set up a system for payment like to have your tonsils taken out it might cost you two fat hens or possibly a turkey. What would be wrong with that?

Nothing, and it still happens in some poor communities.

 

[Care4all]

When the government gets around to "reinventing" our medical system, I hope they go back to the days when doctors came to your house to treat you and you could pay them with a bushel of onions or maybe some fresh fruit. Set up a system for payment like to have your tonsils taken out it might cost you two fat hens or possibly a turkey. What would be wrong with that?

nothing would be wrong with it, but the Insurance Companies would not get their trillions in profit off of us...

and they line Congresses pockets with lobby money sooooo don't expect any decent kind of system like that to ever work with American Greed that surrounds us!

care

 

[Bern80]

Amazing that only a handful have posted in this thread...

It is as though those that are SCARED TO DEATH of universal health care are scared to death of discussing the universal health care other countries have that they hate so much?

I'm not scared of it as all (see above). Simply because I'm smart enough to know showing what another country is doing is not evidence that it will work here. That's the shocker care. There are all kinds of people here saying this is what country x or y is doing and it's working just great for them. When in almost every case they're are ignoring the bad parts, like while Frances model is heald up, the fact that it is losing money by the millions gets swept under the rug. Further, those they do point to county x or y has having a good system have yet to take the next step. Being showing some evidence that if applied here it will actually work.

 

[cunclusion]

This is the type of information that should be out there and then let people come up with their own opinion based on truth.