15,000 empty apartments in Manhattan.

[sealybobo]

....

I'm grateful. I make $100,000 a year.
......

There is no "class warfare" no matter how badly the democrats want it.

Your shrink is doing a piss-poor job. You can't go half a day without gassing on about how 'rich' you think you are. You are pathologically shallow and insecure. What a poor fucking excuse for a human being.

If the rich lobby politicians to cut social programs so they can get tax cuts, that’s class warfare stupid boy.

If the rich in the 80s start hiring illegals to avoid paying American wages, that’s class warfare you idiot. This has cost the middle class billions and profited corporations billions every year fool.

If they send our highest paying manufacturing jobs to mexico, that’s class warfare dummy.

If they break unions, that’s class warfare

And now it’s all secretive because of citizens united.

So how did you start making good money, you are not that different than others, you were not union, so, I’m not seeing class warfare. Your brother according to you is doing well.

In America if you work hard and find a niche, you make money, your excuses are just that, excuses.

Ever been in sales? Well I’ve worked for many shitty companies. They’re business model is to hire 90% more salespeople than you think you need. Pay them 100% commission and watch all 100% of them work their asses for 8 months and watch 90% of them fail. Some right away, some in a month, some in 2, 3, 4-7 months and by month 8 you have the 10% you’re going to keep.

Then repeat and do it every 6 months. The 10% don’t mind because when the new people quit they get their accounts.

I made it to the 10%. I didn’t like this business model. But when people are looking for jobs and there aren’t any they’ll take the chance. I took this job right out of college during hw Bush’s shitty 4 years. I went back after the gw Great Recession and didn’t make it. But it led to this job luckily.

Also keep in mind it doesn’t look good if you bounce from job to job but in sales it’s almost unavoidable if you want to try to make more money and if you don’t succeed and get let go that looks bad on a job interview. So it’s easy to say just go find another better job. Good luck with that.

Ive seen first hand how sales got fucked with in the past 20 plus years. Just because I finally found a good job doesn’t mean I forgot.

Used to be in sales, I knew I was better and created my own business.

I tried starting my own business. It’s not for me. I commend you unless you had someone help you financially then I would commend them.

I find I’m happiest working for someone else. Salary, vacation days, commissions, 401k, sick day, they pay for rent and all my supplies. Printer is out of ink or paper? Not my problem.

And it would have been great owning my own business if I had 3 jobs a day. The toughest days were days where I didn’t have any jobs so I would prospect for new business. So I was working and not making anything. At my company Now when I’m prospecting, I’m being paid.

....

I'm grateful. I make $100,000 a year.
......

There is no "class warfare" no matter how badly the democrats want it.

Your shrink is doing a piss-poor job. You can't go half a day without gassing on about how 'rich' you think you are. You are pathologically shallow and insecure. What a poor fucking excuse for a human being.

If the rich lobby politicians to cut social programs so they can get tax cuts, that’s class warfare stupid boy.

If the rich in the 80s start hiring illegals to avoid paying American wages, that’s class warfare you idiot. This has cost the middle class billions and profited corporations billions every year fool.

If they send our highest paying manufacturing jobs to mexico, that’s class warfare dummy.

If they break unions, that’s class warfare

And now it’s all secretive because of citizens united.

So how did you start making good money, you are not that different than others, you were not union, so, I’m not seeing class warfare. Your brother according to you is doing well.

In America if you work hard and find a niche, you make money, your excuses are just that, excuses.

Ever been in sales? Well I’ve worked for many shitty companies. They’re business model is to hire 90% more salespeople than you think you need. Pay them 100% commission and watch all 100% of them work their asses for 8 months and watch 90% of them fail. Some right away, some in a month, some in 2, 3, 4-7 months and by month 8 you have the 10% you’re going to keep.

Then repeat and do it every 6 months. The 10% don’t mind because when the new people quit they get their accounts.

I made it to the 10%. I didn’t like this business model. But when people are looking for jobs and there aren’t any they’ll take the chance. I took this job right out of college during hw Bush’s shitty 4 years. I went back after the gw Great Recession and didn’t make it. But it led to this job luckily.

Also keep in mind it doesn’t look good if you bounce from job to job but in sales it’s almost unavoidable if you want to try to make more money and if you don’t succeed and get let go that looks bad on a job interview. So it’s easy to say just go find another better job. Good luck with that.

Ive seen first hand how sales got fucked with in the past 20 plus years. Just because I finally found a good job doesn’t mean I forgot.

Used to be in sales, I knew I was better and created my own business.

I tried starting my own business. It’s not for me. I commend you unless you had someone help you financially then I would commend them.

I find I’m happiest working for someone else. Salary, vacation days, commissions, 401k, sick day, they pay for rent and all my supplies. Printer is out of ink or paper? Not my problem.

And it would have been great owning my own business if I had 3 jobs a day. The toughest days were days where I didn’t have any jobs so I would prospect for new business. So I was working and not making anything. At my company Now when I’m prospecting, I’m being paid.

....

I'm grateful. I make $100,000 a year.
......

There is no "class warfare" no matter how badly the democrats want it.

Your shrink is doing a piss-poor job. You can't go half a day without gassing on about how 'rich' you think you are. You are pathologically shallow and insecure. What a poor fucking excuse for a human being.

If the rich lobby politicians to cut social programs so they can get tax cuts, that’s class warfare stupid boy.

If the rich in the 80s start hiring illegals to avoid paying American wages, that’s class warfare you idiot. This has cost the middle class billions and profited corporations billions every year fool.

If they send our highest paying manufacturing jobs to mexico, that’s class warfare dummy.

If they break unions, that’s class warfare

And now it’s all secretive because of citizens united.

So how did you start making good money, you are not that different than others, you were not union, so, I’m not seeing class warfare. Your brother according to you is doing well.

In America if you work hard and find a niche, you make money, your excuses are just that, excuses.

Ever been in sales? Well I’ve worked for many shitty companies. They’re business model is to hire 90% more salespeople than you think you need. Pay them 100% commission and watch all 100% of them work their asses for 8 months and watch 90% of them fail. Some right away, some in a month, some in 2, 3, 4-7 months and by month 8 you have the 10% you’re going to keep.

Then repeat and do it every 6 months. The 10% don’t mind because when the new people quit they get their accounts.

I made it to the 10%. I didn’t like this business model. But when people are looking for jobs and there aren’t any they’ll take the chance. I took this job right out of college during hw Bush’s shitty 4 years. I went back after the gw Great Recession and didn’t make it. But it led to this job luckily.

Also keep in mind it doesn’t look good if you bounce from job to job but in sales it’s almost unavoidable if you want to try to make more money and if you don’t succeed and get let go that looks bad on a job interview. So it’s easy to say just go find another better job. Good luck with that.

Ive seen first hand how sales got fucked with in the past 20 plus years. Just because I finally found a good job doesn’t mean I forgot.

Used to be in sales, I knew I was better and created my own business.

I tried starting my own business. It’s not for me. I commend you unless you had someone help you financially then I would commend them.

I find I’m happiest working for someone else. Salary, vacation days, commissions, 401k, sick day, they pay for rent and all my supplies. Printer is out of ink or paper? Not my problem.

And it would have been great owning my own business if I had 3 jobs a day. The toughest days were days where I didn’t have any jobs so I would prospect for new business. So I was working and not making anything. At my company Now when I’m prospecting, I’m being paid.

I preferred working in my own business. I had three companies and sold all three and now I work for a small company mostly because it is enjoyable and I don’t have the worries that
Go with owning my own.

Then why did you sell if you preferred working in your own business? Clearly you didn’t prefer it because you sold out and went to work for someone else.

 

[Papageorgio]

Who the hell wants to live in a city where the mayor and governor decide to send virus patients to nursing homes to die and infect more people.

What nonsense. Last thing anyone looking for a place to live worries about is some nursing homes.

Covid is well under controll in NYC for a few months now (more than you can generally say for United States) and the reason people are leaving Manhattan is because it's a city that never...oops never mind, Covid-19 has shut down the hustle, butsle and party that was the draw for so many. Real estate is still expensive, jobs are down and if all you are doing is stitting at home or going to the park then you can do that Upstate or in NJ too.

All the elderly have been exposed in NY. Because of the government. Also 2019 and 2020 the trend is leaving NYC, not moving there.

 

[Papageorgio]

....

I'm grateful. I make $100,000 a year.
......

There is no "class warfare" no matter how badly the democrats want it.

Your shrink is doing a piss-poor job. You can't go half a day without gassing on about how 'rich' you think you are. You are pathologically shallow and insecure. What a poor fucking excuse for a human being.

If the rich lobby politicians to cut social programs so they can get tax cuts, that’s class warfare stupid boy.

If the rich in the 80s start hiring illegals to avoid paying American wages, that’s class warfare you idiot. This has cost the middle class billions and profited corporations billions every year fool.

If they send our highest paying manufacturing jobs to mexico, that’s class warfare dummy.

If they break unions, that’s class warfare

And now it’s all secretive because of citizens united.

So how did you start making good money, you are not that different than others, you were not union, so, I’m not seeing class warfare. Your brother according to you is doing well.

In America if you work hard and find a niche, you make money, your excuses are just that, excuses.

Ever been in sales? Well I’ve worked for many shitty companies. They’re business model is to hire 90% more salespeople than you think you need. Pay them 100% commission and watch all 100% of them work their asses for 8 months and watch 90% of them fail. Some right away, some in a month, some in 2, 3, 4-7 months and by month 8 you have the 10% you’re going to keep.

Then repeat and do it every 6 months. The 10% don’t mind because when the new people quit they get their accounts.

I made it to the 10%. I didn’t like this business model. But when people are looking for jobs and there aren’t any they’ll take the chance. I took this job right out of college during hw Bush’s shitty 4 years. I went back after the gw Great Recession and didn’t make it. But it led to this job luckily.

Also keep in mind it doesn’t look good if you bounce from job to job but in sales it’s almost unavoidable if you want to try to make more money and if you don’t succeed and get let go that looks bad on a job interview. So it’s easy to say just go find another better job. Good luck with that.

Ive seen first hand how sales got fucked with in the past 20 plus years. Just because I finally found a good job doesn’t mean I forgot.

Used to be in sales, I knew I was better and created my own business.

I tried starting my own business. It’s not for me. I commend you unless you had someone help you financially then I would commend them.

I find I’m happiest working for someone else. Salary, vacation days, commissions, 401k, sick day, they pay for rent and all my supplies. Printer is out of ink or paper? Not my problem.

And it would have been great owning my own business if I had 3 jobs a day. The toughest days were days where I didn’t have any jobs so I would prospect for new business. So I was working and not making anything. At my company Now when I’m prospecting, I’m being paid.

....

I'm grateful. I make $100,000 a year.
......

There is no "class warfare" no matter how badly the democrats want it.

Your shrink is doing a piss-poor job. You can't go half a day without gassing on about how 'rich' you think you are. You are pathologically shallow and insecure. What a poor fucking excuse for a human being.

If the rich lobby politicians to cut social programs so they can get tax cuts, that’s class warfare stupid boy.

If the rich in the 80s start hiring illegals to avoid paying American wages, that’s class warfare you idiot. This has cost the middle class billions and profited corporations billions every year fool.

If they send our highest paying manufacturing jobs to mexico, that’s class warfare dummy.

If they break unions, that’s class warfare

And now it’s all secretive because of citizens united.

So how did you start making good money, you are not that different than others, you were not union, so, I’m not seeing class warfare. Your brother according to you is doing well.

In America if you work hard and find a niche, you make money, your excuses are just that, excuses.

Ever been in sales? Well I’ve worked for many shitty companies. They’re business model is to hire 90% more salespeople than you think you need. Pay them 100% commission and watch all 100% of them work their asses for 8 months and watch 90% of them fail. Some right away, some in a month, some in 2, 3, 4-7 months and by month 8 you have the 10% you’re going to keep.

Then repeat and do it every 6 months. The 10% don’t mind because when the new people quit they get their accounts.

I made it to the 10%. I didn’t like this business model. But when people are looking for jobs and there aren’t any they’ll take the chance. I took this job right out of college during hw Bush’s shitty 4 years. I went back after the gw Great Recession and didn’t make it. But it led to this job luckily.

Also keep in mind it doesn’t look good if you bounce from job to job but in sales it’s almost unavoidable if you want to try to make more money and if you don’t succeed and get let go that looks bad on a job interview. So it’s easy to say just go find another better job. Good luck with that.

Ive seen first hand how sales got fucked with in the past 20 plus years. Just because I finally found a good job doesn’t mean I forgot.

Used to be in sales, I knew I was better and created my own business.

I tried starting my own business. It’s not for me. I commend you unless you had someone help you financially then I would commend them.

I find I’m happiest working for someone else. Salary, vacation days, commissions, 401k, sick day, they pay for rent and all my supplies. Printer is out of ink or paper? Not my problem.

And it would have been great owning my own business if I had 3 jobs a day. The toughest days were days where I didn’t have any jobs so I would prospect for new business. So I was working and not making anything. At my company Now when I’m prospecting, I’m being paid.

....

I'm grateful. I make $100,000 a year.
......

There is no "class warfare" no matter how badly the democrats want it.

Your shrink is doing a piss-poor job. You can't go half a day without gassing on about how 'rich' you think you are. You are pathologically shallow and insecure. What a poor fucking excuse for a human being.

If the rich lobby politicians to cut social programs so they can get tax cuts, that’s class warfare stupid boy.

If the rich in the 80s start hiring illegals to avoid paying American wages, that’s class warfare you idiot. This has cost the middle class billions and profited corporations billions every year fool.

If they send our highest paying manufacturing jobs to mexico, that’s class warfare dummy.

If they break unions, that’s class warfare

And now it’s all secretive because of citizens united.

So how did you start making good money, you are not that different than others, you were not union, so, I’m not seeing class warfare. Your brother according to you is doing well.

In America if you work hard and find a niche, you make money, your excuses are just that, excuses.

Ever been in sales? Well I’ve worked for many shitty companies. They’re business model is to hire 90% more salespeople than you think you need. Pay them 100% commission and watch all 100% of them work their asses for 8 months and watch 90% of them fail. Some right away, some in a month, some in 2, 3, 4-7 months and by month 8 you have the 10% you’re going to keep.

Then repeat and do it every 6 months. The 10% don’t mind because when the new people quit they get their accounts.

I made it to the 10%. I didn’t like this business model. But when people are looking for jobs and there aren’t any they’ll take the chance. I took this job right out of college during hw Bush’s shitty 4 years. I went back after the gw Great Recession and didn’t make it. But it led to this job luckily.

Also keep in mind it doesn’t look good if you bounce from job to job but in sales it’s almost unavoidable if you want to try to make more money and if you don’t succeed and get let go that looks bad on a job interview. So it’s easy to say just go find another better job. Good luck with that.

Ive seen first hand how sales got fucked with in the past 20 plus years. Just because I finally found a good job doesn’t mean I forgot.

Used to be in sales, I knew I was better and created my own business.

I tried starting my own business. It’s not for me. I commend you unless you had someone help you financially then I would commend them.

I find I’m happiest working for someone else. Salary, vacation days, commissions, 401k, sick day, they pay for rent and all my supplies. Printer is out of ink or paper? Not my problem.

And it would have been great owning my own business if I had 3 jobs a day. The toughest days were days where I didn’t have any jobs so I would prospect for new business. So I was working and not making anything. At my company Now when I’m prospecting, I’m being paid.

I preferred working in my own business. I had three companies and sold all three and now I work for a small company mostly because it is enjoyable and I don’t have the worries that
Go with owning my own.

Then why did you sell if you preferred working in your own business? Clearly you didn’t prefer it because you sold out and went to work for someone else.

At the time of my life I enjoyed the pressure and me running it all. I’m over 60 and am ready to retire. I don’t want the responsibility at this time in my life. If I didn’t enjoy what I’m doing now, wouldn’t be working. I like working, I am just done with 70-80 hour work weeks and now I have time to develop other ideas I’m working on.

 

[candycorn]

Has the mayor figured out how to blame Trump yet ?

The number of empty rental apartments in Manhattan nearly tripled compared with last year, as more New Yorkers fled the city and prices declined.

There were more than 15,000 empty rental apartments in Manhattan in August, up from 5,600 a year ago, according to a report from Douglas Elliman and Miller Samuel. The inventory of empty units is the largest ever recorded since data started being collected 14 years ago, the report said.

Manhattan rental market plunges, leaving 15,000 empty apartments in August

Hopes for a rebound in the fall or the end of 2020 look increasingly unlikely. Although rental prices have come down, the discounts are not steep enough yet to lure new renters back to the city.

www.cnbc.com

Some people in Manhattan can afford multiple houses. It's an unfamiliar concept for most red states....unless the houses have wheels.
When the city locks down, there is little reason to continue living there and paying rent on an apartment. Once it opens back up completely, the city will once again be the envy of every red state low-life.

You mistakenly think that most Red State residents want what New York City has, Candy. They don't. They like living where they do. You know what they don't like? When liberals from places like New York and California move to a Red State and set about trying to destroy their new homes like they did their old ones.

Sure they do. We need to enlighten them.

That kind of cracks me up a bit. I'm more than willing to argue the facts, or discuss the topic with you, and yet dozens of times you have resorted to nothing more than name calling.

Now you want to enlighten me? Your current claims, are contradicted by your prior actions.

Enlighten? Might be too punitive a word. How about expose or increase awareness.

It should crack you up that one doofus on a message board pretends to know what "most Red State residents" want.

I personally think that the revolving door of poverty in most red states is there for the same reason that there is a revolving door of poverty in the urban ghettos in blue states if you want to have a serious discussion about it. And that reason is (in part) that a white youth in Slidell LA and a Black Youth in South Central have the same outlook on life. It is the 20 square blocks around your house and little else. So you set your sights on what works for those 20 square blocks. You're not exposed to other ideas; you're not exposed to other cultures; you're not exposed to the possibilities that exist. You're beaten down by your surroundings before you have a chance. Large cities like NY, LA, Miami, Philly, Chicago offer that exposure. Politics has little to do with it. I certainly don't expect red state losers to understand that not everything has a political bend to it--it is true that I went for a cheap laugh at the OP's expense because he is the epitome of a red state loser who thinks 9/11, OKC, JFK, Covid are all massive conspiracies.

 

[AntonToo]

Who the hell wants to live in a city where the mayor and governor decide to send virus patients to nursing homes to die and infect more people.

What nonsense. Last thing anyone looking for a place to live worries about is some nursing homes.

Covid is well under controll in NYC for a few months now (more than you can generally say for United States) and the reason people are leaving Manhattan is because it's a city that never...oops never mind, Covid-19 has shut down the hustle, butsle and party that was the draw for so many. Real estate is still expensive, jobs are down and if all you are doing is stitting at home or going to the park then you can do that Upstate or in NJ too.

All the elderly have been exposed in NY.

That's just not true, who is feeding to you these silly counterfactuals?

 

[Andylusion]

Has the mayor figured out how to blame Trump yet ?

The number of empty rental apartments in Manhattan nearly tripled compared with last year, as more New Yorkers fled the city and prices declined.

There were more than 15,000 empty rental apartments in Manhattan in August, up from 5,600 a year ago, according to a report from Douglas Elliman and Miller Samuel. The inventory of empty units is the largest ever recorded since data started being collected 14 years ago, the report said.

Manhattan rental market plunges, leaving 15,000 empty apartments in August

Hopes for a rebound in the fall or the end of 2020 look increasingly unlikely. Although rental prices have come down, the discounts are not steep enough yet to lure new renters back to the city.

www.cnbc.com

It is way too expensive to live in nyc. People who worked in nyc but now work from home have moved to places where their salaries go a lot further.

Shuli on the Howard stern show moved to Alabama. With what he makes he’s rich in Alabama. If you can work from home why live in a city where $100,000 a year is not a lot?

And whose fault is that?

You jack up taxes, jack up regulations, jack up housing policy, jack up the police so that crime is everywhere, which increases costs on the city.... and then you say "It's too expensive to live there" as if that just fell out of the sky randomly.

No it didn't. Bad policies caused this.

And by the way, they could have had thousands of well paying jobs in NYC when Amazon built an HQ there, but AOC drove them out. Brilliant.

Hey, if you want to live or do business in ny you have to pay. Otherwise go to Alabama. Use their ports and tear up their roads.

Well that's kind of my point. They are not, and they leaving.

People are leaving NYC. That's the point. This is true everywhere.

When France implemented their wealth tax... they said the same thing. "Hey, if you want to live and do business in France, you have to pay!"

and you know what happened????

Wealth tax is forcing 12,000 millionaires PER YEAR out of France

Edouard Philippe defended President Emmanuel Macrons' new tax break for the wealthiest, saying it is needed stem the increasing flow of the richest leaving France.

www.dailymail.co.uk

They left! They were packing up their wealthy, their businesses, and their families, and leaving.

Famously in Jamaica, when PM Manly passed all his socialist crap.... he said openly "There are six flights a day to Miami"... and people started taking the flights to Miami. They left.

You can't hurt the rich. Only yourself. It was poor people of Jamaica that end up dealing with the joblessness and high crime.

The rich left.

Same in NYC. The rich are leaving. The poor are stuck jobless, and victimized by the criminals.

So, yes.... they will leave.

Then don’t expect America to be great again. Not if you are middle class. The middle class is struggling big time. Compared to our parents most of you are lower middle class actually.

The middle class is getting smaller. If you are securly in the middle class and doing well and you’re ok with a 20% cut to your social security, vote republican.

If you are going to need your social security, you’re a fool being a republican.

I actually don't believe that America was ever not great. At least thus far. America has never ceased being great.

The only people who think that America has declined, are the fools who have never lived, or been elsewhere, or know people who live elsewhere.

I do. I've been to Europe. I know people who live in Europe right now. And if you think America is not better than Europe, or the rest of the world, you are crazy. You don't know what you are talking about.

People in Europe live lower standards of living, universally. Smaller houses, smaller cars, smaller appliances, less spending money, less entertainment.

There is no possible way to measure the standards of living in the rest of the world, and compare to the US, and not have the US be better.

Why do think we have millions of people trying to get into this country? It's one of the most baffling aspects of Left-wing contradictions, that you want open borders to let people freely come into the country, and at the same time claim the country is declining and everything is terrible, and America is racists and evil.

Those are mutually exclusive positions. People don't risk their lives, to get into places that are terrible.

The middle class is struggling big time. Compared to our parents most of you are lower middle class actually.

No, I don't buy that. You show me one person who walked the exact same path as their parents, and is worse off.

I'm not making the same money as my parents, but that's because I am not in the same career as my parents.

I have relatives, where their parents were wielders. Their son, became a wielder too. Their son is make more money than his parents did, when they were his age.

I know engineers, and they make more money in engineering than their parents who were engineers.

And as far as the standard of living.... no you are still crazy.

My standard of living today, is better than my parents when they were my age. By quite a bit too.

My house is bigger, than the house they had at my age. I have had central air conditioning since I was in college, in 1999. My parents didn't have air conditioning until they were in their late 50s. Microwaves, internet, computers, instapots. My parents didn't have cable TV until they were in their late 50s, and in fact, didn't even own a TV until they were in their late 40s.

I've had all of that, and smart phones, and GPS driving directions, and on and on and on.

We today, are miles and miles beyond where are parents were at the same age. You are crazy if you think otherwise. Absolutely crazy.

The poorest WORKING people today, have a higher standard of living, than the middle class of the 1970s. By a MASSIVE margin.

Now if you are living off welfare and unemployment, and not working consistently full time, then yeah, they are falling way behind, and need to get off their butts, and work for what they want.

But the poorest working people putting in full days work every day.... no they are way beyond where the middle class was in the 1970s, or even 1980s.

The middle class is getting smaller. If you are securly in the middle class and doing well and you’re ok with a 20% cut to your social security, vote republican.
If you are going to need your social security, you’re a fool being a republican.

Social Security was going broke before Trump was even running for office.

You are fool if your retirement plan is to depend on Social Security.

Before any of this Covid nonsense happened, SS was going broke. Before Trump was ever elected, SS paid out so little, that you were basically going to live in poverty until you die, if Social Security was your retirement plan.

Anyone who plans to retire on Social Security is an idiot. You need to be saving for your own retirement out of your own income, like everyone else should be doing.

Social Security is the most poverty creating program in US history. Don't be stupid. Save for retirement.

We don’t have to be worse than Europe. Maybe we’re still better but not as much as we were before Reagan bush and trump.

And when I say we’re not better than we were before I mean the middle class. The rich are doing great.

Half of me is working class and half is investor class. As a worker I disagree with you. As an investor I partially agree with you. And when I agree I certainly don’t agree on your suggested remedies.

Again, factually speaking, we are way better off after the 1980s, than before.

If you telling me that the working class, TODAY.... is worse off, than the working class of the 1970s.... or before.... you are crazy. You are factually incorrect sir.

We are way way way better off than the people in the 1970s or before.

The middle class TODAY... is better off than the middle class of the 1970s.

And yes, investors are better off too. You know who is an investor? Likely.... 70% of the population?

55% of people have investments in the stock market.
65% have property investments.
15% have pensions, which are in fact investments, typically in the stock market.

And there are millions with annuities, and those are typically invested in stocks too.

And by the way, there is a connection between investment and labor. Most jobs wouldn't exist without investment.

So while someone might claim "The investor class is doing well, but the working class is not".... really? Because without the investments, hundreds of millions of jobs wouldn't exist, and those workers would be far worse off.

Honestly I grew up in the 70s and 80s in metro Detroit. Back then a guy could graduate high school and go find a job that would support a family of 5. One income. One bread winner.

Today to do as well you have to go to college and how much does that cost? So blue collar are not better off today and back in my day college was $5000 a year. I worked in the summer and saved most of my tuition. Maybe my dad had to chip in $1000 a year so I didn’t need student loans.

And honestly, for years I had a college degree but wasn’t doing as well as my dad did. I am now but that is common now especially for millennials. First generation who won’t do better than their parents.

I may make more than my dad ever did but am I better off? Fuck no. My dad has great retirement benefits through ford. And a pension. He took the buy out.

Oh yea and me. I make $100k a year give or take now. Have for the past 5 years. I’m 49. So let’s say I’ve got to at least work till I’m 62 to collect social security and Medicare. If they let me retire with those things at 62 I will I don’t care how much I lose for retiring early.

BUT. If I would have went to work at ford when I graduated highschool at 17, I’d already be getting a 30 year pension 2 years ago. At the age of 47. So even though I’m balling and have no debt, I’m still going to have to work 15 more years than if I would have just taken that union job at ford.

plus i wouldn’t have spent that $20,000 on a bachelors degree.

If I only made $100k per yr I would be depressed.

Why should people who make $60k and have $100,000 in student loan debt vote republican? You probably like that th3 ceo makes 300x what they make right?

But you, if you really make more than me, you should vote republican. But if you don’t you shouldn’t.

Arent you that fat foreign guy? Maybe I’m confusing you with someone else?

I vote Republican because Democrats tell me that men may identity as women

Ha! I was just telling a guy name unkotare how they use gay to con poor and middle class Americans into voting republican. Without these wedge issues like guns, racism, abortion these people would have no business voting republican. Republicans are not pro labor. Period.

How so?

Because republicans are against employees unionizing. Their way brought wages down.

Because republicans won’t go after illegal employers. So they arent really trying to kick illegals out. A wall. Ha!

Because trumps fixes to nafta and trade with ch8na did nothing to help labor. And only american companies a little. Only enough for trump to claim a victory.

Youre being conned

Unions are stupid. Republicans are for lower taxes and fewer regulations. You’re uneducated by your own admission so please stop trying to sound smart.

Republicans are against paying labor more too. Driving wages down. How? By sending jobs overseas and hiring illegal workers

Not true at all. Fewer regulations equates to more business openings and expansion and more jobs. Trump brought jobs back and halted corporate inversions.

More jobs but lower paying.

But I’m not so against lower wages anymore. As long as it’s not my wages. You and I make more than the average american with two kids. I’m not worrying about them anymore

but remember you admitted that if you made what they all make, your be depressed. So why should they vote like you vote when you’re for lower wages for them?

lower pay?? how so?

Look at companies like Toyota and Honda Compared to ford and gm. More temps than full time employees.

That’s just one example.

Do you even have to ask?

Republicans applaud companies who’s CEOs make the most but employees make the least.

PROOF PLEASE--you just babbled..how about some facts and figures--FOR ONCE!!!!

Look it up

We have looked it up. There is no example of lower pay.

You show me the example of lower pay. You show me the wielder that in 1970 was earning $50/hour, and today is earning $10/hour.

There is no such example anywhere. None. Zero. Even adjusted for inflation, no such example.

We have looked it up. You are wrong. This is why we are asking you to look it up, so you can educate yourself on your false beliefs.

Ford scores higher in 6 areas dummy. Overall rating, career opportunpities, work life balance, senior management, culture and values and % recommended to a friend.

Big three workers make $27 hr Toyota $25.

Keep in mind Toyota only pays what they pay because if they didn’t their employees would unionize.

Engineers at ford make $37 hr Toyota engineers make $32

Ford has 3400 temp workers. I’m looking at an article about Toyota extending plant shutdown and will stop paying 5000 temps.

What does any of that have to do with anything?

You made the claim that people are paid less today, than they were yesterday.

Are you saying that Toyota Engineers were making $37/hour and now they are making $32 an hour?

I'm not asking you if some employees are choosing to work for a company that pays less money.

Which employee was making $37/hour yesterday, or last year, or last decade, and today is making $32/hour?

Unless they suck. I've known some engineers, that honestly were not worth $15/hour.

How much was Toyota paying engineers 30 years ago? Is more... or less... than how much engineers are paid today?

And honestly, Toyota Engineers are paid $32/hour? Oh my bleeding heart..... oh the horror....

You know that German automotive engineers in Germany right now, earn less than that?

Automotive Engineer Salary in Germany in 2024 | PayScale

The average salary for an Automotive Engineer in Germany is €58,172 in 2024. Visit PayScale to research automotive engineer salaries by city, experience, skill, employer and more.

www.payscale.com

Evidence my friend. Evidence. You are complaining about better working conditions than other first world countries offer.

Engineers come here from Europe, and earn more working for Toyota.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Compare/Ford-Motor-Company-vs-Toyota-North-America-EI_IE263-E3544.htm

View attachment 389136
I do not even believe you honestly.

Figures about pay scales are horribly easy to mislead with.

No two engineers are identical by any stretch. One engineer can have 10 years of experience, while another might have only 3 years of experience. Another engineer might have 15 years of experience, but in a field where there are dozens of engineers, while another engineer with only 5 years of experience might specialize in a field that few others do.

Just saying "well this group of engineers collectively is paid less or more than another group" is just ridiculous. You don't know what experience they have, what they specialize in, or anything.

They are not significantly paid less than people at Ford. If they were, no one would work there.

Overall, wages have gone up.... PERIOD. They have gone up, and what you posted doesn't contradict that.

We have the highest wages, and then highest standard of living in the world, and people need to be less spoiled, less complaining, and more grateful for what we have.

Was all this true on Obama's watch or only after Trump got into office?

I'm grateful. I make $100,000 a year.

I'm talking about these people: the median weekly earnings are $933, or about $48,516 per year.

Who are these people? Do you know any?

Medium income is $47,000 a year. That’s what I imagine most Americans are working with.

And even though it’s probably tough to raise a family on that, $47,000 isn’t that bad. I don’t think the masses should all be making more than that.

The more I talk to you guys the more I realize things probably aren’t as bad as I think. But I don’t like how labor no longer has a seat at the table. And I don’t want government cutting my social security no matter how much I make. I’m going to want that extra $300 a month when I’m retired. Cutting my social security 20% would not be cool and that’s what republicans want to do.

And before you deny it, don’t lie. Like yesterday trump said he doesn’t want to do away with pre existing conditions but we know that’s a fucking lie

In the end, you and I are doing well so fuck it right?

I hope he does away with the ban on pre-existing conditions.

Do you want affordable health insurance for 90% of the country or not? Yes or no, dude. Because you can't get affordable health care, while being forced to pay for people who don't buy health insurance.

I was working at a place some years bad, and there was a guy that canceled his insurance, and said he'll just get insurance if he gets sick.

See, this is another case, where because you can't see how it directly effects you, then you are fine with it.

But if your health insurance payment, had it itemized to show how much you are paying for your own policy, and how many paying for people who intentionally did not buy insurance, and then got sick, and now you have to cover the cost of their care.....

You yourself would be SCREAMING to have pre-existing condition clauses.

But I don’t like how labor no longer has a seat at the table.

Every company that has allowed labor to have a seat at the table, has imploded in on itself. Do you like employees losing their jobs?

Ask the people of Toyota or Honda, if they wish they had the seat at the table like those of Chrysler before they became a subsidiary of Fiat.

In the end, you and I are doing well so fuck it right?

The irony of that statement is that right-wingers routinely provide vastly more help than left-wingers, throughout the entire world, and especially in the US.

We routinely do far more to actually help people, than the left-wing. Left-wingers only demand that OTHER PEOPLE help the poor or sick.

I love preexisting conditions. You are a deplorable.

Imagine not having to get auto or home insurance but if an accident or damage occurs you can get the insurance afterward and be covered. What a happy and great place!

So if you lose your job with insurance the next insurance company should not cover your diabetes? Sorry, it’s a pre existing condition.

Ar3 you kidding?

That is up to your employer and what they negotiate with that carrier. But yes, that carrier should not have an obligation to do so, however, they likely will because they are making millions off that employer and most of the people who sign up won't have such conditions.

So let me ask you this. I have a family of four and knock on wood all healthy. I should pay the same as some guy with a family of six, who smokes, has diabetes and has a wife who is constantly at the doctor and kids too as he has so many? How is that equitable to me?

Because knock on wood don’t work. But they should reward non smokers or healthy people. That’s a great idea.

But they don’t. How about dem apples. System is broken.

Trump will fix it. Or I guess we’ll just keep the current system where you don’t only insure healthy people.

How bout this. Anyone with a pre existing can get Medicare.

Medicare is going broke right now. You want to jack up taxes on the lower and middle class to pay for it? How much more in taxes do you want to pay? 5% more? 10% more?

Ton of fraud in Medicaid. I d start there and I d get the administrators out of the way. Create a free market in healthcare as happened with LASIK. Now LASIK is very affordable due to market forces.

I know 5 people on disability. Of all of them, one truly deserves it. She got in an accident and she’s no right in the head. She was making good money she didn’t ask for or deserve her situation. The others are all losers. Or their health problems ar3 their own fault.

Bu5 one just told me she gets $1200 a month but he’s to pay $500 for all her healthcare so $700 probably gets eaten up with bills. I don’t know how she’s going to be able to continue living on her own. Financially she can’t afford to live here. She said her brother has a finished basement so eventually she’ll probably do that.

So each of these people is costing us $12,000 a year. Geez

So couple of things here. This is why we should not have government funding it at all.

As long as you have government giving out money, people are going to find a way to qualify for that money, and most are going to be people just abusing the system.

When I was working at the homeless shelter, the people who used our services, pretty much closely matched what you just said.

For every single 1 person who used our services, there were 4 others, just sucking up handouts.

But there were three key differences.

1. The people who gave money to the charity, were people who could afford to give money to the charity, and wanted to give money to the charity, and gave it by choice.

With Medicare, or Social Security, or Food Stamps, are any other government handout... people are forced to pay for it, whether they are able to or not.

Have not seen a tax return yet that had a "Can't afford to fund entitlements" that allowed you reduce how much you paid in taxes.

1.5.... I should also mention that charities routinely manage the money better, and it isn't used to pay for government union benefits, which honestly are insane.

2. People who really need charity, and use the charity, often work to get off charity. Meaning, that they don't just plan to live the rest of their lives, living off the hard work of other people.

People on government entitlements, think that's just fine. They plan out how to get as much money sucked out of the tax payers as possible. And if you let them, they'll live off the government until they die.

People are charity, who actually need it, don't do that. They would spend weeks, or a month, living at the shelter, until they found a job, and saved up enough money to get an apartment.

3. One of the reasons charities do better than government at helping people, is specifically because they don't waste resources forever on people who refuse to improve their lives.

At the shelter I was at, if you made no effort to get a job, and refused to take any of the free job-training courses, and refuse to join the job-placement program... you had about a month, and then you were required to leave.

There is no such thing as unlimited resources. The bed you are in, could be used by someone who really needs it, and could be really helped. So if you are not going to do anything but sit there and collect the hard work of others, you can leave, so someone who needs it can use that bed.

Even then, with rules limiting people abusing the system, we still had about 4 people just wasting time, for every 1 person who really needed it.

So what do we do about that person who doesn't have a hand?

She needs to learn something new, and start doing something productive. In the mean time, she need to get a roommate, or she needs to live with her family.

 

[Andylusion]

Has the mayor figured out how to blame Trump yet ?

The number of empty rental apartments in Manhattan nearly tripled compared with last year, as more New Yorkers fled the city and prices declined.

There were more than 15,000 empty rental apartments in Manhattan in August, up from 5,600 a year ago, according to a report from Douglas Elliman and Miller Samuel. The inventory of empty units is the largest ever recorded since data started being collected 14 years ago, the report said.

Manhattan rental market plunges, leaving 15,000 empty apartments in August

Hopes for a rebound in the fall or the end of 2020 look increasingly unlikely. Although rental prices have come down, the discounts are not steep enough yet to lure new renters back to the city.

www.cnbc.com

Some people in Manhattan can afford multiple houses. It's an unfamiliar concept for most red states....unless the houses have wheels.
When the city locks down, there is little reason to continue living there and paying rent on an apartment. Once it opens back up completely, the city will once again be the envy of every red state low-life.

You mistakenly think that most Red State residents want what New York City has, Candy. They don't. They like living where they do. You know what they don't like? When liberals from places like New York and California move to a Red State and set about trying to destroy their new homes like they did their old ones.

Sure they do. We need to enlighten them.

That kind of cracks me up a bit. I'm more than willing to argue the facts, or discuss the topic with you, and yet dozens of times you have resorted to nothing more than name calling.

Now you want to enlighten me? Your current claims, are contradicted by your prior actions.

Enlighten? Might be too punitive a word. How about expose or increase awareness.

It should crack you up that one doofus on a message board pretends to know what "most Red State residents" want.

I personally think that the revolving door of poverty in most red states is there for the same reason that there is a revolving door of poverty in the urban ghettos in blue states if you want to have a serious discussion about it. And that reason is (in part) that a white youth in Slidell LA and a Black Youth in South Central have the same outlook on life. It is the 20 square blocks around your house and little else. So you set your sights on what works for those 20 square blocks. You're not exposed to other ideas; you're not exposed to other cultures; you're not exposed to the possibilities that exist. You're beaten down by your surroundings before you have a chance. Large cities like NY, LA, Miami, Philly, Chicago offer that exposure. Politics has little to do with it. I certainly don't expect red state losers to understand that not everything has a political bend to it--it is true that I went for a cheap laugh at the OP's expense because he is the epitome of a red state loser who thinks 9/11, OKC, JFK, Covid are all massive conspiracies.

I would agree with that actually to some extent. But... it would seem as though your side... maybe not you personally, but your ideology, is what promotes such thing.

Even Thomas Sowell, to some extent, has researched and documented, pretty much what you just said.

He research black men and some women (of which there is a surprising number), who were stationed in Germany, and ended up marrying Germans and living in Germany.

Now Germany is far more "white" than America is. By wide margin too. To black kids growing up in Germany, there is no counter culture. There is no black culture. There is no black history month, nothing like any of that.

And what they find from these black kids growing up in an almost pure white culture is....... they do almost as well as any white German.

Why is that? No gangster rap. No defeatism. No "you can't succeed because you are black" mentality. They were not insulted for "acting white" because they had high grades, and were succeeding.

So what can we do about that?

Well there are a couple of things we can do about that.

First, we need to stop rewarding failure. What does that mean? It means if you don't pass the test, you fail the grade, and are kicked out of school.

We are likely the only country in the world, that actually believes you are "entitled" to an education. No one else believes that. Most of Europe doesn't believe that, and certainly no Asian countries believe that.

You fail... you leave. That's how that works. You go home. Good luck. In fact, in many countries like Finland and Japan, if you do not pass the entrance exam for high school, you don't go to high school.

You start kicking the kids out of school, who don't put in the effort to be there... people will start putting in the effort to be there.

Second, you need to end welfare and food stamps. One of the reasons people believe they can coast through life, and do as little as possible, is because we pay them to not work. We need to end that.

Again, you don't see that in most of the world. Denmark, Sweden, and so on, they don't have welfare. You don't work, you don't eat. You starve.

And what will this do? It will force people to work, and advance themselves. And when they start seeing that they can advance themselves, they'll make better choices, and see a better future.

This one specifically, is the most obvious to me of any concept. Because how can you expect a child to come the conclusion that working hard, and getting an education is important, when their parents are being paid to sit on the butt, at home, and do nothing?

Same by the way is true in red states, in poverty ridden areas. Same exact problem.

Cancel the welfare and food stamps. Cut the Medicaid illegal drug market.

The reason they see no hope and no future, and stay in poverty, is because they can. You love on welfare and food stamps, and never leave your home town that is dead..... yeah.... the future will look hopeless to you.

That's why we need to cut those handouts.... which will force them to move to where the work is, and get a job. And when they do that, things will start to look better.

 

[candycorn]

Has the mayor figured out how to blame Trump yet ?

The number of empty rental apartments in Manhattan nearly tripled compared with last year, as more New Yorkers fled the city and prices declined.

There were more than 15,000 empty rental apartments in Manhattan in August, up from 5,600 a year ago, according to a report from Douglas Elliman and Miller Samuel. The inventory of empty units is the largest ever recorded since data started being collected 14 years ago, the report said.

Manhattan rental market plunges, leaving 15,000 empty apartments in August

Hopes for a rebound in the fall or the end of 2020 look increasingly unlikely. Although rental prices have come down, the discounts are not steep enough yet to lure new renters back to the city.

www.cnbc.com

Some people in Manhattan can afford multiple houses. It's an unfamiliar concept for most red states....unless the houses have wheels.
When the city locks down, there is little reason to continue living there and paying rent on an apartment. Once it opens back up completely, the city will once again be the envy of every red state low-life.

You mistakenly think that most Red State residents want what New York City has, Candy. They don't. They like living where they do. You know what they don't like? When liberals from places like New York and California move to a Red State and set about trying to destroy their new homes like they did their old ones.

Sure they do. We need to enlighten them.

That kind of cracks me up a bit. I'm more than willing to argue the facts, or discuss the topic with you, and yet dozens of times you have resorted to nothing more than name calling.

Now you want to enlighten me? Your current claims, are contradicted by your prior actions.

Enlighten? Might be too punitive a word. How about expose or increase awareness.

It should crack you up that one doofus on a message board pretends to know what "most Red State residents" want.

I personally think that the revolving door of poverty in most red states is there for the same reason that there is a revolving door of poverty in the urban ghettos in blue states if you want to have a serious discussion about it. And that reason is (in part) that a white youth in Slidell LA and a Black Youth in South Central have the same outlook on life. It is the 20 square blocks around your house and little else. So you set your sights on what works for those 20 square blocks. You're not exposed to other ideas; you're not exposed to other cultures; you're not exposed to the possibilities that exist. You're beaten down by your surroundings before you have a chance. Large cities like NY, LA, Miami, Philly, Chicago offer that exposure. Politics has little to do with it. I certainly don't expect red state losers to understand that not everything has a political bend to it--it is true that I went for a cheap laugh at the OP's expense because he is the epitome of a red state loser who thinks 9/11, OKC, JFK, Covid are all massive conspiracies.

I would agree with that actually to some extent. But... it would seem as though your side... maybe not you personally, but your ideology, is what promotes such thing.

Even Thomas Sowell, to some extent, has researched and documented, pretty much what you just said.

He research black men and some women (of which there is a surprising number), who were stationed in Germany, and ended up marrying Germans and living in Germany.

Now Germany is far more "white" than America is. By wide margin too. To black kids growing up in Germany, there is no counter culture. There is no black culture. There is no black history month, nothing like any of that.

And what they find from these black kids growing up in an almost pure white culture is....... they do almost as well as any white German.

Why is that? No gangster rap. No defeatism. No "you can't succeed because you are black" mentality. They were not insulted for "acting white" because they had high grades, and were succeeding.

So what can we do about that?

Well there are a couple of things we can do about that.

First, we need to stop rewarding failure. What does that mean? It means if you don't pass the test, you fail the grade, and are kicked out of school.

We are likely the only country in the world, that actually believes you are "entitled" to an education. No one else believes that. Most of Europe doesn't believe that, and certainly no Asian countries believe that.

You fail... you leave. That's how that works. You go home. Good luck. In fact, in many countries like Finland and Japan, if you do not pass the entrance exam for high school, you don't go to high school.

You start kicking the kids out of school, who don't put in the effort to be there... people will start putting in the effort to be there.

Second, you need to end welfare and food stamps. One of the reasons people believe they can coast through life, and do as little as possible, is because we pay them to not work. We need to end that.

Again, you don't see that in most of the world. Denmark, Sweden, and so on, they don't have welfare. You don't work, you don't eat. You starve.

And what will this do? It will force people to work, and advance themselves. And when they start seeing that they can advance themselves, they'll make better choices, and see a better future.

This one specifically, is the most obvious to me of any concept. Because how can you expect a child to come the conclusion that working hard, and getting an education is important, when their parents are being paid to sit on the butt, at home, and do nothing?

Same by the way is true in red states, in poverty ridden areas. Same exact problem.

Cancel the welfare and food stamps. Cut the Medicaid illegal drug market.

The reason they see no hope and no future, and stay in poverty, is because they can. You love on welfare and food stamps, and never leave your home town that is dead..... yeah.... the future will look hopeless to you.

That's why we need to cut those handouts.... which will force them to move to where the work is, and get a job. And when they do that, things will start to look better.

I'd rather have the problems associated with welfare than people dying in the streets because they couldn't cut it myself. That's just me.

 

[Andylusion]

Has the mayor figured out how to blame Trump yet ?

The number of empty rental apartments in Manhattan nearly tripled compared with last year, as more New Yorkers fled the city and prices declined.

There were more than 15,000 empty rental apartments in Manhattan in August, up from 5,600 a year ago, according to a report from Douglas Elliman and Miller Samuel. The inventory of empty units is the largest ever recorded since data started being collected 14 years ago, the report said.

Manhattan rental market plunges, leaving 15,000 empty apartments in August

Hopes for a rebound in the fall or the end of 2020 look increasingly unlikely. Although rental prices have come down, the discounts are not steep enough yet to lure new renters back to the city.

www.cnbc.com

Some people in Manhattan can afford multiple houses. It's an unfamiliar concept for most red states....unless the houses have wheels.
When the city locks down, there is little reason to continue living there and paying rent on an apartment. Once it opens back up completely, the city will once again be the envy of every red state low-life.

You mistakenly think that most Red State residents want what New York City has, Candy. They don't. They like living where they do. You know what they don't like? When liberals from places like New York and California move to a Red State and set about trying to destroy their new homes like they did their old ones.

Sure they do. We need to enlighten them.

That kind of cracks me up a bit. I'm more than willing to argue the facts, or discuss the topic with you, and yet dozens of times you have resorted to nothing more than name calling.

Now you want to enlighten me? Your current claims, are contradicted by your prior actions.

Enlighten? Might be too punitive a word. How about expose or increase awareness.

It should crack you up that one doofus on a message board pretends to know what "most Red State residents" want.

I personally think that the revolving door of poverty in most red states is there for the same reason that there is a revolving door of poverty in the urban ghettos in blue states if you want to have a serious discussion about it. And that reason is (in part) that a white youth in Slidell LA and a Black Youth in South Central have the same outlook on life. It is the 20 square blocks around your house and little else. So you set your sights on what works for those 20 square blocks. You're not exposed to other ideas; you're not exposed to other cultures; you're not exposed to the possibilities that exist. You're beaten down by your surroundings before you have a chance. Large cities like NY, LA, Miami, Philly, Chicago offer that exposure. Politics has little to do with it. I certainly don't expect red state losers to understand that not everything has a political bend to it--it is true that I went for a cheap laugh at the OP's expense because he is the epitome of a red state loser who thinks 9/11, OKC, JFK, Covid are all massive conspiracies.

I would agree with that actually to some extent. But... it would seem as though your side... maybe not you personally, but your ideology, is what promotes such thing.

Even Thomas Sowell, to some extent, has researched and documented, pretty much what you just said.

He research black men and some women (of which there is a surprising number), who were stationed in Germany, and ended up marrying Germans and living in Germany.

Now Germany is far more "white" than America is. By wide margin too. To black kids growing up in Germany, there is no counter culture. There is no black culture. There is no black history month, nothing like any of that.

And what they find from these black kids growing up in an almost pure white culture is....... they do almost as well as any white German.

Why is that? No gangster rap. No defeatism. No "you can't succeed because you are black" mentality. They were not insulted for "acting white" because they had high grades, and were succeeding.

So what can we do about that?

Well there are a couple of things we can do about that.

First, we need to stop rewarding failure. What does that mean? It means if you don't pass the test, you fail the grade, and are kicked out of school.

We are likely the only country in the world, that actually believes you are "entitled" to an education. No one else believes that. Most of Europe doesn't believe that, and certainly no Asian countries believe that.

You fail... you leave. That's how that works. You go home. Good luck. In fact, in many countries like Finland and Japan, if you do not pass the entrance exam for high school, you don't go to high school.

You start kicking the kids out of school, who don't put in the effort to be there... people will start putting in the effort to be there.

Second, you need to end welfare and food stamps. One of the reasons people believe they can coast through life, and do as little as possible, is because we pay them to not work. We need to end that.

Again, you don't see that in most of the world. Denmark, Sweden, and so on, they don't have welfare. You don't work, you don't eat. You starve.

And what will this do? It will force people to work, and advance themselves. And when they start seeing that they can advance themselves, they'll make better choices, and see a better future.

This one specifically, is the most obvious to me of any concept. Because how can you expect a child to come the conclusion that working hard, and getting an education is important, when their parents are being paid to sit on the butt, at home, and do nothing?

Same by the way is true in red states, in poverty ridden areas. Same exact problem.

Cancel the welfare and food stamps. Cut the Medicaid illegal drug market.

The reason they see no hope and no future, and stay in poverty, is because they can. You love on welfare and food stamps, and never leave your home town that is dead..... yeah.... the future will look hopeless to you.

That's why we need to cut those handouts.... which will force them to move to where the work is, and get a job. And when they do that, things will start to look better.

I'd rather have the problems associated with welfare than people dying in the streets because they couldn't cut it myself. That's just me.

Denmark doesn't have welfare. They don't have people dying in the streets.

In the 1990s, we cut welfare and food stamp roles by 3/4ths, and we didn't have people dying in the streets.

They got jobs, and worked. One of the reasons the 1990s economy was good.

Your system, has people dying in the streets. Because you put them in a hopeless situation, they turn to gangs and drugs, and they over dose and kill each other.

Welfare is in fact, killing people. Not me doing that. Your ideology that is killing people.

There's a reason why every section 8 housing, consistently, 100% of the time, results in high crime and murder, and drug use.

 

[candycorn]

Has the mayor figured out how to blame Trump yet ?

The number of empty rental apartments in Manhattan nearly tripled compared with last year, as more New Yorkers fled the city and prices declined.

There were more than 15,000 empty rental apartments in Manhattan in August, up from 5,600 a year ago, according to a report from Douglas Elliman and Miller Samuel. The inventory of empty units is the largest ever recorded since data started being collected 14 years ago, the report said.

Manhattan rental market plunges, leaving 15,000 empty apartments in August

Hopes for a rebound in the fall or the end of 2020 look increasingly unlikely. Although rental prices have come down, the discounts are not steep enough yet to lure new renters back to the city.

www.cnbc.com

Some people in Manhattan can afford multiple houses. It's an unfamiliar concept for most red states....unless the houses have wheels.
When the city locks down, there is little reason to continue living there and paying rent on an apartment. Once it opens back up completely, the city will once again be the envy of every red state low-life.

You mistakenly think that most Red State residents want what New York City has, Candy. They don't. They like living where they do. You know what they don't like? When liberals from places like New York and California move to a Red State and set about trying to destroy their new homes like they did their old ones.

Sure they do. We need to enlighten them.

That kind of cracks me up a bit. I'm more than willing to argue the facts, or discuss the topic with you, and yet dozens of times you have resorted to nothing more than name calling.

Now you want to enlighten me? Your current claims, are contradicted by your prior actions.

Enlighten? Might be too punitive a word. How about expose or increase awareness.

It should crack you up that one doofus on a message board pretends to know what "most Red State residents" want.

I personally think that the revolving door of poverty in most red states is there for the same reason that there is a revolving door of poverty in the urban ghettos in blue states if you want to have a serious discussion about it. And that reason is (in part) that a white youth in Slidell LA and a Black Youth in South Central have the same outlook on life. It is the 20 square blocks around your house and little else. So you set your sights on what works for those 20 square blocks. You're not exposed to other ideas; you're not exposed to other cultures; you're not exposed to the possibilities that exist. You're beaten down by your surroundings before you have a chance. Large cities like NY, LA, Miami, Philly, Chicago offer that exposure. Politics has little to do with it. I certainly don't expect red state losers to understand that not everything has a political bend to it--it is true that I went for a cheap laugh at the OP's expense because he is the epitome of a red state loser who thinks 9/11, OKC, JFK, Covid are all massive conspiracies.

I would agree with that actually to some extent. But... it would seem as though your side... maybe not you personally, but your ideology, is what promotes such thing.

Even Thomas Sowell, to some extent, has researched and documented, pretty much what you just said.

He research black men and some women (of which there is a surprising number), who were stationed in Germany, and ended up marrying Germans and living in Germany.

Now Germany is far more "white" than America is. By wide margin too. To black kids growing up in Germany, there is no counter culture. There is no black culture. There is no black history month, nothing like any of that.

And what they find from these black kids growing up in an almost pure white culture is....... they do almost as well as any white German.

Why is that? No gangster rap. No defeatism. No "you can't succeed because you are black" mentality. They were not insulted for "acting white" because they had high grades, and were succeeding.

So what can we do about that?

Well there are a couple of things we can do about that.

First, we need to stop rewarding failure. What does that mean? It means if you don't pass the test, you fail the grade, and are kicked out of school.

We are likely the only country in the world, that actually believes you are "entitled" to an education. No one else believes that. Most of Europe doesn't believe that, and certainly no Asian countries believe that.

You fail... you leave. That's how that works. You go home. Good luck. In fact, in many countries like Finland and Japan, if you do not pass the entrance exam for high school, you don't go to high school.

You start kicking the kids out of school, who don't put in the effort to be there... people will start putting in the effort to be there.

Second, you need to end welfare and food stamps. One of the reasons people believe they can coast through life, and do as little as possible, is because we pay them to not work. We need to end that.

Again, you don't see that in most of the world. Denmark, Sweden, and so on, they don't have welfare. You don't work, you don't eat. You starve.

And what will this do? It will force people to work, and advance themselves. And when they start seeing that they can advance themselves, they'll make better choices, and see a better future.

This one specifically, is the most obvious to me of any concept. Because how can you expect a child to come the conclusion that working hard, and getting an education is important, when their parents are being paid to sit on the butt, at home, and do nothing?

Same by the way is true in red states, in poverty ridden areas. Same exact problem.

Cancel the welfare and food stamps. Cut the Medicaid illegal drug market.

The reason they see no hope and no future, and stay in poverty, is because they can. You love on welfare and food stamps, and never leave your home town that is dead..... yeah.... the future will look hopeless to you.

That's why we need to cut those handouts.... which will force them to move to where the work is, and get a job. And when they do that, things will start to look better.

I'd rather have the problems associated with welfare than people dying in the streets because they couldn't cut it myself. That's just me.

Denmark doesn't have welfare. They don't have people dying in the streets.

In the 1990s, we cut welfare and food stamp roles by 3/4ths, and we didn't have people dying in the streets.

They got jobs, and worked. One of the reasons the 1990s economy was good.

Your system, has people dying in the streets. Because you put them in a hopeless situation, they turn to gangs and drugs, and they over dose and kill each other.

Welfare is in fact, killing people. Not me doing that. Your ideology that is killing people.

There's a reason why every section 8 housing, consistently, 100% of the time, results in high crime and murder, and drug use.

A number of sources on line I found in just a cursory search say the exact opposite is true:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2018-01-25/denmarks-social-policies-generally-remain-a-model-say-experts

What makes life so worth living in Denmark are the country's strong social policies, say experts. From cradle to grave, the Danish state knows how to help its people: maternity or paternity leave — parents can decide to split it up — is a full year. Nurseries and then schools are both guaranteed and paid for by the municipality. University education is tuition free and students can apply for living expenses. Families with children receive a generous allowance, regardless of income level. Even elderly care, such as senior centers, adapted transport and meals-on-wheels programs are paid for the by the state.

 

[InstantOn]

Yes. They do. For a long time, they were limiting those rent controls to older apartments buildings, built during a specific time frame, but more recently with Andrew Cuomo and Blasio, they have expanded it.

The new apartment building we lived in during the late '80s and '90s in Manhattan was subject to rent controls which the owner accepted in exchange for a tax abatement. Sometimes this would bring the allowed rent over the true market rate. When that happened, the owner would offer concessions of one or two months for a lease renewal.

 

[blastoff]

Anyone know if NYC still has apartment rent control policies?

Never could figure out how city government could force property owners to charge rents below what the market would naturally determine.

Yes. They do. For a long time, they were limiting those rent controls to older apartments buildings, built during a specific time frame, but more recently with Andrew Cuomo and Blasio, they have expanded it.

Governor Cuomo Signs Sweeping Rent Control and Rent Stabilization Reforms into Law - CityLand

Image Credit: New York Senate. The law places limits on various mechanisms through which landlords of rent-regulated units can raise rent and provides many other protections for tenants. On June 14, 2019, Governor Andrew M. Cuomo signed into law the Housing Stability and Tenant Protection Act of...

www.citylandnyc.org

Cuomo did this, and the results were predictable and swift.

Thanks.

Still boggles the mind how government can force property owners to charge rental rates dreamed up by some friggin’ bureaucrat.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Anyone know if NYC still has apartment rent control policies?

Never could figure out how city government could force property owners to charge rents below what the market would naturally determine.

Yep.

It is the People's Republic of NYC, after all.

 

[InstantOn]

Anyone know if NYC still has apartment rent control policies?

Never could figure out how city government could force property owners to charge rents below what the market would naturally determine.

Yes. They do. For a long time, they were limiting those rent controls to older apartments buildings, built during a specific time frame, but more recently with Andrew Cuomo and Blasio, they have expanded it.

Governor Cuomo Signs Sweeping Rent Control and Rent Stabilization Reforms into Law - CityLand

Image Credit: New York Senate. The law places limits on various mechanisms through which landlords of rent-regulated units can raise rent and provides many other protections for tenants. On June 14, 2019, Governor Andrew M. Cuomo signed into law the Housing Stability and Tenant Protection Act of...

www.citylandnyc.org

Cuomo did this, and the results were predictable and swift.

Thanks.

Still boggles the mind how government can force property owners to charge rental rates dreamed up by some friggin’ bureaucrat.

They don't tell property owners how much they can charge but rather how much (%) they can raise controlled rents each year.

 

[sealybobo]

Has the mayor figured out how to blame Trump yet ?

The number of empty rental apartments in Manhattan nearly tripled compared with last year, as more New Yorkers fled the city and prices declined.

There were more than 15,000 empty rental apartments in Manhattan in August, up from 5,600 a year ago, according to a report from Douglas Elliman and Miller Samuel. The inventory of empty units is the largest ever recorded since data started being collected 14 years ago, the report said.

Manhattan rental market plunges, leaving 15,000 empty apartments in August

Hopes for a rebound in the fall or the end of 2020 look increasingly unlikely. Although rental prices have come down, the discounts are not steep enough yet to lure new renters back to the city.

www.cnbc.com

It is way too expensive to live in nyc. People who worked in nyc but now work from home have moved to places where their salaries go a lot further.

Shuli on the Howard stern show moved to Alabama. With what he makes he’s rich in Alabama. If you can work from home why live in a city where $100,000 a year is not a lot?

And whose fault is that?

You jack up taxes, jack up regulations, jack up housing policy, jack up the police so that crime is everywhere, which increases costs on the city.... and then you say "It's too expensive to live there" as if that just fell out of the sky randomly.

No it didn't. Bad policies caused this.

And by the way, they could have had thousands of well paying jobs in NYC when Amazon built an HQ there, but AOC drove them out. Brilliant.

Hey, if you want to live or do business in ny you have to pay. Otherwise go to Alabama. Use their ports and tear up their roads.

Well that's kind of my point. They are not, and they leaving.

People are leaving NYC. That's the point. This is true everywhere.

When France implemented their wealth tax... they said the same thing. "Hey, if you want to live and do business in France, you have to pay!"

and you know what happened????

Wealth tax is forcing 12,000 millionaires PER YEAR out of France

Edouard Philippe defended President Emmanuel Macrons' new tax break for the wealthiest, saying it is needed stem the increasing flow of the richest leaving France.

www.dailymail.co.uk

They left! They were packing up their wealthy, their businesses, and their families, and leaving.

Famously in Jamaica, when PM Manly passed all his socialist crap.... he said openly "There are six flights a day to Miami"... and people started taking the flights to Miami. They left.

You can't hurt the rich. Only yourself. It was poor people of Jamaica that end up dealing with the joblessness and high crime.

The rich left.

Same in NYC. The rich are leaving. The poor are stuck jobless, and victimized by the criminals.

So, yes.... they will leave.

Then don’t expect America to be great again. Not if you are middle class. The middle class is struggling big time. Compared to our parents most of you are lower middle class actually.

The middle class is getting smaller. If you are securly in the middle class and doing well and you’re ok with a 20% cut to your social security, vote republican.

If you are going to need your social security, you’re a fool being a republican.

I actually don't believe that America was ever not great. At least thus far. America has never ceased being great.

The only people who think that America has declined, are the fools who have never lived, or been elsewhere, or know people who live elsewhere.

I do. I've been to Europe. I know people who live in Europe right now. And if you think America is not better than Europe, or the rest of the world, you are crazy. You don't know what you are talking about.

People in Europe live lower standards of living, universally. Smaller houses, smaller cars, smaller appliances, less spending money, less entertainment.

There is no possible way to measure the standards of living in the rest of the world, and compare to the US, and not have the US be better.

Why do think we have millions of people trying to get into this country? It's one of the most baffling aspects of Left-wing contradictions, that you want open borders to let people freely come into the country, and at the same time claim the country is declining and everything is terrible, and America is racists and evil.

Those are mutually exclusive positions. People don't risk their lives, to get into places that are terrible.

The middle class is struggling big time. Compared to our parents most of you are lower middle class actually.

No, I don't buy that. You show me one person who walked the exact same path as their parents, and is worse off.

I'm not making the same money as my parents, but that's because I am not in the same career as my parents.

I have relatives, where their parents were wielders. Their son, became a wielder too. Their son is make more money than his parents did, when they were his age.

I know engineers, and they make more money in engineering than their parents who were engineers.

And as far as the standard of living.... no you are still crazy.

My standard of living today, is better than my parents when they were my age. By quite a bit too.

My house is bigger, than the house they had at my age. I have had central air conditioning since I was in college, in 1999. My parents didn't have air conditioning until they were in their late 50s. Microwaves, internet, computers, instapots. My parents didn't have cable TV until they were in their late 50s, and in fact, didn't even own a TV until they were in their late 40s.

I've had all of that, and smart phones, and GPS driving directions, and on and on and on.

We today, are miles and miles beyond where are parents were at the same age. You are crazy if you think otherwise. Absolutely crazy.

The poorest WORKING people today, have a higher standard of living, than the middle class of the 1970s. By a MASSIVE margin.

Now if you are living off welfare and unemployment, and not working consistently full time, then yeah, they are falling way behind, and need to get off their butts, and work for what they want.

But the poorest working people putting in full days work every day.... no they are way beyond where the middle class was in the 1970s, or even 1980s.

The middle class is getting smaller. If you are securly in the middle class and doing well and you’re ok with a 20% cut to your social security, vote republican.
If you are going to need your social security, you’re a fool being a republican.

Social Security was going broke before Trump was even running for office.

You are fool if your retirement plan is to depend on Social Security.

Before any of this Covid nonsense happened, SS was going broke. Before Trump was ever elected, SS paid out so little, that you were basically going to live in poverty until you die, if Social Security was your retirement plan.

Anyone who plans to retire on Social Security is an idiot. You need to be saving for your own retirement out of your own income, like everyone else should be doing.

Social Security is the most poverty creating program in US history. Don't be stupid. Save for retirement.

We don’t have to be worse than Europe. Maybe we’re still better but not as much as we were before Reagan bush and trump.

And when I say we’re not better than we were before I mean the middle class. The rich are doing great.

Half of me is working class and half is investor class. As a worker I disagree with you. As an investor I partially agree with you. And when I agree I certainly don’t agree on your suggested remedies.

Again, factually speaking, we are way better off after the 1980s, than before.

If you telling me that the working class, TODAY.... is worse off, than the working class of the 1970s.... or before.... you are crazy. You are factually incorrect sir.

We are way way way better off than the people in the 1970s or before.

The middle class TODAY... is better off than the middle class of the 1970s.

And yes, investors are better off too. You know who is an investor? Likely.... 70% of the population?

55% of people have investments in the stock market.
65% have property investments.
15% have pensions, which are in fact investments, typically in the stock market.

And there are millions with annuities, and those are typically invested in stocks too.

And by the way, there is a connection between investment and labor. Most jobs wouldn't exist without investment.

So while someone might claim "The investor class is doing well, but the working class is not".... really? Because without the investments, hundreds of millions of jobs wouldn't exist, and those workers would be far worse off.

Honestly I grew up in the 70s and 80s in metro Detroit. Back then a guy could graduate high school and go find a job that would support a family of 5. One income. One bread winner.

Today to do as well you have to go to college and how much does that cost? So blue collar are not better off today and back in my day college was $5000 a year. I worked in the summer and saved most of my tuition. Maybe my dad had to chip in $1000 a year so I didn’t need student loans.

And honestly, for years I had a college degree but wasn’t doing as well as my dad did. I am now but that is common now especially for millennials. First generation who won’t do better than their parents.

I may make more than my dad ever did but am I better off? Fuck no. My dad has great retirement benefits through ford. And a pension. He took the buy out.

Oh yea and me. I make $100k a year give or take now. Have for the past 5 years. I’m 49. So let’s say I’ve got to at least work till I’m 62 to collect social security and Medicare. If they let me retire with those things at 62 I will I don’t care how much I lose for retiring early.

BUT. If I would have went to work at ford when I graduated highschool at 17, I’d already be getting a 30 year pension 2 years ago. At the age of 47. So even though I’m balling and have no debt, I’m still going to have to work 15 more years than if I would have just taken that union job at ford.

plus i wouldn’t have spent that $20,000 on a bachelors degree.

If I only made $100k per yr I would be depressed.

Why should people who make $60k and have $100,000 in student loan debt vote republican? You probably like that th3 ceo makes 300x what they make right?

But you, if you really make more than me, you should vote republican. But if you don’t you shouldn’t.

Arent you that fat foreign guy? Maybe I’m confusing you with someone else?

I vote Republican because Democrats tell me that men may identity as women

Ha! I was just telling a guy name unkotare how they use gay to con poor and middle class Americans into voting republican. Without these wedge issues like guns, racism, abortion these people would have no business voting republican. Republicans are not pro labor. Period.

How so?

Because republicans are against employees unionizing. Their way brought wages down.

Because republicans won’t go after illegal employers. So they arent really trying to kick illegals out. A wall. Ha!

Because trumps fixes to nafta and trade with ch8na did nothing to help labor. And only american companies a little. Only enough for trump to claim a victory.

Youre being conned

Unions are stupid. Republicans are for lower taxes and fewer regulations. You’re uneducated by your own admission so please stop trying to sound smart.

Republicans are against paying labor more too. Driving wages down. How? By sending jobs overseas and hiring illegal workers

Not true at all. Fewer regulations equates to more business openings and expansion and more jobs. Trump brought jobs back and halted corporate inversions.

More jobs but lower paying.

But I’m not so against lower wages anymore. As long as it’s not my wages. You and I make more than the average american with two kids. I’m not worrying about them anymore

but remember you admitted that if you made what they all make, your be depressed. So why should they vote like you vote when you’re for lower wages for them?

lower pay?? how so?

Look at companies like Toyota and Honda Compared to ford and gm. More temps than full time employees.

That’s just one example.

Do you even have to ask?

Republicans applaud companies who’s CEOs make the most but employees make the least.

PROOF PLEASE--you just babbled..how about some facts and figures--FOR ONCE!!!!

Look it up

We have looked it up. There is no example of lower pay.

You show me the example of lower pay. You show me the wielder that in 1970 was earning $50/hour, and today is earning $10/hour.

There is no such example anywhere. None. Zero. Even adjusted for inflation, no such example.

We have looked it up. You are wrong. This is why we are asking you to look it up, so you can educate yourself on your false beliefs.

Ford scores higher in 6 areas dummy. Overall rating, career opportunpities, work life balance, senior management, culture and values and % recommended to a friend.

Big three workers make $27 hr Toyota $25.

Keep in mind Toyota only pays what they pay because if they didn’t their employees would unionize.

Engineers at ford make $37 hr Toyota engineers make $32

Ford has 3400 temp workers. I’m looking at an article about Toyota extending plant shutdown and will stop paying 5000 temps.

What does any of that have to do with anything?

You made the claim that people are paid less today, than they were yesterday.

Are you saying that Toyota Engineers were making $37/hour and now they are making $32 an hour?

I'm not asking you if some employees are choosing to work for a company that pays less money.

Which employee was making $37/hour yesterday, or last year, or last decade, and today is making $32/hour?

Unless they suck. I've known some engineers, that honestly were not worth $15/hour.

How much was Toyota paying engineers 30 years ago? Is more... or less... than how much engineers are paid today?

And honestly, Toyota Engineers are paid $32/hour? Oh my bleeding heart..... oh the horror....

You know that German automotive engineers in Germany right now, earn less than that?

Automotive Engineer Salary in Germany in 2024 | PayScale

The average salary for an Automotive Engineer in Germany is €58,172 in 2024. Visit PayScale to research automotive engineer salaries by city, experience, skill, employer and more.

www.payscale.com

Evidence my friend. Evidence. You are complaining about better working conditions than other first world countries offer.

Engineers come here from Europe, and earn more working for Toyota.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Compare/Ford-Motor-Company-vs-Toyota-North-America-EI_IE263-E3544.htm

View attachment 389136
I do not even believe you honestly.

Figures about pay scales are horribly easy to mislead with.

No two engineers are identical by any stretch. One engineer can have 10 years of experience, while another might have only 3 years of experience. Another engineer might have 15 years of experience, but in a field where there are dozens of engineers, while another engineer with only 5 years of experience might specialize in a field that few others do.

Just saying "well this group of engineers collectively is paid less or more than another group" is just ridiculous. You don't know what experience they have, what they specialize in, or anything.

They are not significantly paid less than people at Ford. If they were, no one would work there.

Overall, wages have gone up.... PERIOD. They have gone up, and what you posted doesn't contradict that.

We have the highest wages, and then highest standard of living in the world, and people need to be less spoiled, less complaining, and more grateful for what we have.

Was all this true on Obama's watch or only after Trump got into office?

I'm grateful. I make $100,000 a year.

I'm talking about these people: the median weekly earnings are $933, or about $48,516 per year.

Who are these people? Do you know any?

Medium income is $47,000 a year. That’s what I imagine most Americans are working with.

And even though it’s probably tough to raise a family on that, $47,000 isn’t that bad. I don’t think the masses should all be making more than that.

The more I talk to you guys the more I realize things probably aren’t as bad as I think. But I don’t like how labor no longer has a seat at the table. And I don’t want government cutting my social security no matter how much I make. I’m going to want that extra $300 a month when I’m retired. Cutting my social security 20% would not be cool and that’s what republicans want to do.

And before you deny it, don’t lie. Like yesterday trump said he doesn’t want to do away with pre existing conditions but we know that’s a fucking lie

In the end, you and I are doing well so fuck it right?

I hope he does away with the ban on pre-existing conditions.

Do you want affordable health insurance for 90% of the country or not? Yes or no, dude. Because you can't get affordable health care, while being forced to pay for people who don't buy health insurance.

I was working at a place some years bad, and there was a guy that canceled his insurance, and said he'll just get insurance if he gets sick.

See, this is another case, where because you can't see how it directly effects you, then you are fine with it.

But if your health insurance payment, had it itemized to show how much you are paying for your own policy, and how many paying for people who intentionally did not buy insurance, and then got sick, and now you have to cover the cost of their care.....

You yourself would be SCREAMING to have pre-existing condition clauses.

But I don’t like how labor no longer has a seat at the table.

Every company that has allowed labor to have a seat at the table, has imploded in on itself. Do you like employees losing their jobs?

Ask the people of Toyota or Honda, if they wish they had the seat at the table like those of Chrysler before they became a subsidiary of Fiat.

In the end, you and I are doing well so fuck it right?

The irony of that statement is that right-wingers routinely provide vastly more help than left-wingers, throughout the entire world, and especially in the US.

We routinely do far more to actually help people, than the left-wing. Left-wingers only demand that OTHER PEOPLE help the poor or sick.

I love preexisting conditions. You are a deplorable.

Imagine not having to get auto or home insurance but if an accident or damage occurs you can get the insurance afterward and be covered. What a happy and great place!

So if you lose your job with insurance the next insurance company should not cover your diabetes? Sorry, it’s a pre existing condition.

Ar3 you kidding?

That is up to your employer and what they negotiate with that carrier. But yes, that carrier should not have an obligation to do so, however, they likely will because they are making millions off that employer and most of the people who sign up won't have such conditions.

So let me ask you this. I have a family of four and knock on wood all healthy. I should pay the same as some guy with a family of six, who smokes, has diabetes and has a wife who is constantly at the doctor and kids too as he has so many? How is that equitable to me?

Because knock on wood don’t work. But they should reward non smokers or healthy people. That’s a great idea.

But they don’t. How about dem apples. System is broken.

Trump will fix it. Or I guess we’ll just keep the current system where you don’t only insure healthy people.

How bout this. Anyone with a pre existing can get Medicare.

Medicare is going broke right now. You want to jack up taxes on the lower and middle class to pay for it? How much more in taxes do you want to pay? 5% more? 10% more?

Ton of fraud in Medicaid. I d start there and I d get the administrators out of the way. Create a free market in healthcare as happened with LASIK. Now LASIK is very affordable due to market forces.

I know 5 people on disability. Of all of them, one truly deserves it. She got in an accident and she’s no right in the head. She was making good money she didn’t ask for or deserve her situation. The others are all losers. Or their health problems ar3 their own fault.

Bu5 one just told me she gets $1200 a month but he’s to pay $500 for all her healthcare so $700 probably gets eaten up with bills. I don’t know how she’s going to be able to continue living on her own. Financially she can’t afford to live here. She said her brother has a finished basement so eventually she’ll probably do that.

So each of these people is costing us $12,000 a year. Geez

So couple of things here. This is why we should not have government funding it at all.

As long as you have government giving out money, people are going to find a way to qualify for that money, and most are going to be people just abusing the system.

When I was working at the homeless shelter, the people who used our services, pretty much closely matched what you just said.

For every single 1 person who used our services, there were 4 others, just sucking up handouts.

But there were three key differences.

1. The people who gave money to the charity, were people who could afford to give money to the charity, and wanted to give money to the charity, and gave it by choice.

With Medicare, or Social Security, or Food Stamps, are any other government handout... people are forced to pay for it, whether they are able to or not.

Have not seen a tax return yet that had a "Can't afford to fund entitlements" that allowed you reduce how much you paid in taxes.

1.5.... I should also mention that charities routinely manage the money better, and it isn't used to pay for government union benefits, which honestly are insane.

2. People who really need charity, and use the charity, often work to get off charity. Meaning, that they don't just plan to live the rest of their lives, living off the hard work of other people.

People on government entitlements, think that's just fine. They plan out how to get as much money sucked out of the tax payers as possible. And if you let them, they'll live off the government until they die.

People are charity, who actually need it, don't do that. They would spend weeks, or a month, living at the shelter, until they found a job, and saved up enough money to get an apartment.

3. One of the reasons charities do better than government at helping people, is specifically because they don't waste resources forever on people who refuse to improve their lives.

At the shelter I was at, if you made no effort to get a job, and refused to take any of the free job-training courses, and refuse to join the job-placement program... you had about a month, and then you were required to leave.

There is no such thing as unlimited resources. The bed you are in, could be used by someone who really needs it, and could be really helped. So if you are not going to do anything but sit there and collect the hard work of others, you can leave, so someone who needs it can use that bed.

Even then, with rules limiting people abusing the system, we still had about 4 people just wasting time, for every 1 person who really needed it.

So what do we do about that person who doesn't have a hand?

She needs to learn something new, and start doing something productive. In the mean time, she need to get a roommate, or she needs to live with her family.

I notice Most every person on welfare I know says “hey we paI’d into it” referring to the taxes They have paid during the time they did work.

I like the social safety nets being there but I don’t like to see someone who’s 300 plus pounds on it. I feel like they did it to themselves. So we’re paying for idiots. Sort of like how you pay more because treating cancer costs so much but you don’t smoke. I get it.

 

[Andylusion]

Has the mayor figured out how to blame Trump yet ?

The number of empty rental apartments in Manhattan nearly tripled compared with last year, as more New Yorkers fled the city and prices declined.

There were more than 15,000 empty rental apartments in Manhattan in August, up from 5,600 a year ago, according to a report from Douglas Elliman and Miller Samuel. The inventory of empty units is the largest ever recorded since data started being collected 14 years ago, the report said.

Manhattan rental market plunges, leaving 15,000 empty apartments in August

Hopes for a rebound in the fall or the end of 2020 look increasingly unlikely. Although rental prices have come down, the discounts are not steep enough yet to lure new renters back to the city.

www.cnbc.com

It is way too expensive to live in nyc. People who worked in nyc but now work from home have moved to places where their salaries go a lot further.

Shuli on the Howard stern show moved to Alabama. With what he makes he’s rich in Alabama. If you can work from home why live in a city where $100,000 a year is not a lot?

And whose fault is that?

You jack up taxes, jack up regulations, jack up housing policy, jack up the police so that crime is everywhere, which increases costs on the city.... and then you say "It's too expensive to live there" as if that just fell out of the sky randomly.

No it didn't. Bad policies caused this.

And by the way, they could have had thousands of well paying jobs in NYC when Amazon built an HQ there, but AOC drove them out. Brilliant.

Hey, if you want to live or do business in ny you have to pay. Otherwise go to Alabama. Use their ports and tear up their roads.

Well that's kind of my point. They are not, and they leaving.

People are leaving NYC. That's the point. This is true everywhere.

When France implemented their wealth tax... they said the same thing. "Hey, if you want to live and do business in France, you have to pay!"

and you know what happened????

Wealth tax is forcing 12,000 millionaires PER YEAR out of France

Edouard Philippe defended President Emmanuel Macrons' new tax break for the wealthiest, saying it is needed stem the increasing flow of the richest leaving France.

www.dailymail.co.uk

They left! They were packing up their wealthy, their businesses, and their families, and leaving.

Famously in Jamaica, when PM Manly passed all his socialist crap.... he said openly "There are six flights a day to Miami"... and people started taking the flights to Miami. They left.

You can't hurt the rich. Only yourself. It was poor people of Jamaica that end up dealing with the joblessness and high crime.

The rich left.

Same in NYC. The rich are leaving. The poor are stuck jobless, and victimized by the criminals.

So, yes.... they will leave.

Then don’t expect America to be great again. Not if you are middle class. The middle class is struggling big time. Compared to our parents most of you are lower middle class actually.

The middle class is getting smaller. If you are securly in the middle class and doing well and you’re ok with a 20% cut to your social security, vote republican.

If you are going to need your social security, you’re a fool being a republican.

I actually don't believe that America was ever not great. At least thus far. America has never ceased being great.

The only people who think that America has declined, are the fools who have never lived, or been elsewhere, or know people who live elsewhere.

I do. I've been to Europe. I know people who live in Europe right now. And if you think America is not better than Europe, or the rest of the world, you are crazy. You don't know what you are talking about.

People in Europe live lower standards of living, universally. Smaller houses, smaller cars, smaller appliances, less spending money, less entertainment.

There is no possible way to measure the standards of living in the rest of the world, and compare to the US, and not have the US be better.

Why do think we have millions of people trying to get into this country? It's one of the most baffling aspects of Left-wing contradictions, that you want open borders to let people freely come into the country, and at the same time claim the country is declining and everything is terrible, and America is racists and evil.

Those are mutually exclusive positions. People don't risk their lives, to get into places that are terrible.

The middle class is struggling big time. Compared to our parents most of you are lower middle class actually.

No, I don't buy that. You show me one person who walked the exact same path as their parents, and is worse off.

I'm not making the same money as my parents, but that's because I am not in the same career as my parents.

I have relatives, where their parents were wielders. Their son, became a wielder too. Their son is make more money than his parents did, when they were his age.

I know engineers, and they make more money in engineering than their parents who were engineers.

And as far as the standard of living.... no you are still crazy.

My standard of living today, is better than my parents when they were my age. By quite a bit too.

My house is bigger, than the house they had at my age. I have had central air conditioning since I was in college, in 1999. My parents didn't have air conditioning until they were in their late 50s. Microwaves, internet, computers, instapots. My parents didn't have cable TV until they were in their late 50s, and in fact, didn't even own a TV until they were in their late 40s.

I've had all of that, and smart phones, and GPS driving directions, and on and on and on.

We today, are miles and miles beyond where are parents were at the same age. You are crazy if you think otherwise. Absolutely crazy.

The poorest WORKING people today, have a higher standard of living, than the middle class of the 1970s. By a MASSIVE margin.

Now if you are living off welfare and unemployment, and not working consistently full time, then yeah, they are falling way behind, and need to get off their butts, and work for what they want.

But the poorest working people putting in full days work every day.... no they are way beyond where the middle class was in the 1970s, or even 1980s.

The middle class is getting smaller. If you are securly in the middle class and doing well and you’re ok with a 20% cut to your social security, vote republican.
If you are going to need your social security, you’re a fool being a republican.

Social Security was going broke before Trump was even running for office.

You are fool if your retirement plan is to depend on Social Security.

Before any of this Covid nonsense happened, SS was going broke. Before Trump was ever elected, SS paid out so little, that you were basically going to live in poverty until you die, if Social Security was your retirement plan.

Anyone who plans to retire on Social Security is an idiot. You need to be saving for your own retirement out of your own income, like everyone else should be doing.

Social Security is the most poverty creating program in US history. Don't be stupid. Save for retirement.

We don’t have to be worse than Europe. Maybe we’re still better but not as much as we were before Reagan bush and trump.

And when I say we’re not better than we were before I mean the middle class. The rich are doing great.

Half of me is working class and half is investor class. As a worker I disagree with you. As an investor I partially agree with you. And when I agree I certainly don’t agree on your suggested remedies.

Again, factually speaking, we are way better off after the 1980s, than before.

If you telling me that the working class, TODAY.... is worse off, than the working class of the 1970s.... or before.... you are crazy. You are factually incorrect sir.

We are way way way better off than the people in the 1970s or before.

The middle class TODAY... is better off than the middle class of the 1970s.

And yes, investors are better off too. You know who is an investor? Likely.... 70% of the population?

55% of people have investments in the stock market.
65% have property investments.
15% have pensions, which are in fact investments, typically in the stock market.

And there are millions with annuities, and those are typically invested in stocks too.

And by the way, there is a connection between investment and labor. Most jobs wouldn't exist without investment.

So while someone might claim "The investor class is doing well, but the working class is not".... really? Because without the investments, hundreds of millions of jobs wouldn't exist, and those workers would be far worse off.

Honestly I grew up in the 70s and 80s in metro Detroit. Back then a guy could graduate high school and go find a job that would support a family of 5. One income. One bread winner.

Today to do as well you have to go to college and how much does that cost? So blue collar are not better off today and back in my day college was $5000 a year. I worked in the summer and saved most of my tuition. Maybe my dad had to chip in $1000 a year so I didn’t need student loans.

And honestly, for years I had a college degree but wasn’t doing as well as my dad did. I am now but that is common now especially for millennials. First generation who won’t do better than their parents.

I may make more than my dad ever did but am I better off? Fuck no. My dad has great retirement benefits through ford. And a pension. He took the buy out.

Oh yea and me. I make $100k a year give or take now. Have for the past 5 years. I’m 49. So let’s say I’ve got to at least work till I’m 62 to collect social security and Medicare. If they let me retire with those things at 62 I will I don’t care how much I lose for retiring early.

BUT. If I would have went to work at ford when I graduated highschool at 17, I’d already be getting a 30 year pension 2 years ago. At the age of 47. So even though I’m balling and have no debt, I’m still going to have to work 15 more years than if I would have just taken that union job at ford.

plus i wouldn’t have spent that $20,000 on a bachelors degree.

If I only made $100k per yr I would be depressed.

Why should people who make $60k and have $100,000 in student loan debt vote republican? You probably like that th3 ceo makes 300x what they make right?

But you, if you really make more than me, you should vote republican. But if you don’t you shouldn’t.

Arent you that fat foreign guy? Maybe I’m confusing you with someone else?

I vote Republican because Democrats tell me that men may identity as women

Ha! I was just telling a guy name unkotare how they use gay to con poor and middle class Americans into voting republican. Without these wedge issues like guns, racism, abortion these people would have no business voting republican. Republicans are not pro labor. Period.

How so?

Because republicans are against employees unionizing. Their way brought wages down.

Because republicans won’t go after illegal employers. So they arent really trying to kick illegals out. A wall. Ha!

Because trumps fixes to nafta and trade with ch8na did nothing to help labor. And only american companies a little. Only enough for trump to claim a victory.

Youre being conned

Unions are stupid. Republicans are for lower taxes and fewer regulations. You’re uneducated by your own admission so please stop trying to sound smart.

Republicans are against paying labor more too. Driving wages down. How? By sending jobs overseas and hiring illegal workers

Not true at all. Fewer regulations equates to more business openings and expansion and more jobs. Trump brought jobs back and halted corporate inversions.

More jobs but lower paying.

But I’m not so against lower wages anymore. As long as it’s not my wages. You and I make more than the average american with two kids. I’m not worrying about them anymore

but remember you admitted that if you made what they all make, your be depressed. So why should they vote like you vote when you’re for lower wages for them?

lower pay?? how so?

Look at companies like Toyota and Honda Compared to ford and gm. More temps than full time employees.

That’s just one example.

Do you even have to ask?

Republicans applaud companies who’s CEOs make the most but employees make the least.

PROOF PLEASE--you just babbled..how about some facts and figures--FOR ONCE!!!!

Look it up

We have looked it up. There is no example of lower pay.

You show me the example of lower pay. You show me the wielder that in 1970 was earning $50/hour, and today is earning $10/hour.

There is no such example anywhere. None. Zero. Even adjusted for inflation, no such example.

We have looked it up. You are wrong. This is why we are asking you to look it up, so you can educate yourself on your false beliefs.

Ford scores higher in 6 areas dummy. Overall rating, career opportunpities, work life balance, senior management, culture and values and % recommended to a friend.

Big three workers make $27 hr Toyota $25.

Keep in mind Toyota only pays what they pay because if they didn’t their employees would unionize.

Engineers at ford make $37 hr Toyota engineers make $32

Ford has 3400 temp workers. I’m looking at an article about Toyota extending plant shutdown and will stop paying 5000 temps.

What does any of that have to do with anything?

You made the claim that people are paid less today, than they were yesterday.

Are you saying that Toyota Engineers were making $37/hour and now they are making $32 an hour?

I'm not asking you if some employees are choosing to work for a company that pays less money.

Which employee was making $37/hour yesterday, or last year, or last decade, and today is making $32/hour?

Unless they suck. I've known some engineers, that honestly were not worth $15/hour.

How much was Toyota paying engineers 30 years ago? Is more... or less... than how much engineers are paid today?

And honestly, Toyota Engineers are paid $32/hour? Oh my bleeding heart..... oh the horror....

You know that German automotive engineers in Germany right now, earn less than that?

Automotive Engineer Salary in Germany in 2024 | PayScale

The average salary for an Automotive Engineer in Germany is €58,172 in 2024. Visit PayScale to research automotive engineer salaries by city, experience, skill, employer and more.

www.payscale.com

Evidence my friend. Evidence. You are complaining about better working conditions than other first world countries offer.

Engineers come here from Europe, and earn more working for Toyota.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Compare/Ford-Motor-Company-vs-Toyota-North-America-EI_IE263-E3544.htm

View attachment 389136
I do not even believe you honestly.

Figures about pay scales are horribly easy to mislead with.

No two engineers are identical by any stretch. One engineer can have 10 years of experience, while another might have only 3 years of experience. Another engineer might have 15 years of experience, but in a field where there are dozens of engineers, while another engineer with only 5 years of experience might specialize in a field that few others do.

Just saying "well this group of engineers collectively is paid less or more than another group" is just ridiculous. You don't know what experience they have, what they specialize in, or anything.

They are not significantly paid less than people at Ford. If they were, no one would work there.

Overall, wages have gone up.... PERIOD. They have gone up, and what you posted doesn't contradict that.

We have the highest wages, and then highest standard of living in the world, and people need to be less spoiled, less complaining, and more grateful for what we have.

Was all this true on Obama's watch or only after Trump got into office?

I'm grateful. I make $100,000 a year.

I'm talking about these people: the median weekly earnings are $933, or about $48,516 per year.

Who are these people? Do you know any?

Medium income is $47,000 a year. That’s what I imagine most Americans are working with.

And even though it’s probably tough to raise a family on that, $47,000 isn’t that bad. I don’t think the masses should all be making more than that.

The more I talk to you guys the more I realize things probably aren’t as bad as I think. But I don’t like how labor no longer has a seat at the table. And I don’t want government cutting my social security no matter how much I make. I’m going to want that extra $300 a month when I’m retired. Cutting my social security 20% would not be cool and that’s what republicans want to do.

And before you deny it, don’t lie. Like yesterday trump said he doesn’t want to do away with pre existing conditions but we know that’s a fucking lie

In the end, you and I are doing well so fuck it right?

I hope he does away with the ban on pre-existing conditions.

Do you want affordable health insurance for 90% of the country or not? Yes or no, dude. Because you can't get affordable health care, while being forced to pay for people who don't buy health insurance.

I was working at a place some years bad, and there was a guy that canceled his insurance, and said he'll just get insurance if he gets sick.

See, this is another case, where because you can't see how it directly effects you, then you are fine with it.

But if your health insurance payment, had it itemized to show how much you are paying for your own policy, and how many paying for people who intentionally did not buy insurance, and then got sick, and now you have to cover the cost of their care.....

You yourself would be SCREAMING to have pre-existing condition clauses.

But I don’t like how labor no longer has a seat at the table.

Every company that has allowed labor to have a seat at the table, has imploded in on itself. Do you like employees losing their jobs?

Ask the people of Toyota or Honda, if they wish they had the seat at the table like those of Chrysler before they became a subsidiary of Fiat.

In the end, you and I are doing well so fuck it right?

The irony of that statement is that right-wingers routinely provide vastly more help than left-wingers, throughout the entire world, and especially in the US.

We routinely do far more to actually help people, than the left-wing. Left-wingers only demand that OTHER PEOPLE help the poor or sick.

I love preexisting conditions. You are a deplorable.

Imagine not having to get auto or home insurance but if an accident or damage occurs you can get the insurance afterward and be covered. What a happy and great place!

So if you lose your job with insurance the next insurance company should not cover your diabetes? Sorry, it’s a pre existing condition.

Ar3 you kidding?

That is up to your employer and what they negotiate with that carrier. But yes, that carrier should not have an obligation to do so, however, they likely will because they are making millions off that employer and most of the people who sign up won't have such conditions.

So let me ask you this. I have a family of four and knock on wood all healthy. I should pay the same as some guy with a family of six, who smokes, has diabetes and has a wife who is constantly at the doctor and kids too as he has so many? How is that equitable to me?

Because knock on wood don’t work. But they should reward non smokers or healthy people. That’s a great idea.

But they don’t. How about dem apples. System is broken.

Trump will fix it. Or I guess we’ll just keep the current system where you don’t only insure healthy people.

How bout this. Anyone with a pre existing can get Medicare.

Medicare is going broke right now. You want to jack up taxes on the lower and middle class to pay for it? How much more in taxes do you want to pay? 5% more? 10% more?

Ton of fraud in Medicaid. I d start there and I d get the administrators out of the way. Create a free market in healthcare as happened with LASIK. Now LASIK is very affordable due to market forces.

I know 5 people on disability. Of all of them, one truly deserves it. She got in an accident and she’s no right in the head. She was making good money she didn’t ask for or deserve her situation. The others are all losers. Or their health problems ar3 their own fault.

Bu5 one just told me she gets $1200 a month but he’s to pay $500 for all her healthcare so $700 probably gets eaten up with bills. I don’t know how she’s going to be able to continue living on her own. Financially she can’t afford to live here. She said her brother has a finished basement so eventually she’ll probably do that.

So each of these people is costing us $12,000 a year. Geez

So couple of things here. This is why we should not have government funding it at all.

As long as you have government giving out money, people are going to find a way to qualify for that money, and most are going to be people just abusing the system.

When I was working at the homeless shelter, the people who used our services, pretty much closely matched what you just said.

For every single 1 person who used our services, there were 4 others, just sucking up handouts.

But there were three key differences.

1. The people who gave money to the charity, were people who could afford to give money to the charity, and wanted to give money to the charity, and gave it by choice.

With Medicare, or Social Security, or Food Stamps, are any other government handout... people are forced to pay for it, whether they are able to or not.

Have not seen a tax return yet that had a "Can't afford to fund entitlements" that allowed you reduce how much you paid in taxes.

1.5.... I should also mention that charities routinely manage the money better, and it isn't used to pay for government union benefits, which honestly are insane.

2. People who really need charity, and use the charity, often work to get off charity. Meaning, that they don't just plan to live the rest of their lives, living off the hard work of other people.

People on government entitlements, think that's just fine. They plan out how to get as much money sucked out of the tax payers as possible. And if you let them, they'll live off the government until they die.

People are charity, who actually need it, don't do that. They would spend weeks, or a month, living at the shelter, until they found a job, and saved up enough money to get an apartment.

3. One of the reasons charities do better than government at helping people, is specifically because they don't waste resources forever on people who refuse to improve their lives.

At the shelter I was at, if you made no effort to get a job, and refused to take any of the free job-training courses, and refuse to join the job-placement program... you had about a month, and then you were required to leave.

There is no such thing as unlimited resources. The bed you are in, could be used by someone who really needs it, and could be really helped. So if you are not going to do anything but sit there and collect the hard work of others, you can leave, so someone who needs it can use that bed.

Even then, with rules limiting people abusing the system, we still had about 4 people just wasting time, for every 1 person who really needed it.

So what do we do about that person who doesn't have a hand?

She needs to learn something new, and start doing something productive. In the mean time, she need to get a roommate, or she needs to live with her family.

I notice Most every person on welfare I know says “hey we paI’d into it” referring to the taxes They have paid during the time they did work.

I like the social safety nets being there but I don’t like to see someone who’s 300 plus pounds on it. I feel like they did it to themselves. So we’re paying for idiots. Sort of like how you pay more because treating cancer costs so much but you don’t smoke. I get it.

Well of course. Every single person has a justification for their actions. Whether those justifications are logical or insane, everyone has a reason to justify what they are doing.

Human beings are masters at self-rationalization.

This is why the real solution is to simply not have the safety net. Leave it to charity. It's harder to justify living off the hard work of others, when you are walking around able bodied in a shelter with people who are incapacitated.

And charities can spot people making up excuses for just being lazy.

 

[Andylusion]

Has the mayor figured out how to blame Trump yet ?

The number of empty rental apartments in Manhattan nearly tripled compared with last year, as more New Yorkers fled the city and prices declined.

There were more than 15,000 empty rental apartments in Manhattan in August, up from 5,600 a year ago, according to a report from Douglas Elliman and Miller Samuel. The inventory of empty units is the largest ever recorded since data started being collected 14 years ago, the report said.

Manhattan rental market plunges, leaving 15,000 empty apartments in August

Hopes for a rebound in the fall or the end of 2020 look increasingly unlikely. Although rental prices have come down, the discounts are not steep enough yet to lure new renters back to the city.

www.cnbc.com

Some people in Manhattan can afford multiple houses. It's an unfamiliar concept for most red states....unless the houses have wheels.
When the city locks down, there is little reason to continue living there and paying rent on an apartment. Once it opens back up completely, the city will once again be the envy of every red state low-life.

You mistakenly think that most Red State residents want what New York City has, Candy. They don't. They like living where they do. You know what they don't like? When liberals from places like New York and California move to a Red State and set about trying to destroy their new homes like they did their old ones.

Sure they do. We need to enlighten them.

That kind of cracks me up a bit. I'm more than willing to argue the facts, or discuss the topic with you, and yet dozens of times you have resorted to nothing more than name calling.

Now you want to enlighten me? Your current claims, are contradicted by your prior actions.

Enlighten? Might be too punitive a word. How about expose or increase awareness.

It should crack you up that one doofus on a message board pretends to know what "most Red State residents" want.

I personally think that the revolving door of poverty in most red states is there for the same reason that there is a revolving door of poverty in the urban ghettos in blue states if you want to have a serious discussion about it. And that reason is (in part) that a white youth in Slidell LA and a Black Youth in South Central have the same outlook on life. It is the 20 square blocks around your house and little else. So you set your sights on what works for those 20 square blocks. You're not exposed to other ideas; you're not exposed to other cultures; you're not exposed to the possibilities that exist. You're beaten down by your surroundings before you have a chance. Large cities like NY, LA, Miami, Philly, Chicago offer that exposure. Politics has little to do with it. I certainly don't expect red state losers to understand that not everything has a political bend to it--it is true that I went for a cheap laugh at the OP's expense because he is the epitome of a red state loser who thinks 9/11, OKC, JFK, Covid are all massive conspiracies.

I would agree with that actually to some extent. But... it would seem as though your side... maybe not you personally, but your ideology, is what promotes such thing.

Even Thomas Sowell, to some extent, has researched and documented, pretty much what you just said.

He research black men and some women (of which there is a surprising number), who were stationed in Germany, and ended up marrying Germans and living in Germany.

Now Germany is far more "white" than America is. By wide margin too. To black kids growing up in Germany, there is no counter culture. There is no black culture. There is no black history month, nothing like any of that.

And what they find from these black kids growing up in an almost pure white culture is....... they do almost as well as any white German.

Why is that? No gangster rap. No defeatism. No "you can't succeed because you are black" mentality. They were not insulted for "acting white" because they had high grades, and were succeeding.

So what can we do about that?

Well there are a couple of things we can do about that.

First, we need to stop rewarding failure. What does that mean? It means if you don't pass the test, you fail the grade, and are kicked out of school.

We are likely the only country in the world, that actually believes you are "entitled" to an education. No one else believes that. Most of Europe doesn't believe that, and certainly no Asian countries believe that.

You fail... you leave. That's how that works. You go home. Good luck. In fact, in many countries like Finland and Japan, if you do not pass the entrance exam for high school, you don't go to high school.

You start kicking the kids out of school, who don't put in the effort to be there... people will start putting in the effort to be there.

Second, you need to end welfare and food stamps. One of the reasons people believe they can coast through life, and do as little as possible, is because we pay them to not work. We need to end that.

Again, you don't see that in most of the world. Denmark, Sweden, and so on, they don't have welfare. You don't work, you don't eat. You starve.

And what will this do? It will force people to work, and advance themselves. And when they start seeing that they can advance themselves, they'll make better choices, and see a better future.

This one specifically, is the most obvious to me of any concept. Because how can you expect a child to come the conclusion that working hard, and getting an education is important, when their parents are being paid to sit on the butt, at home, and do nothing?

Same by the way is true in red states, in poverty ridden areas. Same exact problem.

Cancel the welfare and food stamps. Cut the Medicaid illegal drug market.

The reason they see no hope and no future, and stay in poverty, is because they can. You love on welfare and food stamps, and never leave your home town that is dead..... yeah.... the future will look hopeless to you.

That's why we need to cut those handouts.... which will force them to move to where the work is, and get a job. And when they do that, things will start to look better.

I'd rather have the problems associated with welfare than people dying in the streets because they couldn't cut it myself. That's just me.

Denmark doesn't have welfare. They don't have people dying in the streets.

In the 1990s, we cut welfare and food stamp roles by 3/4ths, and we didn't have people dying in the streets.

They got jobs, and worked. One of the reasons the 1990s economy was good.

Your system, has people dying in the streets. Because you put them in a hopeless situation, they turn to gangs and drugs, and they over dose and kill each other.

Welfare is in fact, killing people. Not me doing that. Your ideology that is killing people.

There's a reason why every section 8 housing, consistently, 100% of the time, results in high crime and murder, and drug use.

A number of sources on line I found in just a cursory search say the exact opposite is true:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2018-01-25/denmarks-social-policies-generally-remain-a-model-say-experts

What makes life so worth living in Denmark are the country's strong social policies, say experts. From cradle to grave, the Danish state knows how to help its people: maternity or paternity leave — parents can decide to split it up — is a full year. Nurseries and then schools are both guaranteed and paid for by the municipality. University education is tuition free and students can apply for living expenses. Families with children receive a generous allowance, regardless of income level. Even elderly care, such as senior centers, adapted transport and meals-on-wheels programs are paid for the by the state.

Sure, and there are tons on tons of sites that make the socialist claim. Ironically few, very few, that are actually from Denmark, or written by Danish citizens.

Contrary to popular belief, the grass isn't always greener outside your marriage, or outside your country.

Reuters | Breaking International News & Views

Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage.

uk.reuters.com

The reality is, the government is running out of money. They are cutting back all of their endless social spending... because there simply isn't the money for it.

All socialism seems great, while you are spending other people's money.... and then it sucks when the money runs out.

This is true all over Europe.

Moreover, you would be surprised how many Danish are living in the US. I have several Danish friends that live here in the US, and one of the primary reasons, is that living here, basically doubles your income.

You talk about how great all those social programs are, but when you earn $50,000 (equivalent) in Denmark, and come to the US and Earn $100,000.... you can afford an awful lot of child care for an additional $50,000 a year.

You might thing that's an exaggeration, but it's not. I know of an engineer that moved here from Denmark, and was shocked by the wages they were paying. Almost double. And unlike living in Denmark, you keep a much larger amount of the money.

Yeah, there are tons of social programs in Denmark.... and people live much more poorly, to pay for it.

Now I will say, and left-wingers always point this out "They love their system".

That's what they all say. All of them do.... even the ones that come to American, and don't want to go back.

It's one of the odd aspects of socialist ideology, that people who intentionally leave the left-wing system they created, still claim to like it, even if they won't go back to it.

I was talking with this one lady specifically who moved here from Sweden over 10 years ago.

She talked about how she thought the Swedish welfare system was better. So I asked her directly, why don't you move back to Sweden if it is so much better?

Her response was.... well because she'd lose more than half her income.

Everyone loves the government hand outs.... but everyone INCLUDING left-wingers, doesn't want the taxes.

Well... sorry but if you want government handouts, then the poor and middle class have to pay the taxes. That's how that works.

 

[DrLove]

Has the mayor figured out how to blame Trump yet ?

The number of empty rental apartments in Manhattan nearly tripled compared with last year, as more New Yorkers fled the city and prices declined.

There were more than 15,000 empty rental apartments in Manhattan in August, up from 5,600 a year ago, according to a report from Douglas Elliman and Miller Samuel. The inventory of empty units is the largest ever recorded since data started being collected 14 years ago, the report said.

Manhattan rental market plunges, leaving 15,000 empty apartments in August

Hopes for a rebound in the fall or the end of 2020 look increasingly unlikely. Although rental prices have come down, the discounts are not steep enough yet to lure new renters back to the city.

www.cnbc.com

Meh, not a big dealio Trumpling. There three MILLION apartments in NYC!

There were 2,581,170 apartments in New York City in 2008. With modest growth, I would guess the number is around 3M at this point in time.

 

[candycorn]

Has the mayor figured out how to blame Trump yet ?

The number of empty rental apartments in Manhattan nearly tripled compared with last year, as more New Yorkers fled the city and prices declined.

There were more than 15,000 empty rental apartments in Manhattan in August, up from 5,600 a year ago, according to a report from Douglas Elliman and Miller Samuel. The inventory of empty units is the largest ever recorded since data started being collected 14 years ago, the report said.

Manhattan rental market plunges, leaving 15,000 empty apartments in August

Hopes for a rebound in the fall or the end of 2020 look increasingly unlikely. Although rental prices have come down, the discounts are not steep enough yet to lure new renters back to the city.

www.cnbc.com

Some people in Manhattan can afford multiple houses. It's an unfamiliar concept for most red states....unless the houses have wheels.
When the city locks down, there is little reason to continue living there and paying rent on an apartment. Once it opens back up completely, the city will once again be the envy of every red state low-life.

You mistakenly think that most Red State residents want what New York City has, Candy. They don't. They like living where they do. You know what they don't like? When liberals from places like New York and California move to a Red State and set about trying to destroy their new homes like they did their old ones.

Sure they do. We need to enlighten them.

That kind of cracks me up a bit. I'm more than willing to argue the facts, or discuss the topic with you, and yet dozens of times you have resorted to nothing more than name calling.

Now you want to enlighten me? Your current claims, are contradicted by your prior actions.

Enlighten? Might be too punitive a word. How about expose or increase awareness.

It should crack you up that one doofus on a message board pretends to know what "most Red State residents" want.

I personally think that the revolving door of poverty in most red states is there for the same reason that there is a revolving door of poverty in the urban ghettos in blue states if you want to have a serious discussion about it. And that reason is (in part) that a white youth in Slidell LA and a Black Youth in South Central have the same outlook on life. It is the 20 square blocks around your house and little else. So you set your sights on what works for those 20 square blocks. You're not exposed to other ideas; you're not exposed to other cultures; you're not exposed to the possibilities that exist. You're beaten down by your surroundings before you have a chance. Large cities like NY, LA, Miami, Philly, Chicago offer that exposure. Politics has little to do with it. I certainly don't expect red state losers to understand that not everything has a political bend to it--it is true that I went for a cheap laugh at the OP's expense because he is the epitome of a red state loser who thinks 9/11, OKC, JFK, Covid are all massive conspiracies.

I would agree with that actually to some extent. But... it would seem as though your side... maybe not you personally, but your ideology, is what promotes such thing.

Even Thomas Sowell, to some extent, has researched and documented, pretty much what you just said.

He research black men and some women (of which there is a surprising number), who were stationed in Germany, and ended up marrying Germans and living in Germany.

Now Germany is far more "white" than America is. By wide margin too. To black kids growing up in Germany, there is no counter culture. There is no black culture. There is no black history month, nothing like any of that.

And what they find from these black kids growing up in an almost pure white culture is....... they do almost as well as any white German.

Why is that? No gangster rap. No defeatism. No "you can't succeed because you are black" mentality. They were not insulted for "acting white" because they had high grades, and were succeeding.

So what can we do about that?

Well there are a couple of things we can do about that.

First, we need to stop rewarding failure. What does that mean? It means if you don't pass the test, you fail the grade, and are kicked out of school.

We are likely the only country in the world, that actually believes you are "entitled" to an education. No one else believes that. Most of Europe doesn't believe that, and certainly no Asian countries believe that.

You fail... you leave. That's how that works. You go home. Good luck. In fact, in many countries like Finland and Japan, if you do not pass the entrance exam for high school, you don't go to high school.

You start kicking the kids out of school, who don't put in the effort to be there... people will start putting in the effort to be there.

Second, you need to end welfare and food stamps. One of the reasons people believe they can coast through life, and do as little as possible, is because we pay them to not work. We need to end that.

Again, you don't see that in most of the world. Denmark, Sweden, and so on, they don't have welfare. You don't work, you don't eat. You starve.

And what will this do? It will force people to work, and advance themselves. And when they start seeing that they can advance themselves, they'll make better choices, and see a better future.

This one specifically, is the most obvious to me of any concept. Because how can you expect a child to come the conclusion that working hard, and getting an education is important, when their parents are being paid to sit on the butt, at home, and do nothing?

Same by the way is true in red states, in poverty ridden areas. Same exact problem.

Cancel the welfare and food stamps. Cut the Medicaid illegal drug market.

The reason they see no hope and no future, and stay in poverty, is because they can. You love on welfare and food stamps, and never leave your home town that is dead..... yeah.... the future will look hopeless to you.

That's why we need to cut those handouts.... which will force them to move to where the work is, and get a job. And when they do that, things will start to look better.

I'd rather have the problems associated with welfare than people dying in the streets because they couldn't cut it myself. That's just me.

Denmark doesn't have welfare. They don't have people dying in the streets.

In the 1990s, we cut welfare and food stamp roles by 3/4ths, and we didn't have people dying in the streets.

They got jobs, and worked. One of the reasons the 1990s economy was good.

Your system, has people dying in the streets. Because you put them in a hopeless situation, they turn to gangs and drugs, and they over dose and kill each other.

Welfare is in fact, killing people. Not me doing that. Your ideology that is killing people.

There's a reason why every section 8 housing, consistently, 100% of the time, results in high crime and murder, and drug use.

A number of sources on line I found in just a cursory search say the exact opposite is true:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2018-01-25/denmarks-social-policies-generally-remain-a-model-say-experts

What makes life so worth living in Denmark are the country's strong social policies, say experts. From cradle to grave, the Danish state knows how to help its people: maternity or paternity leave — parents can decide to split it up — is a full year. Nurseries and then schools are both guaranteed and paid for by the municipality. University education is tuition free and students can apply for living expenses. Families with children receive a generous allowance, regardless of income level. Even elderly care, such as senior centers, adapted transport and meals-on-wheels programs are paid for the by the state.

Sure, and there are tons on tons of sites that make the socialist claim. Ironically few, very few, that are actually from Denmark, or written by Danish citizens.

Contrary to popular belief, the grass isn't always greener outside your marriage, or outside your country.

Reuters | Breaking International News & Views

Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage.

uk.reuters.com

The reality is, the government is running out of money. They are cutting back all of their endless social spending... because there simply isn't the money for it.

All socialism seems great, while you are spending other people's money.... and then it sucks when the money runs out.

This is true all over Europe.

Moreover, you would be surprised how many Danish are living in the US. I have several Danish friends that live here in the US, and one of the primary reasons, is that living here, basically doubles your income.

You talk about how great all those social programs are, but when you earn $50,000 (equivalent) in Denmark, and come to the US and Earn $100,000.... you can afford an awful lot of child care for an additional $50,000 a year.

You might thing that's an exaggeration, but it's not. I know of an engineer that moved here from Denmark, and was shocked by the wages they were paying. Almost double. And unlike living in Denmark, you keep a much larger amount of the money.

Yeah, there are tons of social programs in Denmark.... and people live much more poorly, to pay for it.

Now I will say, and left-wingers always point this out "They love their system".

That's what they all say. All of them do.... even the ones that come to American, and don't want to go back.

It's one of the odd aspects of socialist ideology, that people who intentionally leave the left-wing system they created, still claim to like it, even if they won't go back to it.

I was talking with this one lady specifically who moved here from Sweden over 10 years ago.

She talked about how she thought the Swedish welfare system was better. So I asked her directly, why don't you move back to Sweden if it is so much better?

Her response was.... well because she'd lose more than half her income.

Everyone loves the government hand outs.... but everyone INCLUDING left-wingers, doesn't want the taxes.

Well... sorry but if you want government handouts, then the poor and middle class have to pay the taxes. That's how that works.

So you stick by your "Denmark doesn't have welfare"? Or do you now say they have welfare but it ain't so great?

 

[Andylusion]

Has the mayor figured out how to blame Trump yet ?

The number of empty rental apartments in Manhattan nearly tripled compared with last year, as more New Yorkers fled the city and prices declined.

There were more than 15,000 empty rental apartments in Manhattan in August, up from 5,600 a year ago, according to a report from Douglas Elliman and Miller Samuel. The inventory of empty units is the largest ever recorded since data started being collected 14 years ago, the report said.

Manhattan rental market plunges, leaving 15,000 empty apartments in August

Hopes for a rebound in the fall or the end of 2020 look increasingly unlikely. Although rental prices have come down, the discounts are not steep enough yet to lure new renters back to the city.

www.cnbc.com

Some people in Manhattan can afford multiple houses. It's an unfamiliar concept for most red states....unless the houses have wheels.
When the city locks down, there is little reason to continue living there and paying rent on an apartment. Once it opens back up completely, the city will once again be the envy of every red state low-life.

You mistakenly think that most Red State residents want what New York City has, Candy. They don't. They like living where they do. You know what they don't like? When liberals from places like New York and California move to a Red State and set about trying to destroy their new homes like they did their old ones.

Sure they do. We need to enlighten them.

That kind of cracks me up a bit. I'm more than willing to argue the facts, or discuss the topic with you, and yet dozens of times you have resorted to nothing more than name calling.

Now you want to enlighten me? Your current claims, are contradicted by your prior actions.

Enlighten? Might be too punitive a word. How about expose or increase awareness.

It should crack you up that one doofus on a message board pretends to know what "most Red State residents" want.

I personally think that the revolving door of poverty in most red states is there for the same reason that there is a revolving door of poverty in the urban ghettos in blue states if you want to have a serious discussion about it. And that reason is (in part) that a white youth in Slidell LA and a Black Youth in South Central have the same outlook on life. It is the 20 square blocks around your house and little else. So you set your sights on what works for those 20 square blocks. You're not exposed to other ideas; you're not exposed to other cultures; you're not exposed to the possibilities that exist. You're beaten down by your surroundings before you have a chance. Large cities like NY, LA, Miami, Philly, Chicago offer that exposure. Politics has little to do with it. I certainly don't expect red state losers to understand that not everything has a political bend to it--it is true that I went for a cheap laugh at the OP's expense because he is the epitome of a red state loser who thinks 9/11, OKC, JFK, Covid are all massive conspiracies.

I would agree with that actually to some extent. But... it would seem as though your side... maybe not you personally, but your ideology, is what promotes such thing.

Even Thomas Sowell, to some extent, has researched and documented, pretty much what you just said.

He research black men and some women (of which there is a surprising number), who were stationed in Germany, and ended up marrying Germans and living in Germany.

Now Germany is far more "white" than America is. By wide margin too. To black kids growing up in Germany, there is no counter culture. There is no black culture. There is no black history month, nothing like any of that.

And what they find from these black kids growing up in an almost pure white culture is....... they do almost as well as any white German.

Why is that? No gangster rap. No defeatism. No "you can't succeed because you are black" mentality. They were not insulted for "acting white" because they had high grades, and were succeeding.

So what can we do about that?

Well there are a couple of things we can do about that.

First, we need to stop rewarding failure. What does that mean? It means if you don't pass the test, you fail the grade, and are kicked out of school.

We are likely the only country in the world, that actually believes you are "entitled" to an education. No one else believes that. Most of Europe doesn't believe that, and certainly no Asian countries believe that.

You fail... you leave. That's how that works. You go home. Good luck. In fact, in many countries like Finland and Japan, if you do not pass the entrance exam for high school, you don't go to high school.

You start kicking the kids out of school, who don't put in the effort to be there... people will start putting in the effort to be there.

Second, you need to end welfare and food stamps. One of the reasons people believe they can coast through life, and do as little as possible, is because we pay them to not work. We need to end that.

Again, you don't see that in most of the world. Denmark, Sweden, and so on, they don't have welfare. You don't work, you don't eat. You starve.

And what will this do? It will force people to work, and advance themselves. And when they start seeing that they can advance themselves, they'll make better choices, and see a better future.

This one specifically, is the most obvious to me of any concept. Because how can you expect a child to come the conclusion that working hard, and getting an education is important, when their parents are being paid to sit on the butt, at home, and do nothing?

Same by the way is true in red states, in poverty ridden areas. Same exact problem.

Cancel the welfare and food stamps. Cut the Medicaid illegal drug market.

The reason they see no hope and no future, and stay in poverty, is because they can. You love on welfare and food stamps, and never leave your home town that is dead..... yeah.... the future will look hopeless to you.

That's why we need to cut those handouts.... which will force them to move to where the work is, and get a job. And when they do that, things will start to look better.

I'd rather have the problems associated with welfare than people dying in the streets because they couldn't cut it myself. That's just me.

Denmark doesn't have welfare. They don't have people dying in the streets.

In the 1990s, we cut welfare and food stamp roles by 3/4ths, and we didn't have people dying in the streets.

They got jobs, and worked. One of the reasons the 1990s economy was good.

Your system, has people dying in the streets. Because you put them in a hopeless situation, they turn to gangs and drugs, and they over dose and kill each other.

Welfare is in fact, killing people. Not me doing that. Your ideology that is killing people.

There's a reason why every section 8 housing, consistently, 100% of the time, results in high crime and murder, and drug use.

A number of sources on line I found in just a cursory search say the exact opposite is true:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2018-01-25/denmarks-social-policies-generally-remain-a-model-say-experts

What makes life so worth living in Denmark are the country's strong social policies, say experts. From cradle to grave, the Danish state knows how to help its people: maternity or paternity leave — parents can decide to split it up — is a full year. Nurseries and then schools are both guaranteed and paid for by the municipality. University education is tuition free and students can apply for living expenses. Families with children receive a generous allowance, regardless of income level. Even elderly care, such as senior centers, adapted transport and meals-on-wheels programs are paid for the by the state.

Sure, and there are tons on tons of sites that make the socialist claim. Ironically few, very few, that are actually from Denmark, or written by Danish citizens.

Contrary to popular belief, the grass isn't always greener outside your marriage, or outside your country.

Reuters | Breaking International News & Views

Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage.

uk.reuters.com

The reality is, the government is running out of money. They are cutting back all of their endless social spending... because there simply isn't the money for it.

All socialism seems great, while you are spending other people's money.... and then it sucks when the money runs out.

This is true all over Europe.

Moreover, you would be surprised how many Danish are living in the US. I have several Danish friends that live here in the US, and one of the primary reasons, is that living here, basically doubles your income.

You talk about how great all those social programs are, but when you earn $50,000 (equivalent) in Denmark, and come to the US and Earn $100,000.... you can afford an awful lot of child care for an additional $50,000 a year.

You might thing that's an exaggeration, but it's not. I know of an engineer that moved here from Denmark, and was shocked by the wages they were paying. Almost double. And unlike living in Denmark, you keep a much larger amount of the money.

Yeah, there are tons of social programs in Denmark.... and people live much more poorly, to pay for it.

Now I will say, and left-wingers always point this out "They love their system".

That's what they all say. All of them do.... even the ones that come to American, and don't want to go back.

It's one of the odd aspects of socialist ideology, that people who intentionally leave the left-wing system they created, still claim to like it, even if they won't go back to it.

I was talking with this one lady specifically who moved here from Sweden over 10 years ago.

She talked about how she thought the Swedish welfare system was better. So I asked her directly, why don't you move back to Sweden if it is so much better?

Her response was.... well because she'd lose more than half her income.

Everyone loves the government hand outs.... but everyone INCLUDING left-wingers, doesn't want the taxes.

Well... sorry but if you want government handouts, then the poor and middle class have to pay the taxes. That's how that works.

So you stick by your "Denmark doesn't have welfare"? Or do you now say they have welfare but it ain't so great?

So, huge difference in definitions.

Denmark does not have "Welfare", like we have welfare. There is no you just get money, for doing nothing.

Yes you can get help if you worked. They have unemployment compensation. They have paid leave for being a parent.

But that involves you working. You don't work... you don't get unemployment compensation. You don't work, you don't get parental leave.

Denmark is very very much about you working for what you have. You don't get to live off the tax payers. You work, and pay tax, and you get back some of the money you yourself pay in taxes.

They have welfare only in the sense that the rich, the poor, the middle class, will all get back a fraction of the taxes they pay in social services.

But they do not have, by any stretch, the kind of welfare we are talking about here in the US. We have unemployment compensation here in the US.... right? Do you ever hear of anyone calling it "Welfare"?

That is my point. You are conflating the meanings of the word, which is used differently here, than there.

Unemployment compensation is not welfare. Denmark does not have welfare. You don't get a check for just existing and sucking oxygen.