$15 minimum wage would destroy 1.4 Million jobs

[Blues Man]

I don't need to put everything into 2 little boxes like you do.

Everyone you disagree with is a "right winger" and everyone you agree with is a "left winger"

You can't seem to realize that there are other options.

And I'm nt complaining about job losses at all. I am merely telling you what will happen if the MW is more than doubled but you refuse to believe it.......................................................

We know some business owners would rather cut jobs than simply pass on that price inflation to their customers. It is a short term problem since higher paid labor will create more in demand and generate more tax revenue in the long run.

What you don't understand is that a business can't just keep inflating prices because the consumer will always stop buying if they think the price is too high. So add higher prices and decreasing purchasing power and what do you get?

You get people spending less money

 

[Blues Man]

And the people who lose their jobs won't. The people who keep their jobs will have decreased purchasing power so it ain't gonna be the big economic lift you think it will be.

Why do you believe persons nearly doubling their wage will have decreased purchasing power? Statements like that are usually nothing but right wing propaganda yet you would have us believe you are not a right winger.

The people making 7.25 an hour now are going to be the ones that lose their jobs first so there won't be a huge number of people who actually see a doubling of their pay.

This is the CBO's prediction and if you had a single logical brain cell it would make sense to you.

And if you actually read what I have written I said it's the people who are making close to 15 an hour now that will see their purchasing power decrease. The people making 7. 25 an hour now won't have any purchasing power because they will lose their jobs. How many people do you think make the federal MW anyway? FYI it's less than 2% of all workers.

 

[Wyatt earp]

We need to force owners to:

Not raise prices

Not automate

Not to lay off workers

Not to cut hours

Not to go out of business

Then the new minimum wage law would work! !!!

 

[Supposn]

... The people making 7.25 an hour now are going to be the ones that lose their jobs first so there won't be a huge number of people who actually see a doubling of their pay.
This is the CBO's prediction and if you had a single logical brain cell it would make sense to you. ...

Blues Man, you're incorrect.
Congressional Budget Office’s, (CBO‘s) published projections for the House’s proposed “Raise the Rate” bill describe an act that would be an improvement of our nation’s economic and social wellbeing.
CBO’s projections for lower wage-rate workers and for their lower wage-rate families of lower incomes, are, (proportional to their total incomes) substantially much greater.
Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Blues Man]

... The people making 7.25 an hour now are going to be the ones that lose their jobs first so there won't be a huge number of people who actually see a doubling of their pay.
This is the CBO's prediction and if you had a single logical brain cell it would make sense to you. ...

Blues Man, you're incorrect.
Congressional Budget Office’s, (CBO‘s) published projections for the House’s proposed “Raise the Rate” bill describe an act that would be an improvement of our nation’s economic and social wellbeing.
CBO’s projections for lower wage-rate workers and for their lower wage-rate families of lower incomes, are, (proportional to their total incomes) substantially much greater.
Respectfully, Supposn

The CBO predicted 1.4 million jobs lost.

Of those jobs the most will be people who are at the low end of the wage scale.

 

[Wyatt earp]

... The people making 7.25 an hour now are going to be the ones that lose their jobs first so there won't be a huge number of people who actually see a doubling of their pay.
This is the CBO's prediction and if you had a single logical brain cell it would make sense to you. ...

Blues Man, you're incorrect.
Congressional Budget Office’s, (CBO‘s) published projections for the House’s proposed “Raise the Rate” bill describe an act that would be an improvement of our nation’s economic and social wellbeing.
CBO’s projections for lower wage-rate workers and for their lower wage-rate families of lower incomes, are, (proportional to their total incomes) substantially much greater.
Respectfully, Supposn

The CBO predicted 1.4 million jobs lost.

Of those jobs the most will be people who are at the low end of the wage scale.

Old people, minority's...so much for the workers party of Democrats

 

[dblack]

"In the long term". Nice, because that's what I've been saying. The market can handle MW increases if it is allowed to adjust to them over time. Double it overnight and it's a recipe for disaster. Anyway, there is nothing preventing states and cities from enacting their own MW. Why aren't you complaining about your local government?

What disaster are you referring to? The minimum wage increase could be coupled with tax considerations for businesses to help overcome the price shock. Unemployment compensation could be more comprehensive. And, higher paid labor will create more in demand and generate more tax revenue. Policies that resort to automatic stabilization should be the key to more economically efficient public policies.

Hell a 15 dollar minimum wage is just the beginning, all the new wealth of this country since Reagan s trickle down lie has gone to the golden few at the top, for 40 years . Now we write tax law and benefits to do the complete opposite for the next 40 years and all the new wealth goes to everyone other then the golden few, Seems fair to me. To be fair taxes will go up massively for the Wealthy.

Why should government decide where the wealth goes? That's what the market is for.

If that was a case they wouldn't have sold the trickle down lie to the right wing brainless

That doesn't answer the question.

 

[Supposn]

The CBO predicted 1.4 million jobs lost. Of those jobs the most will be people who are at the low end of the wage scale.

Blues Man, Congressional Budget Office’s, (CBO‘s) published projections for the House’s proposed “Raise the Rate” bill describe an act that would be an improvement of our nation’s economic and social wellbeing.

CBO’s projections for aggregate lower wage-rate workers and for their families of lower incomes, are, (proportional to their total incomes) substantially much greater. Those CBO’s projections include worker and members of lower income families that are employed or unemployed .

CBO’s projections are for 1,300,000 lesser USA persons in poverty and a 1/10 of a percent reduction of USA families' total incomes which are almost entire reductions from higher income families. That a proposal of net benefit to our nation's economic and social wellbeing.
Respectfully, Supposn
Refer to page 3, table 1, " Effects of Increases in the Federal Minimum Wage on Employment, Income, and Poverty, 2025"
within https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2019-07/CBO-55410-MinimumWage2019.pdf

 

[Blues Man]

The CBO predicted 1.4 million jobs lost. Of those jobs the most will be people who are at the low end of the wage scale.

Blues Man, Congressional Budget Office’s, (CBO‘s) published projections for the House’s proposed “Raise the Rate” bill describe an act that would be an improvement of our nation’s economic and social wellbeing.

CBO’s projections for aggregate lower wage-rate workers and for their families of lower incomes, are, (proportional to their total incomes) substantially much greater. Those CBO’s projections include worker and members of lower income families that are employed or unemployed .

CBO’s projections are for 1,300,000 lesser USA persons in poverty and a 1/10 of a percent reduction of USA families' total incomes which are almost entire reductions from higher income families. That a proposal of net benefit to our nation's economic and social wellbeing.
Respectfully, Supposn
Refer to page 3, table 1, " Effects of Increases in the Federal Minimum Wage on Employment, Income, and Poverty, 2025"
within https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2019-07/CBO-55410-MinimumWage2019.pdf

and 1.4 million people losing their jobs.

 

[Supposn]

and 1.4 million people losing their jobs.

Blues Man, Congressional Budget Office’s, (CBO‘s) published projections for the House’s proposed “Raise the Rate” bill describe an act that would be an improvement of our nation’s economic and social wellbeing.

CBO’s projections for aggregate lower wage-rate workers and for their families of lower incomes, are, (proportional to their total incomes) substantially much greater. Those CBO’s projections include worker and members of lower income families that are employed or unemployed. Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Blues Man]

and 1.4 million people losing their jobs.

Blues Man, Congressional Budget Office’s, (CBO‘s) published projections for the House’s proposed “Raise the Rate” bill describe an act that would be an improvement of our nation’s economic and social wellbeing.

CBO’s projections for aggregate lower wage-rate workers and for their families of lower incomes, are, (proportional to their total incomes) substantially much greater. Those CBO’s projections include worker and members of lower income families that are employed or unemployed. Respectfully, Supposn

If 1.4 million people lose their jobs how can 1.3 million people be lifted out of poverty?

 

[hadit]

What is to the contrary?

In economics, the marginal propensity to consume (MPC) is a metric that quantifies induced consumption, the concept that the increase in personal consumer spending (consumption) occurs with an increase in disposable income (income after taxes and transfers). -- Marginal propensity to consume - Wikipedia

You keep ignoring the many that you will throw out of work and into dependence on welfare.

There is no law requiring capitalists to cut jobs when they could simply and easily pass on that cost to their consumers.

You clearly have no idea how hard it is for a single company to raise prices if the competition is not also doing it. If they raise prices while others do not, they lose business. Sane people know that.

I only clearly have some idea why you keep missing the point about a Statutory change to the minimum wage. It is why I have a difficult time believing right wingers are serious about the topics they allege to care about.

I have stated more than thrice (after thrice it is just a vice), that all of that single company's competition is going to be in the same boat regarding a Statutory minimum wage.

It sounds like you're admitting that prices would immediately go up, thus nullifying part of the benefit of higher wages. Sure, you get more in your paycheck, but then everything costs more at the same time.

 

[hadit]

Blues Man, possibly you may be correct.
But it does mean in aggregate, lower wage workers and families derive the greatest net financial benefits from the federal minimum wage rate. That remains true even when including unemployed workers and unemployed members of lower wage-earning families.

Paradoxically, it’s the employed and the unemployed lower wage-earning workers, and all of their dependents residing in states with lesser regard for them, (i.e. states that do not enforce higher than the federal minimum rate within their jurisdictions), that are proportional their incomes, the greater beneficiaries due the federal minimum wage rate. …

That doesn't change the reality that the worst hit with job losses will be the ones on the bottom rung of the ladder.

Hadit, you and Blues Man make the same point and possibly you’re both correct. But fully acknowledging and with due consideration for your point, the federal minimum wage rate is net beneficial to our nation's economic and social welfare and it is proportionally of greater benefit to USA’s aggregate employed plus unemployed lower wage-rate earning workers and members of their lower income families.
Respectfully, Supposn

Why do we need a federal MW when cities and states are free to set their own at levels that work best for them?

 

[hadit]

"In the long term". Nice, because that's what I've been saying. The market can handle MW increases if it is allowed to adjust to them over time. Double it overnight and it's a recipe for disaster. Anyway, there is nothing preventing states and cities from enacting their own MW. Why aren't you complaining about your local government?

What disaster are you referring to? The minimum wage increase could be coupled with tax considerations for businesses to help overcome the price shock. Unemployment compensation could be more comprehensive. And, higher paid labor will create more in demand and generate more tax revenue. Policies that resort to automatic stabilization should be the key to more economically efficient public policies.

Yeah, yeah, there's that old schtick again, claiming they would cut taxes so business could pay higher wages, even though you know democrats won't let that happen. And no, UC cannot become welfare and still work the way it does. The rest of what you said is nonsense slogans.

I am claiming businesses can handle the short term "shock" to the market with tax considerations. Why wouldn't democrats be for it if it can decrease Republican resistance to the idea and get it passed easier?

And, unemployment compensation cannot be confused with means tested welfare since it actually solves for simple poverty by solving for deleterious effects of Capitalism's natural rate of unemployment in a market friendly manner.

Democrats don't like allowing businesses to keep more of the money they earn. You know that, and it would nullify some of the so-called benefit you keep touting of more taxes paid by workers. In essence, you're shifting the tax burden from business to labor. Is that what you intend? And you can't change UC the way you want to and not have it become welfare.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Are you going to prove it? Or just mumble some more?

Whining ToddsterPatriot, my position relies upon the CBO's entire projections regarding the proposed “Raise the Wage” bill; you choose to ignore any of its portions that conflict with your opinions. Respectfully, Supposn

Where in a CBO report does it say, " the federal minimum wage rate is net beneficial to our economic and social welfare"?

Anywhere?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The CBO predicted 1.4 million jobs lost. Of those jobs the most will be people who are at the low end of the wage scale.

Blues Man, Congressional Budget Office’s, (CBO‘s) published projections for the House’s proposed “Raise the Rate” bill describe an act that would be an improvement of our nation’s economic and social wellbeing.

CBO’s projections for aggregate lower wage-rate workers and for their families of lower incomes, are, (proportional to their total incomes) substantially much greater. Those CBO’s projections include worker and members of lower income families that are employed or unemployed .

CBO’s projections are for 1,300,000 lesser USA persons in poverty and a 1/10 of a percent reduction of USA families' total incomes which are almost entire reductions from higher income families. That a proposal of net benefit to our nation's economic and social wellbeing.
Respectfully, Supposn
Refer to page 3, table 1, " Effects of Increases in the Federal Minimum Wage on Employment, Income, and Poverty, 2025"
within https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2019-07/CBO-55410-MinimumWage2019.pdf

Blues Man, Congressional Budget Office’s, (CBO‘s) published projections for the House’s proposed “Raise the Rate” bill describe an act that would be an improvement of our nation’s economic and social wellbeing.

Liar.

a 1/10 of a percent reduction of USA families' total incomes

But at least you admit it here.

Here's what Supposn calls an improvement of our nation’s economic and social wellbeing.
From page 2 of his own link.

Higher rates of joblessness, reduced business incomes, higher prices, reduced national output (that's GDP), a decline in the nations's stock of capital and a reduction of total real family income of $9 billion.

 

[Blues Man]

The CBO predicted 1.4 million jobs lost. Of those jobs the most will be people who are at the low end of the wage scale.

Blues Man, Congressional Budget Office’s, (CBO‘s) published projections for the House’s proposed “Raise the Rate” bill describe an act that would be an improvement of our nation’s economic and social wellbeing.

CBO’s projections for aggregate lower wage-rate workers and for their families of lower incomes, are, (proportional to their total incomes) substantially much greater. Those CBO’s projections include worker and members of lower income families that are employed or unemployed .

CBO’s projections are for 1,300,000 lesser USA persons in poverty and a 1/10 of a percent reduction of USA families' total incomes which are almost entire reductions from higher income families. That a proposal of net benefit to our nation's economic and social wellbeing.
Respectfully, Supposn
Refer to page 3, table 1, " Effects of Increases in the Federal Minimum Wage on Employment, Income, and Poverty, 2025"
within https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2019-07/CBO-55410-MinimumWage2019.pdf

Blues Man, Congressional Budget Office’s, (CBO‘s) published projections for the House’s proposed “Raise the Rate” bill describe an act that would be an improvement of our nation’s economic and social wellbeing.

Liar.

a 1/10 of a percent reduction of USA families' total incomes

But at least you admit it here.

View attachment 462967

Here's what Supposn calls an improvement of our nation’s economic and social wellbeing.
From page 2 of his own link.

Higher rates of joblessness, reduced business incomes, higher prices, reduced national output (that's GDP), a decline in the nations's stock of capital and a reduction of total real family income of $9 billion.

and The report also says that deficits will increase by 56 billion

 

[Supposn]

Whining ToddsterPatriot and Blues Man can’t handle the truth!!
Congressional Budget Office’s published projections regarding the proposed “Raise the Wage” bill describe a proposal net beneficial to our economic and social wellbeing.
Proportional to incomes, The Proposal’s particularly of greater financial benefit to USA’s aggregate lower wage rate worker and lower income families.
Respectfully, Supposn

Refer to page 3, table 1, " Effects of Increases in the Federal Minimum Wage on Employment, Income, and Poverty, 2025"
within https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2019-07/CBO-55410-MinimumWage2019.pdf

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Whining ToddsterPatriot and Blues Man can’t handle the truth!!
Congressional Budget Office’s published projections regarding the proposed “Raise the Wage” bill describe a proposal net beneficial to our economic and social wellbeing.
Proportional to incomes, The Proposal’s particularly of greater financial benefit to USA’s aggregate lower wage rate worker and lower income families.
Respectfully, Supposn

Refer to page 3, table 1, " Effects of Increases in the Federal Minimum Wage on Employment, Income, and Poverty, 2025"
within https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2019-07/CBO-55410-MinimumWage2019.pdf

On what page does it say it's "an improvement of our nation’s economic and social wellbeing"?

 

[danielpalos]

I don't need to put everything into 2 little boxes like you do.

Everyone you disagree with is a "right winger" and everyone you agree with is a "left winger"

You can't seem to realize that there are other options.

And I'm nt complaining about job losses at all. I am merely telling you what will happen if the MW is more than doubled but you refuse to believe it.......................................................

We know some business owners would rather cut jobs than simply pass on that price inflation to their customers. It is a short term problem since higher paid labor will create more in demand and generate more tax revenue in the long run.

What you don't understand is that a business can't just keep inflating prices because the consumer will always stop buying if they think the price is too high. So add higher prices and decreasing purchasing power and what do you get?

You get people spending less money

You are still special pleading since their competition has to do the same thing. And, minimum wage labor doubling their wage means more marginal propensity to consume. Since even the dollar menu won't double even if the minimum wage does, how are you reasoning that higher prices but increased purchasing power won't engender a multiplier effect?